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If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice
- Thread starter DrArchon
- Start date
Oh you mean the costume that gets criticized harshly in P5 threads? Along with her grossly oversexualized Persona?
Look im not defending Persona's designs, i merely was pointing out the Persona fighting game mostly features teens in school uniforms as the playable characters.
And it was in direct reply to a person insinuating that a fighting game "with people dressed in normal clothes" would be boring, which is a ridiculous claim because Fighting games shine in gameplay.
You totally can have a great fighting game with people dressed as normal people, and what came to my mind was the game that features characters in normal clothes for most of the cast (P4A).
reddit's format is a complete mess for discussion.
and i'm pretty sure that if you asked r kappa, and told them that the discussion started on neogaf, they would murder you right there.
In her case, the story established her as not having time to change after shooting for a sentai show in which she starred, so there was at least context for it. As for Mitsuru's Shadow Operatives outfit...yeah, I've got nothin'. Either way, I won't deny fanservice as being what ultimately motivated the developers to find an excuse to dress them up as they did.
I will say that I do not want everything to devolve into an "everything is sexy" status quo as, even if it were equal, it would still be pigeon-holing everyone into a specific design constraint, when I'd much rather see works flourish with a greater variety in their designs.
But just getting to equality is hard enough already, so first things first, I guess.
It's impossible to tell.
That's a big problem with these discussions - you can't even realistically parody or satirize people defending the fanservice because the arguments in favor are just that absurd. And if someone can't even recognize how ridiculous it is to defend this tripe, well...
Yeah, I mentally check out of every post that does that.
Not even worth engaging with.
Are we going to pretend KOF didn't make a name on how normal and down to earth it's characters are?
And it's not like they didn't do sexy or weird, but even for someone like Mai, they went out of their way to show her in street clothes.
Bonus points for having multiple, different flavors of hot guys in addition to girls that aren't designed as eye candy.
lucebuce12
Member
And Chinese
petran79
Banned
Art of Fighting had the most normal looking characters before moving to the anime look. A tribute to action movies
Choppasmith
Member
Are we going to pretend KOF didn't make a name on how normal and down to earth it's characters are?
And it's not like they didn't do sexy or weird, but even for someone like Mai, they went out of their way to show her in street clothes.
Bonus points for having multiple, different flavors of hot guys in addition to girls that aren't designed as eye candy.
As I said earlier in this thread, SNK is certainly not perfect but Capcom could definitely follow their example. Their female roster in XIV are much more varied and awesome. You've still got the real fanservicey characters in Mai and Angel (I have to wonder what they'd do if they tried showing them on ESPN though)
But you've got plenty of others like Mian
In before "Lol, of course you pick someone like her, she's so covered up!"
Vanessa (yeah they added frilly lace to her work shirt and a quick close-up shot of her ass in one of her supers that I think is a bit tacky) but otherwise awesome character
and Kula (originally had female design input according to the old Anniversary site)
And you've got the likes of Sylvie. Yeah people rag on her for being a "barfed up rainbow" but considering she's based off a real person, I don't see it as that terrible. I kinda dig the cute, peppy idol girl with a hidden dark side.
And I'll prefer Zarina over Laura because at least her outfit clearly had a little more thought put into it.
Sorry if I seems like I'm trying to sell people on KoF, it's just I feel people look at KoF/SNK and see them/KoF as the "one with Mai" and instantly dismiss it.
Actually, pretty sure I remember Kula being designed by a man according to the anniversary site, who also oversaw her implementation in KoF XIII. That said, it was mentioned that the input of female employees of the company was sought specifically during her creation.and Kula (originally designed by a woman according to the old Anniversary site)
Choppasmith
Member
petran79
Banned
Some designers moved from Psikyo to SNK during that time. Fallen Angels fighting game has 2 characters resembling K' and Maxima.
From Psikyo Illustrations Art Book:
CrazyIvan1978
Member
Fuck no, show me an asshole in any fighting game, bitch please
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Don't get stabbed
Sorcerer Supreme
Member
i hope no dev sacrifices their design choice to cater to some lame shit like esports.
It is eSports now, and is getting air time on TV. TV is mainstream, fresh new eyes watching and going far and above the viewer count you get on Twitch.
Even Disney is into it and airing stuff on Disney XD. ESL is going to work on programming with disney XD as well http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1408543
You can't just back out of the mainstream and eSports now!
People cater to others all the time lol
A bit too late for that, SFV is now gonna be a regular thing on Disney XD.
SNK has plenty of well designed characters but these two are not among them.
I can get people not liking Laura but turning around and saying Zarina is better just does not compute.
You see, it's not censorship if creepy otaku demand for change and it improves the waifu quality of a game! It's funny how the "omg censorship" crowd basically pretend these things don't exist.
Michael Jordan Laughing.gif
Mechanized
Member
They could just have esports alternate costumes, I'd be fine with that.
No need to remove characters, just some good costumes would be nice. That new Laura costume above is pretty nice.
Not Street Fighter related but remember this story:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ts-too-sexy-male-star-of-mobius-final-fantasy
Kinda funny that happened to a male character.
Theonik
Member
It's big enough to dictate its own terms. Gaming on the other hand is not really respected by anyone and if EVO and the like allow networks like ESPN to just dictate what the sport should be like so it will remain.
I think KOF XIV is a slept on game with slept on characters and agreed with just about everything you said until you got to Zarina. Her outfit makes Laura's default look tasteful, and Laura's default is the worst.
Isn't this a failure of companies like ESPN in actually researching the product they're investing in? The ESPN/Disney numbers are far lower than the likes of Twitch, and TV is a declining medium among the demographic of esports viewers, so I don't really see what's fair about these companies blindly making a deal on a product and then turning puritan after the fact, and interfering with player's costume choices etc.
That's not to say that Capcom shouldn't do better with body diversity and the costume designs among it's female characters, but as an non-American non-TV viewer why should I support the meddling of American TV executives who clearly didn't know what they were buying, seeing as they only recently discovered Cammy's decades-old default costume?
At the end of the day, Evolution (and the FGC generally) is over a barrel on this purely because they need the sponsorship money, but hopefully it can reach a point where a couple of sponsors don't get to dictate players' choices that are completely valid in 99% of the competitive scene.
That's not to say that Capcom shouldn't do better with body diversity and the costume designs among it's female characters, but as an non-American non-TV viewer why should I support the meddling of American TV executives who clearly didn't know what they were buying, seeing as they only recently discovered Cammy's decades-old default costume?
At the end of the day, Evolution (and the FGC generally) is over a barrel on this purely because they need the sponsorship money, but hopefully it can reach a point where a couple of sponsors don't get to dictate players' choices that are completely valid in 99% of the competitive scene.
The thread on gaf for that was pretty hilarious too.
Arc Christelle
Member
Actually KOF is like Soccer, that shit is international outside the US. If only SNK pushed events or their own EVO.
What a weird statement. They cater to their fans, to their own tastes, their IP's legacy and *gasp* to e-sports medium which is the single most important marketing and retention tool for them.
Kinu did all sorts of designs over her carreer. Because she worked with all kinds of designers over her carreer. You can't say that she is 100% responsible for the final design if you don't have any preliminary sketches and how many other designs were denied before that one.
And for the games we have this, Kinu is pretty good at designing GOOD character design for women, which makes me go for the Bayonetta route : The problem is not the designer, is the people APROVING the design and saying that she has to be naked during her specials and that the camera has to go gyno on her.
But of course it is normal to think that Kinu is the only one to blame since sometimes it seems that most gamers think that games are made by like an artist and a designer alone in the garage and not by a huge group of people with different levels of input. .Be it Braid or Metal Gear 5
edit :
Funny how people go "but wrestling" to explain her original costume but forget that.... wrestling is ... well, wrestling
So yeah, that drawing would make total sense and be an awesome Mika costume. They can even do the reveal in the wining pose
What
Theonik
Member
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
LOL damn I miss that picture
HappyPuppy
Member
Fuck! that picture, haven't seen it in a while and it still makes me laugh. The virtual fighter one cracks me up. Funny that I'm now a KoF fan so it fits for me >_< ¡El rey de los Dinosaurios!
Funny how people go "but wrestling" to explain her original costume but forget that.... wrestling is ... well, wrestling
So yeah, that drawing would make total sense and be an awesome Mika costume. They can even do the reveal in the wining pose
Those are mostly nameless/faceless henchmen and they aren't doing actual wrestling in that attire.
Arc Christelle
Member
No fan service here!
Her costume has a zipper all the way down her crotch? I did not know this. If that's her official attire, is Deviant Art at a loss for where to begin?
sixteen-bit
Member
lol @ Terry's face
