Sure.
He could also be making things sound better than they are since his business depends on it.
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I took a trip to North Korea. (Pic heavy)
- Thread starter SuperBanana
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He could also be making things sound better than they are since his business depends on it.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I too find the best bet when presented with actual numbers is to double down on my gut feeling.
One of the central tenets of the Juche Ideology developed by Kim-il-Sung, necessitates the presence of and subordination to an undisputed supreme leader to lead the people and his chosen successors.
Kim and the other Communist Powers were friendly, but he never wanted to remain reliant on them. Hence Juche(Self-Reliance).
As for well funded proxy state, also unlikely without some rather large changes, most notably on the fate of the other two communist powers. China's warming up the US pretty much kicked NK into Juche overdrive and the country rapidly began severing relations with China in the 1970's and formally joining the Non-Aligned Powers. The breakup with China began the slow and steady decline of the NK Economy and the Collapse of the USSR pretty much shit over it. North Korea found itself re-establishing ties with China after the USSR left, though China could not produce the amount of food the North was asking for.
Though I suppose to be fair to them, North Korea did have some seriously impressive growth for the first decade or two after it's creation and post war. They did also try to normalize relations with a lot of the west in the late 90's, though politics on the western side pretty much sunk any further cooperation on that front.
Yeah they were doing OK until the 70s and then their isolation began to take its toll and everyone stopped loaning them as much money.
BronsonLee
Member
tbf I wouldn't trust a succubus either
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yeah, important to mention what happens to those people being arrested too.
Take that back
gutter_trash
Banned
The food looks gross
Jack Scofield
Member
This is the hill the OP chose to die on, huh?
Prodigal Son
Member
so like, no moral issue with funding the tourism industry of a totalitarian dictatorship right
SuperBanana
Banned
Yet here I am. Alive and well. In the 5 or so years the tour company has been running only one has been arrested and he did everything you're told not to do. So it's pretty safe. I've known 2 others who went to NK and both went fine as well.
Also, way to skew the numbers. 1 Canadian and 1 Australia EVER does not equal "1 per year" and 1500 tourists was from 13 years ago. It's about 2600 per year now and in the last 3 years 7 people have been arrested, 5 of them American. None of them for anything you aren't explicitly told not to do before entering according to the link shown above.
Getting arrested is bad for business.
All I'm doing is replying to people. I made a thread and a few angry people who think they know far more than people who went to NK or a bloody professional guide are trying to shame me and forcefully make me agree with them, even throwing insults at me. I haven't insulted anyone or demanded my opinion be agreed with and tried to keep it on topic with answering actual questions but the same people keep coming in to shit post because they just want to ruin the thread and probably hope I get pissed off and banned. If they don't like my answers or that I went to North Korea there are plenty of other threads.
"I saw this"
"No you didn't"
"The people were nice"
"No they weren't, they were plants"
"The kids we drove past were excitable to see tourists on a bus"
"No, they're forced to smile and prepared a couple hours before you drove past. You're touched in the head if you think otherwise"
"The guide told us X"
"No, he's wrong"
"The guide said we could take the money"
"No you can't, you'll get arrested"
Call me crazy for following the expert and professional whose literal business is making sure travelers are safe.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You are trusting the guy who wants your money rather than stats huh?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What.... no way. Have you never had Korean food (esp. Korean BBQ) before? Those little dishes are tasty as hell.
SuperBanana
Banned
Incorrect stats that were hastily pulled off a google search with articles going back over a decade. The most accurate! No, I'll still take the professional who understands how things work there and takes good care of you. The company was excellent and very friendly, informative, and professional. I plan on taking trips with them again to other places soon. Maybe you'll get my "I took a trip to Afghanistan" post in a year or so.
The food was very good though I had enough Kimchi to last a lifetime.
Wolfe
Member
Apologies if this has already been brought up as I've only read the first page, but what makes you think any of that "bits around that" wasn't also part of that manufactured treatment?
Not saying it is or isn't, just wondering.
Wait is that true?
SuperBanana
Banned
NK isn't that advanced or professional. They aren't the masters of trickery a lot of people in here think they are. Logistically some things would have required the entire city or large parts of it to grind to a halt and become staged just for a small group of tourists. Unless the entire capital of 2.5 million is shut down for tourists then it's just not possible.
Stuff like guards laying around napping and out of uniform, kids screwing around at the back of an assembly, an accident resulting in a death, or poor villagers washing clothes in a river aren't things they'd really want you to see. There's a lot of fakeness but this is a country that thinks their leaders were magical and think unicorns are real. If you didn't know anything about the country then you might be fooled but anyone who goes there knows what kind of place it is. The only place I wondered might be real or fake was the Buddhist temple. I do think he was a real monk but for cultural reasons and they're oppressed to hell. If he was fake then he was a pretty accurate monk. Very similar to ones in Mongolia.
You hear that, statistics!? You aint shit!
Not sure if that in particular is true, but it would be relatively unsurprising given some of the well documented information we have today.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/16/world/asia/north-korea-un-report/l
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/04/opinion/la-oe-harden-north-korea-camps-20120404
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/October/Witness-to-Evil-Mothers-Kill-Children-to-Survivel
Forgive the cbn source, the original source I was going to use is blocked it seems.
Those stats aren't incorrect. I love this dismissive attitude though. Are you a Bing user?
The stats above make your argument worse, don't you understand that?
This also totally ignores the fact of what happens when one is arrested.
EazyWeazy3
Member
I'm jumping in late here so I apologize if this has already been discussed but this part confused me.
In the OP, it states:
"We started in Beijing where I met the tour group and we had a meeting of how everything will go down. It was all very simple stuff. We were also handed out visas which are paper and get stamped(your passport doesn't) when you enter. It's actually really easy to get a visa there as long as you aren't a journalist or in the military. Our group consisted of 4 Australians, 3 Americans, 2 Canadians, 2 Norwegians, 2 English, an Icelandic, a Spanish, and some other Scandinavian dude.
We took a cattle class train from Beijing to Dandong which lies of the boarder of China and North Korea. Americans aren't allowed to take the train but the rest were able to and it's a good time to socialize and meet the others. The train takes about 24 hours all up so it's not a quick journey."
So what happened to the Americans? It says they were apart of the group, but then couldn't get on the train. Anyone got more info? This is bothering me.
Thanks for sharing OP!
In the OP, it states:
"We started in Beijing where I met the tour group and we had a meeting of how everything will go down. It was all very simple stuff. We were also handed out visas which are paper and get stamped(your passport doesn't) when you enter. It's actually really easy to get a visa there as long as you aren't a journalist or in the military. Our group consisted of 4 Australians, 3 Americans, 2 Canadians, 2 Norwegians, 2 English, an Icelandic, a Spanish, and some other Scandinavian dude.
We took a cattle class train from Beijing to Dandong which lies of the boarder of China and North Korea. Americans aren't allowed to take the train but the rest were able to and it's a good time to socialize and meet the others. The train takes about 24 hours all up so it's not a quick journey."
So what happened to the Americans? It says they were apart of the group, but then couldn't get on the train. Anyone got more info? This is bothering me.
Thanks for sharing OP!
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
I absolutely am interested in going because I've done a fair bit of traveling and this is obviously a unique place, but I simply won't risk being jailed because the N. Korean government makes up or incredibly exaggerates something I've done and gives me a fucking decade in a labor camp. Not worth it at all.
SuperBanana
Banned
Fly in and meet up with a different guide at the airport then meet the rest of the group at dinner.
SuperBanana
Banned
Bad stuff can happen anywhere. You just act smart and mature and you're generally fine no matter where you go. There was a mass shooting 1 block away from us in America. Didn't stop me enjoying America. Just stayed in the bar and ordered another drink.
...except you are the one who went off about how North Korea was statistically safer than where ever. And now that it's being pointed out to you that your own claim is bunk, suddenly it's all "who cares!"
While I have your attention, do you wish you expand upon your claim that you A) talked to the guide about the atrocities North Korea commits and B) that you saw someone accidentally die?
Because I don't believe either of these claims.
SuperBanana
Banned
It is safe if you're smart and mature and understand the risks of going to a country like that. There are risks in any country. It's always a calculated risk.
A) The guide just explained how no citizen really knows about the camps. They're never mentioned by the government. One person asked The People's Party NK guy if he knew where Otto was. He laughed and said "Haha, no body knows". If the government takes a person it's for "re-education". Some come back, I guess the others go to the camps. Another reason why the NK guides DON'T want you arrested. You get in trouble, so do they.
The aggression NK shows to other countries os always written about proudly but talking about it like Kim Jong Un is standing up to the bullies and scare them off.
B) A worker was hit by the train coming in. He was pretty clearly dead and after the train started off again it kept honking its horn the whole way. Assumingly to make sure people get off the track.
You keep saying this as though you think you have refuted what is being thrown your way - you have not. You are making an argument about statistics, when the numbers go against you. "If you're smart then blah blah blah" doesn't belie the stats. Especially since your line at smart is "things I got away with."
I wouldn't actually visit North Korea and give money to the regime, but it is a pretty fascinating area. I've been to the DMZ and crossed the 'border' inside one of those blue buildings in the JSA, so I guess I've technically been in NK.
I don't know which other dish is specifically North Korean, but naengmyeon (cold noodle soup) is pretty delicious, and really refreshing in the summer.
Of course, you can easily get it in South Korea, or in Korean restaurants elsewhere around the world.
I don't know which other dish is specifically North Korean, but naengmyeon (cold noodle soup) is pretty delicious, and really refreshing in the summer.
Of course, you can easily get it in South Korea, or in Korean restaurants elsewhere around the world.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I don't know how people can be against this but at the same time be OK with religion which follows the same guidelines of enslavery and threats, sure Religion is less death camp now but death camp later but they still force change people to suit an agenda.
Pick a side people seriously.
Pick a side people seriously.
Good grief this thread is hilarious, and going the same way as other NK-defending threads.
"It's ok that North Korea are psychopathic assholes because every country has bad aspects."
Not every country puts four year old kids in forced labour camps because their great uncle didn't clap hard enough for Kim.
I imagine this is what it was like in 1930s Germany was like. "Sure Hitler kills millions of Jews, but he's got a decent moustache."
"It's ok that North Korea are psychopathic assholes because every country has bad aspects."
Not every country puts four year old kids in forced labour camps because their great uncle didn't clap hard enough for Kim.
I imagine this is what it was like in 1930s Germany was like. "Sure Hitler kills millions of Jews, but he's got a decent moustache."
SuperBanana
Banned
At the end of the day it's simple. I looked into the risk and decided it was low enough to be acceptable. We went with one of the highest rated and biggest companies that go to NK for its professionalism to also lower any risk. That's it.
I went to 4 of the 5 most dangerous US cities too. There were some things that were too high of a risk and I adjusted the trip accordingly.
Correct, it really is simple. The simple numbers say that statistically, you are more likely to be jailed severely in North Korea for a minor crime per number of tourists that visit each year than any other place on earth. And no amount of rationalization from you can't change that.
That's it. Period. End of story. Your claim that "Statistically" north korea is safer than blah blah blah is completely bunk. As was your claim that those numbers were bogus.
SENPAIatLARGE
Banned
If it were 1938 and you could tour Nazi Germany and it would be a fun time, and you would meet lots of great people, would you? Even if you knew about the mass killings happening so close?
Were the Nazi's involved in Genocide in 1938? I know they forced people out from 1936 on wards but the camps came around like 1942 Sorry for the off topic and it by no means lessens your point.
crimzonflame
Member
I thought this was bumped because it was related to the other NK thread.
Zee_truly evil
Member
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