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How to Invest for Retirement

If you have credit card debt, I'd absolutely take care of that first before opening a retirement account.

As far as waiting for the next recession, no, I don't see a point in that. Fact is, there's no telling when that will be. I would just start when you can.
Good to know, thanks for the advice.

The credit card debt is definitely priority #1 for now, but I'll still be squirreling away a couple hundred each month so I'm not completely on my ass in case of an emergency. Living expenses are pretty low right now (living with my folks but moving out in May).
 

BigPapi

Member
Would it be a smart idea to wait until the next stock market recession to jump in on investing into an index fund?

Like I don't have the 3,000 needed up front to get in with Vanguard anyway. I've been paycheck to paycheck for basically my whole adult life - I'm 25 - plus I still have some credit card debt and student loan payments. My goal for this year is to eliminate the credit card debt (owe 4k on one because I maxed it out like a moron, 600ish on another), get the student loan situation under control (on reduced payments for now but I'd like to get on the 10 year plan rather than 25 years), and start saving (20% of income per the 50/30/20 rule). Average income right now is about two grand a month but I do a lot of freelance work so it can vary.

Figure I should save up for the year and invest once I have some capital, or should I wait to invest based on wherever the market is by that time?

Don't try to time the market at all the earlier you start the better. Definitely focus on your debts first. FYI you don't need 3k to open a vanguard account that's only the minimum to buy a share on one of their index funds you can open an IRA or brokerage account and buy etfs or stocks.
 

WoodWERD

Member
I'm looking for some general advice on consolidating my portfolio, and I want to shift some cash I've been sitting on into some index funds. Apologies if this has been discussed at length before, but here's a rough breakdown of where I'm at (the % represents % of my total liquid assets):

Trad/Roth IRAs - 28% - Mix of 6 USAA mutual funds (USGRX, USCRX, etc)
Beneficiary IRAs - 31% - Mix of 17 individual stocks
Brokerage - 20% - $ for index funds
Cash - 21% - emergency/reserved cash

My lifestyle/income situation changed pretty radically a few years ago, so I'm not actively investing in IRAs/401ks any more. I'm looking to simplify, reduce my fee exposure and keep a moderately aggressive position as I'm in my mid 30s. I also want to keep my tax liability to a minimum for 2016.

I'm using USAA's brokerage platform, and I'd like to ditch the mutual funds and individual stocks entirely and replace it with a mix of index funds. Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Should I spread some of these stock sales across 2017 or does it not really matter? Thanks for any advice.
 

Mrbob

Member
Would it be a smart idea to wait until the next stock market recession to jump in on investing into an index fund?

Like I don't have the 3,000 needed up front to get in with Vanguard anyway. I've been paycheck to paycheck for basically my whole adult life - I'm 25 - plus I still have some credit card debt and student loan payments. My goal for this year is to eliminate the credit card debt (owe 4k on one because I maxed it out like a moron, 600ish on another), get the student loan situation under control (on reduced payments for now but I'd like to get on the 10 year plan rather than 25 years), and start saving (20% of income per the 50/30/20 rule). Average income right now is about two grand a month but I do a lot of freelance work so it can vary.

Figure I should save up for the year and invest once I have some capital, or should I wait to invest based on wherever the market is by that time?

Take care of your bills first and when you finally have some capital to invest check out betterment. You can start with 100 dollars a month and don't need 3k up front. If you want to move that money to vanguard once you have built up to 3k you can do so.

No one knows where the market will be two weeks from now much less a year. Since your time horizon looks long based on your age you shouldn't be concerned with the current market action. Time in the market is more important than timing the market for long term outlook. If you look at studies the longer your money is invested the less chance you'll have a loss. This doesn't guarantee you will have a profit but on average it puts you in a good position to profit. When I say long time horizon I mean 10+ years. Only traders need to concern themselves with timing the market and even then many times get it wrong.
 
I'm looking for some general advice on consolidating my portfolio, and I want to shift some cash I've been sitting on into some index funds. Apologies if this has been discussed at length before, but here's a rough breakdown of where I'm at (the % represents % of my total liquid assets):

Trad/Roth IRAs - 28% - Mix of 6 USAA mutual funds (USGRX, USCRX, etc)
Beneficiary IRAs - 31% - Mix of 17 individual stocks
Brokerage - 20% - $ for index funds
Cash - 21% - emergency/reserved cash

My lifestyle/income situation changed pretty radically a few years ago, so I'm not actively investing in IRAs/401ks any more. I'm looking to simplify, reduce my fee exposure and keep a moderately aggressive position as I'm in my mid 30s. I also want to keep my tax liability to a minimum for 2016.

I'm using USAA's brokerage platform, and I'd like to ditch the mutual funds and individual stocks entirely and replace it with a mix of index funds. Any pitfalls I should be aware of? Should I spread some of these stock sales across 2017 or does it not really matter? Thanks for any advice.

Certainly simplify your holdings. Look to Vanguard's funds -- either total market + international + desired bond holdings (for a slightly more hands-on approach to managing your funds, also see below*) or target date (for a more hands off approach*). Vanguard's stock-based index funds are available as mutual funds or ETFs. Vanguard's target date funds are mutual funds, just as an FYI. The main point is that you certainly shouldn't need 6 different mutual funds and certainly not 17 different stocks.

As for spreading it through the year, I wouldn't. That's just going to add transaction costs with no real benefit. Consider your options and desired allocation, and then make it happen.

-------
* Vanguard's target date funds split domestic and international stock holdings roughly 60/40, with bonds peeling off from both. For example, if you had 10% bonds, your domestic/international/bond split would look like 54/36/10. The target date funds will gradually transition more of your holdings from stock to bonds as you draw closer to the target date. If you were in non-target funds, you would need to manage this transition yourself. However, the non-target funds also give you some discretion regarding how you want to allocate your money and how fast or slow you might want to convert to bonds. If you don't want to think about it, go with the target.
 

tokkun

Member
Anyone have any input on my post here? Would greatly appreciate any advice.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=227817726

For < $1000, I wouldn't worry overly much about min-maxing on fees or the tax efficiency of Roth vs Traditional. However, there is longterm value in making your accounts simple to manage, though. So I would advise rolling it into your Roth IRA if you can afford the taxes, since that would minimize the number of accounts you have. Or open a Traditional IRA with the same broker and put it there if you were planning on making contributions to a TIRA in the future anyway. But either way I would take it out of the old 401k.
 

TMC

Member
For < $1000, I wouldn't worry overly much about min-maxing on fees or the tax efficiency of Roth vs Traditional. However, there is longterm value in making your accounts simple to manage, though. So I would advise rolling it into your Roth IRA if you can afford the taxes, since that would minimize the number of accounts you have. Or open a Traditional IRA with the same broker and put it there if you were planning on making contributions to a TIRA in the future anyway. But either way I would take it out of the old 401k.

Thanks! I am going to roll it into my Roth IRA. Appreciate your input.
 

WoodWERD

Member
Certainly simplify your holdings. Look to Vanguard's funds -- either total market + international + desired bond holdings (for a slightly more hands-on approach to managing your funds, also see below*) or target date (for a more hands off approach*). Vanguard's stock-based index funds are available as mutual funds or ETFs. Vanguard's target date funds are mutual funds, just as an FYI. The main point is that you certainly shouldn't need 6 different mutual funds and certainly not 17 different stocks.

As for spreading it through the year, I wouldn't. That's just going to add transaction costs with no real benefit. Consider your options and desired allocation, and then make it happen.

-------
* Vanguard's target date funds split domestic and international stock holdings roughly 60/40, with bonds peeling off from both. For example, if you had 10% bonds, your domestic/international/bond split would look like 54/36/10. The target date funds will gradually transition more of your holdings from stock to bonds as you draw closer to the target date. If you were in non-target funds, you would need to manage this transition yourself. However, the non-target funds also give you some discretion regarding how you want to allocate your money and how fast or slow you might want to convert to bonds. If you don't want to think about it, go with the target.

Thanks for the reply. I've put in my sell orders, now to figure out how to allocate everything while those clear. I think I'd rather go with a mix of index funds vs a target date fund just so I can have a little more control, though I don't intend to make a lot of adjustments on top of normal rebalancing.

After reading into ETFs vs index funds, it seems index funds are better for me, but I want to clarify something. So, I'll buy a mix of index funds with the existing IRA balances as I mentioned. Using VFIAX as an example, is the 10k minimum investment per account or per person? I need to figure out how to spread the IRA balances across funds efficiently while still meeting the minimum requirements. Since I'm moving enough cash, I'll probably add a roth contribution for 2016, then invest in more funds/ETFs outside the IRAs.
 
Thanks for the reply. I've put in my sell orders, now to figure out how to allocate everything while those clear. I think I'd rather go with a mix of index funds vs a target date fund just so I can have a little more control, though I don't intend to make a lot of adjustments on top of normal rebalancing.

After reading into ETFs vs index funds, it seems index funds are better for me, but I want to clarify something. So, I'll buy a mix of index funds with the existing IRA balances as I mentioned. Using VFIAX as an example, is the 10k minimum investment per account or per person? I need to figure out how to spread the IRA balances across funds efficiently while still meeting the minimum requirements. Since I'm moving enough cash, I'll probably add a roth contribution for 2016, then invest in more funds/ETFs outside the IRAs.

It's going to be per account, though someone can correct me. I can't imagine it would be different. The Investor class of that same fund has a 3K minimum, though it carries a slightly higher expense ratio. The ETF has no minimum beyond needing to buy whole shares, and it shares the same expense ratio as the Admiral class of the mutual fund.

If you can't cover the 10K yet, go with one of the other options. You might leave a couple of bucks on the sidelines (in cash) with the ETF, or you might incur a slightly higher expense with the Investor fund, but it's not going to cost you much in terms of gains and you can convert to the lower priced Admiral fund once you've accumulated enough.
 

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
One of my friends recently started investing and is nervous that the market may be at an all time high and wants to hold off on putting any more money in. I asked him if he remembered where the market was last year. A google search pulled up this amazing article.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/investing/stock-market-return-2016/

Stocks are off to a brutal start in 2016. Nearly all investors are losing money. The U.S. market has shed about 10%. Tech stocks are getting hammered even more.

Welcome to the era of diminished stock market expectations. Nearly every Wall Street firm has slashed predictions for how stocks will perform in 2016.

Heading into this year, there was a lot of optimism. The U.S. economy looked strong. Hiring was up and the belief was people would go out and buy more stuff and that would drive growth.

As recently as mid-December, the average prediction for stocks in 2016 was a whopping 9% gain.

Now experts say we'll be "lucky" to get 4% to 5%. It hinges on U.S. consumers continuing to spend.

Crazy.The end of last year was amazing.
Thanks Trump!
A good reminder that often when everyone is zigging, the market zags.

Edit: Even better reminder to just stick to your plan and ignore the noise.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
That said, now might be a good time to sit down, and not market time, but seriously consider what your risk tolerance is and how much you should allocate to bonds. Not because I'm predicting the market will go one way or another, but because it seems pretty reasonable to expect that volatility will increase in a Trump presidency. Certainly don't be holding individual stocks while Trump is still on Twitter.
 

wolfhowwl

Banned
I've been working on cleaning up my personal finances and besides having finished paying off debt I'm also trying to get retirement stuff in order.

I currently have a Roth IRA through Vanguard with approximately $12,000 split between the Total Stock Market Index Fund and the Target Retirement 2055 Fund. I've already maxed my contribution for 2016.

I am also contributing to the TSP through the military and that is going into a Target 2055 account as well there.

I also hold around $8,000 in General Electric shares that are not in a retirement account and just have reinvesting dividends for now.

Right now I am wondering if I would be better off sticking with the Vanguard account instead of the government's TSP and if I should do index funds instead of the life cycle funds.

I'm also wondering if I should consider moving the money I have in GE into a retirement account or at least an index fund for diversity.
 
Just got my tax form from Vanguard. I made a non-deductible post-tax TIRA contribution in 2016, then immediately performed a backdoor Roth conversion. The 1099-R states that this contribution is taxable, in Box 2A. Why am I paying a double-tax for this contribution?

Edit: Never mind, Google was actually pretty quick with the answer. Holy cow, this is more elaborate to report that I expected. Fuck you 1099-R, fuck youuuuuu. Backside "Instructions for Recipient" was worthless.
 

Mairu

Member
My company is changing 401k providers next month. A bit disappointed since I'm losing access to the total stock/international Vanguard index funds I was previously invested in. Anyone have any advice based on the following choices?

BlackRock International Index K2 BTMKX
Putnam International Equity R62 POVEX
Janus Venture N2 JVTNX
Putnam Small Cap Value R62 PSCMX
Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm VSMAX
Great-West T. Rowe Price Mid Cap Gr Inst MKYXK
Vanguard Mid Cap Index Fund - Admiral VIMAX
Victory Sycamore Established Value R6 VEVRX
American Funds AMCAP R6 RAFGX
Putnam Equity Income R6 PEQSX
Vanguard 500 Index Admiral VFIAX
Western Asset Core Bond IS WACSX

There also appear to be a bunch of Putnam Advantage target date funds. I imagine my best bet is to go with either just the Vanguard 500 Index Admiral fund or some combination of the Vanguard small/mid 500 funds, though I'm not sure if I should put some into one of the available international funds.
 
My company is changing 401k providers next month. A bit disappointed since I'm losing access to the total stock/international Vanguard index funds I was previously invested in. Anyone have any advice based on the following choices?

BlackRock International Index K2 BTMKX
Putnam International Equity R62 POVEX
Janus Venture N2 JVTNX
Putnam Small Cap Value R62 PSCMX
Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm VSMAX
Great-West T. Rowe Price Mid Cap Gr Inst MKYXK
Vanguard Mid Cap Index Fund - Admiral VIMAX
Victory Sycamore Established Value R6 VEVRX
American Funds AMCAP R6 RAFGX
Putnam Equity Income R6 PEQSX
Vanguard 500 Index Admiral VFIAX
Western Asset Core Bond IS WACSX

There also appear to be a bunch of Putnam Advantage target date funds. I imagine my best bet is to go with either just the Vanguard 500 Index Admiral fund or some combination of the Vanguard small/mid 500 funds, though I'm not sure if I should put some into one of the available international funds.

The three Vanguard funds and the Black Rock international fund are your best bets if you don't mind a small amount of self-administration. (And based on a cursory search, it appears that the Putnam target date funds carry a high expense ratio.) To use the Vanguard funds to replicate your prior total stock allocation, split your domestic holdings roughly 8 parts in the 500 fund, 2 parts in the mid cap fund, and 1 part small cap. If this was on 100%, it would look something like 73/18/9. The Black Rock fund would be my choice for international due to the strategy and low expense. Choose whatever portion of your holdings you want to be international, common recommendations range from 20 to as much as 40 percent (I'm actually lower than 20, but Vanguard likes 40). Whatever you do, scale back your domestic percentages accordingly, maintaining the ratios between each class.

I don't know about your bond choices, but WACSX also carries a higher expense than I'd like to see, though it's not nearly as bad as what I saw for the Putnam target funds. This is again another point where if you want to hold bonds, you choose the allocation you want (even target date funds with long horizons seem to start with 10% and ratchet up the number as the year draws closer) and again scale back your domestic and international allocations in proper amounts.
 
I've been working on cleaning up my personal finances and besides having finished paying off debt I'm also trying to get retirement stuff in order.

I currently have a Roth IRA through Vanguard with approximately $12,000 split between the Total Stock Market Index Fund and the Target Retirement 2055 Fund. I've already maxed my contribution for 2016.

I am also contributing to the TSP through the military and that is going into a Target 2055 account as well there.

I also hold around $8,000 in General Electric shares that are not in a retirement account and just have reinvesting dividends for now.

Right now I am wondering if I would be better off sticking with the Vanguard account instead of the government's TSP and if I should do index funds instead of the life cycle funds.

I'm also wondering if I should consider moving the money I have in GE into a retirement account or at least an index fund for diversity.

Is the government matching anything with your TSP contribution? If so, keep doing it. If not, is your combined IRA and TSP contribution more than the individual IRA limit? Again, if so, keep doing it. As far as a total market and similar index funds (I'm assuming that's your consideration) or doing the target funds, that's up to you and how aggressive you want to be or how active you want to be in managing your allocations (you wouldn't be incredibly active, but it's certainly more involvement than just parking it in a target). If you don't want to think about it, do target. If you want to take a more or less aggressive approach, perhaps manage it yourself, and you can still look to the target funds' allocations for a rough guide even if you intend to deviate.

For the GE holdings, I recommend selling and investing in index funds unless this is just play money. Spread your risk around.
 

Magni

Member
I've been working on cleaning up my personal finances and besides having finished paying off debt I'm also trying to get retirement stuff in order.

I currently have a Roth IRA through Vanguard with approximately $12,000 split between the Total Stock Market Index Fund and the Target Retirement 2055 Fund. I've already maxed my contribution for 2016.

I am also contributing to the TSP through the military and that is going into a Target 2055 account as well there.

I also hold around $8,000 in General Electric shares that are not in a retirement account and just have reinvesting dividends for now.

Right now I am wondering if I would be better off sticking with the Vanguard account instead of the government's TSP and if I should do index funds instead of the life cycle funds.

I'm also wondering if I should consider moving the money I have in GE into a retirement account or at least an index fund for diversity.

Unless you have a crazy amount in the TSP, that looks like a huge chunk of your retirement is in just one stock. I'd certainly sell and diversify if that were my portfolio.

That reminds me that ~20% of my own retirement is in my previous employer's stock (yay ESPPs). I need to sell before they get attacked by Trump on Twitter :/
 

Mairu

Member
The three Vanguard funds and the Black Rock international fund are your best bets if you don't mind a small amount of self-administration. (And based on a cursory search, it appears that the Putnam target date funds carry a high expense ratio.) To use the Vanguard funds to replicate your prior total stock allocation, split your domestic holdings roughly 8 parts in the 500 fund, 2 parts in the mid cap fund, and 1 part small cap. If this was on 100%, it would look something like 73/18/9. The Black Rock fund would be my choice for international due to the strategy and low expense. Choose whatever portion of your holdings you want to be international, common recommendations range from 20 to as much as 40 percent (I'm actually lower than 20, but Vanguard likes 40). Whatever you do, scale back your domestic percentages accordingly, maintaining the ratios between each class.

I don't know about your bond choices, but WACSX also carries a higher expense than I'd like to see, though it's not nearly as bad as what I saw for the Putnam target funds. This is again another point where if you want to hold bonds, you choose the allocation you want (even target date funds with long horizons seem to start with 10% and ratchet up the number as the year draws closer) and again scale back your domestic and international allocations in proper amounts.

Thanks, this is super helpful! Not sure if I want to disregard international in my 401k (I have an allocation in my IRA at least) but I'll likely disregard any allocation towards bonds.
 

WoodWERD

Member
That said, now might be a good time to sit down, and not market time, but seriously consider what your risk tolerance is and how much you should allocate to bonds. Not because I'm predicting the market will go one way or another, but because it seems pretty reasonable to expect that volatility will increase in a Trump presidency. Certainly don't be holding individual stocks while Trump is still on Twitter.

Speaking of bonds, what is a good bond index fund to hold long term? Looking at VBILX, VICSX, VBLTX and VBTLX primarily, but I'm also seeing articles recommending short term bonds too.
 
That said, now might be a good time to sit down, and not market time, but seriously consider what your risk tolerance is and how much you should allocate to bonds. Not because I'm predicting the market will go one way or another, but because it seems pretty reasonable to expect that volatility will increase in a Trump presidency. Certainly don't be holding individual stocks while Trump is still on Twitter.

Just hold the individual stocks GS, BAC, AMZN, XOM, TSLA, and you'll be fine.

I'm not even sure if I can qualify this with a lol
 

zulux21

Member
so how crazy of an idea would it be, if I think the US dollar is going to take a serious hit over the next few years. to invest in a foreign market such as oh maybe Australia?

and if it isn't super crazy, what would be the best way to do so?
 

tokkun

Member
so how crazy of an idea would it be, if I think the US dollar is going to take a serious hit over the next few years. to invest in a foreign market such as oh maybe Australia?

and if it isn't super crazy, what would be the best way to do so?

1. Standard advice: don't try to time the market. I wouldn't make an investment on the assumption that something is going to happen "in the next few years". Retirement investing is more in the 10, 20 30-year time horizons. So I wouldn't advise taking a position that you are not comfortable holding for a long period.

2. Is the idea itself super crazy? Not really. The USD has been high against most currencies for the last 2 years (including AUD). It's not unreasonable to think a mean reversion will occur at some point (though not guaranteed). Now personally, if I wanted to bet against the USD, I would go with a broader international index like VXUS rather than just going with Australia for diversification purposes. I understand why Australia looks a lot more attractive for someone looking at past performance, but chasing gains like that is dangerous. Australia is also only about 2% of the world market and not a particularly diversified economy, so it is a risky move.

3. Getting USD exposure is actually quite easy. All you have to do is buy any international mutual fund / ETF that is not currency-hedged, and non-hedged is typically the default option.

So for instance, you could just buy this:
https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239607/ishares-msci-australia-etf

However I think it's more in-line with retirement investing fundamentals to go with a Total International fund like VXUS instead.

I should add that any stock-based fund - even un-hedged - is not going to be totally tied to its native currency. For cap-weighted funds, the majority of your investment will be in large cap companies, and they tend to be international companies that themselves have foreign currency exposure. What I mean is that if the USD weakens, that will help profitability for companies like Apple or Alphabet that make a lot of money outside the US. Conversely, a weakening USD will hurt foreign companies making a lot of their sales in the US.
 

Zips

Member
So because of some unbelievable incompetence at my bank, which made them struggle to fulfill my fund transfer request for months on end, the index funds I wanted to put the money in are now up by something like 10% over what they were at when I wanted to invest. Because of the amount that I had been waiting on to transfer, that makes my money effectively worth about $3,000 less than it was.

I had wanted to invest the money prior to the election, for an idea of how long this bank had been fucking up. I know there's no real timing the market, but I hate the thought of just buying in now when it will get me 10% less than it was supposed to. Should I just eat the difference? I don't see much choice, unless the market is expected to go back down anytime soon...

The bank gave me like $150 as an apology for fucking up so badly, but that's just a drop in the bucket...
 

wolfhowwl

Banned
Is the government matching anything with your TSP contribution? If so, keep doing it. If not, is your combined IRA and TSP contribution more than the individual IRA limit? Again, if so, keep doing it. As far as a total market and similar index funds (I'm assuming that's your consideration) or doing the target funds, that's up to you and how aggressive you want to be or how active you want to be in managing your allocations (you wouldn't be incredibly active, but it's certainly more involvement than just parking it in a target). If you don't want to think about it, do target. If you want to take a more or less aggressive approach, perhaps manage it yourself, and you can still look to the target funds' allocations for a rough guide even if you intend to deviate.

For the GE holdings, I recommend selling and investing in index funds unless this is just play money. Spread your risk around.

Unless you have a crazy amount in the TSP, that looks like a huge chunk of your retirement is in just one stock. I'd certainly sell and diversify if that were my portfolio.

That reminds me that ~20% of my own retirement is in my previous employer's stock (yay ESPPs). I need to sell before they get attacked by Trump on Twitter :/

Thanks. Unfortunately since the TSP is through the Army it does not currently match.

I agree on the GE stock and I'll be looking to diversify.
 
So because of some unbelievable incompetence at my bank, which made them struggle to fulfill my fund transfer request for months on end, the index funds I wanted to put the money in are now up by something like 10% over what they were at when I wanted to invest. .... I know there's no real timing the market, but I hate the thought of just buying in now when it will get me 10% less than it was supposed to. Should I just eat the difference? I don't see much choice, unless the market is expected to go back down anytime soon...

Your bank sucks, consider ditching them.

Invest now.
 

Zips

Member
Your bank sucks, consider ditching them.

Invest now.

It was particular reps of a section that is under the same umbrella, but not actually the same company. They pretended to know what they were doing, but kept making mistakes I had to clear up myself, after discovering each time that they had messed up.

The actual investment company has been fine. It's the extended Corp under the umbrella that was stupid. After all this time to get it finished I'm not going to turn around and switch it back. Maybe later, if the investment corporation pisses me off too. I will never use the regular bank side of the organization because of this though, that's for sure.

I'll see if I can get any more from them, because that was just insanely stupid.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
It was particular reps of a section that is under the same umbrella, but not actually the same company. They pretended to know what they were doing, but kept making mistakes I had to clear up myself, after discovering each time that they had messed up.

The actual investment company has been fine. It's the extended Corp under the umbrella that was stupid. After all this time to get it finished I'm not going to turn around and switch it back. Maybe later, if the investment corporation pisses me off too. I will never use the regular bank side of the organization because of this though, that's for sure.

I'll see if I can get any more from them, because that was just insanely stupid.

I'd drop them like a rock and just invest directly through Fidelity or Vanguard. There's no reason to have a middleman like a bank, especially one that fucks up that badly.
 
It was particular reps of a section that is under the same umbrella, but not actually the same company. They pretended to know what they were doing, but kept making mistakes I had to clear up myself, after discovering each time that they had messed up.

The actual investment company has been fine. It's the extended Corp under the umbrella that was stupid. After all this time to get it finished I'm not going to turn around and switch it back. Maybe later, if the investment corporation pisses me off too. I will never use the regular bank side of the organization because of this though, that's for sure.

I'll see if I can get any more from them, because that was just insanely stupid.
No reason to put up with this, and no guarantee it won't happen again. Switch your investments to a different firm, so you can handle them yourself directly.

Either that, or they have to come up with a real good offer now when you call them up to close your account.
 

Zips

Member
I'd drop them like a rock and just invest directly through Fidelity or Vanguard. There's no reason to have a middleman like a bank, especially one that fucks up that badly.

No reason to put up with this, and no guarantee it won't happen again. Switch your investments to a different firm, so you can handle them yourself directly.

Either that, or they have to come up with a real good offer now when you call them up to close your account.

It is a direct investment account, so I do have control over it now and no longer have to deal with anyone else. The trouble was with transferring money from my other bank account.

This bank's investment branch and regular banking branch operate as separate corporations under the same umbrella. The stupidity arose from that supposedly you can use branches of the regular bank to submit things like transfer requests with, so I tried using a local branch. The problem was that though they say you can use a regular branch to submit paperwork like that, it's outside of the common duties of the workers there so it turns out they don't know shit about it. The woman there I got paired with kept submitting things improperly despite the direct investment wing sending instructions with the forms to complete. I would wait for the process to happen, as I was told it could take weeks, and I was busy at work, and then after seeing nothing had happened I had to call and found things like: a field had not been entered correctly by the staffwoman, she had not actually submitted the request, and then again when the manager switched the person handling it to someone else I called again and was told he had never pressed submit at the end of the request form page (though the brqnch manager denied this other guy would make such a stupid mistake, it was never confirmed what went wrong).

Right now my main concern is to get my investments arranged how I wanted to get done months ago. Then I can threaten to leave if I don't get compensated.

They have already tried to set out the defense that it wasn't the investment side's fault, because all the screwups were by the banking side. The banking side deflects and tries to downplay fault by claiming that I could have invested it while waiting for the transfer to happen (this ignores that the money was not in an direct investment account and so I couldn't put it in what I wanted, and implies that I should have assumed they were incompetent), and that I only "think" it cost me money because the market is unpredictable or whatever - which is bullshit because this is retirement savings and as I was delayed for so long I am now buying in at a decently higher price point.

I will talk to the investment side again first. If/when they try to shift blame to the banking side again I will point out that they are the ones that allow the banking side to act in the capacity that they are clearly inept at doing, and threaten to just move my now calibrated investments to another company.

But you guys all agree to otherwise buy in now at current prices? I'm looking at the Vanguard stuff by that couch potato site.
 

tokkun

Member
Anybody use Personal Capital? Do you like it for tracking your finances?

I like it. I have been using it daily for the better part of a year. It was a little weird at first handing over the passwords to all of my financial accounts, but it is really convenient and useful to have all that information in one place, both from a time-savings and analysis perspective. There is one thing that holds me back from making an unconditional recommendation: Past research into investor behavior has shown that for the average person, checking the performance of your investments frequently will result in worse performance in the long run (since people's natural instincts lead them to buy high and sell low). The main landing page for Personal Capital will show you the daily performance of each asset in your investment portfolio, so you have to be conscious about not letting that information influence your decisions. I wish they had the option to hide that particular panel.

Other than that, I like the UI (clean, but still information-rich), and once you set everything up, it doesn't require any more effort unless you open a new account. It was initially missing support for one of my credit cards and my HSA provider, but as of today, every account I have is supported. It's a lot less effort than using a spreadsheet to track this stuff. The one thing it still does not handle seemlessly is stock-based compensation. If part of your pay comes from RSUs or options, you have to manually enter all the grant details if you want it to show up.

Compared to other options like Mint or YNAB, it is more geared toward wealth management and tracking your investments rather than on monthly budgeting. Personal Capital has its own active management service that it will try to sell you, but they are not overly pushy about it. If you don't want to get any calls from them, use a fake phone number when you sign up.
 

UraMallas

Member
My mom is retiring at the end of the year at 62. She has a pretty good sum (it's just her and then me) but she's not great with money and I'm only a bit better. I wanted to get a good retirement book that tells you what to do for the last run-up to retirement and then we can both read a copy of it and go over it and plan for her.

Recommendation? Preferably Kindle.
 
My mom is retiring at the end of the year at 62. She has a pretty good sum (it's just her and then me) but she's not great with money and I'm only a bit better. I wanted to get a good retirement book that tells you what to do for the last run-up to retirement and then we can both read a copy of it and go over it and plan for her.

Recommendation? Preferably Kindle.

No recommendations for books, but given she's retiring this year and while you're figuring it out, I suggest moving the funds to one of the following:

Vanguard Target Retirement Income (VTINX) - Most conservative at this point (30/70 stocks/bonds)
Vanguard Target 2015 (VTXVX) - A little more stock (45.5/54.5)
Vanguard Target 2020 (VTWNX) - Still more stock (56.6/43.4)

2015 is recommended for those retiring from 2013-2017, and she's on the tail end of that range. 2020 would be the next choice, for those retiring 2018-2022. 2015 would gradually shift more and more into bonds until it matches the Retirement Income fund by 2022, according to its page linked above, and the 2020 fund would follow the same pattern a few years later.

Frankly, this may also be a time you also want to consult with a planner if you have any questions whether the money will last and what options might be available, particularly from a budget perspective, to ensure that they do.
 
It's a TIAA CREFF plan. She works for the state. Should I see if that is available to her?

If not those, then similar funds should be available in her plan, hopefully with similarly low expenses, though target funds may vary by provider. (If the expenses are bad, she can roll them over into an IRA once she retires.)
 

UraMallas

Member
If not those, then similar funds should be available in her plan, hopefully with similarly low expenses, though target funds may vary by provider. (If the expenses are bad, she can roll them over into an IRA once she retires.)

Thanks for the advice. She has been talking to an plan advisor at the college and they were trying to tell her to put it in an annuity and I don't think that's a very good idea at all. I'm right in that, correct? She's got about $400k and we live in IA so I would imagine she can make this last for her, but I know annuities have outrageous fees.
 
Thanks for the advice. She has been talking to an plan advisor at the college and they were trying to tell her to put it in an annuity and I don't think that's a very good idea at all. I'm right in that, correct? She's got about $400k and we live in IA so I would imagine she can make this last for her, but I know annuities have outrageous fees.

$400K, using a 4% drawdown model, is going to give her $16K per year to live on before factoring in social security checks (+) and taxes (-). Is that going to be enough? Think about utilities, food, home upkeep (and I hope the home is paid off), and healthcare expenditures and whatever other expenses come to mind. If this is not going to be enough, she may need to continue working.
 

DrMungo

Member
I have a IRA, and 401K that is mostly based on index funds (Vanguard, fidelity)
Is there a model that is even safer and immune to volatility? (will be be something like mostly Bonds?)
 
I have a IRA, and 401K that is mostly based on index funds (Vanguard, fidelity)
Is there a model that is even safer and immune to volatility? (will be be something like mostly Bonds?)

That would also be something more immune to growth. If you're 25, 30 years out from retirement, you need to be in stocks, near term volatility is irrelevant to you. If you're 5, 10 years out, then it's a different mindset.

Perhaps target date fund would be more appropriate for you. They include a bond component that gradually increases as a share as you draw closer to retirement. Let them take care of transition for you.
 

tokkun

Member
My mom is retiring at the end of the year at 62. She has a pretty good sum (it's just her and then me) but she's not great with money and I'm only a bit better. I wanted to get a good retirement book that tells you what to do for the last run-up to retirement and then we can both read a copy of it and go over it and plan for her.

Recommendation? Preferably Kindle.

One of the biggest things you need to consider in that situation is when to start taking Social Security benefits. If she starts taking them at 62, her benefits will be a lot lower than if she waits until 66.

Since Social Security (at least as of today) is a defined benefit that lasts for the rest of your life, locking in a larger value can make a really big difference if you live a long time, so it particularly benefits people who are in good health to delay claiming their benefit.

More info here:
http://www.investopedia.com/article...16/tips-delaying-social-security-benefits.asp
 
Thanks for the advice. She has been talking to an plan advisor at the college and they were trying to tell her to put it in an annuity and I don't think that's a very good idea at all. I'm right in that, correct? She's got about $400k and we live in IA so I would imagine she can make this last for her, but I know annuities have outrageous fees.

If I were her I would run, not walk, from any salesperson (which is what they are) pushing an annuity because they're far more interested in a huge commission than they are actually looking out for her interests. There's some isolated cases where they can be good but not nearly to the extent they're sold. You should locate someone that is held to a fiduciary standard if she needs financial advise, because they're required to actually put their clients interests first and I doubt annuities will come up in the discussion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/feeonlyplanner/2015/07/15/annuities-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#ef75eb42913d
 

UraMallas

Member
Great info in here guys, thanks a lot. I doubt the figure you stated is going to be enough but I'll let her know the figures and see what she says. I think she's set on retiring.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
Once thing that's kind of frowned upon/looked down upon but that's been very good to me is BtI - borrowing to invest. I'm thankful to my financial advisor for alerting me to that, even though I kind of hate him for convincing me to go for critical illness insurance, that I really didn't want/need... and i'm 50/50 on life insurance.

My BtI had an average return of 8.47% for the year and I'm paying 3.7% interest on the loan. That's >% on money that wasn't even mine and money I basically made out of nothing.

I've had it since the end of 2013 and had, after interest-payments, the following returns:

2014: 11.3%
2015: 0.3%
2016: 4.7%

in comparison, my ETF's with my own money made:

2014: 15%
2015: 11%
2016: 4%

(I think my ETF is lagging because the huge drop that happened end of 2015 somehow didn't happen for me until 2016, so I have an inverse with the index that did badly in 2015 but really well in 2016. doesn't really matter either way)
 

ascii42

Member
Once thing that's kind of frowned upon/looked down upon but that's been very good to me is BtI - borrowing to invest. I'm thankful to my financial advisor for alerting me to that, even though I kind of hate him for convincing me to go for critical illness insurance, that I really didn't want/need... and i'm 50/50 on life insurance.

My BtI had an average return of 8.47% for the year and I'm paying 3.7% interest on the loan. That's >5% on money that wasn't even mine and money I basically made out of nothing.

I suppose the logic for that isn't really any different for deciding whether to make extra payments on a low interest mortgage or car loan/pay cash upfront or invest the money instead.
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
I suppose the logic for that isn't really any different for deciding whether to make extra payments on a low interest mortgage or car loan/pay cash upfront or invest the money instead.

correct, pretty much the same logic. Only when you're already in debt you have to decide between low interest mortgage and investing, when you're not in debt you're deciding between... BOTH a low interest mortgage AND an investment or neither. :D


but basically i'm betting on the market doing better than 3.7% each year. The "risk" being that even when the market turns sour I'll still have to make payments which might create a strain on my cash flow. But if i was at the risk that it would I probably wouldn't have invested.
 
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