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[Kralamoonard]

Hey everyone!

So I was thinking about this the other day, how a huge sales juggernaut like GT can be swept under the rug so easily.

I'm not that knowledgable when it comes to GT so the experts can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that it really started with GT6 being released exclusively on the PS3 after the PS4 came out - not even a PS4 port was seen in sight.

But despite that, it still sold relatively well, especially when compared to franchises that have so much more money/marketing poured into them.

And now we come to GT Sport which it seems Sony has dropped the ball again (at least in terms of visible marketing, dedicated time in conferences and certain features being barebones -- this what I gathered anyway from the numerous GT threads e.g. no dynamic weather, primarily an online focus, cut back SP etc.

Even at the PS Asia conference there wasn't any significant marketing nor at TGS where they could have at least showed off the weather.

It's just baffling and mind-boggling to me that such a huge franchise with such a big pull and guaranteed commercial success even on a bad entry could be treated this poorly.

I understand the racing market has changed, especially in the US, but still, if feels GT could have maintained its popularity, at least if Sony were just a little less careless with their management of it.

What do you guys think?

 

[Rellik]

I think we should wait for GT Sport to actually be released and see how it sells first.

 

[Coxy100]

Sort of yes. It’s one of the few things Microsoft does better - consistently good forza games are released on a consistent basis. Gran turismo takes forever in comparison.

 

[Toe-Knee]

I've seen a fair few gt sport adverts on Facebook /YouTube the last week or so.

 

[Kralamoonard]

I think we should wait for GT Sport to actually be released and see how it sells first.

I see what you mean, but do you not see anything significant, for better or worse, in the marketing or features of GT Sport?

I'd be interested in a different, more positive perspective since it does seem doom and gloom all the time lol.

 

[Hayama Akito]

I don't know if "mismanaged" is the word, but franchises like Forza taught us that is not necessary to wait 5 years for a great racing game.

 

[GlamFM]

I think they have mismanaged Kazunori Yamauchi.

Letting him do whatever the fuck he wants because GT sells is probably gonna bite them in the ass at some point.

The competition got a lot of time to not only catch up, but in some aspects surpass GT.

GT does not exist in a vacuum anymore - something Sony and Kazunori seem to forget.

IMO the series went downhill after 3 A-Spec. (Which is probably the greatest racing game of all time)

 

[kadotsu]

GT6 not being on PS4 at launch is the only clear point of mismanagement I can point to. My personal opinion of PD being the most dedicated studio in providing a boring and sterile product on the planet, has nothing to do with the actual reception of their titles.

 

[gogogow]

I think they have mismanaged Kazunori Yamauchi.

Letting him do whatever the fuck he wants because GT sells is probably gonna bite them in the ass at some point.

The competition got a lot of time to not only catch up, but in some aspects surpass GT.

GT does not exist in a vacuum anymore - something Sony and Kazunori seem to forget.

IMO the series went downhill after 3 A-Spec. (Which is probably the greatest racing game of all time)

The suits don't care, they only care about sales and money and PD delivered on that front for 20 years and most of the entries are great games. Of course it's a different story for gamers and racing fans.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Don't think so. We've seen most of what the game has to offer. They'll be a trailer or two next month with an obvious ramp up in marketing. Expecting GTSport billboards at champions league matches.

 

[Kralamoonard]

The suits don't care, they only care about sales and money and PD delivered on that front for 20 years and most of the entries are great games. Of course it's a different story for gamers and racing fans.

But don't you think they're doing even more damage now for the franchise with the way they've been marketing GTS and GT6 not being in PS4? Surely if they cared about sales they could have been less short sighted about this, no?

Don't think so. We've seen most of what the game has to offer. They'll be a trailer or two next month with an obvious ramp up in marketing. Expecting GTSport billboards at champions league matches.

How about it's diminished prescence in conferences? Do you think that's anything significant or will not matter in the grand scheme of things?

 

[GHG]

They mismanaged Kaz.

Too much freedom and minimal pressure rarely results in anything positive when you're dealing with a perfectionist. I'm not saying they should have given him no freedom and put a lot of pressure on him, because that doesn't work either in the creative industry... But it needed to at least be one or the other.

There is no reason GT6 shouldn't have been cross gen if you believe the bullshit Kaz fed us about the engine for that game being made with the PS4 in mind.

 

[KHlover]

GT6 should have been Cross-Gen and GT Sports should be called GT7. GT Sports just sounds like a spinoff, while it actually seems to be the next mainline game (according to people in the last GT thread I visited, who follow that game more closely than me).

 

[anddo0]

Yes.

-GT6 should've been on Ps4
-They give PD too much leeway. The content they produce doesn't add up. Especially when their competitors pump out 2 or 3 game's in the same span it takes PD to make one. I'm all for perfection, but it doesn't add up.

I love PD, Gran Turismo is my racer of choice. But they live and operate in a bubble.

 

[Kikujiro]

The suits don't care, they only care about sales and money and PD delivered on that front for 20 years and most of the entries are great games. Of course it's a different story for gamers and racing fans.

They'll care when GT Sport sell less than GT6.

They definitely mismanaged Yamauchi's "perfectionism".

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Sony seems to let their devs do whatever the fuck they want. This has hurt gt, but it also gave a lot of good things.
Polyphony definitely needs some curation. Forza team is definitely outdoing them currently.
You could argue about the work that gt games need but ultimately the forza guys are repeatedly delivering good games while polyphony hasn't impressed since gt5.

 

[Theonik]

GT6 should have been Cross-Gen and GT Sports should be called GT7. GT Sports just sounds like a spinoff, while it actually seems to be the next mainline game (according to people in the last GT thread I visited, who follow that game more closely than me).

Sport IS a spin-off, or rather a reboot. They are removing the traditional GT game and replacing it with eSports stuff and the online content from GT5/6.

GT6 should have been crossgen though, but I suspect it was a pretty cheap/small project using the working they did while supporting Gt5.

 

[Kolibri]

GT's biggest problem is Kazunori Yamauchi.

I've never sen a series creator so out of touch with it's fanbase. He's like the George Lucas of gaming.

 

[magawolaz]

There will be a TGS showcase in two days: http://gematsu.com/2017/09/tokyo-game-show-2017-live-stream-schedule#sie (scroll)

They are pretty active on social media, I see posts on twitter/instagram multiple times a week. I'm sure the closer we'll get to release, the more they'll push it.

But I do agree there's still some stuff they haven't shown, mostly lobby settings, community features (I hope they are bringing back and improving the Club creator from GT6), etc...
Weird because it should go Gold any day now.

 

[FeD.nL]

But don't you think they're doing even more damage now for the franchise with the way they've been marketing GTS and GT6 not being in PS4? Surely if they cared about sales they could have been less short sighted about this, no?



How about it's diminished prescence in conferences? Do you think that's anything significant or will not matter in the grand scheme of things?

I don’t think the diminished presence in conferences means much. They know how to reach the target audience and I don’t think a lot of time in a conference is gonna bring in a lot of new sales.

Like they have been targetting a very specific group by promoting the game around racing events. Like the last F1 race in Singapore you had Carlos Sainz doing a few laps in GTS. I think you could get more potential sales from racing enthusiasts than from the average gaming enthusiast that watches the big conferences

 

[Theonik]

GT's biggest problem is Kazunori Yamauchi.

I've never sen a series creator so out of touch with it's fanbase. He's like the George Lucas of gaming.

You don't consistently sell over 8m copies by being out of touch with your fanbase.

 

[gogogow]

But don't you think they're doing even more damage now for the franchise with the way they've been marketing GTS and GT6 not being in PS4? Surely if they cared about sales they could have been less short sighted about this, no?

I've made posts about GT6 port to PS4 in the past, how it should've been a cross platform game.
And i'm not gonna buy GTS and might not ever get it. I don't care about online racing and the SP content is not what I want. I want a career mode with tons of cups, basically everything I/we've been used to from any of the main GT entry.

So it's not like I don't agree with the gamers side. But the suits do what the suits do. If this bombs, I bet we will see GT7 relatively soon.

 

[Snubbers]

The suits don't care, they only care about sales and money and PD delivered on that front for 20 years and most of the entries are great games. Of course it's a different story for gamers and racing fans.

I always felt they should care because whilst it still makes healthy money it really could have made a boatload more..

That is all based on notions that GT6 releasing on both PS3 and PS4 would have sold a lot more.

And that GT Sport is a strange departure from the core game, mixing drop dead gorgeous photo mode with no career, almost like it doesn't know it's market, hardcore sim racers that want to drool over car-porn seems a little more niche than I'd expect.

 

[JackAubrey]

They really needed to get GT launches in sync with hardware launches.

GT6 should have been on PS4. It's ridiculous it wasn't. And while the game continue to be full of innovative and interesting little features - such as changing colours on cars in video - the core experience is mismanaged. For me the series hit a peak at GT3 and his been in decline since then.

I wish there was a stronger focus on performance. Turn10's refusal to compromise on 60fps has been the strongest element of the Forza series. Whereas GT has been blighted in recent interactions with choppy frame rates and tearing.

And graphic qualities have suffered because the focus seems on making wonderful screenshots. For sharing in forum threads GT games are the most beautiful. But when actually playing? Nah.

All the lovely photo modes in the world don't make up for poor frame rate and tearing.

 

[Acquiescence]

Gran Turismo 5 ended up selling a lot better than most people remember or give it credit for. GT6 saw a big decline in sales for reasons that are obvious to everyone. I think the answer is to just wait and see how Sport fares. This time it won't have the excuse of being a title released too late in the gen to fall back on if it sees a similar slump.

 

[nature boy]

Yes, Forza came and IMO outperformed GT.

Not everyone is on Yamauchi's schedule.

 

[faridmon]

The suits don't care, they only care about sales and money and PD delivered on that front for 20 years and most of the entries are great games. Of course it's a different story for gamers and racing fans.

Oh they cared alright when GT6 sold like shit and GTS' hype looks almost nonexistant

You don't consistently sell over 8m copies by being out of touch with your fanbase.

Hence the George Lucas Comparison...

 

[MadMod]

I think PD has been given too much time. I think they might be spending too much time on things that dont matter as much, therefore slowing their production down. This causes them to focus on different things, instead of polishing up the main parts of the game. Want to point towards those awful game menus too.

Lets wait until GT Sport to fully judge.

 

[tsounaiq]

Sony does not really have a mature management system on game development IMO. It takes almost like forever for games such as the Last Guardian, GT to be finished.

 

[Kolibri]

You don't consistently sell over 8m copies by being out of touch with your fanbase.

 

[sibarraz]

Is GT in a bad position? I remember that GT5 sold incredibely well, dont know how GT6 did, but I recall that it didnt had that much critical acclaim

 

[Phoenix RISING]

GT's biggest problem is Kazunori Yamauchi.

I've never sen a series creator so out of touch with it's fanbase. He's like the George Lucas of gaming.

Better to be a George Lucas than a Akira Toriyama.

 

[JackAubrey]

Yes the games still sell in big numbers. But why should we care? Surely the games being better should be more important than Sony's accounting.

 

[MadMod]

Sony does not really have a mature management system on game development IMO. It takes almost like forever for games such as the Last Guardian, GT to be finished.

Naughty Dog? Consistently high quality games every 2/3 years.

 

[Theonik]

I don't see how Apple is an example of the contrary. It just means that you're out of touch with Apple's customers.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I don't understand how we can have like 5 Forza games before 1 gt game.

And the new Forza game will probably score better than gt anyways, lol.

 

[LukasTaves]

I don't know how anyone can say they are not mismanaged since at least last gen.

From being completely outmatched by the competition, to taking so long to release a game to the point one mainline entry got thrown under the bus by releasing on a dying console.

Even if individually the games still sell around the same, the simple fact that they are releasing them farther apart and not always with the best timing means they make less revenue over a timespan, so even in that metric they are not managing the franchise well enough.

 

[xrnzaaas]

There will be a TGS showcase in two days: http://gematsu.com/2017/09/tokyo-game-show-2017-live-stream-schedule#sie (scroll)

They are pretty active on social media, I see posts on twitter/instagram multiple times a week. I'm sure the closer we'll get to release, the more they'll push it.

But I do agree there's still some stuff they haven't shown, mostly lobby settings, community features (I hope they are bringing back and improving the Club creator from GT6), etc...
Weird because it should go Gold any day now.

Have they shown weather yet?

Sony definitely left PD too much breathing room. I mean they got almost 4 years and the feature list for Sport is lackluster. But we'll see when it hit the stores if the majority thinks the same way and if things will really need to change in the studio.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

GT Sport is coming 4 years after the launch of the PS4 and it's a spinoff that doesn't actually offer what a lot of GT fans actually enjoy about the franchise. So at current pace we could end the generation with Sony having no major Gran Turismo game while Microsoft have a minimum of 3 mainline Forza and 2 spinoffs.

What I don't grasp is how the signs that Polyphony weren't up to snuff was evident as far back as GT5, yet nothing was done. They put out 2 games still reusing PS2 era models and made big claims about going to obsessive lengths to get every detail flawless on a handful of premium cars, meanwhile every car model in Turn 10's games were either just as, or more detailed. I don't enjoy the Forza games, or Project Cars, or Assetto Corsa, and PGR is dead so it pains me to see GT in this state.

 

[Zafir]

I think we should wait for the game to actually be released before we come to a conclusion.

I will say I'm really not that bothered about GT Sport. It's coming out during such a busy time game wise that I think I'll probably just wait for a sale.

 

[Jawmuncher]

They’re not the only game in town now and the length they take to make isn’t even worth it at this point.

 

[KORNdoggy]

the only mistake sony themselves made regarding GT is not porting GT6 to PS4. i mean, it still has sold more than any competing racer, but it could have sold practically double if it was ported, i have no doubts about that.

as for missteps within the series itself, like standard cars being mixed with premium ones. long dev cycles. inconsistencies with weather/time of day, and just random modes that serve no purpose other then some self masturbatory conquest (moon rover mission anyone?), i think that's squarely on polyphony and Kazunori.

honestly i think sport is looking like the most pure, non convoluted and focused entry in the series for a long ass time. people just gotta get over the fact it's predominantly online. whether they do or not, i have no doubt in mind that it'll still be the most popular racer between it, forza and project cars...it always is.

 

[Primethius]

Yes, they let Kaz get away with too much.

I'd be surprised if GTS sells around GT5 levels rather than GT6 levels.

 

[Kolibri]

I don't see how Apple is an example of the contrary. It just means that you're out of touch with Apple's customers.

Some fanbases will purchase something in spite of it's glaring flaws (Apple effect)

Every time a new GT releases, forums are full of fans doing nothing but complaining about how important features are missing.

Then the next one releases and they do the same thing.... Rinse.... Repeat.....

 

[GlamFM]

I don't see how Apple is an example of the contrary. It just means that you're out of touch with Apple's customers.

Yep. Apple customers consistently get what they want.

Last time they finally removed the headphone jack.

 

[JackAubrey]

Yes, they let Kaz get away with too much.

I'd be surprised if GTS sells around GT5 levels rather than GT6 levels.

I reckon it'll still sell by the bucketload. But it might be the most traded in GT so far. A lot of regular gamers (folks who don't visit forums etc.) are going to be a bit shocked by the game's focus.

 

[Forearm Star]

I'd say so.

As someone whose not much of a fan of racing games, seeing 4+ versions of their competitors product out and available in comparison is always mind blowing.

How do the current GT games rate in comparison? Are the games about the same or is GT far and away a better product?

http://thebrainfever.com/images/apple-logos/Silhouette.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

I'd argue they're doing a great job cartering to their fan base. It's everyone else that knows they are out of touch.

 

[mike4001_]

You don't consistently sell over 8m copies by being out of touch with your fanbase.

Consider this.

Would please really care about GT: Sport if it hadn't the GT name?

You get an online-only racer with a limited amount of track and cars.

 

[IISANDERII]

I see what you mean, but do you not see anything significant, for better or worse, in the marketing or features of GT Sport?

I'd be interested in a different, more positive perspective since it does seem doom and gloom all the time lol.

Some people are complaining that the traditional campaign mode is giving way to the online racing. To me, this is awesome because the campaign mode has always been little more than a dull grind vs the braindead AI. The most fun I had in Gran Turismo on PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 was racing against my own lap times.

Racing against online opponents was often times absolutely incredible in GT5/6 and the online modes in those games were pretty barebones so I cannot wait to see GT Sports and a more expanded online experience.

 

[gogogow]

Oh they cared alright when GT6 sold like shit and GTS' hype looks almost nonexistant


.

Doesn't seem like GT6 performance had any impact at all. I mean, nothing has changed at PD since then, so.......