Chittagong
Gold Member
How bad?
so bad.
*heads on to read article*
so bad.
*heads on to read article*
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IGN: Exactly How Bad is the Nintendo Situation?
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
metalslimer
Member
No one but idiots have been arguing nintendo is going out of business, only them becoming irrelevant in the console sector. Also didn't they have double that amount like 5 years ago?
Escape Goat
Member
Nintendo as a hardware manufacturer isn't as important as its role as software developer. Mario, Link and Pokemon would survive if Nintendo bombed enough to close up shop.
Horse Armour
Member
Nintendo's financial situation is not going to put games on the table for starving Wii U owners though.
Cars 2 was ridiculously successful.
This has been said many times before but some people like ignoring it because it doesn't fit the narrative they want to push. The Wii U is in big trouble. That is 100% clear. Nintendo however is and will be fine and will continue to be fine for many decades to come. It's why all talk of them going third party has always been foolish on the part of the uninformed and down right lies and worse by those who clearly have access to the facts and actual numbers. This is why those "analyst" that keep jumping up and down saying Nintendo so get out of the hardware business, put their games on iOS, etc should be ignored.
Ricerocket
Member
So much money, yet Wii U comes out with no games for months, no competition, no marketing.
Having money in the bank does not mean the Wii U isn't doomed. Nor does it mean Nintendo's home console business isn't in trouble.
I think this article pisses me off because they are asking the wrong question; it's not: Will Nintendo go bankrupt in the next 5 years. The right question is: will Nintendo be forced to make major changes to their business model and/or management.
I think this article pisses me off because they are asking the wrong question; it's not: Will Nintendo go bankrupt in the next 5 years. The right question is: will Nintendo be forced to make major changes to their business model and/or management.
The problem for them is figuring out a strategy as to *how* to do that. It's not as simple as throwing money at the problem - the other two can easily outspend them. They need to figure out how to make a console that is sufficiently powerful to please third parties but also sufficiently cheap to develop for to turn a profit.
The Wii U, in my eyes, was absolutely an attempt at that; it certainly looks like it's been unsucessful at the first (although it does seem to be getting a minor foothold with small third parties and indies; Sony's doing better at that front, though.)
It's something of a sliding scale thing, here. The most high-profile third parties that it's good to get onboard are also the most expensive to satisfy. I do slightly agree with Nintendo in that I don't think the right solution is to give them everything they're asking for, but there's clearly scope to give them *more* than Nintendo are - just... how much?
One other thing, of course, is software: Nintendo are crippled somewhat at the moment because they're trying to give full support to two platforms. Sony aren't managing that right now, so it shouldn't be a great surprise that the smaller Nintendo is struggling (A disappointment, I'll admit; they ought to have planned better for it. But not a surprise)
As I've said a few times before: Endgame for Nintendo is absolutely merging of the console and handheld lines. They can consolidate software development to a single platform, they can release it as 'the followon for the 3DS' far sooner than they can justify releasing 'the followon for the Wii U', and if they're careful about it, they ought to be able to make it Wii U compatible.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why would that perform any better? Right now, the problem with the Wii U is that is is really only selling and appealing to the Nintendo fanbase. If you launch a console of comparable power to PS4/Xbone two years after PS4 and Xbone have intrenched themselves, how are you in any better of a position? Aren't you still just selling to the Nintendo fanbase? Aren't you still just appealing to people that want Mario and Zelda and Mario Kart?
I disagree. Even though they're not even in the same league with other manufacturers where specifications are concerned, I do think Nintendo brings a lot of good and interesting ideas to the table with their consoles and handhelds that make them equally as important as their competitors.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Do pissed stock holders somehow make the 5 billion in the bank useless?
I'm seriously asking, I don't know how it works at all.
If it has comparable speccs, they can attract third party developers, and still do their valuable Nintendo franchises.
The Wii U is a loss they can weather. The real issue is whether they learn anything from it. We've seen from so many tech firms that once you start that slide into irrelevance it takes a lot of effort and money to even begin to correct course, let alone get right back to success. Once you lose customers to a competitor it's really hard to get them back again.
Look at Nokia and RIM. They basically lost their market to new competitors because they were sleeping. By the time they woke up and started putting great, relevant handsets out there again their customers had already found new brands to be loyal to.
The drought at the end of the Wii's life as well as the botched Wii U launch has given their competitors nearly three years to steal their customers away. It's going to take more blue ocean thinking and a lot of investment to get them back again.
Look at Nokia and RIM. They basically lost their market to new competitors because they were sleeping. By the time they woke up and started putting great, relevant handsets out there again their customers had already found new brands to be loyal to.
The drought at the end of the Wii's life as well as the botched Wii U launch has given their competitors nearly three years to steal their customers away. It's going to take more blue ocean thinking and a lot of investment to get them back again.
The answer is probably 'forever'. Nintendo's handheld division is still profitable and successful despite the market being harsher than ever before. If Nintendo decided there was no place for them In the home space anymore, the portables would likely only get stronger as a result. But that scenario is a decade away at the earliest. It's more likely that Nintendo manage to turn a meager profit on the Wii U and resolve to try harder next time. We're talking about the company that made money on the gamecube.
Ninja Scooter
Member
But if people can already get those games on their PS4 and XBones, how will that gain them any ground? It would be the Gamecube all over again, only if the Gamecube came out 2-3 years after PS2 and Xbox. It would have been in even worse shape.
The problem Nintendo seems to have is that people think gamers and consumers will still flock to them just because of their name. That's not going to happen.
dragonflys545
Member
Focus on portable only.
Not so much in the critical reception. Pixar was renowned for having a perfect track record until Cars 2, which was their first "rotten" movie on RottenTomatoes.
Much like how Nintendo's had a pretty good track record with consoles--NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii--which were all successful in one for or another. The Wii U is their first serious trouble.
Moon_frogger
Member
I thought neogaf was known for its intolerance for this kind of low brow trolling? It's kind of sad that a lot of really great posters have to wait months and years to get an account here
Sure, if you want the situation to worsen.
Also possibly expand their physical toy offerings as well and diversify into other areas like animation. They've dipped their toes in both over the years. More recently on the animation front with producing the Kid Icarus Uprising shorts and the Pikmin 3 animation shorts that are suppose to come out. It might be good for them to expand there anyway I think.
Moon_frogger
Member
Cars 2 was an excellent sequel that took a lot of risks in my opinion. The critics are insane
Claude Kenni
Member
The article says they have about as much cash as they do short term investments so that adds up to the figure people have floated for a while. No indication they're bleeding money and that's a great sign since having that much money to fall back on helps greatly if things get even more dire. And in response to Dave I think the fact that they're not burning through the money even with two consecutive bad launches means they really can weather bad times like this and not be in trouble overall.
It seems like Nintendo's biggest concern this gen is making the Wii U as profitable as possible. A Gamecube scenario clearly isn't favorable but it's a lot better than a Sega Saturn/Dreamcast scenario.
Looking forward though Nintendo will have to evaluate what strategy they can use with their next home console. Sony and MS having successful consoles with longer lifespans at price points Nintendo can't launch at means much more thought needs to go into their next console than there was for the Wii U.
Manmademan
Member
article misses the point completely.
Nintendo has lots of cash on hand. fine, great, whatever. they can handle bleeding losses for a while.
This doesn't really help the fact they've lost the core audience entirely, and the Nintendo hardcore is shrinking.
3 out of the last 4 home consoles have been failures, selling significantly less than the market leader. and no, the gamecube was not profitable. Nintendo lost money on it as soon as it went to $99. It was the GBA that carried the company that gen.
the bright spot is that handhelds are their strong point, but that audience is competing with tablets and smartphones more and more every year. The 3DS is selling less than the DS did, and the DS at least had viable competition in the psp. The vita is a joke platform right now.
So Nintendo has demonstrated it can't compete well in the console space (which IS growing, although slowly) while marketshare for handhelds is shrinking.
long term this strategy isn't viable. will they be fine next year? sure. 5 years? probably. Beyond that? doubtful.
Nintendo has lots of cash on hand. fine, great, whatever. they can handle bleeding losses for a while.
This doesn't really help the fact they've lost the core audience entirely, and the Nintendo hardcore is shrinking.
3 out of the last 4 home consoles have been failures, selling significantly less than the market leader. and no, the gamecube was not profitable. Nintendo lost money on it as soon as it went to $99. It was the GBA that carried the company that gen.
the bright spot is that handhelds are their strong point, but that audience is competing with tablets and smartphones more and more every year. The 3DS is selling less than the DS did, and the DS at least had viable competition in the psp. The vita is a joke platform right now.
So Nintendo has demonstrated it can't compete well in the console space (which IS growing, although slowly) while marketshare for handhelds is shrinking.
long term this strategy isn't viable. will they be fine next year? sure. 5 years? probably. Beyond that? doubtful.
dragonflys545
Member
Nothing will change this year for the Wii U(sales will remain mediocre). I can see it selling a ton once MK8 and Smash comes out, but that's next year.
Graphics Horse
Member
Not doomed but it looks like a waste of time and effort which could have been spent making more 3DS games and 3rd Analog Stick peripherals.
I bet even releasing a Wii Fit 3 last year would have done better than holding back for a Wii U version.
I bet even releasing a Wii Fit 3 last year would have done better than holding back for a Wii U version.
Them having Pokemon, Mario Party, and Monhun affords them the opportunity to shift over to getting titles out for the console.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Or at the very least priced accordingly.
GrizzledGrump
Banned
Every company misfires on a product every now and then. Sony does on a frequent basis. So does Microsoft. Why give Nintendo a hard time?
I still think Nintendo should just focus on the mobile market and go third party for home consoles.
I still think Nintendo should just focus on the mobile market and go third party for home consoles.
While the company is solvent they are operating at a loss in gaming. Long term that is not sustainable and strategically the company is doing badly as well. Not doomed and the financial resources are available to attempt future success. I am interested to see if they revamp their online with a real account system or make quadruple A Mario games. Unlike Sega, Nintendo can make any moves they dream up.
Stone Ocean
Member
This.
Nintendo will still be very fine since they still have plenty of profitable venues, but the Wii U is a walking corpse.
dcx4610
Member
As long as there are Nintendo fans, they can survive. I just wish they were relevant on the big stage still and competing for #1. I just don't think they belong in the hardware business anymore with how they have lost touch.
At least with the N64 and Gamecube, you had other games you could buy that were good. The Wii U is slowly turning into a 1st party box to play Nintendo games all for the low price of $350.
Nintendo may survive a flop but how do they win 3rd party back the next console? They are going to have to do something radical like a Gameboy/Console hybrid, a tablet or a phone. Another console just isn't going to survive the market.
At least with the N64 and Gamecube, you had other games you could buy that were good. The Wii U is slowly turning into a 1st party box to play Nintendo games all for the low price of $350.
Nintendo may survive a flop but how do they win 3rd party back the next console? They are going to have to do something radical like a Gameboy/Console hybrid, a tablet or a phone. Another console just isn't going to survive the market.
metalslimer
Member
Also if Nintendo had invested a fraction of that money into western game studios and deals they would be in a much better position. The N64 might not have sold great but Rare was a lifesaver. They continue to operate in a japanese bubble as the majority of the industry shifts elsewhere.
dragonflys545
Member
It does, but it's not really gonna help get those games out any faster... They're still coming out next year, and if Pikmin 3 was an indication, I expect more delays from them. They are years late into HD game development, and now they're paying for it.
Manmademan
Member
agree here. Rare should never have been sold. Nintendo needs new studios and IP. that 5 billion should have bought thq when it was on firesale and ninty should be throwing every dollar they have to buy atlus now that index is for sale.
we won't see that though, just more Mario.
I fail to see how investments in western game studios guarantee a better position...? I think a deal like the Fire Emblem X SMT-game is a way better postion to be in. Same goes for the Platinum-games exclusives. It makes a Wii U worthwile.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Why would Nintendo want to waste money buying IPs that weren't popular enough to keep THQ from going bankrupt?
They'll live, but they're risking five years of irrelevance on the console side. That's five years where a potential audience (children) will grow up unexposed to Nintendo games and therefore, miss out completely on becoming repeat customers with ingrained attachments to their franchises.
A lost generation is a lost opportunity for Nintendo to replenish their depleting base of hardcore fans. That doesn't "doom" them now, but it spells trouble for the future.
A lost generation is a lost opportunity for Nintendo to replenish their depleting base of hardcore fans. That doesn't "doom" them now, but it spells trouble for the future.
This is probably the most realistic problem Nintendo is facing right now. You can even see it on the handheld front and 3DS isn't at all in the same position.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I understand finances are not this simple but considering how much money Nintendo have, what is preventing them from reducing the price of the Wii U?
Most of you cite the lack of games as the issue but clearly the price is a huge barrier.
Remove the basic sku, drop the premium to $199/£149.99 and get some momentum going into the holiday period.
Most of you cite the lack of games as the issue but clearly the price is a huge barrier.
Remove the basic sku, drop the premium to $199/£149.99 and get some momentum going into the holiday period.
Well THQ went bankrupt making a modern console followup to a wii game which used a tablet. Nintendo would have felt familar working with them.
Manmademan
Member
THQs problem wasn't it's ip, it's problem was that it was badly managed.
Nintendo desperately needs to expand it's audience, and some of those IP had broad appeal...enough for many companies to pick them up after thq was scrapped.
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