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How do you feel about Global Warming?

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Zaptruder

Banned
Let's take stock of the opinions and understanding on the subject matter.

Personally;

I think it's a problem that's been understated. A conservative scientific body has largely provided us with a pretty muted understanding of the speed of change - new reports consistently exceed old target thresholds.

Moreover, multiple tipping points are a reality - we've already tripped over a few - and as the situation worsens, we accelerate into the other tipping points.

Global political economic response is slower then even the conservative targets set decades earlier would've wanted it to be - and there's continued political obfuscation. There's too much diffusion of responsibility. And not enough political will to take the kind of actions we really need to take to reduce the issue.

Moreover, the way the whole system works - it only dissipates so much carbon per annum. We've long exceeded the amount it can dissipate, so we're adding carbon into the atmosphere... and that additional carbon will continue to trap and intensify the heating issue. Moreover, the dissipation rate is dropping; we've filled up the ocean's ability to drain away the carbon, and we're destroying the trees that we need to sink this carbon, contributing towards a run away acceleration.

I think there's a non-trivial chance... probably in the 10-20% range, that we will confirm within the century that we are on our way to unstoppable positive feedback loop that will stabilize once the conditions of our planet are closer to Venus than it is to present day Earth.

I think we'll be lucky if we end this century with the death of a billion to two billion people - after accounting for the famine, disasters, displacement, economic upheaval that the knock on effects of climate change will deal us.

But what really gets me about all of it... is that we could've had a better and healthier economy and environment if we hadn't made a few key political-economic missteps.

1. The use of GDP as the standard for global development... Simon Kuznets, the guy that came up with it warned that it was a narrow accounting indicator - not a total welfare indicator.

2. The demonization of nuclear power - the alternative of continued coal power propogation reduced potential energy growth, while increasing radioactive waste per kilowatt hour... it's the most insane and myopic thing.

3. Economically accounted for externalities - at least then the free market could've been properly motivated to not give a shit.

4. Corn subsidies and the populization of beef products - ok so that shit is tasty... but there's so much other good stuff on this planet, it's just so senseless that we destroy so much of it for such marginal amounts of utility. It's not even the tastiest meat. Most people would prefer chicken over beef if you gave them the option of one or the other.


My only hope is that by the time we experience climate change induced shocks that galvanizes immediate global action, that we haven't tipped over the tipping point that makes continued escalating warming an inevitability.

Maybe the accelerating nature of technology will allow us to do some truly miraculous things - claw back the green house gases already in the atmosphere, draw back the acidity and carbon in the oceans, restore life.

More likely, the accelerating nature of technology... will allow us to burrow underground and setup the goddamn matrix.
 
Hm. Who is at fault more? The few in power, or the many without?

EDIT: I recycle stuff and try to not be wasteful. No, we are not done for, unless we don't care (which, come to think of it, is upsettingly true).
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Is a conspiracy to take away our guns! ....

Actually, Is kind of amazing how everyone knows what Is happening, and even though is within ourselves to change course, we can't do anything about it.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Our planet has regularly gone through glacial (ice ages) and interglacial periods.

Did we fuck up the A-B-A-B nature of this cycle? Yeah we probably did. But the earth, in the long term, is not fucked. We just fucked our interglacial era up.

The earth will be fine.... Let's just hope WE can adapt (and the other species too).
 
Honestly it's not something I think about. I accept it's real and we might be fucked, but I don't feel like we're going to fix it in anyway.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
this xkcd makes it seem like a nice thing:

palm trees in the north? sign me up.

http://xkcd.com/1379/

My Vancouver area is projected to be like California if global warming predictions play out, so I can't help but feel like it will benefit me.

But those climate refugees, tho. It's gonna suck for a lot of currently tropical peoples.
 

jmdajr

Member
We're probably hosed. I think whatever needs to be done will simply take too long to do. And just based on personal circumstances, I don't see myself changing my daily habits. Gotta drive to work to make a living etc.

It's just one of those things where you think, "Oh well, someone else will have to worry about it."

Don't know if that's makes me a terrible person. Maybe, but it is what it is.
 

Talon

Member
Even looking at US history, it's remarkable the bad luck that we've had when it comes to energy policy/consumption.

Eisenhower's plan for car efficiency standards were tanked by Congress.

Carter pushed hard on Nuclear power in the summer of 78 and then Three Mile Island happened a few months later.

Japanese cars were pushing American cars on efficiency, but Reagan's under-the-table cap on imports forced the Japanese manufacturers to focus on profitability/unit and thus the "options" model of car design as they roughed out the next five years before their limits were raised.

I'm optimistic in some degree because the Montreal Protocol showed how quickly sovereign nations will work together if they sense a real crisis. But it is really fucking frustrating how this is political anathema for half of the US.
 

Dishwalla

Banned
Honestly, I really don't care all that much. Most of the effects will take place or at the very least become unbearable after my life is over, so I'm not too worried. Extremely short sighted point of view by me I know, but it's the truth.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Honestly, I really don't care all that much. Most of the effects will take place or at the very least become unbearable after my life is over, so I'm not too worried. Extremely short sighted point of view by me I know, but it's the truth.

Uh oh.. reincarnation is real! You're screwed!
 
You can't preach for lower fuel consumption and then travel in private jets. The moment hypocrites started politicizing the issue I couldn't avoid turning a blind eye.

About the warmth, I like it and wish there was more of it, too bad the winters also feel colder.

EDIT: I do still care about energy consumption as a economic issue, and because most of it still comes from non-renewable resources. Those are factors that everyone should consider whatever their position is on climate change.
 

SRG01

Member
The tragedy about climate change is that it commits the most harms to the ones that are the least responsible, whereas the ones that are the most responsible suffer minimal consequences.
 
On Tuesday in my region, we had the strongest summer thunderstorm that I can remember with lots of trees hurled through the air and smashing cars. It's not only the higher temperatures and rising sea levels, it's the increase in heavy weather disasters that I'm afraid of.
But since there is a strong lobby force against any change in policies because they are profiting from all the use of fossil fuels, I am pessimistic that we can avoid the catastrophic outcome. Frog in boiling water etc...
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
You can't preach for lower fuel consumption and then travel in private jets. The moment hypocrites started politicizing the issue I couldn't avoid turning a blind eye.

Is this an Al Gore dig?

That guy and his documentary have nothing to do with the phenomenon, so I hope you don't feel better about ignoring it just because he was the poster boy for it for 5 minutes in 2004.

http://www.latimes.com/science/environment/la-sci-0513-antarctic-ice-sheet-20140513-story.html



Unless massive reservoirs are going to be built around coastlines, the world is going to look a lot different in a few (hundred) years.

This freaks me out because I have a storage unit filled with videogames and it's along the coastline at sea level.

Won't somebody please think of my videogame collection?
 

ЯAW

Banned
It's one of nature's way to trim the herd. Even at worst I don't think human race is going to extinct, we just have to adapt harder conditions and it is going to cost lives. Hopefully we come out from it smarter.

Pentti Linkola the proclaimed "eco-facist" has some hardcore ideas how to save the planet, google him and weep... Disgusting ideas but from time to time I feel like there is no happy ending for all of us and if we are not willing to make the hard decisions the future will be more grim.
 

Talon

Member
We really fucked up by letting the label "global warming" stick instead of going with "climate change" from the start.

Gave the deniers a softball there.
 
Hopefully with Cosmos explaining it better than 99% of the other sources more people become aware its a real threat and we need to do something about it.

Its not even a question of if we should. We need to.
 
You can't preach for lower fuel consumption and then travel in private jets.

That's not really how to look at it with a free market lens.

If you understand how cap and trade works, you can understand that the above is not hypocrisy.

Cap and trade is a market solution that allows one to pollute as long as you purchase offsets so that the theoretical net change in pollution is zero.

So an individual that advocates for policy change to address global warming can still be in the right when flying a private plane -- absent hypocrisy -- so long as his or her advocacy results in a net minus in CO2, for example. An advocate for climate change can own a coal fired power plant or be a major shareholder of a coal mining operation without hypocrisy if the plan was that it would be used to test new ways to reduce carbon emissions from coal source energy. The goal of an advocate isn't really to reduce direct carbon output on an individual level, but to create a systemic change in how carbon is emitted to the atmosphere through policy.

Otherwise, you could call such a person a hypocrite for not walking everywhere or even a hypocrite for buying shoes because it takes carbon to create said shoes. But that is an asinine way to consider this topic.

It's the same as saying that Bill Gates or Warren Buffet are hypocrites for advocating against economic policies that lead to the amassing of wealth at the top 0.001% while being the richest men on Earth partially because of said policies. But their actions and advocacy have worked to improve conditions for the poor and needy and they have spoken out about the socio-economic issues that lead to such income disparity.

I face palmed quite a bit at folks criticizing Gore, for example, for having like, 6 monitors. His systematic policy effects and effects as an investor and board member on a major corporations has probably had a bigger effect on decreasing carbon output directly and indirectly than millions of average Americans making small daily choices.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I hate the term global warming, because idiots start saying "lol we gotr 20 feet of snow global warming lolololol".
 

Zaptruder

Banned
We really fucked up by letting the label "global warming" stick instead of going with "climate change" from the start.

Gave the deniers a softball there.

Yeah... no. Global warming is the reality. As is climate change. Deniers *have* obfuscated the message irrespective of which label was used.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah... no. Global warming is the reality. As is climate change. Deniers *have* obfuscated the message irrespective of which label was used.

Actually I think even scientists prefer the term 'climate change' over the last 10-15 years.
 
Yeah... no. Global warming is the reality. As is climate change. Deniers *have* obfuscated the message irrespective of which label was used.

He's just saying that the term "global warming" naturally lends itself to dissenters more so than the term "climate change", which I believe is correct.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
ЯAW;115976387 said:
It's one of nature's way to trim the herd. Even at worst I don't think human race is going to extinct, we just have to adapt harder conditions and it is going to cost lives. Hopefully we come out from it smarter.

Pentti Linkola the proclaimed "eco-facist" has some hardcore ideas how to save the planet, google him and weep... Disgusting ideas but from time to time I feel like there is no happy ending for all of us and if we are not willing to make the hard decisions the future will be more grim.

Birthgiving must be licenced. To enhance population quality, genetically or socially unfit homes will be denied offspring, so that several birth licences can be allowed to families of quality.
Energy production must be drastically reduced. Electricity is allowed only for the most necessary lighting and communications.
Food: Hunting must be made more efficient. Human diet will include rats and invertebrate animals. Agriculture moves to small un-mechanized units. All human manure is used as fertilizer.
Traffic is mostly done with bicycles and rowing boats. Private cars are confiscated. Long-distance travel is done with sparse mass transport. Trees will be planted on most roads.
Foreign affairs: All mass immigration and most of import-export trade must stop. Cross-border travel is allowed only for small numbers of diplomats and correspondents.
Business will mostly end. Manufacture is allowed only for well argumented needs. All major manufacturing capacity is state owned. Products will be durable and last for generations.
Science and schooling: Education will concentrate on practical skills. All competition is rooted out. Technological research is reduced to extreme minimum. But every child will learn how to clean a fish in a way that only the big shiny bones are left over."

Yeah... I get the feeling that we're either going to trip over the runaway positive feedback loop tipping point... or we'll have come to significantly better, humanistic, technological, ecological and sustainable solution then the one that Pentti suggests.
 

gloomy

Neo Member
Local government can't even get long term town planning right. So I have no faith for any long term strategies being created on an international scale. Money has too much influence in the decision making. Gotta keep growing the GDP pie.

Edit: We gotta start eating more bugs
 

leadbelly

Banned
Our planet has regularly gone through glacial (ice ages) and interglacial periods.

Did we fuck up the A-B-A-B nature of this cycle? Yeah we probably did. But the earth, in the long term, is not fucked. We just fucked our interglacial era up.

The earth will be fine.... Let's just hope WE can adapt (and the other species too).

Yeah. I'm in no position to predict what will or won't happen, but I do know enough to know that the Earth will be fine, and actually, life will be fine. Whether that includes us, who knows. Life has been through it all. There have been periods when it was much warmer than it is today, and times when there was far more CO2 in the atmosphere than there is today.

Even the Medieval Warm Period was a bit warmer than it is today. I know it is argued that it wasn't a global phenomenon, and that in terms a 'global' temperature, it may have been cooler, but in a recent studies, it seems it may have been global after all.

Global warming is popularly viewed only as an atmospheric process, when, as shown by marine temperature records covering the last several decades, most heat uptake occurs in the ocean. How did subsurface ocean temperatures vary during past warm and cold intervals? Rosenthal et al. (p. 617) present a temperature record of western equatorial Pacific subsurface and intermediate water masses over the past 10,000 years that shows that heat content varied in step with both northern and southern high-latitude oceans. The findings support the view that the Holocene Thermal Maximum, the Medieval Warm Period, and the Little Ice Age were global events, and they provide a long-term perspective for evaluating the role of ocean heat content in various warming scenarios for the future.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6158/617
 

kudoboi

Member
terrible. But nothing I can do about it.

the temperature here is 34°C or 93°F on average. I don't remember it being so warm a few years ago
 
The same way I feel about gravity or not being able to breathe underwater. I'm not going to jump off a building or dive 100 feet into the ocean to see if I don't explode into a million pieces or drown. The same applies to global warming... which should just be labeled "climate change" at this point.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Actually I think even scientists prefer the term 'climate change' over the last 10-15 years.

They're right to try multiple methods to market the message better. It's only rational after all.

But my opinion is simply; the labelling is simply one of those obfuscatory lines of argument that have sucked oxygen away from the real issue. And it's obfuscatory because people in denial would've made a shit-fit either way.
 
Most people would prefer chicken over beef if you gave them the option of one or the other.

This isn't really the meat (hur hur hur) of the issue, but most people that regularly eat meat (ie those that contribute towards the problem) do have the choice, right? I mean,generally speaking, chicken is cheaper, so I can't imagine there are too many people with access to beef who don't have access to chicken and are crying out for it?

I remember reading a thing a while ago about how someone was trying to boost up the farming of kangaroos because the meat is similarish to beef but they release so much less methane.
 
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