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[Hydranockz]

Yeah, I mean, there was always the thing of "so many people bought the game, why are the playlists so empty". Lot's of people enjoy the campaign an awful lot. It's not my personal taste (in terms of playing through it once or twice) but I can see wwhy it is still popular.

Bungie at least laid a good foundation for enticing players to play both sections (MP and Campaign) by having challenges for Campaign as well. Pretty much the only reason I have played Campaign outside of the first fw weeks was so I could do some challenge or another. It'll be very curious to see how 343 can build on to that by maing both worlds more approachable. Spartan Ops might just be that key.

I believe the campaign is wholly irrelevant to the success of multiplayer shooter franchises (see: COD, Q3A, TF2, CS). If it was that important, the rerelease of the best Halo campaign ever a couple months ago would've sold more than 8 copies. And if multiplayer wasn't as important, why are they turning the game into COD? Just make a great Halo campaign, that's all they need.

Gotta love that hyperbole. Why not have both kyle? They have the resources

 

[Fuchsdh]

Do you have a source for that? The success of the Halo franchise hasn't relied on campaign since CE. Halo 2's campaign was atrocious, 3's terrible, and Reach awful, yet each was played by more people a year after release than any single player game (as per XBL activity lists). The long tail is what makes money. After you rope HBO kids into another Legendary Edition, you gotta start pumping out those map packs and selling Gold cards, it's the multiplayer activity that keeps the franchise relevant. I mean, how many people are playing ODST right now? How 'bout Anniversary? When's the last time you even thought about them?

343, reveal the Guardian remake in Halo 4 already so I can be excited about something please. Thank you in advance.



I don't know why you're complaining about International Interaction. I've been told by HaloGAF that this is one of the highlights of Halo's matchmaking system.

The issue with activity lists is thy only track XBL subs. In 2011 there were 30 mil Gold and Silver members for 53 mil Xbox consoles sold. In March 2012 there are 66 million consoles but only 20 million Gold members.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I'm going to completely disagree with you. To me, Halo is the story. Yeah, multiplayer is what keeps me playing and keeps me coming back, but the story and fiction surrounding the universe is what I come to see day 1.

I liked Reach's story quite a bit, despite it's difference from the books and more "low key" settings. Halo 1-3 were also decent, with 1 still being the best. I am actually really excited to see what a new team does with the story though, they could really fix the issues Bungie had and make something great.

Reading "Ghosts of Onyx" is getting me very excited for what 343 can do with Halo 4's story, and it's Spartan Ops mode. Some of the encounters in the books are awesome, and I only hope 343 can give the games that feel.

Hey, if you want to keep fighting 12 year-olds with controllers for another decade, feel free.

When you play a Halo game, the thing that interests you most going in is what they do with the story? I mean they're FPS games and those are almost universally terrible at handling storytelling. Think about Reach, what happens? Noble 6 joins Noble team, let's go fight some insurgents! "oh the covenant are on reach". Okay now people are dying left and right, okay go take this Cortana fragment to the PoA. Okay now everyone left on Reach is dead.

I don't mean to be reductive but that is pretty much the entirety of it. The comics, videos and books can make it a more interesting universe, but speaking as a person who has only played the games, this stuff is very barebones.

I believe the campaign is wholly irrelevant to the success of multiplayer shooter franchises (see: COD, Q3A, TF2, CS). If it was that important, the rerelease of the best Halo campaign ever a couple months ago would've sold more than 8 copies. And if multiplayer wasn't as important, why are they turning the game into COD? Just make a great Halo campaign, that's all they need.

But Kyle, if there was no campaign, there would be no Cortana.

 

[Overdoziz]

Halo 4 MP sounds terrible so the campaign is pretty much the only thing that looks interesting (aside from the QTEs).

 

[Garrett 2U]

Bungie at least laid a good foundation for enticing players to play both sections (MP and Campaign) by having challenges for Campaign as well. Pretty much the only reason I have played Campaign outside of the first fw weeks was so I could do some challenge or another. It'll be very curious to see how 343 can build on to that by maing both worlds more approachable. Spartan Ops might just be that key.

I think Spartan Ops is definitely the key.
Give me fun campaign/coop modes and I'll play the shit out of them.

The thing getting me down about H4 multiplayer is that all the new additions seem so gimmicky.
Halo multiplayer has been about originality, and I feel like that has gone completely out the window.
Either way I'm sure it'll be fun.. it just might be in the mind numbing COD sense of the word.
But we must hears and sees more!

 

[Hydranockz]

When you play a Halo game, the thing that interests you most going in is what they do with the story? I mean they're FPS games and those are almost universally terrible at handling storytelling. Think about Reach, what happens? Noble 6 joins Noble team, let's go fight some insurgents! "oh the covenant are on reach". Okay now people are dying left and right, okay go take this Cortana fragment to the PoA. Okay now everyone left on Reach is dead.

I don't mean to be reductive but that is pretty much the entirety of it. The comics, videos and books can make it a more interesting universe, but speaking as a person who has only played the games, this stuff is very barebones.

Bringing up Reach's campaign as the benchmark for FPS storytelling... really? Halo CE. There is your benchmark. Why not ODST? Cherrypicking Reach so you can say campaign is bad because FPS' can't tell stories is not really a solid argument.

Of course the other mediums can flesh it out more, but, those exist because of the first game. I think that is the most important thing.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I believe the campaign is wholly irrelevant to the success of multiplayer shooter franchises (see: COD, Q3A, TF2, CS). If it was that important, the rerelease of the best Halo campaign ever a couple months ago would've sold more than 8 copies. And if multiplayer wasn't as important, why are they turning the game into COD? Just make a great Halo campaign, that's all they need.

They aren't.

Also, if CoD and Halo were to axe the campaign I would almost guarantee a drastic dip in sales. Not to mention outcry based on paying $60 for a game with no single player.

The Halo fiction is what draws me to the game, if not for that the game ends up just being "Color 1" Guys versus "Color 2" Guys.

 

[daedalius]

Wow still talking about not having a campaign?

Guess I can safely not pay attention to halogaf for most of today.

Kylej leading the charge; I'm literally shocked. Literally.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I believe the campaign is wholly irrelevant to the success of multiplayer shooter franchises (see: COD, Q3A, TF2, CS).

You're the one saying the opposite.
Why so does every COD reveal start with the campaign? Why does 80% of the marketing focus on campaign?
Because people expect to get a game where they can blow through the campaign and have a great time once (or maybe twice at most) then switch to multiplayer for the bulk.

Remove the campaign and really damage your value proposition (and vice versa).
It's not an either or scenario.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Bringing up Reach's campaign as the benchmark for FPS storytelling... really? Halo CE. There is your benchmark. Why not ODST? Cherrypicking Reach so you can say campaign is bad because FPS' can't tell stories is not really a solid argument.

Of course the other mediums can flesh it out more, but, those exist because of the first game. I think that is the most important thing.

I never said campaigns were bad, so that actually wasn't my argument. （￣□￣；）

I mean, I can pick any of them, I think CE's was the best, but that was mostly because it was establishing everything. It was still pretty run of the mill. I just think that when you're designing them to kill things from point A to B that it kills a lot of the capability of having an engaging narrative.

Also to be clear I'm not attacking anyone who loves going into these for the story, but I think there are so many things in these games that end up being much better than the story that I wonder if anyone can go into it with the story being their top priority.

 

[Trey]

People like their campaigns.

Halo 2 and 3 had solid campaigns. Reach had good encounters.

Slacker is correct about CE's campaign, too. But it's still epic and still cherished by many, including me.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Slacker is correct about CE's campaign, too. But it's still epic and still cherished by many, including me.

Totally, easily my favourite campaign from a "pure" FPS. Silent Cartographer and AotCR are the levels I've replayed the most out of any FPS.

 

[feel]

Halo 4 MP sounds terrible so the campaign is pretty much the only thing that looks interesting (aside from the QTEs).

Yep.

Yesterday I was sharing the Halo 4 mp info (AAs, sprint, perks, bloom, etc.) with yet another group of people (who don't go to
forums or game news sites) on a xbl party who were expecting a complete return to form (supped up Halo 2/3 style gameplay) and the massive disappointment was palpable, I felt like I was telling people their pets just died. lol I have no clue how Halo 4 mp will turn out, but on paper it just seems so bad.

 

[The Librarian]

Campaign isn't going anywhere, so we may as well discuss how to improve them rather than arguing to get rid of them.

I really hope 343i looked to Halo 3 for the encounters, as they are the best in the series. You can totally see the evolution and the puzzle-like way of tackling enemies from the beach encounters in the respective games (The Silent Cartographer -> The Covenant).

 

[Hydranockz]

Yep.

Yesterday I was sharing the Halo 4 mp info (AAs, sprint, perks, bloom, etc.) with yet another group of people (who don't go to
forums or game news sites) on a xbl party who were expecting a complete return to form (supped up Halo 2/3 style gameplay) and the massive disappointment was palpable, I felt like I was telling people their pets just died. lol I have no clue how Halo 4 mp will turn out, but on paper it just seems so bad.

I can definitely agree that it is so hard to 'sell' as is. E3 can't come soon enough.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Campaign isn't going anywhere, so we may as well discuss how to improve them rather than arguing to get rid of them.

I really hope 343i looked to Halo 3 for the encounters, as they are the best in the series. You can totally see the evolution and the puzzle-like way of tackling enemies from the beach encounters in the respective games (The Silent Cartographer -> The Covenant).

I hope that 4 doesn't have any "setpiece" moments like Long Night of Solace. It's cool the first time you play through the game, but every subsequent playthrough is just 10 minutes of pure monotony using very basic mechanics exclusively for that section.

But I will say, playing a bit of Reach's campaign recently, it handles something brilliantly that other FPSes fuck up royally. There are a couple sections where you can just stick around and listen to some interactions between people and the Spartans, and if this was any other game you would be forced into listening to it to completion every time. This is terrible if you're replaying it solely to play an FPS. In Reach? I can just keep moving on ahead and the game will let me.

 

[Karl2177]

Learned the hard way that Reach considers Slayer Asymmetric, not Symmetric.

Didn't jonnyothan say that in the ForgeWorld group? At least, that's how I remember it. Also, I need to talk to you about one of my maps and working on improving it(namely spawns).

 

[The Librarian]

I hope that 4 doesn't have any "setpiece" moments like Long Night of Solace. It's cool the first time you play through the game, but every subsequent playthrough is just 10 minutes of pure monotony using very basic mechanics exclusively for that section.

I think that some of that has to do with the static nature of the combat surrounding the set piece. I always enjoy the combat around the Covenant Corvette more than the combat in front of Anchor 9.

 

[Trey]

Campaign isn't going anywhere, so we may as well discuss how to improve them rather than arguing to get rid of them.

I really hope 343i looked to Halo 3 for the encounters, as they are the best in the series. You can totally see the evolution and the puzzle-like way of tackling enemies from the beach encounters in the respective games (The Silent Cartographer -> The Covenant).

The vehicles encounters and large scale battles, definitely. Reach and CE dismantle the rest of the series in close quarters and interior combat design.

I hope that 4 doesn't have any "setpiece" moments like Long Night of Solace.

But I will say, playing a bit of Reach's campaign recently, it handles something brilliantly that other FPSes fuck up royally. There are a couple sections where you can just stick around and listen to some interactions between people and the Spartans, and if this was any other game you would be forced into listening to it to completion every time. This is terrible if you're replaying it solely to play an FPS. In Reach? I can just keep moving on ahead and the game will let me.

Slacker is on fire today. Hate when games make me listen to shit.

 

[kylej]

You're the one saying the opposite.
Why so does every COD reveal start with the campaign? Why does 80% of the marketing focus on campaign?
.

All the marketing I've seen of COD focuses on the multiplayer experience (ie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouf9RyA33A ). COD reveals starting with the campaign is carefully orchestrated to tantalize fans and also because of developer pride.

But I agree with Dax, it's more worthwhile to discuss how the campaign should be better than pray that it's cut, because that thing is going to be shoehorned in regardless.

First step on how to improve the campaign: throw out all existing enemy types. There's all this incredible space architecture and the ability for humans to (presumably?) travel intergalactically in Halo. Hell, Master Chief is floating around in space to a new location in the current fiction. Why on earth are we fighting grunts and hammer monkeys again. Give me something totally new, fresh, and alien. I want to be wowwed.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Wow still talking about not having a campaign?

Guess I can safely not pay attention to halogaf for most of today.

Kylej leading the charge; I'm literally shocked. Literally.

I've always thought Halo could be an MP only game. Think if all the time and resources that are used on something that most of us will only play once.

The MP is the meat of the game. It lasts for years, the campaign lasts what? a week?

 

[Trey]

All the marketing I've seen of COD focuses on the multiplayer experience (ie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouf9RyA33A ). COD reveals starting with the campaign is carefully orchestrated to tantalize fans and also because of developer pride.

But I agree with Dax, it's more worthwhile to discuss how the campaign should be better than pray that it's cut, because that thing is going to be shoehorned in regardless.

First step on how to improve the campaign: throw out all existing enemy types. There's all this incredible space architecture and the ability for humans to (presumably?) travel intergalactically in Halo. Hell, Master Chief is floating around in space to a new location in the current fiction. Why on earth are we fighting grunts and hammer monkeys again. Give me something totally new, fresh, and alien.

New enemy types on Requiem; reduced Covenant role; no Flood. 343 delivers. Believe.

The MP is the meat of the game. It lasts for years, the campaign lasts what? a week?

Nope.

The campaign is the heart of the game. It lasts for (variable amount of time); most people play MP what? A couple of matches? [citation needed]

I think you will find among the hardcore Halo community an equal amount of respect--at least--towards both components of the game.

Cut campagin probably means the game just comes out sooner. And less whole for 60 dollars, therefore DOA.

 

[Gazzawa]

New enemy types on Requiem; reduced Covenant role; no Flood. 343 delivers. Believe.

Moonjumps?

 

[Stinkles]

I believe the campaign is wholly irrelevant to the success of multiplayer shooter franchises (see: COD, Q3A, TF2, CS). If it was that important, the rerelease of the best Halo campaign ever a couple months ago would've sold more than 8 copies. And if multiplayer wasn't as important, why are they turning the game into COD? Just make a great Halo campaign, that's all they need.

Lol

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Do MP only games do well on consoles? I'm genuinely curious, as a retail package, they are usually looked at negatively.

I remember all the furore over shadowrun, although a lot of that was not helped by the fact it was an RPG turned FPS.

 

[kylej]

Lol

Now that I've got your attention, why was Squad Slayer cut?

 

[Trey]

Moonjumps?

Apparently. I dislike them. Why people want to lose directional control of their character for a longer period of time, while being more exposed, is beyond me.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Best Weekly? Best Weekly.

 

[Gazzawa]

Apparently. I dislike them. Why people want to lose directional control of their character for a longer period of time, while being more exposed, is beyond me.

Yeah but moonjumps go to 11....

 

[Overdoziz]

I want a game that only has Squad Slayer. Nothing else.

 

[kylej]

I want a game that only has Squad Slayer. Nothing else.

fascinating.

 

[Overdoziz]

fascinating.

Lol

 

[The Real Napsta]

New enemy types on Requiem; reduced Covenant role; no Flood. 343 delivers. Believe.



Nope.

The campaign is the heart of the game. It lasts for (variable amount of time); most people play MP what? A couple of matches? [citation needed]

I think you will find among the hardcore Halo community an equal amount of respect--at least--towards both components of the game.

Cut campagin probably means the game just comes out sooner. And less whole for 60 dollars, therefore DOA.

I'm not saying they should cut campaign, I'm just saying I wouldn't care if they did.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I've always thought Halo could be an MP only game. Think if all the time and resources that are used on something that most of us will only play once.

The MP is the meat of the game. It lasts for years, the campaign lasts what? a week?

You're delusional. If it were to only have MP it would be Dead in a heartbeat. Halo is so much more then it's multiplayer. There are lots of fans that never touch the MP and buy them just for the singleplayer. Yes the multiplayer is popular too but I bet you'd lose half if not more of your audience if you cut singleplayer. I have zero doubt on that.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Yep.

Yesterday I was sharing the Halo 4 mp info (AAs, sprint, perks, bloom, etc.) with yet another group of people (who don't go to
forums or game news sites) on a xbl party who were expecting a complete return to form (supped up Halo 2/3 style gameplay) and the massive disappointment was palpable, I felt like I was telling people their pets just died. lol I have no clue how Halo 4 mp will turn out, but on paper it just seems so bad.

I was afraid to tell my friend, who also doesn't read any forums, all the new Halo 4 news. But to my surprise, my more competitive friends actually liked the news of custom loadouts. He was happy he could always start with a BR. I didn't tell him about the weapon drops though, I didn't want to ruin the moment

 

[heckfu]

Now that I've got your attention, why was Squad Slayer cut?

hahaha, well done.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I was afraid to tell my friend, who also doesn't read any forums, all the new Halo 4 news. But to my surprise, my more competitive friends actually liked the news of custom loadouts. He was happy he could always start with a BR. I didn't tell him about the weapon drops though, I didn't want to ruin the moment

As long as I am reunited with my covenant carbine, I'm happy.

Maybe your friends reliased that once they unlock the weapon, they would never have to sit through another AR starting weapon game ever again, or maybe their wierd like you?

 

[The Librarian]

The vehicles encounters and large scale battles, definitely. Reach and CE dismantle the rest of the series in close quarters and interior combat design.

I disagree about CE. Because of my most recent play through of CE because of Anniversary, I've come to the conclusion that the interior combat in Halo CE is largely outdated. Speaking strictly of interior combat, the game is, at best, an average corridor shooter brought down by tight corridors that offer little in the way of variety across different runs of the campaign in the beginning and repetitive, Flood-infested monster closet corridors in the later levels. I cannot think of an interior encounter in CE that's as fun as the battle in the Mausoleum of the Arbiter in Halo 2. (I've said many times before that Halo 2 has better interior combat than Halo 1).

As for Reach, I think the best interior combat is found in New Alexandria, but whenever I play through Reach I never find myself getting too excited to fight any of those encounters as I do the Brute hallway in Crow's Nest. (You know an encounter is good when you get excited to play it). There's nothing particularly noteworthy about many of Reach's interior encounters. They're just there.

 

[The Real Napsta]

You're delusional. If it were to only have MP it would be Dead in a heartbeat. Halo is so much more then it's multiplayer. There are lots of fans that never touch the MP and buy them just for the singleplayer. Yes the multiplayer is popular too but I bet you'd lose half if not more of your audience if you cut singleplayer. I have zero doubt on that.

Again, not saying they should cut campaign, but they definitely could.

MP is what (the majority of) people play for years. Are you seriously telling me you'd be playing Reach campaign 2 years later if not for the challenges?

 

[Gazzawa]

As long as I am reunited with my covenant carbine, I'm happy.

Unh
Green gun.

 

[RebornYeti]

First step on how to improve the campaign: throw out all existing enemy types. There's all this incredible space architecture and the ability for humans to (presumably?) travel intergalactically in Halo. Hell, Master Chief is floating around in space to a new location in the current fiction. Why on earth are we fighting grunts and hammer monkeys again. Give me something totally new, fresh, and alien. I want to be wowwed.

...

Isn't that what we're getting? And Hammer Monkeys. :lol

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Unh
Green gun.

On Halo's tonight?

 

[Tha Robbertster]

As long as I am reunited with my covenant carbine, I'm happy.

Maybe your friends reliased that once they unlock the weapon, they would never have to sit through another AR starting weapon game ever again, or maybe their wierd like you?

Yeah, that was line of thought. That's also why I actually like the idea of loadouts too. As long as all the weapons and AA's are balanced that is.

 

[Overdoziz]

As long as I am reunited with my covenant carbine, I'm happy.

Maybe your friends reliased that once they unlock the weapon, they would never have to sit through another AR starting weapon game ever again, or maybe their wierd like you?

Remove AR from the game, everybody wins.

 

[Louis Wu]

With finals over, I'm starting up the stat collection again. Here's a random graph of Multi-Kill Retention Rate for 66 random HaloGaffers.

lol - so the average Halogaffer has one Killpocalypse?

That's WAAAAY above the average. (I can't get exact numbers; Bungie's final stats don't show Killpocalypse totals, and even the double-kill numbers have only two significant digits... but if percentages stay relatively constant, you'd expect about a million total Killpocalypses from 1.7 billion double kills, and there are many more than a million Reach players.)

 

[Gazzawa]

On Halo's tonight?

I think I can squeeze an an hour at some point.
Get battlefield 3 back. In a weeks time I want to be knee deep in a match of Operation metro getting more revives than kills!

 

[kylej]

...

Isn't that what we're getting? And Hammer Monkeys. :lol

Grunts have already been confirmed in Halo 4. Grunts. The moment I read that I almost trounced my computer.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I think I can squeeze an an hour at some point.
Get battlefield 3 back. In a weeks time I want to be knee deep in a match of Operation metro getting more revives than kills!

Make sure it's not too late god damnit!

 

[Hypertrooper]

Best Weekly? Best Weekly.

Moar credits please. I have to be fat until Halo 4.

 

[RebornYeti]

Grunts have already been confirmed in Halo 4. Grunts. The moment I read that I almost trounced my computer.

Haha, well at least they're not the main enemy.