They should disable stamina drain when running once the enemy stops pursuing you. That'd be ideal.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I love how items and resources have real value in Zelda: BotW
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
It's probably in the -blin family. It's probably a Purpablin or Mokablin or something.
TheMoon
Member
See, that's a well reasoned argument. It's the childish yelling and cursing in the video that put me off immediately. Can't stand stuff like that anymore.^^
Technically there's three. What usually are Stalchildren are now Stalbokoblin. Maybe there'll be different types of Stal~ enemies (in addition to proper main Stalfos).
Also, in terms of Bokoblins vs. Moblins, both existed in Wind Waker. They're not mutually exclusive concepts.
TP also had Bokoblins and Bulblins (which might as well have been Moblins). So there's often multiple kinds of ~lins
Haha, I'd love for it to be named a Purpablin!
This is what makes me nervous. Instead of Stalfos we'll get Stalbokoblins. Instead of ReDeads we'll get ReBokoblins. Instead of Iron Knuckles, we'll get Iron Bokoblins.
I'm getting the jitters just thinking about it. It feels lazy.
I understand they did it in SS because they couldn't figure out how to make different types of enemies with the motion control combat. But they have no excuse now.
TheMoon
Member
Punchy4486
Banned
I was complaining on the playground in 1987 that Mario should have blue overalls, because who owns red overalls? It didn't make any sense!
You're welcome for the icon of console gaming, Nintendo!
that is legitimately prescient
Snoblin.
edit: I made you something
Nooooo!
I'd take any enemy type over this! I'm getting bad SS flashbacks!
TheMoon
Member
I love how when your weapons no longer have any use you can just chuck em into the face of those unfortunate enough to be within range. Makes saying goodbye to your hammer feel satisfying.
Best thing about it is that it's encouraged by the fact that it always gives you a crit when you do it!
Weltall Zero
Member
I wholeheartedly agree (as I usually do with Neiteio). It's funny how many games mess this up, even games that I otherwise love completely miss the point when it comes to making items on the world desirable. I'm currently playing Te Witcher 3 and I'm pretty sick of picking up a million herbs that I can't use because I know no recipes that use them. The fact that there's so many, they aren't immediately useful, yet I'm compelled to pick them in case I need them in the future makes gathering them a literal chore. Time and again, for different reasons, make picking items unfun. Typically they cause one of more of these annoyances:
BotW seems to avoid all these of the above. Items are not exceedingly numerous, plus they break down eventually so they need resupplying. Items that look the same seem to have the same stats, and there aren't a lot of different weapons, differing more by properties (moves, flammability, etc.) than stats. Most importantly, as the OP states, food becomes a much more desirable commodity since it's the only way to heal, yet again there aren't so many different ingredients that the player ends up stocking them all and not knowing what each of them does. Best of all, each is gathered from a different place (smoking out bees to get beehives, getting apples from trees, meat from animals, fish from, well, fish), so you can have agency in what kind of food you want to gather. And best of all, it seems to be very fun to do all of the above.
- Individual items aren't terribly useful / don't make much of a difference.
- Items are very numerous in the world, quickly dilluting the excitement from obtaining them.
- Limited inventory space requiring management (or in the worst cases, returning to a town).
- Items (typically equipment) require menu interaction to even check if they're useful (improve your stats), completely breaking game flow.
- Items take time to gather (cough MMOs and Monster Hunter).
BotW seems to avoid all these of the above. Items are not exceedingly numerous, plus they break down eventually so they need resupplying. Items that look the same seem to have the same stats, and there aren't a lot of different weapons, differing more by properties (moves, flammability, etc.) than stats. Most importantly, as the OP states, food becomes a much more desirable commodity since it's the only way to heal, yet again there aren't so many different ingredients that the player ends up stocking them all and not knowing what each of them does. Best of all, each is gathered from a different place (smoking out bees to get beehives, getting apples from trees, meat from animals, fish from, well, fish), so you can have agency in what kind of food you want to gather. And best of all, it seems to be very fun to do all of the above.
Best thing about it is that it's encouraged by the fact that it always gives you a crit when you do it!
So true!
Gonna go on an RE4 villager style run. Nothing but pitchforks, torches and axes to the face.
Great points, but it was stated on stream that items with the same name can have different stats. Just letting ya know.
The loot and gathering stuff was the least promising and most troubling stuff of the showing imo. Really need to know more about what you find in dungeons, better gear, and the economy before I could get excited by it. As it stands, with respect to weapons, it just seems to make what used to be unique and special things in Zelda into generic drops and TES-esque loot. Meanwhile, food gathering, cooking, and healing doesn't really light my fire at all. Obviously the demo was limited and Nintendo is tight-lipped about more advanced stages of the game than the first wanderings on the plateau, but I'm not ready to take it for granted that this stuff is implemented well and in keeping with Zelda. Hopefully, Nintendo will convince me otherwise sooner rather than later.
hmmm kinda torn on this. So is the consensus is that you have all or maybe all except 1 key item from the start of the game? Zelda and many games are built around the idea of acquiring new items and abilities. You know, it whats keeps you driven to still play. Is this sense of exploration and discovery now just regulated to regular loot. General weapons and armor, and upgrade items? I have a hard time believing, there wont be a hookshot, lantern, boomerang, net, wind rod, sling shot?, magical items, big hammer, or whatever new ideas they think up, to find later in the game.
Unless a lot of these will just be regulated to being in the general weapon slot.
Or maybe they had all these items unlocked from the start for demo purposes?
I would've called people crazy that wanted a open-world Zelda with meaningful resources and the like. I wanted it too but back then I thought Nintendo would be too stubborn to go that route but I'm glad to know that has changed and they're doing everything I wanted and more.
I love that the world itself looks so fun to explore and move around in. It reminds me of toy dioramas like Mighty Max or Lego sets where you can observe, look and see hidden details. And most video games I find don't really replicate that with a few exceptions with BotW being one.
It also avoids a common open-world problem that's rampant in Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Ubisoft games: Map markers for areas and missions. So many it's overwhelming and feels like you're going through a checklist. BotW avoids this by doing three things: Except for very important things there are no map markers automatically, next is that you have to mark them yourself and three they made things pop out and interesting enough to catch your eye and compel you to check it out.
I love that the world itself looks so fun to explore and move around in. It reminds me of toy dioramas like Mighty Max or Lego sets where you can observe, look and see hidden details. And most video games I find don't really replicate that with a few exceptions with BotW being one.
It also avoids a common open-world problem that's rampant in Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Ubisoft games: Map markers for areas and missions. So many it's overwhelming and feels like you're going through a checklist. BotW avoids this by doing three things: Except for very important things there are no map markers automatically, next is that you have to mark them yourself and three they made things pop out and interesting enough to catch your eye and compel you to check it out.
I can't remember exactly the moment but in the Treehouse they said the the "get the four orbs hidden in the Plateau's Shrines to get the paraglide and advance" was a modification made for the E3 demo (maybe in order to avoid anyone to leave the Plateau since the demos were time limited) and that in the final game the orbs are used for a different thing, so maybe the Old Man will give you the Paraglide right away when you first meet him or when you get to the first Resurrection Tower and can go exploring out of the Plateau.
That way Aonuma declaring that you can go straight to the final boss would make more sense that if you need to spend a couple of hours doing those four Shrines. Aonuma also said to some journalists that Link can get to the first real dungeon about after an hour or so, so that rules out the idea or being trapped in the Plateau until you complete the Shrines.
Other thing that I'm thinking about is what other powers/runes we'll find in the Shrines. Maybe some of the ones we saw at E3 are really located in different placements so we don't get the Magnesis/Bombs/Stasis/Cryo until we reach other areas of Hyrule. Maybe in later Shrines we'll get upgraded versions of those runes, like reducing the cooldown time for bombs for example... Or make upgrades to other equipment like in ALttP...
theSlacker
Member
I remember them saying the same thing but thought it was odd in the context of what they showed. The only thing that even mentioned it being a reward from getting the 4 spirit orbs ever shown was dialog with the old man that was skipped through/you had to freeze on every frame to actually read it. There was even multiple choices in that dialog that had their own responses (one of them had Link mentioning that that wasn't the deal, referencing another conversation that was also shown where the old man said he just needed to get the treasure from one shrine for the trade). I don't think any of this was possible to get through in the time limits of the demos on the floor either.
What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if it was still the way to get the paraglider in the full game even with that comment, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it was changed before then either.
kinaesthete
Member
We have a good idea of how individual enemy encounters, environmental obstacles, and how the item churn works in the circular Plateau area so far. Your objective there is to weave a non-linear path through a condensed area to visit each shrine, so I'm curious how these mechanics will work when your objective is going from A to B over a much larger distance? In the demo you could collect viable weapons from every enemy encounter for you to use on the next one, but other expendable items only seemed useful for healing after making a mistake or staying safe in an environment you don't have the right clothes for (Mt. Hylia). How is the system going to stay interesting outside of item churn from fights, especially since it looks like most of them are completely avoidable? There are probably orders of magnitude more items and more uses for them than were shown at E3, but what was shown didn't suggest that the system would be all that versatile for longer stretches between safe areas.
Who knows what they've come up with but it would be great to see more items with functionality like the axe or the leaf, things that are useful in combat as well as solving traversal problems, and hopefully some of those are unique to a biome! Maybe instead of getting flippers (or perhaps holding off on getting them as a perma-upgrade) you find plants that increase water stamina and allow for diving temporarily or some kinda steroid plant that temporarily increases damage but also lets Link push heavier rocks?
Who knows what they've come up with but it would be great to see more items with functionality like the axe or the leaf, things that are useful in combat as well as solving traversal problems, and hopefully some of those are unique to a biome! Maybe instead of getting flippers (or perhaps holding off on getting them as a perma-upgrade) you find plants that increase water stamina and allow for diving temporarily or some kinda steroid plant that temporarily increases damage but also lets Link push heavier rocks?
Could be, I also wonder if there will be armor\clothes that give you effects like that(simliar to how different clothes provide warmth). Like swap out gloves that let you pick up large rocks, swap out boots that let you fly, walk under water, or run at super speed, etc.
I love how when your weapons no longer have any use you can just chuck em into the face of those unfortunate enough to be within range. Makes saying goodbye to your hammer feel satisfying.
I awlays love your gifs since XCX threads ^^
Starving: no
Freezing: probably since there is a temperature "feature" but we didn't witnessed it yet it any video. All streamers didn't wanted to die like that, lol
Something else worth noting is how the survival elements allow you to tailor the difficulty to your liking.
Are your enemies defeated too easily? Use weapons that are weaker or more fragile!
Are your enemies barely damaging you? Wear lighter gear, or no gear at all!
Want a real challenge? Limit yourself to only one or two meals!
You could even challenge yourself to traverse cold areas entirely with campfires, torches, and elixirs that boost your internal body temperature — no quilted clothes for real heroes!
It'll be fun to come up with special runs for subsequent playthroughs.
Same with Twilight Princess!! Don't want to get by scot-free? Don't pick any heart containers up! Enemies too easy? Never cut any grass! Adventure too formulaic? Stop playing and go outside!!
lol, I know you jest, but it'd be legit challenging to do this in TP since hearts practically come from all directions in that game
(although I suppose they added a hero mode, no?)
Yeah boi hardest game in the series
If anything, I could see them doing, that it will just take you down to 1 hear or half. But wont kill you outright. Or maybe it severely reduces your stamina.
Aw, thanks dude.
I'm really interested in the durability system. In a way it makes the game play kind of like a level-based game, but with enough suspension between encounters to make players think about how these individual levels connect to the world at large. Like Mario Bros (specifically Mario 3 and others like it). You have your current supplies. You enter into a fight or any other gameplay heavy segment. Then during that fight/segment any number of things could happen resulting in any number of gains or losses. Then when that fight/segment is over, you may come out of it with the same things you went into it with, or you may come out of it with more, or less, or anything in between. Enter 2-2 with a fire flower. Get hit and lose it. Find a hidden star. Find a mushroom. Get hit again. Finish the level as small mario and enter the next level in a weaker state. But of course you may have items in the back that you didn't use and can pull out next time. But those can be gained and lost just as quickly.
Combine that with throwing weapons, breakage causing critical hits, limited inventory, being able to use seemingly any weapon, and your abilities to manipulate the world, and you have something pretty interesting, easily manageable, and (possibly) balanced enough to make even normally trivial battles more engaging than they would be otherwise.
It might not work in the end, but I think it's clever, and definitely a worthwhile experiment over just having a normal system.
Combine that with throwing weapons, breakage causing critical hits, limited inventory, being able to use seemingly any weapon, and your abilities to manipulate the world, and you have something pretty interesting, easily manageable, and (possibly) balanced enough to make even normally trivial battles more engaging than they would be otherwise.
It might not work in the end, but I think it's clever, and definitely a worthwhile experiment over just having a normal system.
Is there any comprehensive list out there of all the animals, food, and crafting items found on the Great Plateau?
Off the top of my head (and the names may be wrong):
- Birds
- Bird meat
- Boars
- Raw Steak
- Seared Steak
- Squirrels
- Acorns
- Lizards
- Crickets
- Butterflies
- Fireflies
- Frogs
- Fish
- Hylian Herbs
- Hylian Shrooms
- Rushrooms
- Stamnella Shrooms
- Hearty Truffles
- Nightshade
- Peppers
- Apples
- Baked Apples
- Bokoblin Fang
- Bokoblin Horn
- Chuchu Jelly (Blue, White)
- Keese Eyeball
- Keese Wing
- Opal
- Flintrock
- Amber
- Beehive
- Branch
- Firewood
Off the top of my head (and the names may be wrong):
- Birds
- Bird meat
- Boars
- Raw Steak
- Seared Steak
- Squirrels
- Acorns
- Lizards
- Crickets
- Butterflies
- Fireflies
- Frogs
- Fish
- Hylian Herbs
- Hylian Shrooms
- Rushrooms
- Stamnella Shrooms
- Hearty Truffles
- Nightshade
- Peppers
- Apples
- Baked Apples
- Bokoblin Fang
- Bokoblin Horn
- Chuchu Jelly (Blue, White)
- Keese Eyeball
- Keese Wing
- Opal
- Flintrock
- Amber
- Beehive
- Branch
- Firewood
Were ducks on the Great Plateau?
I also remember seeing Silent Shrooms and then there are Torches, but I don't know if you can craft with them or not. (I hope so! I want a poison torch to throw in a cave and smoke some Bokoblins out!)
You forgot most of the rare gems: ruby, sapphire, topaz (also, I think we can expect thunder arrows to be in the game, since the Topaz is said to have lightning effects). I also recall seeing one more type of mushroom and one more type of herb, but can't really remember the names. You forgot Rock Salt as well.
Actually, I just checked Zelda Wiki, they have a somewhat complete list there: http://zeldawiki.org/Material
You missed: Acorn, Ancient Spring, Ancient Screw, Bokoblin Liver (never saw this before, seems there will be rare drops), Endura Shroom, Hearty Radish, Ice Keese Wing, Ruby, Sapphire, Silent Shroom, Topaz.
Weltall Zero
Member
Better yet, they puff into several pieces of meat. How ridiculous it is when you kill a boar or a stag and you can at best carve a single steak that you consume in a second? Just today playing Witcher 3 (on Blood and Broken Bones, so I need food desperately) I hunted a deer and it dropped... deer pelt. What, it was a meatless deer?
And another gripe I have with the Witcher 3. There's a metric fuckton of different herbs, so 90% of the time I have no clue which potions use which, and hence I can't be proactive in gathering the ones I need. In BotW each item, besides being obtained in a different way, has a specific effect that persists even when combined with others, so you always know what you need to, say, increase stamina or stay in the cold without freezing.
TheMoon
Member
yes, they did of course.