https://twitter.com/Guerrilla/status/827579117730144256@Huskymania2 We will be playing the same part of the game as the media and we will avoid any story bits
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Horizon Zero Dawn - Preview Thread [Up: All Previews Live]
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Chris Metal
Member
Bollocks...
Nightengale
Member
Thoughts in general.
Combat Design:
Combat Design:
- Game looks like it plays fluidly and smoothly. No signs of major drops or elements that impede gameplay given that constant movement, fine controls are core aspects of the moment-to-moment. Its no DOOM/Titanfall, but it seems fine.
- Ranged combat execution doesnt appear to be realistic or has any elements of physics-works within it like wind, arcs and the like, but works and is the right choice given the enemy type, the no.of ammo required to take down enemies, etc.
- Combat toolset looks to be diverse from what is shown. Trap-wires look somewhat overpowered, but as a whole the game appears to be quite well designed to induce player to use as much of their main toolsets as possible to deal with the range of enemies.
- Melee combat looks to be far less dynamic compared to range combat in design. Appears to be a supplementary component to support ranged combat and stealth rather than existing as its own pillar on equal footing in diversity, design and dynamic application.
- For all of the weapons and variety of tools to mix-up the gameplay, there is a feeling that the toolsets work in the context of a effect-weakness-reaction type of rock-paper-scissors game design rather than a more sandbox-style of free-flow of effect-cause design where the outcome of mixing up the weaponry and tools are far less predictable due to the systems being governed by the physics and chemistry rather than weaknesses/strengths.
- Machine design is excellent. Good mix of variety, behaviour, scale, with different ways expected to deal with different enemies, requiring planning while also maintaining a skill level to deal with stronger enemies with sufficient mastery of toolset.
- What is impressive so far is that the peak of small-medium sized enemies appear just as well-designed in how to deal with them just as much as the large sized ones. Not sure how itll scale, but its good that there is no perception among the devs that big = powerful and small = weak.
- Human enemy design so far appears weak and uninspired. Poor line-of-sight, enemy AI reactiveness, smartness, stages of alert. Passable, but its at the level of your generic open-world super dumb AI enemies. Its more egregious here in the context of the fact that machine design is clearly leaps-and-bounds more well-thought out than human enemy design so far, as well as the fact that its a clear step-down from enemy reaction in Killzone games.
- Concern that theres a possibility that 4-5 of enemies are reskins of existing designs. While there are already a good variety of enemies, it would be disappointing if 20-25% of them are just slightly different versions of an existing model, even with different behaviour and ways of approaching them.
- Variety appears to be there. The fact that side is separated from other quest types like errands, trials, etc mean that there is distinction between activities and that low-quality quest is hopefully separated from high-quality quest.
- As expected, unfortunately, it seems that a lot of the activity design that goes into Horizon are the usual elements wed come to expect from most open-world games. Fetch-quest, tower climbing, etc. There are unique modifiers that Horizon has put it to give it their own flavour, but its not a revelation in game design. This is not really a minus point, but it is what it is.
- This is neither a +/- thing, but an observational thought based on what is shown. If we put open world game design at a scale where theres MGSV/Hitman/Thief is on the opposite end of the spectrum, Far Cry 2 slightly further down, and the other side of the spectrum is your Assassin's Creed, TW3, DAI & GTAs Horizon leans closer to the AssCreed/GTA side of game design from the looks of it. Games with a more rigid template to the completion and progression of the game. The equivalent in open-world game design to the theme park game design as opposed to sandbox game design.
- Personally,I lean more in favour of the Thief side of the spectrum than the GTA side of the spectrum. It doesnt work for every game, and honestly having that kind of design doesnt automatically make a game better, since its just as easy to flop and make a mistake on those kind of designs, as with Far Cry 2. But its also true that fundamentally speaking, the theme park game design is seen as the more safe and generic approach. Its a relatively stable formula, whereas the other side is more a Wild West in terms of how it can be designed, and it leads to more diversity, even if not always for the better.
- Game looks great. Im not particular on graphics, but it never hurts to look visually stunning.
- There are a lot of little touches Im noticing. Things like audio logs hearable while moving around, the quest-creator for crafting items. Theres nothing that stands out as archaic or flawed so far in terms of design 101, and it shows that GG has taken to heart a lot of small details in minor criticisms and avoid to have them in Horizon.
- GG is the developer. I myself dont assume the game will be bad, but its true their last game was mediocre. Even if it was different directors, leads and team altogether, that is a factor that will contribute to some worry.
- Animation is poor for side-questy stuff and conversations. Its not even about that infamous scene, but stuff like characters talking and looking you in the eye has the dead-eyes look to them. Feels a bit weird.
- I like everything Im seeing right now, but a lot of it is a reaffirmation of what I felt it wouldve been from all the details and footage shown of the game. A competent open-world RPG from a talented first-time devoper thats hitting 7s on almost every aspect of the game design, but with combat design and the aesthetic elements are hitting 8s or 9s, thus allowing it to stand out.
Right?! You can tell that game was meant for 60 fps. Looks and plays so much better.
It's like a horrible carnival ride, that just when you think it's over, it starts back up again.
Ok this is hilarious. Next thing you know you will also add that the game also features polygobs like Shadow of Mordor does...
Lmao *in game cutscenes, * mission objectives shown on HUD, * weather, * stealth... etc i mean come on...
This will never get old , does it?
Now this is something new
Link to video please
ok its too much!!
I don't think so because , they are just started with an office , so i don't think they have much to add, maybe i am wrong .
But if you look at K:SF its already have some of the best implementation of volumetric effects, So i think this is Guerrilla thing only, for now.
LightOfTruth
Member
Terrific post Night. Your thoughts come across as very honest and insightful.
I think the only portion I didn't fully understand was this bit:
I haven't played Hitman or Thief, but are you citing MGSV because of the sandbox nature of the actual gameplay, or because you can complete missions in a non-specific order?
Where would you say something like Fallout lies in that spectrum?
muetimueti
Neo Member
The way I interpret the scale is free-form systems-driven gameplay on the one side (MGSV, Hitman) and map full of collectibles and overall gameplay driven by going through lists of (not terribly interesting) objctives on the other.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Any talk about how long the campaign is ? Also when are the reviews due out ? Thanks.
More_Badass
Member
I'd say an open world scale would have Minecraft on one end, and Mafia 2 on the other. Complete sandbox versus completely story-driven open world stripped of any extraneous elements
Nightengale
Member
This. Systems-driven, where the game is build around basically layers of systems and the core appeal is how the systems interact. Some systems focus on different thing more than others. That being said, a systems-driven game can still all the elements of a checklist game, and vice-versa.
For example, when I look at say... an infiltration mission. A game that does it as the furthest end of the theme park spectrum would be GTA or Watch Dogs where at its worst, doing it "out of the script" demands you restart it, or even if there's no lame fail-state, the game lays out "perfectly positioned" hackathons or interactive objects for a curated picture-perfect way of dealing with the situation.
Whereas something like Hitman, even though it possesses all the elements of WD's "curated" elements of a kill, layer that with a lot of dense, more free-form tools in the form of tools, clothing, ways AI react to stuff, scale of the missions to allow an experience where even if it also has all the elements of a themepark, isn't built like one.
This is a good comparison as well.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Hitman is sandox, not open world. It has self-contained levels that are not connected. Same with games like Dishonored and its ilk.
Baroquemantic
Member
I really want to know if you can use the ropecaster to tie two or more machines to one another (like in Just Cause) instead of just pinning a single one to the ground. Would be really cool.
I think Nightengale means that games like MGSV and Hitman have "open worlds" designed as a sandbox to give players various ways to complete a mission. The game essentially doesn't limit the player down a set path and the player can use equipments at their disposal to accomplish the objectives. Take Mission 16 in MGSV, for instance. You are given a large portion of the map to navigate in and your objective is to find the caravan, which is at the airport. The game encourages you to infiltrate a nearby outpost to gather intel to locate the caravan. However, if you're familiar with the layout, you can rush straight to the airport, defeat the Skulls and fulton the truck. You can even just use D Walker to fulton it from outside the base. If you're too slow, tanks arrive and escort the truck, in which you have to stop the caravan on any point of their route. Basically, the open world is designed to be fully open ended, giving the player freedom to finish the mission as they wish with collectibles being non existent, but side quests are included.
On the other hand, the other type of "open world" is one where you have an entire living, breathing world to explore and participate in. The main difference is that in free roam, you are encouraged to look around the world for collectibles and side quests. You can also simply indulge in this rich world, interact with NPC's and such. However, this type of games typically offer little freedom in mission structure, usually forcing players down a set path. GTA games and The Witcher 3 being good examples.
In my opinion, Ubisoft games should be in their own category. The worlds created are not fun nor interesting to explore at all. Their game design philosophy is to fill the map with repetitive side quests and bland collectibles. Hopefully, Horizon has open world design more akin to GTA and The Witcher.
Damn it, I see Nightengale replied. Oh, well, I hope I got it right anyway.
I haven't played the new Hitman , and the last one i played is too long back, But i don't think in hitman you can go guns blazing and complete the objective from the get go. For ex , you start the mission with infiltrating a building and you have to use some sort of disguise, which again you can do in many ways. I mean its not that much "out of the script too" , Again i agree that the game opens up at this point and let you do the mission or complete objective as you want.
The crysis series is the best example where open world design excels well and above the Sandbox design of later games in the series.
Nightengale
Member
Yeah, Crysis is a great example that flew over my head.
And I agree with the points you raised on Hitman. It is in many ways, a game that also has the hallmarks of "pls do this cool scripted thing", but I highlighted it as an example I liked because it layers in a focus on systems while also giving the scripted beats for those who like that element of it.
I really, really hope, that the game will deliver. Actually, I am quite sure, that it will. Almost everything, that has been shown so far, screams quality. The world-building is also quite beautiful and for me, the graphics are at a "The Order 1886" - level, but it is an open world. GG are really working some black magic right there. I wonder, whom they had to sacrifice for that? Maybe therefore they had do hire new employees? I love Eloy and the music btw.
I am so excited, I just can't hide it...Eloy, you know it's true....uuh..uuh..uuhh...I...
I am so excited, I just can't hide it...Eloy, you know it's true....uuh..uuh..uuhh...I...
I never know the names of my girls
A band named Eloy! Sorry, couldn't help it.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
The visuals in The Order had an entirely different focus. They went for a realism that is no where to be found in Horizon, which is colorful, almost cartoony looking.
I would bet anything that materials in Horizon won't look nearly as good and authentic as they did in The Order.
ok its too much!!
This fanmade box art reminds me of this
But of course Horizon is the only one of the two gets attacked for taking inspiration from other games
To be fair the latter seems to have a far more versatile mix, if we're going by what the box art is trying to say.
Ok, let me phrase it differently. The graphics WOW me like The Order did back then. You are absolutely right regarding the artstyle/focus - differences and the more cartoonish look. But in my humble opinion everything comes together more organically in Horizon. I am a big The Order fan btw, even if the game wasn't what I hoped for gameplaywise.
PS: The Band is not the threesome I was thinking of....
The Order was like walking around a museum of the old kind - full of beautiful things that you can't touch and don't move. There was no life anywhere in it's locales IMO.
Horizon looks like it's managed to capture both a sense of place, and to portray a living place, buzzing with activity. It's the one thing Ubi get right with the Creed games IMO, Rockstar absolutely nail every time and was also there in The Witcher.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
It seems to be a pre order bonus, but I don't know where.
I want it.
HeisenbergWW62
Banned
This boxart is very misleading in terms of the amount of trees in the gameoh, how could I forget the golden phrase about Guerrilla when it comes to Horizon threads on my GAF boxart. Fixing that
EDIT: Actually now I fear that this joke boxart I made will be used for legit hate purposes, so I did a small edit again lol
Epidemik2000
Member
Fix this shit GG
they should give out an Aloy in game skin for LBP3 too since it will be the Plus game this month
LMFAO should have put a small *Boxart doesnt translate the amount of tress in the game
iamsirjoshua
Member
I'm not even that much of a LBP fan but for some reason that looks amazing.
Second this. Makes too much sense.
martino
Member
imo gameplay videos we have are not long enougth to get a real idea of that.
probably will have to judge that march 3 myself.
Equanimity
Member
It looks so goofy I love it
Yep it does
I do think their goofy animations are intentional.
That's right. The Thunder Jaw was the most difficult to design and animate - it took 18 months to nail every part of its design from begining to end.
It took two animators three months working full time to get basic animations in place but by the time certain things were devised and changed it took around six months to complete a robot from start to finish.
Killzone 2 to Shadowfall are top notch in the lighting deparment.
Indeed.
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0mt89-YEtA
And now it's a competition between which game is more versatile.
BigEmil
Junior Member
It's the Nintendo can do no wrong notion
backbreaker65
Banned
I'm hoping the devs gameplay stream, they
1. they should show how versatile the A.I. is, one thing I didn't like about the Preview event was no versatility in how the user approached the scenario. They were all pretty much the same e.g. guns blazing with a barrage of ammo dumping to subdue the target. I would like the dev stream to introduce some tactical fighting, all the while seducing the A.I. to use it's other weapons as an assault on you. I want to see the A.I. be tactical as well.
1. they should show how versatile the A.I. is, one thing I didn't like about the Preview event was no versatility in how the user approached the scenario. They were all pretty much the same e.g. guns blazing with a barrage of ammo dumping to subdue the target. I would like the dev stream to introduce some tactical fighting, all the while seducing the A.I. to use it's other weapons as an assault on you. I want to see the A.I. be tactical as well.
Exactly, and I still remember how boring skyward sword was and people still think slapping a n old franchise name on a box is guaranteed 10/10. If I am more skeptical of one of these game it would be zelda because if botw suck the franchise is dead to me. The last 2 console zelda game bore the crap out of me.
nycgamer4ever
Member
A game does not have to be innovative to be good. If that is a criteria of your then you probably don't get excited for many games. Maybe you can get a vr sex game with a contraption that straps to your Johnson. That's some innovative tech. Goty?
digoutyoursoul
Member
Seen enough myself, don't want to spoil anymore. Day one.
Inigo Montoya found a new purpose in life after he exacted his revenge. Good for him.
A band named Eloy! Sorry, couldn't help it.
Chaostar
Member
1 hour
Edit: Oh crap I wrong it was meant to start at 4pm get.
Well it's been delayed and is due to start any minute now (16:20gmt)
Equanimity
Member
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Anyone got the link to the stream, please?