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[tensuke]

You literally think alt-right/Gamergate/otherwise racist shitheads would not use the opportunity to play as a Nazi in multiplayer as a springboard to shout racist things, and feel like they're partly condoned in this since the company allowed them to play as a Nazi in the first place?

You say that as if GG, the alt right, 4chan, and /poI don't exist...hell they're the most pissed about the exclusion because they would LOVE to jump at the chance to role play as nazis.

I just can't get behind this thinking, you're saying this as if playing as nazis is a new concept or something. These people aren't going to think Sledgehammer is partly condoning that activity because they're able to play as nazis. What's the difference between those kinds of people playing as nazis shouting racist stuff and playing as black soldiers shouting racist stuff and playing as female soldiers shouting sexist stuff and white male soldiers shouting racist/sexist stuff? Nothing's stopping them from doing any of that.

Besides, that's only really relevant if the debate is over the inclusion of nazis as a playable faction. The fact is, nazis are playable anyway. The inclusion of swastikas doesn't suddenly make them "more nazi-ish". GGers are deluded, I'll give you that, but nobody's thinking Sledgehammer is "condoning" or "enabling" that behavior because there's swastikas on the uniforms. If you want to do something about toxic online interactions, taking swastikas off nazi uniforms in a WWII game isn't going to help. Hell, if anything the *removal* is emboldening these people. I just think it's a bad decision.

Do you also think that many men don't single out those playing female avatars in games and environments that are typically male-dominated?

Sure some do...are you saying you're against female avatars because they lead to more harassment?

You're right, everyone knows the context so really no reason to let idiots be be even more idiotic.

I think you're overestimating the effect of swastikas in a WWII game, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Where do you stand on soldiers in WW2 using UAVs?

Well, like I said, it's a call of duty game so there's going to a degree of historical inaccuracy present *in the gameplay*.

 

[Ethelwulf]

If Sledgehammer Games would simply add an option to the settings menu that allows the Nazi iconography to be toggled on or off, everything would be fine.

For E-sports - just toggle it "off" on all played/streamed games to preserve sentiment.

Simple.

As I said, no big deal this is literally just a game. Historic accuracy doesn't matter really.

 

[Crossing Eden]

How isn't it?

Because video games are expensive and the time spent trying to appease the alt right could be better spent elsewhere.

They already have swastika textures in SP - they also already have the censored versions in MP - just add the option to enable them in MP.

Voila! Historical accuracy

Not how textures work and not how censorship works either.

 

[CountAntonius]

WW2 Esports are go.

 

[AgentOtaku]

I'm cool with Sledgehammer's solution here

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

That's fine. We don't need Nazis in a World War 2 game anyways.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Because video games are expensive and the time spent trying to appease the alt right could be better spent elsewhere.

Not how textures work and not how censorship works either.

It isn't alt-right to be a history buff and want historical accuracy in a game that's being touted as being historically accurate.

Actually, that's exactly how textures work.

The Wolfenstein team manages to do it, because they have a censored version they released in Germany and then uncensored versions everywhere else.

I guess they must have a more technically proficient dev team, right?

 

[Peroroncino]

If people will be running around with holo-sights on BAR they might as well run around as black female 'nazis' in a ganja camo uniform, CoD MP never really was an immersive experience and it never will be, so ultimately it doesn't bother me one bit, let people express themselves however they want.

As with any other CoD, I'll pick it up used or during some sale mainly for the single-player [yup, I'm one of those weirdos that plays cod for the campaign], that's why I'm glad they're gonna approach those 2 modes differently and go for some semblance of historical accuracy in the campaign, I don't expect it to be realistic [it's a game, duh] but I'm hoping that it will be at least immersive, and stuff like nazi iconography etc. helps big time with that.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I just can't get behind this thinking, you're saying this as if playing as nazis is a new concept or something. These people aren't going to think Sledgehammer is partly condoning that activity because they're able to play as nazis. What's the difference between those kinds of people playing as nazis shouting racist stuff and playing as black soldiers shouting racist stuff and playing as female soldiers shouting sexist stuff and white male soldiers shouting racist/sexist stuff? Nothing's stopping them from doing any of that.

Besides, that's only really relevant if the debate is over the inclusion of nazis as a playable faction. The fact is, nazis are playable anyway. The inclusion of swastikas doesn't suddenly make them "more nazi-ish". GGers are deluded, I'll give you that, but nobody's thinking Sledgehammer is "condoning" or "enabling" that behavior because there's swastikas on the uniforms. If you want to do something about toxic online interactions, taking swastikas off nazi uniforms in a WWII game isn't going to help. Hell, if anything the *removal* is emboldening these people. I just think it's a bad decision.

Just because the alt right's gonna alt right doesn't mean we have to make it easier for them. Not our job or Sledgehammers.

I think you're overestimating the effect of swastikas in a WWII game, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I think you're underestimating the rise of fascism in the US.

Well, like I said, it's a call of duty game so there's going to a degree of historical inaccuracy present *in the gameplay*.

There's a degree of historical accuracy in the visuals too and it's not because of the lack of swastikas.

It isn't alt-right to be a history buff and want historical accuracy in a game that's being touted as being historically accurate.

They straight up said that the MP isn't aiming to be realistic and that they approached it with a different mindset than in the OP. Wanting swastikas in a game and ignoring the myriad of reasons why it's a good idea to exclude them while also having a complete misunderstanding of the term censorship does not make you a history buff. Tolerating every other historical inaccuracy from the costume and level design but falling on the hill of swastikas specifically for the sake of historical accuracy is quite dubious.

Actually, that's exactly how textures work.

The Wolfenstein team manages to do it, because they have a censored version they released in Germany and then uncensored versions everywhere else.

I guess they must have a more technically proficient dev team, right?[/QUOTE]
Wolfenstein doesn't have MP nor do they have a completely different set of assets to make for SP and MP.

 

[PhantomThief]

Because video games are expensive and the time spent trying to appease the alt right could be better spent elsewhere.


Not how textures work and not how censorship works either.

Dude. The alt right is a small group of forgive my language, neo nazi cunts. They shout a lot on the internet, but I'd like to meet one in real life.

Using a historical emblem isn't appeasing the alt right.

Just because the alt right's gonna alt right doesn't mean we have to make it easier for them. Not our job or Sledgehammers.



I think you're underestimating the rise of fascism in the US.

Right so it's more a US problem, not really a CoD issue is it?

 

[Nepenthe]

I just can't get behind this thinking, you're saying this as if playing as nazis is a new concept or something. These people aren't going to think Sledgehammer is partly condoning that activity because they're able to play as nazis. What's the difference between those kinds of people playing as nazis shouting racist stuff and playing as black soldiers shouting racist stuff and playing as female soldiers shouting sexist stuff and white male soldiers shouting racist/sexist stuff? Nothing's stopping them from doing any of that.

It's not a new concept. But we live in a time where Nazism and white supremacy are back at the forefront of politics because white people are pissed off that we were led by a black man for eight years, and it's also a time when gaming is more openly criticized from sociopolitical points of view. This means Nazi imagery takes on a different context than it did years ago when gamers viewed these kinds of games as nothing but the virtual approximation of "Cowboys and Indians." This is something Sledgehammer understood better than most people complaining about this, mainly because it's their reputation on the line and not any of ours.

So, how does one navigate these new and trying times? Easiest way is by saying "fuck Nazis" and not giving them a platform where they could potentially be both victorious and fully acknowledged through scrubbing the imagery in multiplayer mode. What Sledgehammer has done is effectively take a stance on what they think of Nazis (which they're totally allowed to do) and the people who constantly give them strength by always appealing to some nonexistent precedence of satire and historical accuracy, even when the company employs that good ol' "artistic liberty" they harp about so much by deciding on their own how they want to position Nazi imagery in their game.

And what is the difference between a Nazi, black men, women, and white men? Three are social demographics that say nothing about the character of anyone therein. The other is an inherently immoral scourge on humanity that says everything you need to know about the person who revels in it.

Sure some do...are you saying you're against female avatars because they lead to more harassment?

Following from my explanation above, no. But that wasn't the basis that I made the comparison; the basis was your insistence that people basically don't respond to the imagery in a game.

 

[TimeEffect]

Dude. The alt right is a small group of forgive my language, neo nazi cunts. They shout a lot on the internet, but I'd like to meet one in real life.

Using a historical emblem isn't appeasing the alt right.

Right so it's more a US problem, not really a CoD issue is it?

Its an American game though so you can see why swastikas in Mp can be a celebration

And the racists arent a small minority.

 

[mnannola]

Shooting everyone is cool, but no swastikas?

 

[Continental 0p]

Sledgehammer's reasoning makes sense, and I am glad to not only get a reason but that they thought to get any strife out of the way months in advance.

Spoiler

Also,
I am a little surprised this thread lasted 5 whole pages without getting locked. I expected a lot more nasty backlash. Good surprise, I guess

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Dude. The alt right is a small group of forgive my language, neo nazi cunts. They shout a lot on the internet, but I'd like to meet one in real life.

Using a historical emblem isn't appeasing the alt right.



Right so it's more a US problem, not really a CoD issue is it?

This debate is strange because if you want historically accurate iconography in a WWII game, you are labeled as part of the alt-right.

Since when is liking history and expecting historically accurate things to be actually historically accurate, a bad thing?

 

[PhantomThief]

Its an American game though so you can see why swastikas in Mp can be a celebration

And the racists arent a small minority.

Racists aren't, but people who willingly identify as alt-right probably are.

And not all racists aspire to be Nazi's, or dress up like them and behave like them.

A lot of alt-right dirtbags do, which is why I just call them neo-nazi's. Alt right is a pretty stupid term which they themselves enjoy.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Dude. The alt right is a small group of forgive my language, neo nazi cunts. They shout a lot on the internet, but I'd like to meet one in real life.

Using a historical emblem isn't appeasing the alt right.

They're bigger than you think. And unfortunately they control the white house atm with a rise of hate crimes due to the spoken words of the president as well as the "tolerance" from moderates about whether or not we should tolerate their ideology in the first place.

Right so it's more a US problem, not really a CoD issue is it?

In Germany, this discussion wouldn't even be had in the first place. ¬_¬

 

[koss424]

Multiplayer is already extremely unrealistic, and has been so for many years now in every FPS.

The fact that the lack of swastikas is what makes some people suddenly cry "unrealistic" is hilariously suspicious.

that's not fair - I now agree that it's probably a good choice to remove the swastika from MP given the facts. But I disagreed with that point even a few weeks ago in the last thread on the topic. Having an opinion that players should have historical imagery in a game about WWII is not suspicious at all. In fact it's understandable even if you disagree.

 

[Madness]

The hammer and sickle isn't exclusive to the Soviets. The swastika, especially in that orientation on a white circle with a red banner is only associated with Nazis.

Exactly as it should be, take note DICE.

You should really educate yourself OP if you dont see the difference.

So should you guys. The hammer and sickle is almost entirely associated with communist Soviet Union and transplanted to other communist states like China and North Korea etc. Whereas thr Swastika yes in that orientation and banner is excluisve to Fasicst Germany but was a historical symbol for thousands of years and to this day swastikas are still in use in India, Pakistan, Thailand, Bangladesh, Nepal etc.

To somehow think the Nazi swastika is more reprehensible than the hammer and sickle which still to this day has hundreds of thousands of North Koreans in gulags, the Soviets killed almost 2 million plus Afghanistan civilians flying the hammer and sickle.

Call it for what it really is, a bunch of Americans afriad that their alt right movement will co-opt it and troll users online rather than any attempt to deflect as saying that the Soviet Union was any less reprehensible than Fascist Germany in killing millions and trying to enslave and conquee the globe. East and South Asians are still stuck with the fruits of Communist Soviet Union with China and North Korea existing to this day.

But it is what it is. Let people play as some Iron Cross Wehrmacht or whatever because out of sight, out of mind has always worked. Maybe we should just call Hitler 'he who must not be named' in the game as well.

 

[Nepenthe]

In Germany, this discussion wouldn't even be had in the first place. ¬_¬

If there's one thing I love about Germany, it's that they said "Never again means never again."

Meanwhile in America, people are like "Sure, we had that whole slavery thing, BUT..."

 

[Crossing Eden]

that's not fair - I now agree that it's probably a good choice to remove the swastika from MP given the facts. But I disagreed with that point even a few weeks ago in the last thread on the topic. Having an opinion that players should have historical imagery in a game about WWII is not suspicious at all. In fact it's understandable even if you disagree.

It's that they only seem to want historical accuracy regarding swastikas, and have nothing to say about stuff like this:

or the various inaccuracies in the character design of the various factions. Like it's ONLY historically accurate if they're swastikas, somehow that symbol will push it from standard hollywood bastardization of a real conflict into "totally historically accurate."

If there's one thing I love about Germany, it's that they said "Never again means never again."

Meanwhile in America, people are like "Sure, we had that whole slavery thing, BUT..."

Don't even get me started on how other places have effective hate speech laws in place.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

So should you guys. The hammer and sickle is almost entirely associated with communist Soviet Union and transplanted to other communist states like China and North Korea etc. Whereas thr Swastika yes in that orientation and banner is excluisve to Fasicst Germany but was a historical symbol for thousands of years and to this day swastikas are still in use in India, Pakistan, Thailand, Bangladesh, Nepal etc.

To somehow think the Nazi swastika is more reprehensible than the hammer and sickle which still to this day has hundreds of thousands of North Koreans in gulags, the Soviets killed almost 2 million plus Afghanistan civilians flying the hammer and sickle.

Call it for what it really is, a bunch of Americans afriad that their alt right movement will co-opt it and troll users online rather than any attempt to deflect as saying that the Soviet Union was any less reprehensible than Fascist Germany in killing millions and trying to enslave and conquee the globe. East and South Asians are still stuck with the fruits of Communist Soviet Union with China and North Korea existing to this day.

But it is what it is. Let people play as some Iron Cross Wehrmacht or whatever because out of sight, out of mind has always worked. Maybe we should just call Hitler 'he who must not be named' in the game as well.

Savage!

 

[PhantomThief]

This debate is strange because if you want historically accurate iconography in a WWII game, you are labeled as part of the alt-right.

Since when is liking history and expecting historically accurate things to be actually historically accurate, a bad thing?

I understand it's a very sensitive issue, especially in the U.S and this forum has a lot of U.S based posters.

Sadly, they can take things to extremes as well. Demonizing people who want to see swastika's being used in a WW2 focused game just seems weird to me. The same with people who perhaps might not WANT to gun down female nazi soldiers in a WW2 game. It just doesn't seem right to me personally. That does not mean I have anything against females or women in general, or in videogames.

I was always of mind that in WW2 based games, no one really wants to play as Nazi's. I might have been wrong though.

 

[Cake Boss]

It's that they only seem to want historical accuracy regarding swastikas, and have nothing to say about stuff like this:

or the various inaccuracies in the character design of the various factions.


Don't even get me started on how other places have effective hate speech laws in place.

It that Barack Obama 2nd from the right?

 

[Kolibri]

It's that they only seem to want historical accuracy regarding swastikas, and have nothing to say about stuff like this:

Wait, I thought this was a joke mock-up.... That can't be real.

Dreams of a true WAW follow-up fading quickly

 

[koss424]

It's that they only seem to want historical accuracy regarding swastikas, and have nothing to say about stuff like this:

or the various inaccuracies in the character design of the various factions.


Don't even get me started on how other places have effective hate speech laws in place.

Again, you are completing someone's argument and concluding that anyone that doesn't agree with you is suspicioned to be a racist. I don't think that's okay. Granted your presented point is a great counter argument.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Again, you are completing someone's argument and concluding that anyone that doesn't agree with you is suspicioned to be a racist. I don't think that's okay. Granted your presented point is a great counter argument.

I'm not suspecting them of being a racist, I'm just saying the motivation of "historical accuracy" doesn't seem at all genuine.

 

[Nepenthe]

Nazism having a different social and cultural context in America than the hammer and sickle symbol is not that much of a shocker considering our history with Nazis and WWII. I would also be wary of equating the East Asian swastika with the Nazi swastika since the orientation and context of usage are different as well.

 

[yellow submarine]

What the fuck am I reading. Are people really this dense in not understanding why it's in single player and not in multiplayer?

It's not about historical accuracy at all. Sometimes I wonder if is there a fucking goddamn defense force on GAF for Nazis, Nazi imagery and being anti-women.

It's like gamergate all over again with people getting bent out of shape for straw man medium-purity arguments when it's a thin veil over blatant discrimination.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

This hardly seems like something to get up and arms about.

I would be less forgiving if this was an actual WWII shooter trying to be realistic and toneally on point. However, this is fucking Call of Duty we're talking about. The multiplayer portion of these games is just dumb arcadey fun. Symbols of pure hate and evil don't fit in with something that is just trying to be goofy.

You're never going to get anything close to historical accuracy in CoD multiplayer. Complaining about this just feels silly.

 

[PhantomThief]

It's that they only seem to want historical accuracy regarding swastikas, and have nothing to say about stuff like this:

or the various inaccuracies in the character design of the various factions.

Don't get me wrong, this is fucking stupid as well.

I won't be purchasing this game at all, but I do hope there can be a resurgance in WW "realistic" shooters.

Like WaW was a pretty great game. So were Call of Duty 2 and 3.

 

[J_Viper]

I have no issues with the MP playing loose with history

In fact, I can't wait to see weed camo on WW2 soldiers

 

[Crossing Eden]

Don't get me wrong, this is fucking stupid as well.

I won't be purchasing this game at all, but I do hope there can be a resurgance in WW "realistic " shooters.

Those would have had to be made in the first place for there to be a resurgence of them.

 

[Kinyou]

If there's one thing I love about Germany, it's that they said "Never again means never again."

Meanwhile in America, people are like "Sure, we had that whole slavery thing, BUT..."

The ban on swastikas in videogames actually doesn't make that much sense considering how much freedom other German media has.

Like this parody which has 0.0% educational value is filled with swastikas without anyone raising an eyebrow.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ieqtd_switch-reloaded-obersalzberg-spion-spies_fun

The main reason why it's still banned in German games is because no company wants to fight that legal battle. As this thread shows they'd likely be declared nazis themselves

 

[PhantomThief]

Those would have had to be made in the first place for there to be a resurgence of them.

I dunno, have you played Cod2? Medal of Honor : Allied Assault? Brothers in Arms?

Those are the type of games I'm speaking of. Which is why "realistic" is in airquotes.

 

[Kalentan]

This hardly seems like something to get up and arms about.

I would be less forgiving if this was an actual WWII shooter trying to be realistic and toneally on point. However, this is fucking Call of Duty we're talking about. The multiplayer portion of these games is just dumb arcadey fun. Symbols of pure hate and evil don't fit in with something that is just trying to be goofy.

You're never going to get anything close to historical accuracy in CoD multiplayer. Complaining about this just feels silly.

I honestly think it's weirdly bringing out some people's true colors.

 

[tensuke]

Just because the alt right's gonna alt right doesn't mean we have to make it easier for them. Not our job or Sledgehammers.

Wait a minute, are you secretly Jack Thompson's alt?

I think you're underestimating the rise of fascism in the US.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

There's a degree of historical accuracy in the visuals too and it's not because of the lack of swastikas.

I mean, technically, that's partially why.

 

[michaelius]

What self respecting black man would fight for the Axis willingly?

I mean it's fine to have, but it just feels weird.

Weren't there any recruits from colonies in Italian army ?

 

[Deckard Chapel]

What the fuck am I reading. Are people really this dense in not understanding why it's in single player and not in multiplayer?

It's not about historical accuracy at all. Sometimes I wonder if is there a fucking goddamn defense force on GAF for Nazis, Nazi imagery and being anti-women.

It's like gamergate all over again with people getting bent out of shape for straw man medium-purity arguments when it's a thin veil over blatant discrimination.

Wow, really?

You do understand the concept of personal tastes and opinions, right?

This hardly seems like something to get up and arms about.

I would be less forgiving if this was an actual WWII shooter trying to be realistic and toneally on point. However, this is fucking Call of Duty we're talking about. The multiplayer portion of these games is just dumb arcadey fun. Symbols of pure hate and evil don't fit in with something that is just trying to be goofy.

You're never going to get anything close to historical accuracy in CoD multiplayer. Complaining about this just feels silly.

The main problem with all of this, is that Sledgehammer Games is constantly touting the game as "historically accurate", "a gritty, visceral, boots on the ground experience" and "faithful and respectful to the men that fought and died for their country in this war".

If you're going to say things like that, then removing even a small part of that history is going to send history buffs over the edge.

 

[benicillin]

I dunno, have you played Cod2? Medal of Honor : Allied Assault? Brothers in Arms?

Those are the type of games I'm speaking of. Which is why "realistic" is in airquotes.

Call of Duty 2 used the Iron Cross instead of the swastika in multiplayer too though.

 

[Nepenthe]

I understand it's a very sensitive issue, especially in the U.S and this forum has a lot of U.S based posters.

Sadly, they can take things to extremes as well. Demonizing people who want to see swastika's being used in a WW2 focused game just seems weird to me. The same with people who perhaps might not WANT to gun down female nazi soldiers in a WW2 game. It just doesn't seem right to me personally. That does not mean I have anything against females or women in general, or in videogames.

I was always of mind that in WW2 based games, no one really wants to play as Nazi's. I might have been wrong though.

The thing is, rarely do you see an argument for historical accuracy that doesn't move past overt symbology and common knowledge like the swastika's prominence in the Germany army. Or hell, rarely do you see historical accuracy arguments that take into account the myriad of different social groups that also took part in the war. I've seen "historical accuracy" proponents gawk at women and black people even just being in the game like we weren't there at all.

As I implied earlier, there's a basic vision of "historical accuracy" that gamers have promoted all these years. It's one of straight white men with Allied flags fighting other straight white men (maybe some straight Japanese men if we're lucky) with Axis flags, when this is not an entirely accurate picture of WWII. It's like when people concern themselves with the removal of confederate statues because they insist they're an untouchable part of history, not realizing that their placement was a result of a Southern historical revisionism campaign on why the civil war was fought in the first place and thus glorifies white supremacy.

So if people want to make a "historical accuracy" argument without being lumped in with or misconstrued as supporting the alt-right, they should move the argument beyond "I really want to play as/kill a Nazi."

 

[Van Bur3n]

Because Facism is evil.
And Socialism, in its purest form, is about equality.

This is Communism we're talking about here. Don't try to make an excuse for that disgusting shit either.

As for the removal of the swastika in multiplayer, I understand it. In the campaign you're shooting Nazis, so I don't think seeing the symbol on buildings or the enemy itself that you're shooting is controversial. Killing the bad guy Nazis like in any WWII game. However, the player's ability to customize themselves in the multiplayer with the possibility and decorating themselves with Nazi decor, I do feel that is just going to be controversial. Especially in this day and age. Me personally, I'd rather the symbol be prevalent, but I understand the reasons behind it.

And honestly, who gives a damn about historical accuracy with including the swastika when we're going to be seeing this shit:

Ugh, this is not going to be like the COD2 I loved. Think if I ever play this game, I'll probably stick to single player.

 

[CrimsonGun]

I read somewhere that the main reason they did this was because there a lot of European and Asian countries that have strict laws about swastika exposure and whatnot.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Wow, really?

You do understand the concept of personal tastes and opinions, right?



The main problem with all of this, is that Sledgehammer Games is constantly touting the game as "historically accurate", "a gritty, visceral, boots on the ground experience" and "faithful and respectful to the men that fought and died for their country in this war".

If you're going to say things like that, then removing even a small part of that history is going to send history buffs over the edge.

I'm more than a history buff, I have a degree in history specializing in WW2 and this doesn't even send me close to the edge because it's the fucking multiplayer.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Making Nazis less overtly offensive by removing swastikas seems...questionable and impossible. You can remove a visual element like the swastika, but they'll still quite noticeably look like Nazis. It's kind of a difficult thing to get away from, when you're depicting Nazis.

The notion of playing as people of color in Hitler's army is also quite absurd. Wasn't exactly a merry band of diverse folks. Making it appear that way is somewhat questionable. That whole notion of making Nazism representable, is icky as fuck. I'm sure it's not the intent, but it seems kind of bad?

Sacrificing historical accuracy to make your already historically dubious multiplayer game more welcoming is a fair direction. Just this aspect is...a bit quirky.

I'm strongly pro-inclusion, but strongly against cleansing the Nazi image.

My suggestion: all players, from their perspective, play for the Allies. Think America's Army; the enemy always plays the Axis. Players can now customize their avatars and represent a spectrum of humanity without burying the racially coded violence and slaughter perpetrated by the Nazis.

Racial and gender diversity fit great into an escapist WW II shooter. Just not on the Axis side.

Yeah, this seems like an idea.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Good arguments on both sides.

In one mind I'm against white washing over history in any context, but on the other hand playing as a Nazi is controversial. If memory serves Battlefield 1942 German flags were just red white and black. I never played the original CoD games in multiplayer much, so I am not sure how they dealt with it.

 

[Van Bur3n]

I read somewhere that the main reason they did this was because there a lot of European and Asian countries that have strict laws about swastika exposure and whatnot.

That hasn't stopped games from using the symbol in the US version, such as Wolfenstein. Those other countries would usually just get a censored version without the symbols.

 

[Kalentan]

Call of Duty 2 used the Iron Cross instead of the swastika in multiplayer too though.

Same with Battlefield 1942.

They used this flag:

I just find it funny that NOW's it's a problem.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I'm more than a history buff, I have a degree in history specializing in WW2 and this doesn't even send me close to the edge because it's the fucking multiplayer.

If they added an option in the settings for it, would you agree this whole argument would cease?

 

[Kibbles]

Eh seems fine. They should have a toggle.