metareferential
Member
It's technology.
And besides, you can perfectly enjoy everything on your old tv. Just don't be jealous or mad that things evolve beyond your purchases.
Or you're still playing ps360?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HDR comparison shots
- Thread starter DOT DASH DOT
- Start date
It's technology.
And besides, you can perfectly enjoy everything on your old tv. Just don't be jealous or mad that things evolve beyond your purchases.
Or you're still playing ps360?
Totally agree. Yes the difference between non-hdr and hdr are massive already, but neither brightness, color reproduction, lag and compatibility (hdr10 vs Dolby Vision) is where it can be in regards to the BT.2020 specification. Till that time I'll be watching a well calibrated 1080p screen.
NeoRaider
Member
It's doing it wrong then.
I had a chance to see it in the store. But not side by side comparison with non HDR enabled TV.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Sadly this is pointless since 99.9% of people will being viewing all HDR v SDR shots on SDR displays & even DSLR camera's can not capture the dynamic range of HDR if anything it ends up hurting HDR since people think it's not impressive.
HDR has to be end to end through the whole process chain.
Ultra high end Capture > HDR Editing Suites that create the HDR metadata > HDR Display that meets the requirements and processes the dynamic range with very little ramp up near the high end spectrum of the displays max light output.
If you want to see what HDR can do you need to go watch a demo of it in a proper setting.
HDR has to be end to end through the whole process chain.
Ultra high end Capture > HDR Editing Suites that create the HDR metadata > HDR Display that meets the requirements and processes the dynamic range with very little ramp up near the high end spectrum of the displays max light output.
If you want to see what HDR can do you need to go watch a demo of it in a proper setting.
It's a single image split down the middle.
These comparisons will just add to the confusion. The only way to see the difference is to see an actual HDR display.
And yes, the difference is MASSIVE. Anyone claiming otherwise, claiming oversaturation etc. hasn't seen it.
It's not your fault honestly, it's not been easy for anyone to explain this. The best way for you to see the difference would be to switch between HDR content and no on your own with the same/similar target settings.
NeoRaider
Member
Yes i did, i already answered that question and it looked oversaturated to me compared to standard HD TVs. But maybe it's just me.
I hate oversaturated colors, specially in games.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
No, it's not doing it wrong, it's objectively better. It's not like automation plus or something. It's better, no way around it.
Now is it as big as a leap as some people think? Up for debate. But is it a leap? 100% yes.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
You aren't wrong. I tried to explain it to a friend via IM on PC. He was pretty confused. The convo ended, you just have to see it I guess.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Believe it or not it's very representitive of what I was seeing in detail and colour, I spent ages doing this and comparing. Like I said the difference between them in colour and detail is VERY close, the impact in regards to brightness is somewhat lost obviously, but when you can see the diference in some shots, then it only gets better in person right? I wouldn't have posted them otherwise.
selfconfessedcynic
Member
As an owner of a 4k tv without HDR, I'm going to wait for OLED TVs to have better response times / for the ones with decent response times to drop in price by like 25-30%.
Im jelly over HDR, but have no issues with my current TV at all.
Im jelly over HDR, but have no issues with my current TV at all.
Necro900
Member
Wait though, you say pictures are representative and that the JS9000 is on the right, but how I picture HDR tvs is the image on the left. That image shows a higher dynamic range, so that details in over/underexposed parts of the image don't get lost, while preserving luminosity.
If these tv manufacturers' idea of HDR is simply overblowing lights (that also happened during the PS4Pro presentation with that Horizon sunset) then there's something wrong about it. HDR should be about colour depth and dynamic range, allowing you to see more and better, not less and brighter/darker.
EDIT: To clarify, I think you should see the sun brighter on the HDR panel, but you should be able to make out the clouds detail around it as on the regular panel.
If these tv manufacturers' idea of HDR is simply overblowing lights (that also happened during the PS4Pro presentation with that Horizon sunset) then there's something wrong about it. HDR should be about colour depth and dynamic range, allowing you to see more and better, not less and brighter/darker.
EDIT: To clarify, I think you should see the sun brighter on the HDR panel, but you should be able to make out the clouds detail around it as on the regular panel.
Caayn
Member
This. On top of it a HDR vs SDR comparison with two completely different TVs is useless.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
If you like stripped detail and bad colour then yes.
NeoRaider
Member
I noticed this too. It wasn't pretty imo.
djplaeskool
Member
HDR to me is sort of like VR, where you can only really appreciate the difference with an in-person demonstration.
Side by side comparison shots seem to either do a poor job of showing the differences, or feel disingenuous with how its presented.
Side by side comparison shots seem to either do a poor job of showing the differences, or feel disingenuous with how its presented.
I dunno man.
I cant see those stripped details you speak of and I think those colors look way more natural.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Interesting, I wonder if they had properly calibrated the display you saw because everything I've read gives the opposite impression to yours.
I'm going to have to pop down to Richer Sounds and take a look for myself.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Is real life already HDR? Also do pc monitors come with this as standard?
Can I just say? Everything you show us of your "glorious HDR image" is appearing on our SDR displays. You are always gimping your original shot.
And even then, you're not going to be able to show us exactly what the HDR standard is protecting us from (horrible contrast ratio for example).
michaelius
Banned
When Sony has new technology in console their studios are forced to use it
Uncharted 1 had six-axis sequences (grenades and balancing iirc)
Uncharted for Vita had touchscreen stuff
So it doesn't surprise me that 2017 Sony games will use a lot of HDR lens flares to showcase the effect.
After that devs will learn how to use it better and we will get more subtle effect.
NeoRaider
Member
Well, it was one huge TV on the stand, separated from the rest of the TVs. And it had HDR logo.
But you know these promo videos with crazy colors they are playing in the stores? Maybe that was the issue idk.
McHuj
Member
I don't think I've seen one consumer HDR monitor? Maybe there are professional ones?
See here is the issues:
1. You are viewing your own photos through your own displays at home
2. You have no freaking idea what display people are viewing these screen shots on.
3. Your camera simply can not capture the full dynamic range of HDR
4. There is no method of embedding HDR data in your photo so even if I view them on a HDR display it won't look any decent.
The SDR TV looks better in these photos on my display.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
I said from the start the impact of the HDR part as it were cant be translated in a SDR shot! But the detail and colour detail has come over very well! To people who say HDR is overblown, look at the lights in the shop, the Sony looks terrible.
Gamesgbkiller
Member
It's very tempting. Imagine Bloodborne on that screen. WHEW!
I don't think there is any consumer grade HDR monitor (yet).
But there certainly will be some sooner or later. I mean heck, the latest graphics card generation already supports DP1.4 for 8k60 HDR10 and 4k120 HDR10 haha.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Yeah, demo modes for TVs always look terrible because they crank everything up to the max because people will be seeing them in brightly lit stores.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Could be personal perspective and you just didn't like it. No one says you have to like it or that your opinion is wrong for you. Maybe it isn't for everyone.
I would note that the gross majority or retailers just unbox the sets and toss them on a wall without calibration and run demos on discs or drives. Even with calibration, the image varies set by set. Most TVs left in factory settings are set up to show off extreme color and brightness. Without adjustment it can be waaaay overdone.
=GabrielKnight=
Member
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Just viewing on my phone, very easy to see. The Sony is at the warmest setting it can go to, the picture quality in those shots of the Sony look like that in person.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Cheers, this is much better. Wasn't seeing much difference in OP's photos but this is like night and day. Amazing.
Gamesgbkiller
Member
XANDER CAGE
Member
This reminds me of when blu-ray first hit the market and marketing departments had to figure out how to show how much better HD looked in an SD commercial. This is a clown fiesta.
I think the best way to explain HDR is with this example:
"Say you are taking a picture of a red wagon. Current TVs can choose from 256 shades of that red color to show all the highlights and shadows. HDR TVs can use 4096 shades of that color to show even more nuanced color variation. It is like having a larger box of crayons with which to draw the image."
How is that?
"Say you are taking a picture of a red wagon. Current TVs can choose from 256 shades of that red color to show all the highlights and shadows. HDR TVs can use 4096 shades of that color to show even more nuanced color variation. It is like having a larger box of crayons with which to draw the image."
How is that?
I think the first few years of HDR is going to be a lot of creators 'lens-flaring' it up. In other words, things are going to look gaudy when they try to show how awesome HDR is by using the extreme contrast for no other reason than they can. A lot of the 'demo' HDR images such as the one below make the image look like it's been run through some gaudy instagram filter.
Like the blue went from something natural into some cartoonish blue. I know HDR gives a lot of potential for creators of content, but I hope they get the gaudiness in check quickly and use the expanded contrast/color palette in a more tasteful fashion.
See, here I don't really like. Already felt this in the Horizon demo but it seems like a blue and orange enhancer.
Night and day difference.
damn it, late on the joke