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How JJ Abrams jilted Paramount for Episode 9
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
- Start date
Freewheelin'
Member
Always surprises me people like R1 more than TFA; suppose it really separatee those who favour plot/what is happening over character/why is this happening
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
lets see....opportunity to direct one of the most important films of all time, or work on a POS for Paramount. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Subpar Spatula
Banned
yeah, it is strange. character writing is night and day between those movies but somehow hopeful music + sadness + goal completion resonates with some people. :/
I'm just going by what I've read in this and several other articles. The trilogy of where the characters would go was laid out by Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt according to this article:
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-episode-8/
RJ has said he was given absolutely nothing to work with for TLJ though
That article pretty clearly says they just kind of hashed out some broad ideas, but no one was beholden to anything. And Johnson had free reign.
It's also an article from 2015, and includes Michael Arndt. We know he didn't work on the final draft of The Force Awakens, and that things have continually changed and shifted with stuff like Fisher dying and Trevorrow being fired. Whatever ideas they had in 2013/14/15 aren't really all that relevant anymore.
Abrams and his deal at Paramount has been on the ropes for years. The only reason he doesn't move his film deal to WB (where he's been crushing it with his TV deal for years) is that the old Hollywood adage says 'you don't have your film & TV deal in the same place just in case'.
IIRC Abrams father was a Paramount executive which is why he's felt such a strong pull to the place. Let's see how strong it is moving forward.
Two wrongs most definitely do not make a right.
IIRC Abrams father was a Paramount executive which is why he's felt such a strong pull to the place. Let's see how strong it is moving forward.
Two wrongs most definitely do not make a right.
Bill R Boggess
Member
I predicted the backlash as soon as the film became a mega-success both critically and commercially.
I even anticipated that some would begin citing the prequels which have been incessantly maligned as better because they were, at the very least, a fresher take on the material.
Of course, one of the chief complaints about the prequels were that they felt very different than the original trilogy, so its bizarre that so many now claim TFA hewed too closely to ANH.
But the real fun begins when TLJ hits because if the film is really as great as the pre-release buzz suggests, the ESB fanboys will lash out to protect what they consider to be sacrosanct.
I also anticipate that many will complain that Rian Johnsons script veers too far away from the feel of the franchise, which demonstrates why trying to please everybody especially when it comes to SW is a lost cause.
I loved TFA, loved the prequels despite their flaws, loved the original trilogy and Ill no doubt love TLJ.
My only concern is Luke getting shortchanged. I dont mind him being a fallen, broken man but before this trilogy ends, I want I NEED to see a fully powered Luke Skywalker on screen, kicking some ass.
This is the Rey trilogy. It's Rey's story. You should probably adjust your expectations.
UnemployedVillain
Member
For me it was just more interesting. It showed off a more unique and unseen perspective that we'd only really seen from the games and from side characters that the movies never followed. It managed to make another story about the Death Star seem more exciting than a story only somewhat involving a "Death Star" and otherwise being new
Yeah, the old trio are in these for the fans and because they were important figures in the SW universe, but it isn't their story and they shouldn't be the focus
TDLink
Member
Haven't read the whole topic so I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but part of JJ's deal means Paramount is paying him a salary, and also giving him an office.
So literally he could be working on their lot, on Star Wars (and he's getting paid by them regardless), and they are seeing no benefit from it.
I can understand why they wouldn't be happy. But yeah, not like they can actually do anything given how badly it would screw them in the future.
So literally he could be working on their lot, on Star Wars (and he's getting paid by them regardless), and they are seeing no benefit from it.
I can understand why they wouldn't be happy. But yeah, not like they can actually do anything given how badly it would screw them in the future.
CitizenVectron
Member
My main worry is the time-frame, at this point. It's been well-spoken of how Trevorrow had difficulty coming up with a way to fix the Leia dilemma (can't blame him, it's very tough). JJ is going to have to start from scratch and get this movie out in two years. I wish they would have given him until May 2021.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Regardless of who the trilogy belongs to and I love Rey this is obviously the swansong for most of the original cast and Luke deserves his glory.
I dont care if the scene is brief or if he goes out in a blaze of Skywalker glory but we need to see a fully leveled-up Luke wielding that iconic green lightsaber one last time.
Given that the central thrust of TFA was about finding him, I dont think its unrealistic to expect a payoff at some point.
And if they dont, its a missed opportunity.
Fandom has been clamoring to see Unleashed Luke for decades. Like that Vader scene in Rogue One, it's something we desperately need.
Fan service complaints will be rampantRegardless of who the trilogy belongs to and I love Rey this is obviously the swansong for most of the original cast and Luke deserves his glory.
I dont care if the scene is brief or if he goes out in a blaze of Skywalker glory but we need to see a fully leveled-up Luke wielding that iconic green lightsaber one last time.
Given that the central thrust of TFA was about finding him, I dont think its unrealistic to expect a payoff at some point.
And if they dont, its a missed opportunity.
Fandom has been clamoring to see Unleashed Luke for decades. Like that Vader scene in Rogue One, it's something we desperately need.
I have foreseen it.
Bill R Boggess
Member
TFA narrative is literally driven by the quest to find Luke Skywalker.
I embrace that this trilogy is about a new generation but clearly, Luke is incredibly important perhaps even more so than Leia and Han.
And we got some excellent Han-centric action and a fantastic, emotionally resonant death scene for him so I think Luke deserves similar treatment.
Bill R Boggess
Member
I'll accept it either way but Luke has always been my favorite and I hope he gets his proper sendoff, even if that occurs in Episode 9.
PeskyToaster
Member
It's why people think spoilers are a real thing. The list of plot points is so important that foreknowledge of them ruins the entire work. Or why CinemaSins-level criticism is so popular. Very surface level, fits in 140 characters or less.
I will say this about Rogue One. It does try to go to some interesting places. Having Cassian do some questionable things and Saw's group of rebels but it didn't go that deep and I don't think people want it to. We need the Rebels to be the good guys.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
The Wizard of Oz was important.
Citizen Kane was important.
A New Hope was important.
Schindlers List was important.
These films either elevated the art of filmmaking, changed how filmmaking was done, or presented a look at the world in a way we hadnt quite considered before. They touched our hearts, our souls, our humanity, and our imaginations.
Star Wars Episode IX is the latest in Disneys Henry Ford-inspired assembly line for making movies. Its important for Disney shareholders and for Star Wars fans to masturbate (happily or angrily) about for the next decade.
And thats it.
And I say this as someone who liked TFA.
Not to compare it to any of the best films ever, but I've got a strong feeling that EP8 will accomplish the bolded. And who knows what JJ will do, building off of something that is new and different to the SW universe.
I also think there's a lot of evidence to counter this "assembly line" perspective.
AlexFlame116
Member
That put quite an image in my head. I never want to see it again.
Now gimme my Qui-Gon movie.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
This is a good way to describe that.
I don't understand the R1 love. But I do understand the like for the concepts and ideas and how they apply to the lore within.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Do tell.
Just wait until automation kicks in.
Do tell.
So because they plan out the release of their films it's an assembly line? Surely our critical thinking skills are capable of more than this
They could have given explicit directions on how the SW episodes were going to turn out and make them as safe as possible. JJ was brought on to make sure the first movie was well made and interesting.
RJ, a guy who makes films that do NOT follow this formula, was given total freedom to do literally whatever he wanted.
TLJ, based on interviews, reports, released info and RJ's filmography, is everything BUT an assembly line film.
Is it assembly line JUST because they're coming out on a steady pace and the quality of the films doesn't factor into it? Because Marvel hasn't released a bad movie in years and the last 2 Star Wars films have been praised by both fans and critics alike.
If there's a franchise that can routinely release movies on the pace of Marvel and Lucasfilm, while not dropping in quality, then I don't see an issue with assembly lining them up.
If there's a franchise that can routinely release movies on the pace of Marvel and Lucasfilm, while not dropping in quality, then I don't see an issue with assembly lining them up.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I wasnt making a comment on their quality; only that its hard to call films made this way important.
And thats fine. Theyre not meant to be important. Theyre meant to be good enough to make money. And theyve been monsterously successful at that.
Hell, if you squint just right, you could say the first wave of Marvel movies leading up to, and including, the first Avengers is important to film because it pretty much created the shared universe thing thats been all the rage in Hollywood since it started.
Calling them assembly line isnt an insult. Ford generally makes quality cars, just as Disney generally makes quality movies.
AlexFlame116
Member
Do tell.
"Serpent Society"???
Also I very much like this new production line of Star Wars movies after not getting any at all for so long (Clone Wars doesn't really count).
It's really a bad comparison to make. Assembly line assumes mass production of the same thing over and over.
TFA and TLJ will be completely different films with different objectives. As I'm sure TFA and EP9 will be totally different as well.
For example, these things are probably going to be components of TLJ.
And you sure presented the "assembly line" argument as if it were a bad thing.
It was a joke, to hide until the end of the event that Cap 3 would be a Civil War movie.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Civil War was called Serpent Society for a bit to fool people, I think. I remember thinking how disappointing that movie would be thinking it would be based on the comic event.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Films being different doesnt make them not part of an assembly line. A Ford F-150 is much different from a Ford Focus.
My point in saying assembly line is that everything is mapped out far in advance and all they need to do is plug in workers to build it. And if workers dont do whats expected of them, theyre replaced (Ant Man, Rogue One, Episode IX, Han Solo...).
The sellable product is more important than the artist behind it.
Again, assembly line movies can be good or even great. But if you really think that even the great Rian Johnson wasnt expendable if he didnt play ball the way Disney wanted him to, I dont know what to tell you. Hes making a Star Wars movie that needed to fit well in Disneys Star Wars universe.
Its not going to be high art. And its not supposed to be. And thats fine.
I just don't understand the point of the assembly line thing being brought up in the first place. Then you even went on to say "but I still enjoyed TFA", suggesting that you liked it in spite of it being an assembly line film. That's what confused me.
I never said he wasn't expendable. I said he wrote EP8 with complete freedom.. and it just so happened to be GOOD. But it goes to show you that the typical (not saying you) "these are movies are made by suits" perspective is bullshit.. which is where I thought you were trying to take it.
They would have replaced him in a second, but they didn't because he succeeded.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Do tell.
I don't think you realize how sad this made me. For a second I thought Black Panther was this year, then I remember everything was rearranged because of Spiderman *sigh*
Finally bringing Spiderman in the MCU in exchange for pushing Black Panther back a year was a damn good trade, in my opinion.
What
As much as I want to be mad at Rian Johnson for turning down the EP IX job, I understand why he did it.
I am not a big fan of J.J. returning for IX. Don't get me wrong, after the 10 year wait since the last SW film, TFA was really good for what it was. Having re-watched it numerous times since then, I feel it lacks the flavor and lore depth that can be found in the Original Trilogy, and even the Prequels in some cases. I say that as a massive lore fanatic, and as a person who has read almost every book in the "Road to TFA" series and many that came out after the release of the movie.
Having said that, it looks like JJ left Paramount with their dick in their hand, and the only reason they did not pursue it was because they wanted to stay in good terms with everyone involved. Nor real nice on his part.
I am not a big fan of J.J. returning for IX. Don't get me wrong, after the 10 year wait since the last SW film, TFA was really good for what it was. Having re-watched it numerous times since then, I feel it lacks the flavor and lore depth that can be found in the Original Trilogy, and even the Prequels in some cases. I say that as a massive lore fanatic, and as a person who has read almost every book in the "Road to TFA" series and many that came out after the release of the movie.
Having said that, it looks like JJ left Paramount with their dick in their hand, and the only reason they did not pursue it was because they wanted to stay in good terms with everyone involved. Nor real nice on his part.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Sony ain't doing amazing but they're in much better shape than Paramount. No one wants to attach themselves to a sinking ship.
Their biggest on lot producer (Neal Moritz) just left to sign for Paramount and their slate co-financing partner (L-Star) dropped out of their contract early because they lost a ton of money on Sony's awful slate of films.
So, no, I wouldn't say much better shape at all.
AlexFlame116
Member
The way that John Boyega and Daisy Ridley acted around each other during Star Wars Celebration this year, the awkwardness. I know my wish will come true.
LOL I wish!
Ah okay! Sorry I had completely missed the stuff about Serpent Society when that was going on so for a second I thought it was Cap 4 or a cancelled movie heh heh.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's a shape Paramount wishes they were in. As in, not drowning. Just barely floating.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Sonys offer to J.J. Abrams to direct a film in their Spiderverse:
Youll float too.