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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation

xxjuicesxx said:
LoL, Fyrewulf.


Points 1 2 and 3 are completely wrong.

Think of point 2. Low commitment...

I have never been ranked because of the amount of games required per month. While numbers are a gradual progressive rank that was kept through time, meaning it was much less of a commitment.

I could go on but for fucks sake bring back 1-50, Arena was so fail.

I like Fyrewulff, hes a cool guy, but I totally disagree with him on pretty much everything when it comes to competitive Halo. As much as I like him hes almost like a spin doctor, hes the same guy who posted a analysis on how Bloom has always existed in Halo whilst keeping quiet about the fact that it only occurs in circumstances where players hold down the trigger (who the hell would do that while trying to be deadly accurate!??)

I would love to write a counter essay point by point, but really if The Arena "Blows the previous style of ranking games in the Halo series out of the water." Why is it so underpopulated to the point where even Bungie realise they need to go back?

Sure it killed the Black Market, but in my opinion thats partially only because no one cares about having a Onyx on Reach lol. As for The Arena being 'low commitment, clear, and to the point.' Is he crazy!?? The commitment and obscurity are 2 of the bigger complaints with it!

The CR system promotes much worse play than the ranking system ever did... the afking is a lot more apparent now than it ever was on Halo 3.

Im too braindead right now to read his entire post, but skipping to his conclusion "People will always complain that the last way was better" - I think player population proves that what was done in the past was actually better. They weren't perfect, but they weren't as bad as he makes out in comparison to the Arena.

It is impossible to be carried to a high rating by boosting

Participation and only participation gets you a high rating for the game. If you just AFK and your team wins 50 games in a row, you're still going to end up in the lowest percentile of the lowest division.

Skim reading through his post I have to say that if anyone did this in Halo 3 I would give them all my money, hes acting like everyone boosted a 50 lol.
 

O D I N

Member
GhaleonEB said:
If anyone wants to do the weekly Challenge after customs tonight, my daughter and I should be free to run through ONI with anyone. We'll need to carry her a bit, but she's a decent campaign player and will hang back on the non-vehicle parts. So four would be ideal, but just one other player and we shouldn't have too much of a problem.


I still need this too, but don't have time tonight (if I'm on for customs, it's only gonna be for an hour or two, I work tomorrow morning (up at 6am @_@)). If you don't finish it tonight, perhaps I could help out/get a group going tomorrow?
 

Blueblur1

Member
thumblg.png


This is awesome.

More here.
 

KevinRo

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Pretty good write-up on the Halo ranking system.

Check it out

haha he used my word "donged" :D

Still, Reach's system is designed to show how much you've dedicated to the game. Arena shows what you did against people for 3 weeks with radar on. WHOOP DEE DOO.

I would very much like clan games back with division, kind of like SC2.

Only a certain percentage of the population is in Onyx and changes constantly over time based upon population and participation. A volatile permanent ranking system is what Reach needed.
 
If there's space in tonight's customs, I'll try and join you all. I've been playing Killzone 3 and Dragon Quest VIII so I may be a little bit rusty however.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
LoL, Fyrewulf.


Points 1 2 and 3 are completely wrong.

Think of point 2. Low commitment...

I have never been ranked because of the amount of games required per month. While numbers are a gradual progressive rank that was kept through time, meaning it was much less of a commitment.

I could go on but for fucks sake bring back 1-50, Arena was so fail.
I disagree with everyone one of his (her?) points. Though it's funny about it blowing TrueSkill out of the water when it leverages TrueSkill fully for matching.
 
Blueblur1 said:
thumblg.png


This is awesome.

More here.
I'll stick to my Noble Six armor, cost me 400 space dollars. BUT IT WAS WORTH IT, DAMMIT.


Hitmonchan107 said:
Console or PC version? I put so many hours into that game. I get chills every time the theme song comes on.

And the new version for Skyrim is even better.
PC version, though I hooked up my laptop to my HDTV. I ordered the Xbox version from Amazon.co.uk today (not the GotY edition, though, as that one's going for €100 and more, which is insane), as I've never really "owned" it. The PC version I'm playing right now I borrowed from a friend.

As for Skyrim: I've been devouring every bit of information and lore I've come across lately. Haven't you seen me geeking around in the trailer topic yet? :p
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
HaloGAF Customs starting in 30 mins (aprox.)

Junior members particularly welcome, regular members are encouraged to come beat up the new kids.

GAFCUSTOMSFEB.jpg


Devin Olsen said:
Pretty good write-up on the Halo ranking system.

Check it out


I posted a response.

Me said:
I think you argument ignores one very major element - player interest. Whilst the Arena combined with Reach's use of Trueskill and player progression system are indeed elegant and finely tuned and have deftly killed off the "black market" in the shady modding scene, it's been a complete failure for one simple reason. No one cares.
The Arena is but a shadow of the ranked playlists of previous Halo games. It is consistently under populated and nobody uses the Arena placement as a measurement of skill, despite how accurately it can judge you.

With the previous systems in Halo 2 and 3 it took week and months for player to find their ideal rank in a particular playlist. Afterwards they were pretty much locked in. Whilst this was a the cause of frustration for many players to be stuck at a certain rank, and contributed heavily to the demand of the back market, it was also a very fulfilling system in terms of making the player work hard and having something to show for it. A person's rank in a particular playlist was a badge of honour or shame.

The Arena's system of resetting rankings every month (or every three months in future) just annoyed players. Work your way to a Gold or Onyx rank, then it gets wiped, then work your way back again next month. Then next month again. And again. And again and so on. Most people simply said stuff it and didn't bother. Additionally, with previous Halo games you could chip away and work your rank with each game, whether it be days apart or months apart. In the Arena you have to play so many games per day, play for so many days per month and then you get get rated and ranked. The requirements are far too strict and the average player simply cannot be dictated to about he or she can play. If a person comes home from work and spends some free time player Reach, jumps into the Arena, they'll see a list of playing times and requirements and say stuff it and jump into BTB, MLG or any other playlist.

With the 1-50 system, it was easy to compare yourself to other players. I'm a 38, he is a 45, so he'll probably beat me. We have a team of Lieutenants against a team of Generals - they are probably going to win. With the Arena you are placed into, what, for our five categories and then told about a certain upper or lower percentile compared with the total amount of players that got ranked within that specific timeframe or something, I think. It's a confusing mess for the average player to work out and it's hard to measure and to compare players at a glance.

We should go back to the 1-50 system. Not completely mind you, but there so much functionality lost that I think it's needed (we have only a single "ranked" playlist and we cannot have ranked objectives? Feck that!) but we need a 1-50 system that also embraces long term investment so that it doesn't fall foul to the Halo 3 era black market. Halo 3 system was good for it's time and we had to move on but I think Reach's approach, like many of Reach's mechanics, simply didn't work. Players vote with their time and investment and it's obvious with the Arena that the players abandoned it quickly. The Arena is not the way forward but there are valuable lessons to be learned and I think maybe a hybrid of the two systems would be ideal but that kind of discussion is out of the remit of this reply.

TDLR

Arena has failed, we need the 1-50 system back without the black market elements and with the player investment from Reach.

Tashi0106 said:
Have customs started? Who's on? Where's the party at? Invite me or something

Half an hour from now.

Im_So_Pringles said:
Is a mic required for Halogaf customs? My wireless mic is out of commission right now, and I would probably have to dig to find my wired one.....

Mic preferred. We're a rowdy bunch.
 
Gotcha Dani. Already found my wired mic. Turns out I didn't have to go on quite the Minecraft-esque expedition I was expecting.

Edit: Gonna' grab a bite to eat from the local burger joint and then I'll be on!
 

O D I N

Member
Dani said:
HaloGAF Customs starting in 30 mins (aprox.)

Junior members particularly welcome, regular members are encouraged to come beat up the new kids.

Half an hour from now.

Mic preferred. We're a rowdy bunch.


If all goes according to plan, I should be home right when this starts, and the wife said she was at the inlaws. So I should be on.

I am prepared to die... A lot... >.>
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I'll be a half-hour late to customs. I was working on a treat (stove top caramel corn) with a rather imprecise recipe, something along the lines of cook until its done. I cooked until it was just scorched. Take two will take 30 minutes.
 
Wish I could prove my worth in customs tonight, but I already had real-world plans... meh.

At least I got the weekly done today, that was fun!
 
Blue Ninja said:
As for Skyrim: I've been devouring every bit of information and lore I've come across lately. Haven't you seen me geeking around in the trailer topic yet? :p

I'm afraid of going to other official community threads. I've been stalking HaloGAF so I know where my boundaries are. But I'll go over and give it a looksie.

I'm getting online now! woot woot!
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Arena is the way it is because it's its own playlist. FFA and Team Slayer? In the previous games the ranking system went across multiple playlists so it's not like people had to actually do anything to get ranked.
 
Whoever's making the Halo marketplace gear now knows what we like. Fingers crossed for Forerunner armor, despite that making no sense at all.
i want a halo as a giant hula-hoop




















or my own anti-son-of-a-bitch machine
 
Hitmonchan107 said:
I'm afraid of going to other official community threads. I've been stalking HaloGAF so I know where my boundaries are. But I'll go over and give it a looksie
There are no boundaries. GO FORTH, AND REPRESENT!
 
MrBig said:
So I made this guy, if anyone wants it feel free.
brvar.jpg


please devin, that thing is scaring me
lol alllright I'll switch it. It was a throwback to Halo 1 days.

Also - Actually read Fyrewulfs post.

Kids crazy.

He brought up some good points in regards to the boosting/cheating however the rest of what he said is silly. He essentially drug out all of the negatives and then touted Reach as being a perfect beast. I whole heartedly disagree. As others have noted Bungie themselves have admitted the flaws in the Arena style ranking system... And now instead of modders/cheaters we are stuck with afk'ers, which is almost worse in some ways.

I am unfortunately not smart enough to dream up a perfect ranking system. I will however say that what Reach is using still has a long ways to go.
 

Willeth

Member
Devin Olsen said:
lol alllright I'll switch it. It was a throwback to Halo 1 days.

Also - Actually read Fyrewulfs post.

Kids crazy.

He brought up some good points in regards to the boosting/cheating however the rest of what he said is silly. He essentially drug out all of the negatives and then touted Reach as being a perfect beast. I whole heartedly disagree. As others have noted Bungie themselves have admitted the flaws in the Arena style ranking system... And now instead of modders/cheaters we are stuck with afk'ers, which is almost worse in some ways.

I am unfortunately not smart enough to dream up a perfect ranking system. I will however say that what Reach is using still has a long ways to go.
I agree that the Arena has flaws, but the idea behind it is far better than what we had in 3. A rank as a goal and a rank to make fair matches need to be separated. People will game the system either way, but at least in Reach they aren't gaming the system to the detriment of both matchmaking and the integrity of the earned ranks, they're only devaluing earned ranks.

It's still a problem, yes. But it affects far fewer people. Work needs to be done to remove the people who fuck the system up, but it's still a massive improvement over what we had. We no longer have people starting new accounts and filling the lower-ranked games with people of wildly different skill, which in turn, adjusts people higher up who are only mediocre against people who are legitimately higher-ranked, and so forth. It doesn't just screw up matchmaking for the top and bottom end - it fucks with the entire range of people. This is no longer the case.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Devin Olsen said:
AR start on some disgusting wide open map with kids who don't have mics?

It's a wild ride. I wish I could be there.
No. DMR starts but maps are too big, framerate drops are too plentiful and spawn are too shitty.
 
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