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[bjork]

It's only great if you got a game genie.

Wuss!

 

[Y2Kev]

I liked the "plopped in a strange land" thing, but you can be plopped in a strange land and have to find your way around and figure out what to do without having to do some obscure actions to progress. That's what I think is annoying--not the lack of handholding.

I struggled to find a way to express this without seeming like I was complaining.

 

[cartman414]

I've tried getting into the NES Zelda games, but they are primitive to a fault. I couldn't get into them. They haven't aged as good as Super Mario Bros. or Final Fantasy.

You can't be serious about Final Fantasy. Not to mention that I'd consider Zelda 2 less primitive.

I'd like a Zelda 1 with diagonal movement, and more variety in dungeon rooms and puzzles. Then again, I'd say Link's Awakening provided everything but the original's sense of freedom. Not to mention of course the soon to come 3d Dot Game Heroes.

 

[rollingstart]

Seemed like the game could be completed in a few hours if you knew where you were going. I think it might be pretty frustrating without a guide telling you to bomb random things and throw whatever into various fountains.

It's actually the complete opposite. If you knew everything, the game can get a bit boring compared to later Zelda games. Everything is really basic except the feeling of exploration. It took me like a year to finish it in the early 90s when I first played it (I was really young). Subsequent playthroughs have never been as good as the first one, and I don't feel that way about any other Zelda game (except Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks).

Realistically, I wonder if I had the patience to do it all again. When I replayed it back when the Wii came out (on VC) I still remembered a lot of the game. If I could wipe my memory and try it again, spending that long just mapping out and exploring everything would be testing. I think about Demon's Soul and how much different I would have treated that if I didn't ask for info on forums and such. Imagine playing that without knowing anything (including the helper things on the floor).

actually, it would be awesome if Nintendo made New Zelda like that. Same feeling that you were dropped into a world without hints, but like Demon's Soul you had other players who could leave hints around in the world itself. Wait, Nintendo...online...nevermind.

 

[beelzebozo]

you forgot ITT in the title

he's playing in a room, not in the thread

If I could wipe my memory and try it again, spending that long just mapping out and exploring everything would be testing.

when i watched ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND, i actually thought to myself, "man, selective memory wipe would be experiencing the arts again." the application here is obvious, but imagine being able to intentionally watch one of your favorite television series or read your favorite book as if it were the first time, again and again.

 

[beelzebozo]

dp sorry

 

[King Chozo]

This is unfortunately what I have, as I seriously envied all my friends with the gold cartridge!

Hold on lemme go in my closet for a sec...

BOOM!

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

OMG

I wonder what it's worth!

 

[beelzebozo]

i've got mine, too!

but the save battery is busted, and has been since 1988.

 

[rollingstart]

when i watched ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND, i actually thought to myself, "man, selective memory wipe would be experiencing the arts again." the application here is obvious, but imagine being able to intentionally watch one of your favorite television series or read your favorite book as if it were the first time, again and again.

That would be awesome, but I have better uses than that.

/deleting Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, Indiana Jones Crystal Skull, Star Wars PT, Die Hard 4

/error Die Hard 4 not found; did you mean: general action film with michael chiklis?

 

[totowhoa]

I kind of understand where the OP comes from. I never played Zelda 1 back in the day either. First played LttP at a friend's house. Borrowed it one day and beat it, but I never owned it until the GBA version, but I finally bought the original for my fiance's birthday a year ago.

When I first tried to go through Zelda 1 several years ago, it was a chore at first, since I only had the cart without a manual and swore that I wouldn't use gamefaqs (finally broke down for the forest maze part, though ). Now that I've been through it once, I can really appreciate the game a lot more. As somebody who never played it as a youngster, it really gets a lot better on a second play through. It becomes a ton of fun. Plus, I'm a sucker for the kind of secrets that you have in Zelda 1... no idea why, I guess I'm just a masochist :lol

Also, I love Zelda 2. I played this shortly after my first time playing Zelda 1 (found the gold cart at a Goodwill!). I kind of put Zelda 1 and 2 on the same level, even though they're different genres... I like them both for different reasons. That said, I have an off topic question: I picked up Faxanadu about 6 months ago because I'd always wanted to play it. I put about 30 minutes in after cleaning the shit out of the contacts, but then I got sidetracked due to a sudden urge to play through Nocturne again and I haven't gone back to it yet. I've been considering it recently, but is the consensus that is on par, better, or worse than Zelda 2? From the 30 minutes I played, it seemed identical in most ways, so I'm expecting good things... I need to just go pop it in...

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

i've got mine, too!

but the save battery is busted, and has been since 1988.

Damn, you must have played the hell out of that game!

My battery still functions.

...at least I think it does. I haven't played it on the actual cartridge in years.

 

[King Chozo]

I'm fairly sure the save battery on mine still works.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

The original Zelda is a fucking treasure. The later games feel too much like games. The puzzles too logical, your character too strong, and the path through the world too obvious, and the storyline too humanized. This one just nails the sense of adventure.

 

[beelzebozo]

Damn, you must have played the hell out of that game!

My battery still functions.

...at least I think it does. I haven't played it on the actual cartridge in years.

every friday, my two brothers, my papaw, and myself would start again from square one and try to beat this damn game, unable to save our progress. it took us almost five years.

still some of the greatest gaming rituals i've ever had, though. nobody really even cared that we didn't beat it; zelda was just part of the friday routine.

truly the best of times.

 

[totowhoa]

every friday, my two brothers, my papaw, and myself would start again from square one and try to beat this damn game, unable to save our progress. it took us almost five years.

God, this is the worst part about being grown up with no kids yet. I miss family gaming SO much. My brother, dad, and sometimes my mom would get together with a bunch of coins from our coin jar that they kept and pop super mario kart in and we'd all take turns with the controllers and ante up and gamble on each round. Winner was the one who got everybody's money Such fun memories. I've gambled on horse racing, but it can't be as fun as that was.

 

[ntropy]

i beat zelda 1 without a guide. you have to listen to the cryptic messages from the old guys. that said, zelda 2 is better

 

[Y2Kev]

I used to family game. My mom and dad and I would take turns playing SMW, and they would put me to bed and then I'd wake up with them playing still...with the SNES in my room! And I remember my dad screaming loud at like 4 AM after finally beating Castlevania IV and waking me up. Okay so that is more like subconscious family gaming. But still.

I kind of miss that-- family gaming used to be playing games as a family, now it's playing "family games" as a family largely. This is one reason why NSMBW has been so successful-- it's not a watered down experience.

 

[WillyFive]

That would be awesome, but I have better uses than that.

/deleting Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, Indiana Jones Crystal Skull, Star Wars PT, Die Hard 4

/error Die Hard 4 not found; did you mean: general action film with michael chiklis?

Why the heck would you delete those movies (other than PT)?

 

[beelzebozo]

Why the heck would you delete those movies (other than PT)?

i would imagine he thinks they are bad movies.

and after not even the slightest hesitation or thought to the contrary, i have to agree with him to the fullest extent that i am capable of agreeing with someone without them actually being me.

 

[totowhoa]

I used to family game. My mom and dad and I would take turns playing SMW

Yeah we did this a lot... I remember we played a lot one day, and when I woke up the next morning before going to school, my mom told me she had a dream that she was riding around on Yoshi through Mario World :lol That's my favorite thing about the Wii-- I can sit down and play Wii ___ with them or Mario Kart Wii when I visit Feels like the good ol' days

 

[WillyFive]

i would imagine he thinks they are bad movies.

That's ridiculous.

and after not even the slightest hesitation or thought to the contrary, i have to agree with him to the fullest extent that i am capable of agreeing with someone without them actually being me.

That's poetic.

 

[RadarScope1]

I got into this a little bit just this week on a retro forum, but I agree with the minority here who have said the game hasn't aged as well as some games. I know, I know, sacrilege and all that. I'm not saying it hasn't aged well, and I'm certainly not saying it's unplayable or too hard because today's games make us "soft". I'm just saying I don't think it has aged as well as some other 8-bit games, certainly not as well as many other 1st party Nintendo 8-bit games, and not quite as well as the later games in the series. The original LOZ and Metroid -- much as I really love both those series -- feel just a bit too sparse for me to return to at this point. I realize that, for some, this adds to the grand sense of adventure and I totally get that. Just different tastes I suppose.

every friday, my two brothers, my papaw, and myself would start again from square one and try to beat this damn game, unable to save our progress. it took us almost five years.

still some of the greatest gaming rituals i've ever had, though. nobody really even cared that we didn't beat it; zelda was just part of the friday routine.

truly the best of times.

That is just awesome.

 

[andymcc]

this is probably still my favorite zelda game. i think this thread has encouraged me to bust out the Johnny Walker and play this without maps. :lol

 

[Doubledex]

It really isn't that outlandish.

Yes, the game may be older than the older Zeldas(And noticeably so), but it's considered one of the greatest games ever made for a good reason.

The later games in the series did improve on a few things. But they also changed a bunch of other things as well. The original Zelda is still unique amongst the rest of the games in the series.

I think it's still the best one myself. I never did care for the 'epic story' direction the series went into. Just give me a sword and a huge sandbox filled with secrets and discovery!

Like Links Awakening? (best Zelda imo)

 

[KevinCow]

That would be awesome, but I have better uses than that.

/deleting Indiana Jones Temple of Doom, Indiana Jones Crystal Skull, Star Wars PT, Die Hard 4

/error Die Hard 4 not found; did you mean: general action film with michael chiklis?

Don't you mean Die Hard 2.

 

[rollingstart]

every friday, my two brothers, my papaw, and myself would start again from square one and try to beat this damn game, unable to save our progress. it took us almost five years.

still some of the greatest gaming rituals i've ever had, though. nobody really even cared that we didn't beat it; zelda was just part of the friday routine.

truly the best of times.

I remembering trying to completely finish every level of Super Mario Bros 3 with my brother once. Like any good NES, it required a contraption to keep the cart pushed down just enough so it wouldn't have errors; we found a toy gun from a dollar store worked well. You still needed to sit back so you wouldn't accidently slam on the ground and cause the NES to move. Late in world 7, my dad stomps into the room and the NES breaks down. It was heartbreaking. This is years after we both played the game so much, but always with whistles and skipping stages we didn't need to play.

Eventually I managed to do it when I bought a top loading NES from a friend for $5. All those skills learned to just make the NES work weren't need anymore. It's nice that consoles are so reliable these days!

 

[Incitemaybe]

I very much agree with those that have said that a balance between extreme unguided exploration and the over-wrought hand holding is what a new Zelda would be great with.

Even when I played the original Zelda back in the day the fact that I burned 100 bushes before I found one that was important was off putting, I didn't feel this was exploration, just trial and error.
Of course there are many timeless things that were introduced in the first Zelda that have become series staples but I would have to say that the original Zelda is indeed a masterpiece stuck in its original time period.

Yes! Modern games need ALOT less hand holding, the point it's at now does make one yearn for the chance to rely on your own logic and simple problem solving skills. Then again I can also see there are people out there who can't even play the simplest of games so........

 

[totowhoa]

Eventually I managed to do it when I bought a top loading NES from a friend for $5. All those skills learned to just make the NES work weren't need anymore. It's nice that consoles are so reliable these days!

No kidding... I was never old enough to experience pre-NES consoles as a youngster, but were previous consoles that bad? I own a 2600 now and I've never had any issues with it. Although my regular NES is fine, I've had many friends with crappy ones.

 

[King Chozo]

It's nice that consoles are so reliable these days!

Is this a joke? Sure my NES needs something jammed inside to press the cartridge down so it doesn't have errors, but it's older than me and it still works perfectly! I can't say the same for the 3 Xbox 360s I've been through since 2006.

 

[D-Pad]

This thread is making want to play it again... I had it on the GCN though, and that game is not fun to play with that controller.

 

[totowhoa]

Yes! Modern games need ALOT less hand holding, the point it's at now does make one yearn for the chance to rely on your own logic and simple problem solving skills. Then again I can also see there are people out there who can't even play the simplest of games so........

Yeah... I would love if the new Zelda took some cues from some of the more appropriate Myst-style puzzles. Current ones are already overdone, and they still give you a fairy or something that basically tells you how to solve it half of the time :/

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

BC's QUEST FOR TIRES!

Loved that game.

 

[beelzebozo]

Is this a joke? Sure my NES needs something jammed inside to press the cartridge down so it doesn't have errors, but it's older than me and it still works perfectly! I can't say the same for the 3 Xbox 360s I've been through since 2006.

well, nintendo consoles anyway!

 

[andymcc]

Is this a joke? Sure my NES needs something jammed inside to press the cartridge down so it doesn't have errors, but it's older than me and it still works perfectly! I can't say the same for the 3 Xbox 360s I've been through since 2006.

i have four original NESes and they all struggle to work.

i have a famicom with a converter for NES games and that, however, works like a charm.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

If it wasn't on your radar already, might I suggest 3d Dot Game heroes for PS3? It basically apes Zelda 1 and similar games and does so with flair.

Didn't know about it, thanks for the recommendation. I still have to buy my own PS3 though.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Even though LTTP and LA are my two favorite Zelda games, Zelda 1 did have that isolated feel with no hand holding that I loved so much. I remember that one area with all the bushes where you had to find your way to the next dungeon by randomly guessing which way to go next.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

When you start off the game, you can't do anything but walk around. You try that out, but looking at that screen, where do you want to go first? That cave! It's the only unique tile on the screen (other than Link). It draws you toward it naturally, drawing you immediately into the overworld's exploration gameplay. Nowadays, games would block off the west, north, and eastern exits until you got the sword, and the sword guy would tell you how to use the sword, and then he'd make you do it a few times to make sure you knew how to use it. And then they would do that with every item.

So true - fucking handholding in zelda needs to stop

 

[beelzebozo]

Even though LTTP and LA are my two favorite Zelda games, Zelda 1 did have that isolated feel with no hand holding that I loved so much. I remember that one area with all the bushes where you had to find your way to the next dungeon by randomly guessing which way to go next.

the o.g. lost woods

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

the o.g. lost woods

Yeah. Don't forget that dude in the grave yard. I think during a certain point in the game, you get the

Spoiler

white sword from a grave you push.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

On a related note:
The handholding in zelda started with aonuma. That man is too incompetent to include tutorials naturally into the gameflow - like tezuka did it in lttp and la for example.
His first game MARVELOUS trapped you in a fucking tutorial tent for about ten minutes to explain every little, shitty, mundane detail for you instead of letting you discover the game yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqSKRDcC1OU Actually this video already shows everything that is wrong with zelda today. Aonuma has no idea how natural gameflow works at all.
Aonuma is a fucking hack and needs to be removed from zelda.

 

[YourMaster]

I think playing Zelda like the OP did, you get no idea what Zelda was actually about. Using a map to show where the dungeons are is perfectly OK, but the find all the hidden items takes the fun out of it.

When you play the first dungeon with just 3 hart containers and the small shield, no bombs, it's the combat that's challenging. The dungeons are about that, not about puzzles. The fifth dungeon is really where the going gets tough, especially if you don't have the silver sword yet (which is likely on your first play through), and the game really starts to shine. Completing the final dungeon is one of the great achievements in anyone's live.

In retrospect though, I could have done without burning all the damn bushes in the game. I would have at least waited until I got the red candle.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ah, I remember my first time playing the original. my first Zelda games were the Oracles, back on my GBC, and man, I played the hell out of those things. Didn't get around to the original until I got into Zelda Classic years later, and I was really impressed with the non-linearity. After seeing how framed and directed the later games were (not that there's anything wrong with that), it was refreshing to really see the freeform roots the series came from.

 

[Hazelhurst]

Best game ever made, period.

This.

 

[cooljeanius]

The later games feel too much like games. The puzzles too logical, your character too strong, and the path through the world too obvious, and the storyline too humanized.

I fail to see how any of these are bad.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

On a related note:
The handholding in zelda started with aonuma. That man is too incompetent to include tutorials naturally into the gameflow - like tezuka did it in lttp and la for example.
His first game MARVELOUS trapped you in a fucking tutorial tent for about ten minutes to explain every little, shitty, mundane detail for you instead of letting you discover the game yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqSKRDcC1OU Actually this video already shows everything that is wrong with zelda today. Aonuma has no idea how natural gameflow works at all.
Aonuma is a fucking hack and needs to be removed from zelda.

The beginning to OOT made me want to shoot my brains out.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

The beginning to OOT made me want to shoot my brains out.

Same here, there's no drive behind it. It just drags on and on. Nothing exciting. A bunch of creepy leprechauns let you do their daily chores - what the fuck. This isn't zelda.
Zelda used to be about being thrown directly into adventure.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Whenever I play a modern Zelda game, this is what sits in the back of my mind while I'm playing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgZ295t4Oo&feature=related

 

[beelzebozo]

Whenever I play a modern Zelda game, this is what sits in the back of my mind while I'm playing - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAgZ295t4Oo&feature=related

this is what plays in mine for pretty much every zelda ever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm2YyVZBL8U

 

[mugurumakensei]

On a related note:
The handholding in zelda started with aonuma. That man is too incompetent to include tutorials naturally into the gameflow - like tezuka did it in lttp and la for example.
His first game MARVELOUS trapped you in a fucking tutorial tent for about ten minutes to explain every little, shitty, mundane detail for you instead of letting you discover the game yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqSKRDcC1OU Actually this video already shows everything that is wrong with zelda today. Aonuma has no idea how natural gameflow works at all.
Aonuma is a fucking hack and needs to be removed from zelda.

Aonuma wasn't director til Majora's mask, and the hand holding started in Ocarina of Time. Aonuma just did dungeon design in Ocarina of Time and, well, the dungeons in Ocarina of Time were fantastic though some things seemed unfinished.