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[No Means Nomad]

TF2 not balanced? Play decent players and you'll see that:

1. All good players play Soldier, Demo, or Scout. These classes require decent movement skills and aim, while having good utility against almost every other class.
2. Pyro, Spies, and Engineers don't get played on decent teams. These classes work well on large games with bad people, where setting up an ambush is easy, as no one communicates. In a competitive team, all of these classes are countered by decent communication.

On anything bigger than a ten man team classes like spies and snipers are not only incredibly helpful but are next to necessary. Snipers really help control large areas and can push people to take certain paths. The thing is, classes like snipers and spies take a lot more skill than say a Heavy, because of the nature of their play, so it's easy to find a lot of one's that end up being ineffective for their team on low-skill servers.

Engineers may not always have the highest score, but they're an essential part of teams as a lockdown on areas, and are especially important for a defense. Without Engineers captures for the other team become cakewalks.

Pyros are one of the more situational classes. They definitely need to set up the opponent or get the drop on them. I've seen some really good ones, and they're the best class for a lot of smaller areas, but their place is once again defensively, where they can get the enemy to come to them rather than having to venture out into the open to get blown up. Offensively, pyros lend themselves well to breaking through certain areas very well, and if the defense has a compact area where they're holding the offense back the pyro is the best class by far to get the job done.

So really, now we've listed every class as being viable. And I'm not sure where this was headed to start with.

3. Every good team runs the same core strategy, one medic latched onto a Soldier and a second Solider or a Heavy, sometimes in non-crit games. This pack roams the middle of the map, pushing only once the Demo/Scouts have cleared ahead and the enemy has at least one person waiting to respawn.

I'm not even sure what this means. Yes, it's common for a team to wait to roll directly into a cap point with an uber, but there are general areas nearby that usually hold the battle. Nobody "roams" around the middle of the map, and a good defense won't let the offense move around like that.

I also don't know what good a scout would do in terms of cleaning house at a cap point. They're the most vulnerable class to sentries due to their low health and the need for a close, direct attack to do any real damage. Heavies, demomen, pyros, spies, and soliders all are well suited for pushing a point, especially with a medic in tow.

4. Crits eliminate a significant portion of the limited amounts of skill the game has. Since every player has a high base chance to crit, regardless of performance, claiming it's fair and balanced, especially for competitive play, is not true. Losing a fight because you played better, but the other guy lucked out, is anything but balanced. There's a reason why most European servers and all competitive leagues play with crits off.

While I agree that crits can take away some of the skill of the game, they make it more fun. They help matches from dragging on, and the game seems balanced around them occuring every once in awhile. It's kind of weird, but I like that a shot will explode a group of four people bunched together every once in awhile. What I think makes it at least fair is that they have the same opportunity to get a critical strike on my team. Most crit shots beyond a shotgun blast are avoidable for two reasons. The first being the visual style of TF2 giving you very obvious indicators that another players bullets are critical and the other being that in TF2 I feel like you almost always have the oppertunity to retreat in a situation that looks bad for you. If you find yourself under Heavy crit fire it's usually possible to just take cover or run for it. While Team Fortress 2 creates the allowance to take fire, your best bet is to usually avoid it and try to keep your health maxed out.

5. Ubercharge is bad. Almost impossible to interrupt and takes very little skill to build up, especially now with the Ubersaw. It's cute that Valve wanted your girlfriend to have a class she could play while she's watching Sex in the City, but seriously... invulnerability was unfun in multiplayer in 1996.

Any girlfriend who can actually get an ubersaw is pretty fucking tops man.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Fall is just nuts. What's the litmus test for if a game is balanced? Is the better team/player gonna win? Yes. A good team will wipe the floor with a team that's inferior. Every game.

And the whole "competitive" thing is perverted anyway. Who even wants to play "competitively"? Especially with the whole set of rules that completely changes/breaks the game. Yes, let's make it 6v6 with severe class limitations and then bitch how all it's depth gets stripped away.

 

[Icy]

Fall is just nuts. What's the litmus test for if a game is balanced? Is the better team/player gonna win? Yes. A good team will wipe the floor with a team that's inferior. Every game.

And the whole "competitive" thing is perverted anyway. Who even wants to play "competitively"? Especially with the whole set of rules that completely changes/breaks the game. Yes, let's make it 6v6 with severe class limitations and then bitch how all it's depth gets stripped away.

Agreed. Why havent I seen Fall on my server? Oh thats right.. My wife's ubersaw scares you. :lol

 

[DyTonic]

I have a question about snipers...

Do you guys use high mouse sensitivity settings?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

A good team will wipe the floor with a team that's inferior. Every game.

Which is why TF2 fails. Just a slight imbalance on the teams and the game is clearly decided. The game is way too team oriented to be much fun on a bad team.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Yeah, how dare Team Fortress 2 have a strong emphasis on Teamwork.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Yeah, how dare Team Fortress 2 have a strong emphasis on Teamwork.

I haven't played any other game that punishes you so immensely for teammates being bad. Or rewards you otherwise.

 

[Crushed]

I haven't played any other game that punishes you so immensely for teammates being bad. Or rewards you otherwise.

Yeah stupid TEAM Fortress 2 being all about TEAMS.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Wait are people complaining now because team fortress 2 is team based? What?

 

[Icy]

Wait are people complaining now because team fortress 2 is team based? What?

No Just 1... Son of Godzilla.. he was probably 1 of the 10 ppl the other day on my server on dustbowl for 30 minutes and no one ever touched the CP once. They were too busy DMing and complaining the DM sucks in TF2..

 

[No Means Nomad]

No Just 1... Son of Godzilla.. he was probably 1 of the 10 ppl the other day on my server on dustbowl for 30 minutes and no one ever touched the CP once. They were too busy DMing and complaining the DM sucks in TF2..

Wow, somehow you manage to bring up your server like fifty times in every thread that might so much as utter Team Fortress.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Which is why TF2 fails. Just a slight imbalance on the teams and the game is clearly decided. The game is way too team oriented to be much fun on a bad team.

Dumbest post ever.

 

[JasonUresti]

Yeah, if your goal in TEAM Fortress 2 is to run around and get as many kills as you can while ignoring objectives and your team mates call for aid, I can see how you'd get bored or feel its unbalanced and not have a good time.

I also see how a person so focused on getting 1vs1 kills would only see worth in the scout and soldier classes.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

So instead of saying how I'm wrong you fucktards highlight the word team and call it a day. Yes, I'm aware of the name of the fucking game. It's the follow up to a game, a game which also had the word team in it, that - and note this, this is the important part - *didn't* put the linchpin of whether or not you are having fun on how retarded the rest of the people playing are.

How someone can say that the game doesn't encourage competitive play is beyond me, as playing on public servers the game fucking sucks.

 

[thestopsign]

I'm just going to get the achievements over the course of the next year, it feels more satisfying that way.

 

[Fall]

Placing a strong emphasis on teamwork is different than negating the importance of individual skill.

Saying "It's TEAM Fortress" is a statement reserved only for the worst gamers, who can't understand why the Medic or Heavy is an unskilled class, or how Crits tend not to promote skilled play. Teamwork is great, but if it's forced, it eliminates a lot of the creativity that make other, less team-centric games fun.

Games like Counter-Strike place a strong emphasis on teamwork, but allow for an individual to have a major influence over the outcome of a game. One good sniper can completely destroy another good team. One smart rusher can completely shut down a strategy. One good flash can decimate a defense.

TF2 on the other hand prevents an individual from carrying their team, and normalizes the effects of any single action or player, requiring teamwork, instead of promoting it. Want to break through a couple defenders? Better bring some friends and hope for a few crits, because you won't be getting past them unless they are awful.

I'm sure pubbers will cry foul at this, but remember, you are probably bad at the game. Of course you will see exceptions to these statements, as most of the people you play against are awful. I'm sure you've seen a Pyro score #1, just as you've seen a Demoman not score a single point. TF2 holds up fine at the bottom, it falls apart at the top.

TF2 is definitely not suitable for competitive play. There's a reason why TF2 is dead in online leagues and LAN tournaments, as the game just isn't tuned for skilled play. It's a pub game, and pub games should have unbalanced features and newbie-friendly options that let everyone blow people up, regardless of skill or functioning brain cells. It makes for fun pub play with friends, but doesn't hold up once you look closely at it or get good enough.

Competitive play is a lot of fun, and anyone hating on that clearly has never tried it, most likely because they are bad at games. TF2 is probably a bad place to start playing competitively, as there's a far smaller gap between the good and the bad, not to mention an anemic community, and no support from Valve.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Placing a strong emphasis on teamwork is different than negating the importance of individual skill.

Games like Counter-Strike place a strong emphasis on teamwork, but allow for an individual to have a major influence over the outcome of a game. One good sniper can completely destroy another good team. One smart rusher can completely shut down a strategy. One good flash can decimate a defense.

TF2 on the other hand prevent an individual from carrying their team, and normalizes the effects of any single action, requiring teamwork, instead of promoting it. Want to break through a couple defenders? Better bring some friends and hope for a few crits."


One extraordinary person *shouldn't* carry an entire team. Help? Or even severely tip the scale in their favor, sure. You act as if there aren't situations where this occurs in TF2, which definitely isn't the case, even in a competitive sense.



"I agree, my arguments are a bit pointless, as they apply to competitive gaming, something TF2 is definitely not suitable for. There's a reason why TF2 is dead in online leagues and LAN tournaments, as the game just isn't tuned for skilled play. It's a pub game, and pub games should have unbalanced features and newbie-friendly options that let everyone blow people up, regardless of skill or functioning brain cells."


Er, every moderately "large" online league I know (especially in europe) has either disabled crits or will in the next season. You've noted this yourself, so why bring it up from a competitive standpoint? The main reason TF2 is shriveling is because of the 6v6/8v8 divide as well as disagreements on class limits. All that shit about "not tuned for skilled gameplay" is a bunch of garbage.


That said, I'm not sure why I'm defending TF2, I hate it.

 

[Bogus]

Placing a strong emphasis on teamwork is different than negating the importance of individual skill.

Games like Counter-Strike place a strong emphasis on teamwork, but allow for an individual to have a major influence over the outcome of a game. One good sniper can completely destroy another good team. One smart rusher can completely shut down a strategy. One good flash can decimate a defense.

TF2 on the other hand prevents an individual from carrying their team, and normalizes the effects of any single action or player, requiring teamwork, instead of promoting it. Want to break through a couple defenders? Better bring some friends and hope for a few crits, because you won't be getting past them unless they are awful.

So, in a nutshell, a game isn't suited for competitive team play when it forces players to play as a team?

 

[Fall]

Really? CEVO has lost the majority of its teams, CAL is DOA, and no major LAN is picking it up.

I might be misinformed, having only played in CEVO, and placing second at PDXLan and winning InfernaLAN twice the past year.

6v6 or 8v8 was never an argument that the majority of players cared about. It took way too long to get crits removed, the biggest reason most decent gamers abandoned it a while ago, and bad scoring systems and no match support scared off quite a few more.

The few who stick around might bicker about 6v6 or 8v8, but who cares? Larger teams are never better for competition, so anyone arguing for them is clearly not a competitive play, and thus a sure sign the community is dead.

Europe was ahead of the game. If US shut down crits earlier TF2 might still have some of a community. A large group will leave regardless, as the core strategies are still pretty shallow (medic + 2 soldiers roam middle, 2 scouts hit and run), but at least the folks who didn't mind the forced teamwork would still hang around.

So, in a nutshell, a game isn't suited for competitive team play when it forces players to play as a team?

Yep, pretty much. Good combat and movement skills should be able to carry most teams to victory, with teamwork only required against equally skilled opponents. Coordinated rushes and medic turtling will beat out even the most accurate Sniper or Soldier who doesn't have a handful of people at his back.

Teamwork is great, but ensuring failure if your team is not working with you is disappointing, especially for a game intended for public server play.

 

[Crushed]

guys i was playing football the other day and my team lost because they sucked but i did good and i didn't get any points wtf this game suxxxxx

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I might be misinformed, having only played in CEVO, and placing second at PDXLan and winning InfernaLAN twice the past year."


Your gaming credentials aren't worth squat here, save them.


"Really? CEVO has lost the majority of its teams, CAL is DOA, and no major LAN is picking it up."

I'm pretty sure I already acknowledged TF2's competitive scene dwindling. Lemme check...yep, sure did.


"6v6 or 8v8 was never an argument that the majority of players cared about. It took way too long to get crits removed, the biggest reason most decent gamers abandoned it a while ago, and bad scoring systems and no match support scared off quite a few more."


When half the community interested in competition is split between playing 6v6 with class limits and the other half playing 8v8 with no class limits, it may not be an argument people cared about, but it mattered. Even if they're all scrubby terrible teams, combined, there's more interest and competition at the low end eventually breeds more players for the high end.


"The few who stick around might bicker about 6v6 or 8v8, but who cares? Larger teams are never better for competition, so anyone arguing for them is clearly not a competitive play, and thus a sure sign the community is dead."

See above.


"Europe was ahead of the game. If US shut down crits earlier TF2 might still have some of a community. A large group will leave regardless, as the core strategies are still pretty shallow (medic + 2 soldiers roam middle, 2 scouts hit and run)"

Inarguable.


"Teamwork is great, but ensuring failure if your team is not working with you is disappointing, especially for a game intended for public server play."

This line of thinking only gels wannabe all star dudes, thinking that their E-highlight reels are important. TF2 has a lot of flaws. A lot. A bunch. Strong team emphasis isn't one of them.

 

[PillowKnight]

Really? CEVO has lost the majority of its teams, CAL is DOA, and no major LAN is picking it up.

I might be misinformed, having only played in CEVO, and placing second at PDXLan and winning InfernaLAN twice the past year.

6v6 or 8v8 was never an argument that the majority of players cared about. It took way too long to get crits removed, the biggest reason most decent gamers abandoned it a while ago, and bad scoring systems and no match support scared off quite a few more.

The few who stick around might bicker about 6v6 or 8v8, but who cares? Larger teams are never better for competition, so anyone arguing for them is clearly not a competitive play, and thus a sure sign the community is dead.

Europe was ahead of the game. If US shut down crits earlier TF2 might still have some of a community. A large group will leave regardless, as the core strategies are still pretty shallow (medic + 2 soldiers roam middle, 2 scouts hit and run), but at least the folks who didn't mind the forced teamwork would still hang around.

Is that fact? The main thing that turned me off of TF2 competitive play were the small teams and the harsh class restrictions, they pretty much took all the fun out of the game.

 

[Crushed]

Is that fact? The main thing that turned me off of TF2 competitive play were the small teams and the harsh class restrictions, they pretty much took all the fun out of the game.

Then you clearly aren't a competitive player, because only people who agree with competitive players are competitive players.

 

[MedievalManIII]

Placing a strong emphasis on teamwork is different than negating the importance of individual skill.

Communist-Age: I see that you don't like Valve's newly found communist ideals. Go back to your pig-dog capitalism where the bourgeoisie rule over the proletariat. TF2 is truly a Marxist utopia where the proletariat have the power.

 

[Sciz]

I'm starting to understand what the people who advocate items in SSB feel like.

 

[Won]

Then you clearly aren't a competitive player, because only people who agree with competitive players are competitive players.

He plays on public servers, so he probably sucks anyway.

 

[Slavik81]

I see you haven't played WoW PvP have you?

WoW PVP's rather flawed. Don't even bother with the battlegrounds if you're not at the highest level you can be for them. And the teams are usually stacked.

 

[ShowDog]

I was never into competitive play, but I strongly preferred TFC to TF2. TF2 is fun but feels slower paced and less exciting overall. I'm not sure why, but I think it's that the level designs feel cramped compared to the ones in TFC. My old favorite level, Well, is a shadow of its former self in TF2. I'd still play TFC if there were any public servers that weren't just full of horrible bots.

 

[Davidion]

Oh look, muppets who've played TF2 for five minutes and decided that they know everything there is to know about the game. :lol

Yes, all pub servers suck, because you've played on all, or even most of them. Yes, any game that doesn't work well by your ridiculously myopic definition of "competitive gaming" naturally sucks for everyone. Yes, a few good players NEVER led a team to victory in TF2, and the games are ALWAYS decided by the least common denominators. Yes! A game that emphasizes different classes, the various strengths and weaknesses between them and how they work against and with each other, SHOULDN'T FOCUS ON FUCKING TEAM WORK!

Sure, you can like or not like the game, but you fluffballs, please stop trying to sound intelligent and reinforce it with some half-assed pseudo "analysis" of how well the game does or does not function, lest you want your nonsensical judgment picked apart and laughed out, AGAIN.

I was never into competitive play, but I strongly preferred TFC to TF2. TF2 is fun but feels slower paced and less exciting overall. I'm not sure why, but I think it's that the level designs feel cramped compared to the ones in TFC. My old favorite level, Well, is a shadow of its former self in TF2. I'd still play TFC if there were any public servers that weren't just full of horrible bots.

Well, there's always http://www.fortress-forever.com/

 

[iamblades]

Is that fact? The main thing that turned me off of TF2 competitive play were the small teams and the harsh class restrictions, they pretty much took all the fun out of the game.

^^

its like saying basketball is more competition friendly than football or baseball because it has less players per team.

It's BS.

There is nothing that is preventing 12v12 or 16v16 from working in competition it just makes it much harder and more expensive to organize the league that way, so most have smaller teams.

To take a game thats balanced around these larger games and play in small games then whine about it being unbalanced is a bit silly. It's like saying football is a crappy game for competition because the QB is overpowered in 5 on 5 flag football. The leagues should design themselves around the games, not expect the games to conform to their arbitrary limitations.

 

[Twig]

^^its like saying basketball is more competition friendly than football or baseball because it has less players per team.

It's BS.

Yeah, but basketball is not football is not baseball...

Team Fortress 2 is... you guessed it! Team Fortress 2.

Analogy fails.

 

[Fallout-NL]

cl_allowdownload 0
cl_downloadfilter "nosounds"

Oooh, that's great thanks.

 

[Icy]

cl_allowdownload 0
cl_downloadfilter "nosounds"

bad idea. Around 60% of servers run server mods that have sounds, Most servers use 1 of 2 addons and both use pretty much the same sound files. Reason I say bad idea, is your client will still go through the process of attempting to download but refuse and it slows your loading up.

You also will not be able to hear any custom sounds/events from some custom maps such as rock2 and you will not be able to view other players sprays. As they are sometimes quite entertaining. Just my thought.

 

[Dina]

^^

its like saying basketball is more competition friendly than football or baseball because it has less players per team.

It's BS.

Basketbal has fewer players because the pitch is smaller.

Anyway, this weekend I gave TF2 a second chance. I tried it when it came out and didn't like it all that much compared to TFC. Basically, I went into it with a competitive mindset and I missed the grenades so much.

Last weekend, I went into it with a casual/public play in mind (I basically quit competitive play some time ago). I really liked it a lot more. I know the maps, obviously, but skillwise there's a lot of room. That said, I don't think TF2 is bollocks in publics. Or not yet, anyhow. I rotate between a soldier and a demoman and basically had a blast over the weekend. Tempting to start in full force again.

 

[Firestorm]

What the hell Fall? You're arguing in circles with regards to the whole "it's too team based and therefore isn't fit for competitive play" crap. One dominant player SHOULDN'T carry the entire team.

Also, I'm a fairly competitive gamer by nature with a competitive mindset, but I always thought TF2 would benefit from more than 6 players on at once. 8 players seems much more reasonable for the game.

 

[legend166]

I think they made it a bit annoying. I've never cared for achievements, ever. Now, to get these new weapons, I have to run around and perform completely retarded and irrelevant to the game tasks? Screw that.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I think they made it a bit annoying. I've never cared for achievements, ever. Now, to get these new weapons, I have to run around and perform completely retarded and irrelevant to the game tasks? Screw that.

In all fairness, most of the achievements are obtainable by playing as a good medic, its only the 'assist another medic in getting kills / kill certain classes with specific weapons / play with x numbers of people on your friendlist' ones that aren't.

Also, people complaining about the Pyro - Pyro is hands down the single best counter to Spy there is. It's also one of the best classes to mimic as a spy.

 

[VaLiancY]

Pertaining to the unlockables, This is a testbed for the unlockables and Valve said they'll have other ways for unlocking future weapons. Which is promising since someone of the achievements are outrageous but funny in a comedic way(Triage).

On the teamwork issue, this is one of the reasons why I love TF2. I feel like I'm being challenged when I'm playing as a Soldier or Pyro to see how I can improve myself and be a great assistance to the team. Kill a scout who poses no threat or the enemy Medic who yells "I'm charged!"?

 

[ethic]

the pyro's voice is so cute when it's all muffled.

Mmmmfmfm Mfmmfmmf! MMmff? Mmfmfmfmm!!!!

 

[Hitokage]

Placing a strong emphasis on teamwork is different than negating the importance of individual skill.

Saying "It's TEAM Fortress" is a statement reserved only for the worst gamers, who can't understand why the Medic or Heavy is an unskilled class, or how Crits tend not to promote skilled play. Teamwork is great, but if it's forced, it eliminates a lot of the creativity that make other, less team-centric games fun.

Games like Counter-Strike place a strong emphasis on teamwork, but allow for an individual to have a major influence over the outcome of a game. One good sniper can completely destroy another good team. One smart rusher can completely shut down a strategy. One good flash can decimate a defense.

TF2 on the other hand prevents an individual from carrying their team, and normalizes the effects of any single action or player, requiring teamwork, instead of promoting it. Want to break through a couple defenders? Better bring some friends and hope for a few crits, because you won't be getting past them unless they are awful.

I'm sure pubbers will cry foul at this, but remember, you are probably bad at the game. Of course you will see exceptions to these statements, as most of the people you play against are awful. I'm sure you've seen a Pyro score #1, just as you've seen a Demoman not score a single point. TF2 holds up fine at the bottom, it falls apart at the top.

TF2 is definitely not suitable for competitive play. There's a reason why TF2 is dead in online leagues and LAN tournaments, as the game just isn't tuned for skilled play. It's a pub game, and pub games should have unbalanced features and newbie-friendly options that let everyone blow people up, regardless of skill or functioning brain cells. It makes for fun pub play with friends, but doesn't hold up once you look closely at it or get good enough.

Competitive play is a lot of fun, and anyone hating on that clearly has never tried it, most likely because they are bad at games. TF2 is probably a bad place to start playing competitively, as there's a far smaller gap between the good and the bad, not to mention an anemic community, and no support from Valve.

It's kinda funny seeing you be so condescending when your argument boils down to not being able to get by without strategy and coordination, because all you have is good aim.

Playing intelligently shouldn't be underrated, even in CS, as it'll get you far even without the aimbot.

 

[spineduke]

Anyway, this weekend I gave TF2 a second chance. I tried it when it came out and didn't like it all that much compared to TFC. Basically, I went into it with a competitive mindset and I missed the grenades so much.

Probably one of the reasons I enjoy TF2 immensly. Grenade spam can really shit up a game. DoD, COD(2 and 4) and TFC are all guilty of this.




I agree that TF2 isn't geared at all towards competitive play, but that got me thinking..surely vanilla COD4 isn't being played competitively? Sorry to derail btw.

 

[Dina]

Probably one of the reasons I enjoy TF2 immensly. Grenade spam can really shit up a game. DoD, COD(2 and 4) and TFC are all guilty of this.

It's something I used to miss, but once you get settled into TF2 you don't miss it anymore. The game was made without grenades in mind and it shows.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

So instead of saying how I'm wrong you fucktards highlight the word team and call it a day. Yes, I'm aware of the name of the fucking game. It's the follow up to a game, a game which also had the word team in it, that - and note this, this is the important part - *didn't* put the linchpin of whether or not you are having fun on how retarded the rest of the people playing are.

How someone can say that the game doesn't encourage competitive play is beyond me, as playing on public servers the game fucking sucks.

So where was I wrong? The fact that some of you people can't see this is bizarre. TF2 goes well out of it's way to ensure that if your team lacks in certain areas then your play time will be miserable. This is far different than ensuring that you will lose. If your snipers suck, congrats playing as a medic will be a horid experience. If your team can't destroy SGs, congrats being a scout is worthless. Those are two incredibly obvious examples that spring to mind, where your personal enjoyment is dependent on your teammates not sucking. There are certainly others, to other degrees. Like the retardedly small ammo supply making dispensers necessary, which leads to depending on your team knowing how to spy/medic check, and on and on.

That's on top of the bizarre "rolling advantage" thing Valve came up with wherein the winning team finds it easier and easier to continue dominating. Something Valve has readily admitted to developing on purpose. Combine that with how common it is to have imbalanced teams, how necessary some hard counters are, and how meaningless personal skill is and holy hell public servers are infuriating sometimes.

But yes, the real question I'm asking is how the hell is using the word fuck several times after three nimrods ignore any criticism of their sacred cow and call me a score whore retard who (loloLOLoliolalolo) doesn't see the word TEAM in TF2 is a bannable offense.

 

[Crushed]

If your snipers suck, congrats playing as a medic will be a horid experience. If your team can't destroy SGs, congrats being a scout is worthless. Those are two incredibly obvious examples that spring to mind, where your personal enjoyment is dependent on your teammates not sucking.

PROBLEM: those are both totally false and lies.

 

[Odrion]

My biggest complaint about TF2 (which is still pretty small considering how much I love it) is that it's rare to have a honest to goodness drawn out deadlock. It's either we're trampling their team or they're trampling ours.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

That's on top of the bizarre "rolling advantage" thing Valve came up with wherein the winning team finds it easier and easier to continue dominating. Something Valve has readily admitted to developing on purpose. Combine that with how common it is to have imbalanced teams, how necessary some hard counters are, and how meaningless personal skill is and holy hell public servers are infuriating sometimes.

I have been in plenty of games where one Soldier or Heavy carries the entire team to a win. You're wrong on this.

 

[aznpxdd]

A skilled Heavy with medic maybe, but the other team must really suck if a mere Soldier dominated them.

 

[Sciz]

If you're using the phrase "mere soldier", I can only assume you haven't been on the wrong end of a rampaging Pillowknight.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

A skilled Heavy with medic maybe, but the other team must really suck if a mere Soldier dominated them.

Or the Soldier is really good.

 

[PillowKnight]

So where was I wrong? The fact that some of you people can't see this is bizarre.

That's exactly what we're saying about you. In simplest terms : The fact that TF2 is a team game means that you need to rely on your team. If your team sucks, help them out, teach em a bit. If your team is full of dipshits or assholes, switch servers.

TF2 goes well out of it's way to ensure that if your team lacks in certain areas then your play time will be miserable. This is far different than ensuring that you will lose. If your snipers suck, congrats playing as a medic will be a horid experience. If your team can't destroy SGs, congrats being a scout is worthless. Those are two incredibly obvious examples that spring to mind, where your personal enjoyment is dependent on your teammates not sucking. There are certainly others, to other degrees. Like the retardedly small ammo supply making dispensers necessary, which leads to depending on your team knowing how to spy/medic check, and on and on.

This would be a huge issue if you were ever locked into a certain class. That sentry pissing you off? Switch to soldier and take it out. Not only that, every class in the game can take down a sentry, yes, even medics.

That's on top of the bizarre "rolling advantage" thing Valve came up with wherein the winning team finds it easier and easier to continue dominating. Something Valve has readily admitted to developing on purpose. Combine that with how common it is to have imbalanced teams, how necessary some hard counters are, and how meaningless personal skill is and holy hell public servers are infuriating sometimes.

The rolling advantage only takes place during each match, it works well to make sure matches don't continue in a never ending death lock. The fact that most matches take 5-10 minutes means that the next round you and your team can start a new. Personal skill is not meaningless, it's common for one person to carry team in pubs.

But yes, the real question I'm asking is how the hell is using the word fuck several times after three nimrods ignore any criticism of their sacred cow and call me a score whore retard who (loloLOLoliolalolo) doesn't see the word TEAM in TF2 is a bannable offense.

You were being extremely dense, almost to the point of being a troll. How is it hard to understand that team game is based around team gameplay?

Hey, wtf, mere soldier? And thanks sciz.

Hey Dina, nice to know you're liking the game. You should play with us sometimes, i'd like to see a pro player in action.