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"I Need a New PC!" 2014 Part 2. Read OP, your 2500K will run Witcher 3. MX100s! 970!

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RGM79

Member
Samsung 840 EVO 500GB for $189 or Crucial MX100 512GB for $189? Any major difference performance wise?

Right now I've got a WD Caviar Black 750GB as my main storage drive with a 840 EVO 256GB with the OS and apps, but I'm finding thats getting more crammed with stuff as time has gone on and I end up downloading more games but not deleting them.

They're both excellent SSDs. If you do get it, then what I recommend is that you do a little work and manage your program installations. You can keep your OS on the 250GB Evo and not reinstall. Install the 500GB Evo in there and use it exclusively as a drive for games that you definitely want a speed boost on. Keep applications (web browser, image editor, etc) that you want a speed boost for on the 250 GB Evo. Everything else is installed or kept on the 750GB WD Black, stuff that you don't need high speed access for (programs like Office, media, etc).

I'm planning on a new PC early next year, been running a dual core 8600 since 2009 and tided myself over with a graphics card upgrade to a 6950 a couple of years ago. Money is an object (£1500 is my upmost limit for budget and I'd like to spend £250ish of that on a new monitor), but I'd rather spend more now than spend less and then in a couple of years feel like I should have bit the bullet on a more than 4 core cpu. There seems to be overall very little interest in >4 core chips in this thread. I'm deciding on whether to build around a 5820K or 4690K. Any advice to help me make up my mind would be much appreciated.

X99 platform comes with the more expensive cost of DDR4 ram. You didn't say what the computer would be for, but for gaming the 5820K won't actually be that much more effective than the Z97 and 4690K/4790K, according to these benchmarks. Given the benchmarking results there, the difference in frame rate is extremely minor for the added cost of hundreds of pounds. - 5 to 10% frame rate difference.

Your budget could be enough for X99 (I'm not that knowledgable about UK pricing, PC parts product pricing in the UK seems to be more expensive after currency conversion) but the 4790K should serve you well and be more than enough to handle most tasks.

That said, what do you intend to use the computer for?

Edit: I'll rephrase.

I'm designing a rig for my cousin.

This is what I'm looking at so far:

Case: Fractal Design Core 1000
CPU: Intel Pentium G3258
Motherboard: ASRock B85M
RAM: Kingston HyperX Fury 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB)
GPU: EVGA GTX 750 Ti
Power Supply: Antec VP450
Storage: Western Digital Black 1TB 7200RPM

Current Specs: None
Budget: Roughly $500.
Main Use: Gaming
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080
Specific Games: Civ: Beyond Earth, Wasteland 2 - 1080p, 30fps
Timeframe: Over the next couple months, looking for sales from Black Friday through January.
Overclocking: Ideally.

After the initial build, he may be able to do things like slot in a better CPU and GPU over time. He already has the case, so that's why I was trying to find a CPU fan in the original version of the post. PCPartPicker says the much loved Cooler Master 212 Evo isn't compatible with that case, so I'm mainly looking for a fan recommendation. If the case is uniformly terrible and I should tell him to return the case and pick something else in the MicroATX space, please voice your opinion.

The parts look alright. You can link your PCPartPicker build here with the "permalink" or the "export/markup" links.

Is that Fractal case the older model or the newer version with USB 3.0? Your motherboard has header for USB 3.0, so it might be nice to get front USB 3.0 ports without having to reach around to the back. Good call on that power supply, it's extremely low priced after rebate but has one good review stating how it's unexpected high quality.

For mATX cases that fit the 212 Evo (159mm tall), there's the Cooler Master N200 for $40 or the more premium-looking Corsair 350D for $60. Both are said to support CPU coolers up to 160mm, and there are multiple reports from owners of both cases that the 212 Evo fits their case.
 

Lunar15

Member
So, I've got some old DDR3 1600 (4x2) ram that I was hoping I could just carry over to my new rig, but since I got that big deal on the i7 and jumped on it, the ram is going to be a severe bottleneck. The build guides recommend 1866+ for haswell.

That's a 100+ I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend.
 

RGM79

Member
So, I've got some old DDR3 1600 (4x2) ram that I was hoping I could just carry over to my new rig, but since I got that big deal on the i7 and jumped on it, the ram is going to be a severe bottleneck. The build guides recommend 1866+ for haswell.

That's a 100+ I was hoping I wouldn't have to spend.

You can use that RAM. High speed RAM is recommended, but not required. How much of an impact there is will be related to the programs and games you use. This Anandtech test shows that improved memory speed amounts to a 5% difference in the tested games. Of course, there are other applications that can make use of higher speed memory (Battlefield, or media production and computational tasks) but if you already have 8GB of DDR3-1600, it's totally understandable to not want to shell out $137 for high speed RAM.

Hey guys I need some advice on my build.


Any thoughts are much appreciated.

That link doesn't work. It's saved on your account and either isn't shareable or is set to private or something.

A screenshot will do, or you can lay out your build in PCPartPicker.

Has anyone tried to install the Team Xtreem LV 16GB DDR3 ram with the Hyper 212 Evo? Do they fit?

Those are extremely tall RAM sticks. It'll be impossible to install in the slot closest to the CPU, while the 2nd most slot might not work. Only the 3rd and 4th slots, farthest from the CPU, will be clear to install in for sure. The problem is that you need to install the sticks in the configuration listed on this page (Dual-channel with two DIMMs) to make it work in dual channel mode for added performance. If you haven't already bought it, I highly recommend the cheaper 16GB Patriot Viper 3 low profile DDR3-2133 for $137, or if you absolutely need DDR3-2400, there's G.Skill Ares low profile DDR3-2400 for $167.
 

Lunar15

Member
You can use that RAM. High speed RAM is recommended, but not required. How much of an impact there is will be related to the programs and games you use. This Anandtech test shows that improved memory speed amounts to a 5% difference in the tested games. Of course, there are other applications that can make use of higher speed memory (Battlefield, or media production and computational tasks) but if you already have 8GB of DDR3-1600, it's totally understandable to not want to shell out $137 for high speed RAM.

At this point I feel like I'd like to move up, you know? Plus, I feel like having my ram in a 4x2GB layout was kinda dumb. It is a 6 year old PC though.

Is that a recommendation there at the end? Seems like a good price.
 

PFD

Member
Those are extremely tall RAM sticks. It'll be impossible to install in the slot closest to the CPU, while the 2nd most slot might not work. Only the 3rd and 4th slots, farthest from the CPU, will be clear to install in for sure. The problem is that you need to install the sticks in the configuration listed on this page (Dual-channel with two DIMMs) to make it work in dual channel mode for added performance. If you haven't already bought it, I highly recommend the cheaper 16GB Patriot Viper 3 low profile DDR3-2133 for $137, or if you absolutely need DDR3-2400, there's G.Skill Ares low profile DDR3-2400 for $167.

Thanks a lot for the tips. I haven't bought them yet.

I think I'm gonna get the Patriots you linked. I'm in Canada, and the G.Skill Ares are over $215 here.

I'll wait and see if any good deals pop up on Cyber Monday
 
The parts look alright. You can link your PCPartPicker build here with the "permalink" or the "export/markup" links.

Is that Fractal case the older model or the newer version with USB 3.0? Your motherboard has header for USB 3.0, so it might be nice to get front USB 3.0 ports without having to reach around to the back. Good call on that power supply, it's extremely low priced after rebate but has one good review stating how it's unexpected high quality.

For mATX cases that fit the 212 Evo (159mm tall), there's the Cooler Master N200 for $40 or the more premium-looking Corsair 350D for $60. Both are said to support CPU coolers up to 160mm, and there are multiple reports from owners of both cases that the 212 Evo fits their case.

Thanks for the help. He may just have to put up with using the Core 1000 he has on hand; it's the newer version with USB 3.0.

Buying a Z97 motherboard so he could even overclock is probably a higher priority than using something besides stock cooling (at first), so he can wait on that. PCPartPicker lists other Cooler Master fans, such as the TX3 or D92, as being compatible with that case and they're similar in price. I'll try to see if he can pick up the power supply while the rebate is available.

Permalink here.
 

RGM79

Member
At this point I feel like I'd like to move up, you know? Plus, I feel like having my ram in a 4x2GB layout was kinda dumb. It is a 6 year old PC though.

Is that a recommendation there at the end? Seems like a good price.
Yeah, that's a thinly veiled suggestion. It's up to you if you want to spend the money for it.

Thanks a lot for the tips. I haven't bought them yet.

I think I'm gonna get the Patriots you linked. I'm in Canada, and the G.Skill Ares are over $215 here.

I'll wait and see if any good deals pop up on Cyber Monday
Heh, I'm Canadian as well, I just default to US parts and prices for recommending to most people here. In Canada, that model of Patriot RAM goes for $168 CAD.

Thanks for the help. He may just have to put up with using the Core 1000 he has on hand; it's the newer version with USB 3.0.

Buying a Z97 motherboard so he could even overclock is probably a higher priority than using something besides stock cooling (at first), so he can wait on that. PCPartPicker lists other Cooler Master fans, such as the TX3 or D92, as being compatible with that case and they're similar in price. I'll try to see if he can pick up the power supply while the rebate is available.

Permalink here.

Actually, Asus, ASrock, Gigabyte and MSI have H81/B85/H87/H97 motherboards that can do overclocking. That includes the ASrock B85M you selected. Just don't expect those motherboards to overclock as well as Z87/Z97 motherboards because they're not built with overclocking and/or only have simple 4 power phase. Some have reported being able to get up to 4.5GHz stably, though. Here's some reference for overclocking the G3258 on non-Z87/Z97 motherboards.

Now that I can see the prices you're paying, there are some suggestions to make:

You can save money on RAM, $80 is expensive. I recommend either of the following two kits.
8GB Team Vulcan DDR3-1600 for $55 - low cost, same speed as the one you selected.
8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1866 for $48 after $10 combo discount with G3258 processor - I think this deal is the best, it's the lowest cost with a Newegg bundle discount.

You can go with a cheaper motherboard. The Asrock H81M-HDS is available for $50 and is reported to allow up to 4.5GHz overclock at 1.3 volts (other mATX motherboards have voltage limits of 1.2V).

You can save $20 by going with WD Caviar Blue for $50 instead of Caviar Black. It's still 7200RPM. Technically the Caviar Black is better, but it's probably just slight improvements and isn't worth the $20 extra.
 
So apparently everyone buys windows 8 keys from reddit?

Do I need an account there, or is there some other site I can use?

Buying keys from Reddit (at least from the once popular sellers) has been banned because those sellers were abusing keys meant for educational use.

Actually, Asus, ASrock, Gigabyte and MSI have H81/B85/H87/H97 motherboards that can do overclocking. That includes the ASrock B85M you selected. Just don't expect those motherboards to overclock as well as Z87/Z97 motherboards because they're not built with overclocking and/or only have simple 4 power phase. Some have reported being able to get up to 4.5GHz stably, though.

Here's some reference for overclocking the G3258 on non-Z87/Z97 motherboards.


Now that I can see the prices you're paying, there are some suggestions to make. You can save money on RAM, $80 is expensive. I recommend either of the following two kits.

8GB Team Vulcan DDR3-1600 for $55 - low cost, same speed as the one you selected.
8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1866 for $48 after $10 combo discount with G3258 processor - I think this deal is the best, it's the lowest cost with a Newegg bundle discount.

Thank you for all your help. I've updated the list with your suggestions. I didn't realize it was possible to overclock outside of the Z97 motherboards either.
 

RGM79

Member
Buying keys from Reddit (at least from the once popular sellers) has been banned because those sellers were abusing keys meant for educational use.



Thank you for all your help. I've updated the list with your suggestions. I didn't realize it was possible to overclock outside of the Z97 motherboards either.

Since I typed that post, I've made some more improvements. To save you the time, I'll just link you my improved build that I based on yours. Even with the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo included, you're saving around $30 off the cost of the original build. The case is still incompatible though, it's up to you if you want to use the money saved for a different case or go even cheaper for now by skipping the 212 Evo.

The only issue is that the motherboard may need a BIOS update before you can use the processor with it. However, that was already an issue with the earlier B85 motherboard you listed, not sure why it wasn't mentioned by PCPartPicker. Whether or not it requires a BIOS update will depend on what the date of manufacture was, and what the details on the motherboard or the side of the box says.

I looked up some details. If you do go with that Asrock H81M-HDS motherboard, then as long as date of manufacture is July 2014 or later, you'll be fine. If it doesn't say, then you can check the sticker on the motherboard and if it says 1.80 or later, you'll be fine.
 

appaws

Banned
For all you who are building small form factor builds, here is a new GPU choice...a Direct CU Mini 970 from Asus. Pretty sweet!

970_3_0.png

Here is the article: http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-...0-DirectCU-Mini-More-Mini-ITX-Gaming-Goodness
 

Miutsu

Member
So I ended up taking the bait with that Samsung 840 evo SSD.. and with that my build is complete.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($96.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($334.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($68.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1150.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-30 00:36 EST-0500

After some promos and discounts, ended up spending total 1028 USD$ (without the RAM because I already had that unopened from 2 years ago) AND I was able to pick better parts without going over the estimated budget (1k).

I'm pretty happy with the build and can't wait to have all the parts give it a test run, this thread has really been a big help, thanks a lot!

Next year 120/144Hz and/or G-Sync Monitor.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Ok, new gaming PC time this Christmas! But I've been out of the system building scene for a while now. I've only had room for gaming laptops before, but my new house has an office so I can finally go back to Desktop gaming.
Basically looking to build a gaming rig that's going to last me a good 3-4 years. Looking to play current games pretty much maxed out of course, might as well go for it right?

The spec I've had some assistance with so far is this,


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.50 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£109.99 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£133.03 @ More Computers)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£127.19 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate SV35.5 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£69.68 @ CCL Computers)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card (£265.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case (£62.87 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£118.04 @ CCL Computers)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (£11.89 @ CCL Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£72.35 @ Aria PC)
Total: £1138.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available


In a year or two I can always stick another 970 in to make sure it can keep up with the latest releases.
I'm not really planning on overclocking the CPU right away, so for the time being I'm just sticking with the stock cooler. Again, that's always something that's pretty easy to change in 1 or 2 years time.
Any further advice or recommendations is welcome of course, that's why I'm posting, though I don't really want to stretch the budget anywhere past £1,200-£1,300.
 

RGM79

Member
Ok, new gaming PC time this Christmas! But I've been out of the system building scene for a while now. I've only had room for gaming laptops before, but my new house has an office so I can finally go back to Desktop gaming.
Basically looking to build a gaming rig that's going to last me a good 3-4 years. Looking to play current games pretty much maxed out of course, might as well go for it right?

The spec I've had some assistance with so far is this,


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.50 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£109.99 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£133.03 @ More Computers)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£127.19 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Seagate SV35.5 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£69.68 @ CCL Computers)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card (£265.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case (£62.87 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£118.04 @ CCL Computers)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (£11.89 @ CCL Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£72.35 @ Aria PC)
Total: £1138.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available


In a year or two I can always stick another 970 in to make sure it can keep up with the latest releases.
I'm not really planning on overclocking the CPU right away, so for the time being I'm just sticking with the stock cooler. Again, that's always something that's pretty easy to change in 1 or 2 years time.
Any further advice or recommendations is welcome of course, that's why I'm posting, though I don't really want to stretch the budget anywhere past £1,200-£1,300.

You'll want to switch out that old Z87 motherboard for a new Z97 model. The Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 7 is available at a good price of £120.

That 2TB hard drive is some special model meant for video surveillance systems. You can save about £17 going with a Toshiba 7200RPM 2TB hard drive.

Good call on going with low profile RAM, but you can save a bit. Here's some faster memory which is also low profile, 16GB of Kingston Savage DDR3-2400 memory for £124.

That power supply is a good brand, but that model is overpriced. For SLI, you should get a 750 to 850 watt PSU. I recommend the EVGA Supernova G2 750 watt for £87. Gold rated, fully modular.

You could get rid of the DVD drive to save a bit. Unless you specifically need one, DVD drives are seeing less and less use these days. Windows can be installed with a USB drive, all you really need is the product key.
 

garath

Member
Well my hemming and hawing has led to the 500gig Samsung evo being sold out on amazon. Oh well. Fingers crossed prices just keep going down. Might get one early next year.
 

Soodanim

Gold Member
Which benchmarking program should I be using for GPU OCs? I'm going to see what I can get from my 970, as Witcher 2 (I can't believe GOG just gave that game away for free) saw a dip into the mid 40s in a cutscene/conversation and I thought I might as well look into it. Ubersampling is off, because that game seems to be quite demanding.
 

LilJoka

Member
Which benchmarking program should I be using for GPU OCs? I'm going to see what I can get from my 970, as Witcher 2 (I can't believe GOG just gave that game away for free) saw a dip into the mid 40s in a cutscene/conversation and I thought I might as well look into it. Ubersampling is off, because that game seems to be quite demanding.

Unigene Valley bench is a pretty standard tool. Or 3DMark firestrike but it's a really long bench.
 
i done did it, reference 970 is pretty

Isn't it! I was so happy to have found one. Worth the little bit extra. Keep in mind though you're going to want to overclock it. The reference models intentionally have really low base clocks. I have mine at almost 1500 mhz boost now though and it hasn't gone over 65c yet.
 
You should rather pity anyone who buys it. It has 35 ms input lag.

I want a 4k monitor with really high pixel density otherwise it's pointless, (probably will still use it at 2560x1440) it needs to have Gsync, preferably a non TN panel and an input lag that doesn't kill gaming. Does it even exist, and can I get it for under $800 USD?
 

Sanjay

Member
That's a water cooler for small cases.. haven't seen one of those before. What case do you have, and what processor are you cooling?

Asetek no longer sells products directly to the product, and that cooler has been discontinued.

Shuttle SZ77R5, and will want to cool a i5 2500k.
 
Eh I want to bite, but the GPU solutions currently available would make the games run at 30-40 FPS and medium settings. I'll wait a few years and than hopefully tech will catch up so I can run butter in SLI.

In a few years' time we'll have affordable, better 4k monitor with g-sync support and cheap gpus to push current-gen games at that resolution and 60 fps with ease.

But it's tempting nonetheless.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Ok, a few tweaks to the spec,

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.50 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-GAMING 7 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£119.96 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston Savage 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2400 Memory (£123.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£127.19 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£52.94 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card (£265.99 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case (£62.87 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£87.44 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/RSBS DVD/CD Writer (£11.89 @ CCL Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£72.35 @ Aria PC)
Total: £1092.12
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available


Any further recommendations are of course welcome.
 

Stubo

Member
The sore thumb there is the SSD. Is there a specific reason you're looking at the pro model?

If not, try to pick up a 500Gb 840 Evo or 512Gb Crucial MX100 for ~£120 on Amazon tomorrow during the Cyber Monday madness. (Or £60 256Gb MX100 which we saw last week if you'd prefer to save money and not increase storage)
 

Lagamorph

Member
A combination of recommendations and some comparison reviews I read between the Pro and Evo noting that the Pro was worth the extra. Plus there wasn't all that much between them price wise for the 256GB versions, about £10-20 depending on which of the Evo models you go for. I don't really see the need for anything more than that amount of storage on the SSD when all it's going to have on it is Windows, Office and a few other programs. My Steam/Origin library will all be going to the 2TB drive.
 
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