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[nkarafo]

I believe that there are a few games that if Atari handled better, they could really boost the sales and expand the base of the console, thus attracting more 3rd parties.

Rayman was originally released for the Jaguar. It was probably the most beautiful 2D game at the time and a pretty good game too. I wonder if Atari could make this an exclusive and, why not, make Rayman the mascot for the Jaguar. The N64 was years away, there was no next-gen Sonic on the Saturn and Crash was about a year away. So Rayman would be mostly alone in this. It had the attractive character, the graphics, the art direction and the gameplay. Everything that a mascot game needs. I mean Rayman was a much better candidate than Gex ever was anyway.

Doom was another major game. I don't know if it was the first console port, maybe it was actually. Initially, it was only this and the 32x version i think. What matters though is that it was the best port of the two. And it was the only way to play this game on a console, in a good shape and form, without needing a super expensive 486 PC. Especially if you didn't have a Genesis (so the 32X wasn't an option for you). Playing a decent DOOM port on a cheap console, in 1994, was a big deal IMO and Atari should have pushed this more.

AVP and Wolf 3D were also pretty great FPS games. Not as advanced as Doom but still pretty good. It helps that the Wolf 3D port was the best, along with the 3DO one. But the 3DO was a much more expensive console. Again, it was another PC classic that you could play on a dirt cheap "next-gen" console and it was a much better looking version too.

Sure, aside from those, there wasn't much else. But if these few games were pushed correctly, they could attract more people and expand the base, thus more 3rd parties, thus more good games. For instance, with the AVP/Wolf3D/Doom trio, they could go after the FPS crowd and that was the most popular, fastest growing genre back then. "The best console for FPS games", how about that?

And no, Tempest wasn't the right game to push the console to people. As great as it was, it was still a retro-looking game. People wanted to see awesome, colorful graphics and new tech, not a remake of an 80's vector arcade game. This should have been seen as a bonus in the Jaguar library, not a "killer app".

Thoughts?

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Rayman and Doom got ported.

 

[frankie_baby]

2016 will really be Jaguar's year then?

 

[DownGrader]

3DO legit had much more worthwhile software than Jaguar. It didn't really help it.

 

[wishihadthreeguns]

Everyone wanted "real" next gen.

 

[nkarafo]

3DO was too expensive.

Doom got ported but Jaguar still had the first great port.

I know Rayman also got ported but it was originally made for the Jaguar. I'm wondering if they could make this an exclusive instead if they knew what they really have in their hands. I don't think they knew.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Ah AVP, Rebellion's early days.
A system with 15 face buttons was really ahead of its time.

 

[RickD]

Awful controller
Still used Carts
Terrible Game library
Hard to program for
PS1 came out a year later.

Recipe for Success.

 

[jack....]

I actually think the window is closed on this one.

 

[Celine]

You are deluded if you think the Jaguar could have been a success or maybe we have a different definition of success.
Jaguar sold about 125K in total, to have sales perfomance that could be called success you need 10-100 times that number.
I believe Tramiel's Atari didn't have the cash at hand to invest into the project to really become a success no matter what.

 

[Jezbollah]

California Games on the Atari Lynx was about as good as Atari gaming hardware got after the early days..

 

[Xav]

But the Atari Jaguar was a success.

I don't see any of Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft's legacy consoles doubling up as a mold for a dental camera company.

 

[Number 905]

The dream is over, let it go.

 

[entremet]

What killed the 3DO and Jaguar was poor Japanese third party support.

This was back when Japan was the king of the hill in console gaming and not having Square, Konami, Capcom, and so on hurt them.

 

[Glowsquid]

The original Panther console seemed like it had a great spec/cost/time of release ratio and had a less problematic architecture. they probably should have gone with that design instead.

 

[nkarafo]

What killed the 3DO and Jaguar was poor Japanese third party support.

The N64 also had poor Japanese 3rd party support (compared to Saturn and PS1). It also had cartridges. It was also "64bit" a number that Atari surely made look bad with their shitty ads.

But it managed to do pretty OK in the end because it had a bunch of great games and they pushed those as much as they could.

 

[nillah]

Wtf @ that controller. Am I going to order pizza lol!?

 

[lethial]

It was garbage when it was announced.

 

[ReyVGM]

With a controller like this?

*Laughs*

Never.

Also, OP, those games you mentioned were more popular on PC (Doom, etc.) or Europe (Rayman). Back then most console players were fixated with Japanese games. Mario, Sonic, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, and the like.
The Jaguar was never really going to get a chance without good Japanese support, and even with European support, it would have never reached Amiga levels either.

 

[DownGrader]

Wtf @ that controller. Am I going to order pizza lol!?

It kind of carried over Intellivision/Colecovision idea of having a numpad on a controller and overlays for each game. Not a bad idea on its own, it just wasn't properly realised... ever.

 

[Tagyhag]

The original Panther console seemed like it had a great spec/cost/time of release ratio and had a less problematic architecture. they probably should have gone with that design instead.

Yep, it wouldn't have been a sales leader but the Panther could have helped Atari coast until a new console.

It kind of carried over Intellivision/Colecovision idea of having a numpad on a controller and overlays for each game. Not a bad idea on its own, it just wasn't properly realised... ever.

It was in DOOM.

 

[Stone Ocean]

The N64 also had poor Japanese 3rd party support (compared to Saturn and PS1). It also had cartridges. It was also "64bit" a number that Atari surely made look bad with their shitty ads.

But it managed to do pretty OK in the end because it had a bunch of great games and they pushed those as much as they could.

It did ok because it was a Nintendo console coming off the SNES and had great Nintendo games.

The Jaguar was a piece of shit that you bought to play Cybermorph and Amiga ports.

 

[jesu]

I'll get one if it is.

 

[120v]

90s console market was a clusterfuck. maybe jaguar could've been more relevant but it wouldn't have come "easily"

 

[nkarafo]

Also, OP, those games you mentioned were more popular on PC (Doom, etc.)

Exactly. Many console owners dreamed of playing something like Doom in 1993/94. But gaming PCs were too expensive in mid 90's. The cheapest and best way was the Jaguar port.

The Jaguar was a piece of shit that you bought to play Cybermorph and Amiga ports.

Or it could be the console to play Doom, a few FPS games that only an expensive PC could handle and the best looking 2D platformer at the time. But i agree. They didn't handle those titles as they could.

 

[DownGrader]

It was in DOOM.

No, I mean there wasn't a keypad controller which had a numpad and was comfortable at the same time. Intellivision, Colecovision, Atari 5200, Atari Jaguar... they all had shitty controllers.

 

[thefro]

What killed the 3DO and Jaguar was poor Japanese third party support.

This was back when Japan was the king of the hill in console gaming and not having Square, Konami, Capcom, and so on hurt them.

3DO launched at $699 (in early 90s US Dollars), which is what really hurt it.

I always thought (as a EGM/Gamepro reader at the time) that 3DO and Neo-Geo seemed cool, but were insanely expensive and had very limited game libraries compared to Nintendo and Sega. We were already hearing about the Saturn and Playstation by the time 3DO actually came out.

Jaguar just looked dumb from the start.

 

[ReyVGM]

Exactly. Many console owned dreamed of playing something like Doom in 1993/94. But gaming PCs were too expensive in mid 90's. The cheapest and best way was the Jaguar port.

.

FPS on consoles weren't really a thing people were clamoring for back then. Sure, there probably were a lot of people that would have liked it, but the reality is that in the console space back then the types of games on the Jaguar were just not what people wanted to play.

 

[stan423321]

I'm not an expert, but from what I know, Jaguar looks absolutely mind-wrecking on hardware side - even compared to Sega Saturn. Here's one interesting highlight. One of programmable processors is supposed to do graphics, another - to deal with audio, and the last one - to handle input/output. Where's the game logic supposed to go? Or are Jaguar games not supposed to have any logic more complex than, say, Atari 2600 games, and thus this was a discernible detail?

So you, OP, basically may have the correct idea, that Jaguar had the wrong kind of games pushed. But the "pushing" in its case was far more than marketing and such. I wouldn't be surprised if it involved controller design - how would you launch with THAT after the SNES controller?

 

[Chittagong]

I vividly remember a demo event I did when I worked for Nintendo in 1994 or 1995. There was a Jaguar event in the same store the same day. Their guy was in early and had set up his Jaguar demo, and he was frothing about Rayman. When I finally got set up I pulled out the fresh DKC EEPROM we had hot from Rare. After that, all the buzz was on our stand and the Jaguar guy was forever alone, not even Rayman could save him :-(

He improvised well though, he whipped out an AvP demo instead, which was a smart move. Even I was a bit jealous.

 

[Sir Abacus]

I'm not an expert, but from what I know, Jaguar looks absolutely mind-wrecking on hardware side - even compared to Sega Saturn. Here's one interesting highlight. One of programmable processors is supposed to do graphics, another - to deal with audio, and the last one - to handle input/output. Where's the game logic supposed to go? Or are Jaguar games not supposed to have any logic more complex than, say, Atari 2600 games, and thus this was a discernible detail?

That's why Jaguar Doom didn't have any in-game music.

Funny story. The Jaguar depends on its scratchpad RAM because of a huge bug in the memory controller that stopped the CPU executing code from main memory.

 

[entremet]

The N64 also had poor Japanese 3rd party support (compared to Saturn and PS1). It also had cartridges. It was also "64bit" a number that Atari surely made look bad with their shitty ads.

But it managed to do pretty OK in the end because it had a bunch of great games and they pushed those as much as they could.

Yeah, but Nintendo first party at its peak.

 

[ReyVGM]

Rayman was originally released for the Jaguar. It was probably the most beautiful 2D game at the time and a pretty good game too. I wonder if Atari could make this an exclusive and, why not, make Rayman the mascot for the Jaguar. The N64 was years away, there was no next-gen Sonic on the Saturn and Crash was about a year away. So Rayman would be mostly alone in this. It had the attractive character, the graphics, the art direction and the gameplay. Everything that a mascot game needs. I mean Rayman was a much better candidate than Gex ever was anyway.

While I agree that Rayman is a lot better than any Gex game, Rayman 1 is really not a good game.
It's decent, and it looks gorgeous, but isn't a killer app. It had bad hit detection, loose controls, blind jumps and levels with lots of unfair hazards.

Rayman really entered the great game category with Rayman Origins/Legends.

 

[DownGrader]

I vividly remember a demo event I did when I worked for Nintendo in 1994 or 1995. There was a Jaguar event in the same store the same day. Their guy was in early and had set up his Jaguar demo, and he was frothing about Rayman. When I finally got set up I pulled out the fresh DKC EEPROM we had hot from Rare. After that, all the buzz was on our stand and the Jaguar guy was forever alone, not even Rayman could save him :-(

He improvised well though, he whipped out an AvP demo instead, which was a smart move. Even I was a bit jealous.

Stories like that are the reason I visit NeoGAF

Spoiler

and Reddit

on a daily basis.

 

[nkarafo]

I vividly remember a demo event I did when I worked for Nintendo in 1994 or 1995. There was a Jaguar event in the same store the same day. Their guy was in early and had set up his Jaguar demo, and he was frothing about Rayman. When I finally got set up I pulled out the fresh DKC EEPROM we had hot from Rare. After that, all the buzz was on our stand and the Jaguar guy was forever alone, not even Rayman could save him :-(

He improvised well though, he whipped out an AvP demo instead, which was a smart move. Even I was a bit jealous.

That's pretty awesome.

Man, nothing could beat DKC back then. "Play a 32-bit game on your 16-bit SNES". How can you beat that campaign?

 

[t26]

What killed the 3DO and Jaguar was poor Japanese third party support.

This was back when Japan was the king of the hill in console gaming and not having Square, Konami, Capcom, and so on hurt them.

3DO got Japanese support, as 2 of the 3 manufacturers were Japanese companies. They got Policenauts from Konami, Super Street Fighter II Turbo from Capcom, anime games from Bandi, and a few Japanese only RPG.

 

[Graphics Horse]

It kind of carried over Intellivision/Colecovision idea of having a numpad on a controller and overlays for each game. Not a bad idea on its own, it just wasn't properly realised... ever.

Oh yeah, I always forget they did that first, was a bit before my time.

 

[MooMilk2929]

Rayman couldn't have been that big. It was a 2D game and at the time people were excited for 3D.

 

[GuyKazama]

It kind of carried over Intellivision/Colecovision idea of having a numpad on a controller and overlays for each game. Not a bad idea on its own, it just wasn't properly realised... ever.

The concept basically morphed into the WiiU gamepad. Not sure they've nailed it yet.

 

[Chittagong]

Mostly forgotten today, Jaguar also had a CD-ROM drive, which combined with a cartridge, rather unfortunately looked like a toilet seat

And if only Jaguar VR got to see the light of the day, we wouldn't have had to wait Palmer Luckey be born and grow up

 

[go_straight]

Rayman couldn't have been that big. It was a 2D game and at the time people were excited for 3D.

The first Rayman was huge. It was also the best selling playstation game in UK.

 

[Tripon]

I thought this thread was going to announce another retro VGS successor.

 

[ultrazilla]

Still had the best Alien vs Predator game, hasn't been beat yet.

Come at me bro.

 

[liquidtmd]

Annnnny year now

 

[Neff]

Any console without Japanese games in the mid '90s was DOA.

 

[Plasma]

Atari are playing the long game.

 

[Sirim]

Took me a few moments to come to terms with the present tense of OP's thread title and post.

 

[Phediuk]

Any console without Japanese games in the mid '90s was DOA.

Don't think I'd go that far. Many of the most successful games from the 16-bit era were Western: Mortal Kombat, NBA Jam, Killer Instinct, Donkey Kong Country, EA Sports, Jurassic Park, Aladdin, Earthworm Jim, and so on. All huge sellers. Actually, wouldn't surprise me if Japanese games made up the minority of sales in the US during that era.

 

[...Scatter...]

But the Atari Jaguar was a success.

I don't see any of Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft's legacy consoles doubling up as a mold for a dental camera company.

Holy shit! LOL. Bury me like ET.

 

[forrest]

I still have mine in the closet. Was worth it for AvP and Doom alone.