Support NeoGAF

[MrSardonic]

But he still thinks mouse and keyboard is better and that it will remain better.

Ok.

I'll wait and see what proper gamers are capable of with the Wiimote FPS system.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

More bad than good in this interview.



What the hell does this mean:


Q: Do you think that bluetooth headset support will be added?
A: Probably not. Maybe? Who knows. (They go off on a friend code tangeant) Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree uses system friend codes. Not game. Matt thinks it should happen with Battalion Wars II.

 

[ethelred]

Q: What's happening with Camelot?
A: Nobody knows. They're working on some PC games.

I can't help but wonder how much got done with the GCN/Wii RPG Camelot had been making -- I wish that project would've been completed somehow, even if Nintendo had to turn it over to someone else.

Q: Do you see the state of 3rd party Wii support changing by the end of the year?
A: Yes. Sales talk.

...

Q: Any other big third party games?
A: Nothing too big, but a couple.

Uh huh. Get back to us when there's something concrete -- until then we're all looking at My Word Training and Carnival Minigames and EA Bratzground.

Q: Wii getting any RPGs? Namely, Atlus?
A: Matt thinks Atlus will join Wii because of DS support. Matt thinks Monolith Soft will make some RPGs. Says there's "no doubt about it".

Um, yeah. While I agree there's no doubt about the fact that Monolith Soft will make some RPGs (besides the fact they're almost 100% an RPG company, they've already specifically confirmed Wii RPGs in development)... the Atlus thing is a massive, massive leap.

He thinks Atlus will "join" Wii because of DS support? Poor reasoning -- what DS support? They've made two notable games for the platform (Trauma Center and Etrian Odyssey), so there really hasn't been an outpouring of support by Atlus for the DS. Unless Matt's talking about Atlus USA, which should clue is in as to how clueless he is on the subject -- because Atlus USA only localizes games made by other companies, and for them to be productive on the Wii would require a slew of other Japanese companies to fall in line about the Wii, too, and that hasn't happened yet.

It's possible Atlus over in Japan (you know, the guys that make the games) will be a huge Wii backer, as they're a small publisher facing financial considerations as they move into next-gen development, and the Wii is the leading platform over in Japan... but the reasoning Matt lays out to get to this conclusion is flawed all to hell. There are just as many pieces of evidence to suggest they won't move to the Wii -- their three most recent game announcements/releases (Odin Sphere, Growlanser 6, P3 Fes) are all PS2 (if the Devil Summoner sequel rumors turn out to be true, that'll be four), and they've already confirmed Shin Megami Tensei for PS3.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Ok.

I'll wait and see what proper gamers are capable of with the Wiimote FPS system.

But I read he was also bitchin that he couldn't play MP3 at the summit so he didn't play the latest version. But yeah I'll take the wait and see approach as well.

 

[Hero]

There are just as many pieces of evidence to suggest they won't move to the Wii -- their three most recent game announcements/releases (Odin Sphere, Growlanser 6, P3 Fes) are all PS2 (if the Devil Summoner sequel rumors turn out to be true, that'll be four), and they've already confirmed Shin Megami Tensei for PS3.

Those PS2 games have been in development before PS3/Wii was released, why is that counter-evidence to Atlus not moving to Wii?

I fully expect Atlus to jump ship considering that at the rate things have been going, Wii will achieve 3 million hardware install base when PS3 reaches their first million.

 

[grandjedi6]

More bad than good in this interview.



What the hell does this mean:


Q: Do you think that bluetooth headset support will be added?
A: Probably not. Maybe? Who knows. (They go off on a friend code tangeant) Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree uses system friend codes. Not game. Matt thinks it should happen with Battalion Wars II.

Matt wants headset support with Battalion Wars II. The biggest flaw with this podcast is that it mixes Matt's opinion with facts.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

State of third-party support in Wii is disappointing, to say the least. We all thought increased sales and popularity would translate into real support, but it hasn't happened. Pubs are instead acknowledging the Wii by throwing second-tier projects on it.

What will it take for publishers/devs to take the platform seriously, to put real effort into games for the machine?

Judging by the reactions from 1up, GAF, so many other outlets, it seems there is some built-in resistance to Nintendo that pervades the industry. Is it possible that third-parties will hold out even if Wii sales continue to skyrocket? And if they do, leaving Wii with big droughts that first-party can't fill, could they sabotage the Wii, could they sink the ship with indifference?

Or worse yet, if things continue as they are, how many devs will PS3 take down with it? Is the 360 alone -- with decent hardware sales and solid software -- enough to keep the industry from contracting?

 

[StevieP]

ghostlyjoe - just a reminder that it takes minimum a year for good, ground-up projects. This time last year, the PS3 was going to win, the 360 in second, and the Wii with even less marketshare than before ("a niche niche"). You're going to get second-tier (or fourth-tier) stuff until 2008. Sales numbers don't get ignored by publishers who want to keep afloat.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

ghostlyjoe - just a reminder that it takes minimum a year for good, ground-up projects. This time last year, the PS3 was going to win, the 360 in second, and the Wii with even less marketshare than before ("a niche niche"). You're going to get second-tier (or fourth-tier) stuff until 2008. Sales numbers don't get ignored by publishers who want to keep afloat.

If there aren't big third-party announcements at E3, then are you sure they're coming? The fact that nothing promising is being announced or even hinted at can't be a good sign. I'm losing hope when it comes to Wii support. Nintendo has been going it alone for a full generation and a half, and now they're pulling into an industry-leading position. Unless other companies start to get behind the Wii, it seems inevitable that either the Wii will stall, or the rest of the industry will just get left behind. Both are pretty poor scenarios.

 

[Dark Ninja]

More bad than good in this interview.



What the hell does this mean:


Q: Do you think that bluetooth headset support will be added?
A: Probably not. Maybe? Who knows. (They go off on a friend code tangeant) Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree uses system friend codes. Not game. Matt thinks it should happen with Battalion Wars II.

It means that matt thinks that headset support should happen with Battalion Wars II
because how can you tell your friend where to go if you can't talk to them.

 

[grandjedi6]

If there aren't big third-party announcements at E3, then are you sure they're coming? The fact that nothing promising is being announced or even hinted at can't be a good sign. I'm losing hope when it comes to Wii support. Nintendo has been going it alone for a full generation and a half, and now they're pulling into an industry-leading position. Unless other companies start to get behind the Wii, it seems inevitable that either the Wii will stall, or the rest of the industry will just get left behind. Both are pretty poor scenarios.

There will be, the industry follows the money.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Just because people don't like the types of support Nintendo is getting doesn't mean its not there. For example - what do PS3/360 get? The types of big third party games for those systems - for example the Tom Clancy set of games do not fit well and are ignored when they are on Wii because of graphical limitations. People want a big gamer oriented type game exclusive to the Wii - and thats probably rarely going to happen with the graphical limitations. Nintendo has got a great amount of support from EA and Ubi Soft - its just no one wants these games more than the higher graphics version, and this is always going to be the case.

 

[ethelred]

Those PS2 games have been in development before PS3/Wii was released, why is that counter-evidence to Atlus not moving to Wii?

Um, okay. The fact that Atlus has three pretty big PS2 releases this year (one of which was just announced a few weeks ago) and maybe a fourth big PS2 release on the way is certainly not indicative of the company chomping at the bit to jump into next-gen, Wii or otherwise. Nearly everyone else has moved on already -- Konami, Square Enix... hell, even Scamco! But Atlus keeps churning out PS2 games.

As long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform for these games, why we make an assumptive leap that they're going to be going full force into Wii development... particularly when the genre of games the company primarily creates has yet to find any sort of substantial success on the platform, and the one launch game that they did make for the system tanked in Japan?

I'm sorry if you don't see any of this as countering the notion that Atlus of Japan is eager to become a major Wii publisher; I, on the other hand, think it presents a pretty strong case that they have no such anticipation.

I fully expect Atlus to jump ship considering that at the rate things have been going, Wii will achieve 3 million hardware install base when PS3 reaches their first million.

That userbase size won't matter too much if it's enough to meet the company's niche fan demands. Point me to the "cult RPG audience" in the Wii's 3 million install base, and then we can talk. Frankly, the company can keep riding the PS2 gravy train all it wants until the PS3 reaches the point where it can meet their needs.

There's really nothing to suggest at this point that they're shifting into Ninty's lap. Nothing.

 

[underfooter]

The wii does have pretty disapointing third party support, but I fully expect it to be better next year after dev's have had time with games. I expect Project Rygar, FFCC, Dewey's Adventure, and the spielberg game.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Just because people don't like the types of support Nintendo is getting doesn't mean its not there. For example - what do PS3/360 get? The types of big third party games for those systems - for example the Tom Clancy set of games do not fit well and are ignored when they are on Wii because of graphical limitations. People want a big gamer oriented type game exclusive to the Wii - and thats probably rarely going to happen with the graphical limitations. Nintendo has got a great amount of support from EA and Ubi Soft - its just no one wants these games more than the higher graphics version, and this is always going to be the case.

That's a flawed analysis. The Wii is capable of matching or exceeding the best graphics of last gen. Is anyone complaining about God of War 2? The Wii is capable of that and more. Graphics is only a part of the equation here. Core games are possible on Wii, and it's possible for core games to sell well on Wii. It's also possible for core games to be re-exhilerated by use of the Wiimote. See Blur, Godfather, Madden, etc. But the hardcore community is clearly resistant right now, and many people seem desperate to shove Wii into "casual" corner. But mainstream drives the industry. So, by ignoring Wii or excluding it on the basis of perceived limiations, gamers and pubs alike are risking being sealed into a corner of their own -- a tiny, unlit, unprofitable corner.

 

[Tristam]

Um, okay. The fact that Atlus has three pretty big PS2 releases this year (one of which was just announced a few weeks ago) and maybe a fourth big PS2 release on the way is certainly not indicative of the company chomping at the bit to jump into next-gen, Wii or otherwise. Nearly everyone else has moved on already -- Konami, Square Enix... hell, even Scamco! But Atlus keeps churning out PS2 games.

As long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform for these games, why we make an assumptive leap that they're going to be going full force into Wii development... particularly when the genre of games the company primarily creates has yet to find any sort of substantial success on the platform, and the one launch game that they did make for the system tanked in Japan?

I'm sorry if you don't see any of this as countering the notion that Atlus of Japan is eager to become a major Wii publisher; I, on the other hand, think it presents a pretty strong case that they have no such anticipation.



That userbase size won't matter too much if it's enough to meet the company's niche fan demands. Point me to the "cult RPG audience" in the Wii's 3 million install base, and then we can talk. Frankly, the company can keep riding the PS2 gravy train all it wants until the PS3 reaches the point where it can meet their needs.

There's really nothing to suggest at this point that they're shifting into Ninty's lap. Nothing.

Nippon Ichi appears poised to. I don't see why Atlus wouldn't make the leap. Isn't Trauma Center: Second Opinion their highest selling game in North America in...well...ever?

 

[ghostlyjoe]

That userbase size won't matter too much if it's enough to meet the company's niche fan demands. Point me to the "cult RPG audience" in the Wii's 3 million install base, and then we can talk. Frankly, the company can keep riding the PS2 gravy train all it wants until the PS3 reaches the point where it can meet their needs.

There's really nothing to suggest at this point that they're shifting into Ninty's lap. Nothing.

Interesting. But would you agree that missing out on a potentially lucrative user base is a bad business move? The point isn't that the PS2 is a poor platform for Atlus software. That's not the case at all. But how much life does the PS2 have left? Is there a point where Atlus MUST jump onto next gen?

Also, wasn't a Trauma Center a success worldwide?

 

[ethelred]

I don't see why Atlus wouldn't make the leap. Isn't Trauma Center: Second Opinion their highest selling game in North America in...well...ever?

Yes (or well on track to be)... but as I noted, it's not Atlus USA that makes the games, it's Atlus Japan, and Trauma Center SO is their lowest selling game since... well, the last Trauma Center! Success for Trauma Center in the US does not make a case for success for Shin Megami Tensei (or its assorted spinoffs and subseries) -- and that's Atlus of Japan's bread and butter.

Interesting. But would you agree that missing out on a potentially lucrative user base is a bad business move?

Depends on how lucrative that userbase is for the games Atlus specializes in. As I said, point me to the success of cult, niche RPGs on there at the moment -- or a reason to think they would do well there besides "well, it's sold two million..."

How about this: let's wait till Opoona comes out. If it is a sales success, we're in business. If it bombs, then where's that leave Atlus?

The point isn't that the PS2 is a poor platform for Atlus software. That's not the case at all. But how much life does the PS2 have left? Is there a point where Atlus MUST jump onto next gen?

Sure, but it does not necessarily follow that "next gen" must equal "Wii."

Also, wasn't a Trauma Center a success worldwide?

No, it bombed in Japan. Has it even been released in Europe, where Atlus has no branch?

 

[grandjedi6]

Its likely Atlus will continue to support the Wii but its not definite

 

[Grecco]

LOL at the Luke Smith thing. Matt Fears Luke.

 

[Hero]

Um, okay. The fact that Atlus has three pretty big PS2 releases this year (one of which was just announced a few weeks ago) and maybe a fourth big PS2 release on the way is certainly not indicative of the company chomping at the bit to jump into next-gen, Wii or otherwise. Nearly everyone else has moved on already -- Konami, Square Enix... hell, even Scamco! But Atlus keeps churning out PS2 games.

As long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform for these games, why we make an assumptive leap that they're going to be going full force into Wii development... particularly when the genre of games the company primarily creates has yet to find any sort of substantial success on the platform, and the one launch game that they did make for the system tanked in Japan?

I'm sorry if you don't see any of this as countering the notion that Atlus of Japan is eager to become a major Wii publisher; I, on the other hand, think it presents a pretty strong case that they have no such anticipation.

Why do you keep spewing off the fact that the PS2 is getting Atlus games as an indicator that it's going to continue for the next few years? Those games have been in development for a while now and wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the last games PS2 ever got.

You say as long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform, there's hardly that many PS2 new releases ever in the charts. The PS2 has momentum but by this point next year I don't think any developer or publisher will think the PS2 will maximize their game sales.

That userbase size won't matter too much if it's enough to meet the company's niche fan demands. Point me to the "cult RPG audience" in the Wii's 3 million install base, and then we can talk. Frankly, the company can keep riding the PS2 gravy train all it wants until the PS3 reaches the point where it can meet their needs.

There's really nothing to suggest at this point that they're shifting into Ninty's lap. Nothing.

I think it's really laughable that you want me to point to the cult RPG audience for the Wii then mention the PS3 in the next sentence. As things are right now, the PS3 is a 'niche' system. While Atlus could ride the PS2 gravy train, like I said, I really doubt there's much incentive for them to continue doing so. The PS2 only had 5 games in the top 50 chart for Media Create sales for the week of 5/14. That can happen right now because it's still early in the current generation but logic would tend to say that as time goes on, PS2 games selling well will become rarer and rarer.

But hey, whatever, believe in whatever logic you want to. I'll be sure to remind you of this thread when Atlus starts to announce Wii titles.

 

[ZealousD]

Why would Matt punch Luke Smith? (Merely because Luke made that comment about Matt being married to someone from Nintendo?)

Luke has insinuted that Matt is having an affair with Perrin Kaplan several times, and because of that IGN gets alot of exclusive Nintendo content.

And he's even gone on the record to say that he wasn't joking about it.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Why do you keep spewing off the fact that the PS2 is getting Atlus games as an indicator that it's going to continue for the next few years? Those games have been in development for a while now and wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the last games PS2 ever got.

You say as long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform, there's hardly that many PS2 new releases ever in the charts. The PS2 has momentum but by this point next year I don't think any developer or publisher will think the PS2 will maximize their game sales.




I think it's really laughable that you want me to point to the cult RPG audience for the Wii then mention the PS3 in the next sentence. As things are right now, the PS3 is a 'niche' system. While Atlus could ride the PS2 gravy train, like I said, I really doubt there's much incentive for them to continue doing so. The PS2 only had 5 games in the top 50 chart for Media Create sales for the week of 5/14. That can happen right now because it's still early in the current generation but logic would tend to say that as time goes on, PS2 games selling well will become rarer and rarer.

But hey, whatever, believe in whatever logic you want to. I'll be sure to remind you of this thread when Atlus starts to announce Wii titles.

Dragon Quest Swords and Final Fantasy CC will likely bring in some RPG gamers. They might not be "real" RPGs, but they have the name that sells.

Anyway, I'd be really pissed off if developers didn't support the Wii. It's obviously got the momentum, it should get some games.

 

[ethelred]

Why do you keep spewing

Oh, am I spewing? Great way to frame the debate. Why not toss in words like "bilious" and "odious," too? Spice things up a bit!

...off the fact that the PS2 is getting Atlus games as an indicator that it's going to continue for the next few years? Those games have been in development for a while now and wouldn't be surprised if they were some of the last games PS2 ever got.

But the fact is they're still being developed for the PS2, and not for the Wii. As I said, there's no indication Atlus has an overwhelming desire to move onto that platform -- if the desire was such, they could have shifted these games elsewhere.

You say as long as the PS2 continues to be a good platform, there's hardly that many PS2 new releases ever in the charts.

Yeah, but one of those new PS2 releases is Atlus's Odin Sphere... and oh, there's P3 Fes, too, which has turned out to be quite the little windfall of a game.

I think it's really laughable that you want me to point to the cult RPG audience for the Wii then mention the PS3 in the next sentence. As things are right now, the PS3 is a 'niche' system.

PS3 is a niche system, Atlus has a niche audience of hardcore gamers -- I don't see the dilemma here. What system lineup is more likely to attract the gamers Atlus seeks? The one with Mist of Chaos, Folks Soul, Final Fantasy, and, oh, Shin Megami Tensei? Or the one with Wii Sports and Enishi no Tatsujin? (please note: this is a trick question)

While Atlus could ride the PS2 gravy train, like I said, I really doubt there's much incentive for them to continue doing so.

It has the userbase that contains their specific targeted audience of gamers.

But hey, whatever, believe in whatever logic you want to. I'll be sure to remind you of this thread when Atlus starts to announce Wii titles.

Sure! Please note that at no point have I said "Atlus will not make any more Wii games." I said the assumptive leap that was being made by Matt Cassamassina was extremely faulty, the reasoning he provided had no basis in reality, and there's as much evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the PS3 as there is evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the Wii.

But if you want to play "gotcha!" instead of having an honest discussion, that's okay too.

Dragon Quest Swords and Final Fantasy CC will likely bring in some RPG gamers.

Don't forget Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon.

Anyway, I'd be really pissed off if developers didn't support the Wii.

Yes, that much is apparent.

It's obviously got the momentum, it should get some games.

It's not entitled to anything. Nintendo chose a "unique" model of development that lays out a philosophy not every publisher is going to agree with -- it's in no way entitled to their support.

 

[Wiitard]

Oh, am I spewing? Great way to frame the debate. Why not toss in words like "bilious"
Sure! Please note that at no point have I said "Atlus will not make any more Wii games." I said the assumptive leap that was being made by Matt Cassamassina was extremely faulty, the reasoning he provided had no basis in reality, and there's as much evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the PS3 as there is evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the Wii.

Wow. All very resonable untill that and then... WOW.

There is plenty of evidence indicating that any small Japan oriented publisher would go anywhere - DS, PSP, Wii - other then PS3 (except the 360, of course).

 

[Tristam]

PS3 is a niche system, Atlus has a niche audience of hardcore gamers -- I don't see the dilemma here. What system lineup is more likely to attract the gamers Atlus seeks? The one with Mist of Chaos, Folks Soul, Final Fantasy, and, oh, Shin Megami Tensei? Or the one with Wii Sports and Enishi no Tatsujin? (please note: this is a trick question)



It has the userbase that contains their specific targeted audience of gamers.

Final Fantasy is in no way niche, and there's no indication the actual niche games will sell well (given the current software attach rate). Many, many people will buy Final Fantasy and ignore games that Atlus develops.

I agree that there's no strong evidence that Atlus will put a lot of support behind Wii, but there's perhaps less that they'll develop for PS3.

 

[ethelred]

There is plenty of evidence indicating that any small Japan oriented publisher would go anywhere - DS, PSP, Wii - other then PS3 (except the 360, of course).

...there's perhaps less that they'll develop for PS3.

Aside from the fact that they actually have a Shin Megami Tensei game formally announced for the system, right? I mean, that's evidence, isn't it? Kinda? Just a little bit? Teensy weensy bit of evidence?

 

[Tristam]

Aside from the fact that they actually have a Shin Megami Tensei game formally announced for the system, right? I mean, that's evidence, isn't it? Kinda? Just a little bit? Teensy weensy bit of evidence?

We don't know if it's even part of the main series or a gaiden, and it was announced when? 2005? Has there been any new information since then?

 

[jj984jj]

Aside from the fact that they actually have a Shin Megami Tensei game formally announced for the system, right? I mean, that's evidence, isn't it?

Atlus's JP PR department confirmed Shin Megami Tensei for the DS as well, that doesn't mean it was in development. We really don't know if R&D1 started a PS3 SMT, what platform they make the next game for is still speculation at this point.

 

[Hero]

But the fact is they're still being developed for the PS2, and not for the Wii. As I said, there's no indication Atlus has an overwhelming desire to move onto that platform -- if the desire was such, they could have shifted these games elsewhere.

Are you seriously this thick headed? I've already stated my point in regards to this twice now but I will try to put it across as obvious as I can. Yes, Atlus still has PS2 games that are going to come out. When Atlus starts to announce "new" games (as in things they have never mentioned before) for the PS2, then we can say that Atlus is opting to continue to support the PS2 instead of any of the next generation systems.

Yeah, but one of those new PS2 releases is Atlus's Odin Sphere... and oh, there's P3 Fes, too, which has turned out to be quite the little windfall of a game.

Okay. These games have been in development for a while, and I expect Odin Sphere to drop like a rock next week. Which is unfortunate, considering how good it is.

PS3 is a niche system, Atlus has a niche audience of hardcore gamers -- I don't see the dilemma here. What system lineup is more likely to attract the gamers Atlus seeks? The one with Mist of Chaos, Folks Soul, Final Fantasy, and, oh, Shin Megami Tensei? Or the one with Wii Sports and Enishi no Tatsujin? (please note: this is a trick question)

You're assuming that everyone who owns a PS3 is the same niche person who buys hardcore RPGs. It's common sense that if you take a niche piece of hardware and try to sell a niche piece of software you're going to come up short. Even Gundam Musou couldn't help the PS3, and those were two very strong, popular PS2 brand names put together. I seriously doubt any Atlus published game would be able to do more than Gundam Musou did.

It has the userbase that contains their specific targeted audience of gamers.

Here's the problem though, at some point in time, the userbase either migrates to a newer piece of hardware or just stops buying games. If this weren't true, people would still be making NES games. From what we've seen so far in the past six months the indicator is that most people are jumping on the Wii train, and by people I mean both consumers and developers.

Sure! Please note that at no point have I said "Atlus will not make any more Wii games." I said the assumptive leap that was being made by Matt Cassamassina was extremely faulty, the reasoning he provided had no basis in reality, and there's as much evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the PS3 as there is evidence to suggest Atlus will go to the Wii.

Matt Cassamassina knows a lot but his logic and deductions have proven to be wildly inaccurate over the years. If you had stated that was your point from the beginning, I wouldn't have said anything. However since we're on the subject, I think there's a bit of evidence pointing to the eventual Atlus support. Considering that Nippon Ichi is moving into Wii and DS contracts would seem to be a good indicator of what the niche developers are thinking. Considering, you know, Nippon Ichi has only ever made and released games for Playstation systems, I think that says a lot.

 

[Wiitard]

Aside from the fact that they actually have a Shin Megami Tensei game formally announced for the system, right? I mean, that's evidence, isn't it? Kinda? Just a little bit? Teensy weensy bit of evidence?

No. It not evidence of new, shifting suport at all.

 

[Sharp]

There are lots of publishers with games in the works for the Wii, are there not? And not just the latest minigame fests of the day--it's just that GAF as a collective is incapable of recalling information from more than about a month back, unless it happened five or more years ago. The Wii is getting more new game announcements than any other next-gen console at this point, so why all the moaning about craptacular third-party support? Because Ubisoft dumped another shit-fest on it?

 

[Eteric Rice]

There are lots of publishers with games in the works for the Wii, are there not? And not just the latest minigame fests of the day--it's just that GAF as a collective is incapable of recalling information from more than about a month back, unless it happened five or more years ago. The Wii is getting more new game announcements than any other next-gen console at this point, so why all the moaning about craptacular third-party support? Because Ubisoft dumped another shit-fest on it?

The only ones I can think of that might be any good are NiGHTs and Rygar. I don't recall any other big announcements, really.

 

[Tristam]

The only ones I can think of that might be any good are NiGHTs and Rygar. I don't recall any other big announcements, really.

Dewy's Adventure? Project O? Zack & Wiki? They may not be "OMG megatons," but I'd rather play those games than "OMG megatons" (including Rygar if you consider that a megaton of any kind).

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Depends on how lucrative that userbase is for the games Atlus specializes in. As I said, point me to the success of cult, niche RPGs on there at the moment -- or a reason to think they would do well there besides "well, it's sold two million..."

How about this: let's wait till Opoona comes out. If it is a sales success, we're in business. If it bombs, then where's that leave Atlus?

It's self-fulfilling though. RPG fans will go where the RPGs go, no? The question, really, is which console is most likely to find its RPG base? Odds we be on the console that sells exponentially more than its competition.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Dewy's Adventure? Project O? Zack & Wiki? They may not be "OMG megatons," but I'd rather play those games than "OMG megatons" (including Rygar if you consider that a megaton of any kind).

Project O and Dewy's are two I'm interested in. But I kinda meant more casual games.

 

[ethelred]

Are you seriously this thick headed?

I don't know, you tell me.

When Atlus starts to announce "new" games (as in things they have never mentioned before) for the PS2, then we can say that Atlus is opting to continue to support the PS2 instead of any of the next generation systems.

Um, okay... I mentioned Growlanser VI already, didn't I? That was a new announcement made less than two months ago, and it was something that had never been mentioned before.

Devil Summoner would be another.

Okay. These games have been in development for a while, and I expect Odin Sphere to drop like a rock next week. Which is unfortunate, considering how good it is.

But, you know, it still sold more in its first week than Etrian Odyssey has sold LTD.

You're assuming that everyone who owns a PS3 is the same niche person who buys hardcore RPGs. It's common sense that if you take a niche piece of hardware and try to sell a niche piece of software you're going to come up short. Even Gundam Musou couldn't help the PS3, and those were two very strong, popular PS2 brand names put together. I seriously doubt any Atlus published game would be able to do more than Gundam Musou did.

Atlus doesn't need to sell more than Gundam Musou (over 250k). Most of their games don't sell that well, anyway. But hey, like I said, let's wait and see Opoona's sales. Once that tanks, we can reevaluate things further.

Here's the problem though, at some point in time, the userbase either migrates to a newer piece of hardware or just stops buying games. If this weren't true, people would still be making NES games.

Nintendo released a Fire Emblem for the SNES in 1999.

Matt Cassamassina knows a lot but his logic and deductions have proven to be wildly inaccurate over the years.

That's true.

If you had stated that was your point from the beginning, I wouldn't have said anything.

I did.

Considering that Nippon Ichi is moving into Wii and DS contracts would seem to be a good indicator of what the niche developers are thinking. Considering, you know, Nippon Ichi has only ever made and released games for Playstation systems, I think that says a lot.

Get back to me when a game is actually announced. As of right now, though, there are just as many indications N1 intends to move to the PS3 as well.

And by the way, if we're going to assume one niche RPG publisher speaks for all niche RPG publishers (operating, I suppose, under the same maxim that leads all Christmas tree lights to die if one dies), it's worth noting that Idea Factory is proving quite prolific on both the 360 and PS3. Uh oh! Turbulent times ahead for the Wii!

 

[Amir0x]

Trauma Center was their most successful game ever, ethelred! Ever!

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

That's a flawed analysis. The Wii is capable of matching or exceeding the best graphics of last gen. Is anyone complaining about God of War 2? The Wii is capable of that and more. Graphics is only a part of the equation here. Core games are possible on Wii, and it's possible for core games to sell well on Wii. It's also possible for core games to be re-exhilerated by use of the Wiimote. See Blur, Godfather, Madden, etc. But the hardcore community is clearly resistant right now, and many people seem desperate to shove Wii into "casual" corner. But mainstream drives the industry. So, by ignoring Wii or excluding it on the basis of perceived limiations, gamers and pubs alike are risking being sealed into a corner of their own -- a tiny, unlit, unprofitable corner.

First off, its CAPABLE of doing it, but since its basically as powerful or a little more powerful than last generation systems - people shouldn't expect that standard game to look better than any of the great looking games of last generation. The standard Wii game will not look as good as Resident Evil 4, just as the standard GC didn't. The small amount of added power is not enough to make the standard game look like that. Also take in account there is absolutely no motivation from third parties to exploit the power when the focus is on the control - and when the focus is on the control and being low budget, etc - companies are just going to port assets from last generation to the Wii.

I'm just saying - the big third party games on PS3 or 360 that most people HERE like are ignored on Wii when they come over - or don't come over at all. Like Matt said - PC style companies who make games like FPS or MMORPG style (one player or not) games are not interested in making games for the Wii - and when those games do come over, like Tom Clancy, they are vastly inferior to other versions.

 

[Eteric Rice]

First off, its CAPABLE of doing it, but since its basically as powerful or a little more powerful than last generation systems - people shouldn't expect that standard game to look better than any of the great looking games of last generation. The standard Wii game will not look as good as Resident Evil 4, just as the standard GC didn't. The small amount of added power is not enough to make the standard game look like that. Also take in account there is absolutely no motivation from third parties to exploit the power when the focus is on the control - and when the focus is on the control and being low budget, etc - companies are just going to port assets from last generation to the Wii.

I'm just saying - the big third party games on PS3 or 360 that most people HERE like are ignored on Wii when they come over - or don't come over at all. Like Matt said - PC style companies who make games like FPS or MMORPG style (one player or not) games are not interested in making games for the Wii - and when those games do come over, like Tom Clancy, they are vastly inferior to other versions.

Double to triple isn't really a small amount. But I do suspect that we'll see bad looking games. But then again, all systems are going to have bad looking games.

I suspect eventually, Wii graphics will go past X-Box graphics, though. And I only suspect this because there were Gamecube games that rivaled X-Box games in many cases.

But in comparison to the PS2, the Wii is a lot more powerful.

As for western devs, I'm not worried about them. I, myself, mostly like Japanese games.

Trauma Center was their most successful game ever, ethelred! Ever!

It was a good one, too.

I haven't seen it in stores lately, which has me a bit worried...

 

[Tristam]

Trauma Center was their most successful game ever, ethelred! Ever!

I didn't qualify my statement with "in North America" at all. Nope.

Means your friend list in the game will be the same as your system friend list. No need to put in codes like with DS games or Mario Strikers.

It doesn't mean that it will. "Should" is ambiguous; it could mean Matt expects it to happen or that he wants it to happen.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think you can't simply compare userbase figures, as ethelred has pointed out. You have to look for Atlus' demographic, which, for some time will probably exist mainly on the PS2. Atlus will continue to develop/fund games for this niche...they did it last gen too and eventually moved over to the PS2 by developing a multigame engine that kept costs down.

Do you really think the hardcore Atlus RPG niche is moving in full force to Wii right away? That would seem to just miss the point...

And I'm glad Second Opinion sold as well as it did. It was a launch game with better distribution and rave reviews.

 

[Lathentar]

What the hell does this mean:


Q: Do you think that bluetooth headset support will be added?
A: Probably not. Maybe? Who knows. (They go off on a friend code tangeant) Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree uses system friend codes. Not game. Matt thinks it should happen with Battalion Wars II.

Means your friend list in the game will be the same as your system friend list. No need to put in codes like with DS games or Mario Strikers.

 

[grandjedi6]

Lets go over what we learned in this thread:

1.) Matt knows alot of info we don't and has many industry connections
2.) However Matt has a record of being wrong with his interpetations and predictions
3.) The Wii is selling well so it will most likely get more third party support
4.) Right now Atlus is supporting the PS2 and DS. Where they go after that is unknown but its likely to be the Wii or PS3 if not both.
5.) According to Matt, Manhunt 2 is fun and Mario Party 8 is mediocre
6.) Soul Calibur Legends might turn out to be a mediocre to bad game
7.) Retro is working on a new game

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Double to triple isn't really a small amount. But I do suspect that we'll see bad looking games. But then again, all systems are going to have bad looking games.

I suspect eventually, Wii graphics will go past X-Box graphics, though. And I only suspect this because there were Gamecube games that rivaled X-Box games in many cases.

But in comparison to the PS2, the Wii is a lot more powerful.

As for western devs, I'm not worried about them. I, myself, mostly like Japanese games.

Double and triple is NOT a lot when it comes to computing power. People seem to think that there's some sort of untapped power source thats just needs to be exploited in Wii. It's diminishing returns now, having 700 mhz or whatever it is versus the 350 or whatever GC's was, and a little bit more RAM is not a huge difference - especially since its the same type of architecture. Most PS3 and 360 games do not look like the exponential increase in power. 3 times in power does not equal three times in looks. People are going to be continuously disappointed in 99% of the new Wii games when they don't live up to some imaginary standard.

 

[jj984jj]

Lets go over what we learned in this thread:

1.) Matt knows alot of info we don't and has many industry connections
2.) However Matt has a record of being wrong with his interpetations and predictions
3.) The Wii is selling well so it will most likely get more third party support
4.) Right now Atlus is supporting the PS2 and DS. Where they go after that is unknown but its likely to be the Wii or PS3 if not both.
5.) According to Matt, Manhunt 2 is fun and Mario Party 8 is mediocre
6.) Soul Calibur Legends might turn out to be a mediocre to bad game
7.) Retro is working on a new game

Yup, that's about right.

Oh and it's great news for DDR fans that HP is not Mario Mix 2, though I suppose the look probably gave that away from the beginning.

 

[Amir0x]

Double and triple is NOT a lot when it comes to computing power. People seem to think that there's some sort of untapped power source thats just needs to be exploited in Wii. It's diminishing returns now, having 700 mhz or whatever it is versus the 350 or whatever GC's was, and a little bit more RAM is not a huge difference - especially since its the same type of architecture. Most PS3 and 360 games do not look like the exponential increase in power. 3 times in power does not equal three times in looks. People are going to be continuously disappointed in 99% of the new Wii games when they don't live up to some imaginary standard.

Wow does this honestly still need to be explained? It's so funny seeing people still parroting this 2-3x power thing... it's as if they have no idea how things work, and are still grasping to PR speak from 2 years ago to support it.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Wow does this honestly still need to be explained? It's so funny seeing people still parroting this 2-3x power thing... it's as if they have no idea how things work, and are still grasping to PR speak from 2 years ago to support it.

Umm ... are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I can't tell. I think you agree with me that people should stop pretending there's some untapped source of zero point energy inside the Wii and accept it.

 

[Amir0x]

Umm ... are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I can't tell. I think you agree with me that people should stop pretending there's some untapped source of zero point energy inside the Wii and accept it.

Agreeing! I can't believe to this day I still see people say "well, 2-3x power actually! Which is a whole lot!" I mean it's like "Is Perrin there licking your knob or something? Wake the **** up!"

 

[LCGeek]

First off, its CAPABLE of doing it, but since its basically as powerful or a little more powerful than last generation systems - people shouldn't expect that standard game to look better than any of the great looking games of last generation. The standard Wii game will not look as good as Resident Evil 4, just as the standard GC didn't. The small amount of added power is not enough to make the standard game look like that. Also take in account there is absolutely no motivation from third parties to exploit the power when the focus is on the control - and when the focus is on the control and being low budget, etc - companies are just going to port assets from last generation to the Wii.

I'm just saying - the big third party games on PS3 or 360 that most people HERE like are ignored on Wii when they come over - or don't come over at all. Like Matt said - PC style companies who make games like FPS or MMORPG style (one player or not) games are not interested in making games for the Wii - and when those games do come over, like Tom Clancy, they are vastly inferior to other versions.

Actually most people aren't insinuating there's some vast untapped power to the GC platform. Do most people actually listen to some of the comments some people in the nintendo camp are making about wii's abilities. Yes 2x-3x is not a lot of computational power but if you do basic math of what was already done in GC games the high bar is a lot higher for what you can do with any last gen game. Wii could pump out a title at 60fps, 30mil polys, self shadowing, good texturing (5-8 layers), and have a good set of shader effects yet I can say without a doubt no one has come close to that. Eggbrecht was right in saying no one has climbed the mountain F5 built or for that matter bothered to make their own. There's no excuse why devs are still pumping out out ps2 levels of crap, not even good ps2 graphics, on a architecture that is 6-7 years old and quite easy to tap as rouge leader 1 took 9 months. I'm not asking for an unrealistic expectation all games to exceed RS or RE4 I'm asking that devs start putting out titles that 1st and 2nd generation efforts on cube can't touch.

Matt's again is wrong about pc style companies not giving a crap. Gearbox is putting Ue3 on the system somehow and ID software specifically announced they were taking one their engines modifying it to be the best for Wii in terms of graphics. Stop listening to him on this subject sure he has access to info, but the interpetation is usually off or complete bunk. Why people listen to him anymore is beyond me rarely does he have good news or rumors to spill.