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[GrizzleBoy]

That was kind of a blunt statement that I should have probably left out or clarified more. Its not so much a disagreement with the protest against police brutality as much as I have an issue with both sides of this issue. One side seems to claim that every time an officer shoots a person of color, that its racially motivated or is a symptom of systematic oppression regardless of circumstances; the other side seems to side with the officer every single time, again, regardless of circumstances. From where I stand, it seems that many people on both sides of this issue dont have much of an interest in discussing this issue with any sort of honesty about it, which seems to prevent any kind of progress. I also believe that the flag should be respected as a symbol of American values and freedoms but my feelings have no bearing (nor should they) on the law or what these players are well within their rights to express.

Honestly, its probably wrong of me to associate the entire NFL kneeling protests to any kind of specific viewpoint on the issue without hearing from those participating specifically, but whenever these issues come up, people seem to dig into the trenches of whatever side they are on and stick to their narrative despite what the facts might suggest.

But again, regardless of how I feel, they are absolutely within their rights to be doing what they are doing. Although I dont agree with any such decisions, this also means that teams are in their rights to fire players and people to boycott the NFL in response.

What was the other side of the Castille/Tamir Rice/Trayvon Martin shootings, the "I cant breathe" choking to death and many recent studies showing entire police departments being systematically racist?

What part of the non police backing side is lacking honesty in these cases?

What is the "other side" of generally not wanting poorly trained and or racially biased officers accidentally murdering people?

What is the "other side" of not being happy with frequently falsified police reports, planted evidence and such?

I don't think your post really addresses why you don't agree with protest other than to slightly imply that theres some greater truth that needs to be accepted by both sides regarding these incidents and some sort of "why does it always have to be about race?" Argument.

You say that you have a problem with one side suggesting that every shooting of a minority is racially charged, when police are killing shit loads of people day in day out, and when the protests mainly come about in circumstances when people are killed for no reason or "just incase".

I don't know.

It's just weird that you have people out here raising awareness about what most non American western world citizens would call a joke of a corrupt and unregulated pseudo military with a license to kill that nobody should want to have in their country, and the response to that raising of awareness is that there's too much of a racial element to it and "why does it always have to be about race".

 

[Jmanunknown]

And I think your not understanding it's nuanced is bs . Don't talk shit just cause you disagree . Don't agree with me fine . Doesn't mean you can demean my opinions .

I am not saying anything that is not the truth. Colin Kaepernick started kneeling because he was tired of the United States criminal justice system and police officers treatment of minorities. The conversation shifted towards people getting mad about his protest because of their own personal feelings about his protest instead of why he was protesting in the first place. I could care less about your opinion especially when peoples lives are being snuffed out and destroyed all in the pursuit of maintaining the status quo.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

These kinds of political cartoons somewhat miss the point by always making the person opposed to protesting always look like the stereotypical redneck/racist.

Those aren't the only people who are the problem to be honest.

 

[teh_pwn]

Man. Some of y'all are really out of touch.

Certain people are upset because they lost grandparents, parents, siblings, and children in wars fought under that flag. That's all it is. It has nothing to do with BLM or minorities. Hell, a very large portion of the active military isn't white. They also see it as disrespect.

I'm a veteran and I'm not bothered by it since I see it as a simple expression of free speech, but I also came back from Afghanistan alive and with all my limbs. People who weren't so lucky (or who love/d someone who wasn't so lucky) might have a different perspective.

The flag doesn't just represent the US military. It represents the country, the bill of rights, freedom, including the freedom to free speech.

While I'm sure a good chunk of people do believe what you're saying, Trump certainly does not. If he did, he wouldn't have said that there are fine Nazis. Both of my grandfathers fought in World War 2 because there are no good Nazis - they are the enemy not just to the United States but what it represents and humanity in general.

 

[Ishan]

I am not saying anything that is not the truth. Colin Kaepernick started kneeling because he was tired of the United States criminal justice system and police officers treatment of minorities. The conversation shifted towards people getting mad about his protest because of their own personal feelings about his protest instead of why he was protesting in the first place. I could care less about your opinion especially when peoples lives are being snuffed out and destroyed all in the pursuit of maintaining the status quo.

Well then you're ridiculously entrenched in just your way of thinking . I dont care for a discussion with you either

 

[Jmanunknown]

Well then you're ridiculously entrenched in just your way of thinking . I dont care for a discussion with you either

I do not care for a discussion with you either but not because I think your entrenched in your opinion but because I think your being phony and really like doing the devils advocate thing. From my view it seems like you care more about peoples feelings and feeling morally superior than the actual lives of people.

 

[Kuroi Gogeta]

My dad does the whole "it's disrespecting the country and soldiers and the veterans who died for your freedom" and the "black people do have equality, there's nothing to protest" spiels.

It's a nonsense cycle because he often says how they should be glad that they have the freedom to say what they want and not be jailed, and if they aren't grateful for that, they can just move to North Korea....yet, he gets angry when people protest about Trump or kneel during the anthem (aka being able to say and protest how they want).

Every generation there are people like him.
"this civil rights movement is divisive, blacks have it way better now than they did in slavery. They're making a big fuss over nothing"
"Abolitionism is divisive, better the slave to be in the care of a white christian man, than in the savage jungles of Africa"

The people who don't suffer oppression never understand why people want to change things, and from their point of view the other group is just making a mountain out of a molehill. The people who are against those who protest are only against them out of a kneejerk reflexivity. There's no desire to understand why they're protesting or why they feel like they have to take it as far as they do. Critical analysis and introspection is too much work and it can reveal things about yourself that make you look bad.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

What card editor was that made with?

 

[Spuck-uk]

It's indoctrination. Most public school kids in America stand up and recite a loyalty pledge to our country and flag every single day from as young as five years old, and most go their whole lives never questioning it. That's pretty much all you need to understand.

Yeah, to the rest of the world, this is super weird. It's just a flag, I come from a military family in the UK, nobody gives a shite about our flag apart from right wing skinhead nutters and people at sporting events.

 

[Darksol]

Oh yeah, totally. That is what people are saying!

Edit: Canada sings it daily in school.

When I was in elementary school in Ontario two decades ago we didn't even do it then.

 

[the1npc]

When I was in elementary school in Ontario two decades ago we didn't even do it then.

We did in elementary in the 90s but never in high school

 

[More_Badass]

This is how the right and conservative news is twisting and spinning this to their audience, day in and day out, for hours every day

Billionaires and millionaires linking arms and taking knees in unity for what? There are brave men and women in real uniforms but you won't find them on the football field. You'll find them in the military and law enforcement. They're not famous. They're not rich. But they're our very best. They put their lives on the line everyday. And they're being disrespected.

Football players are not doctors who care for the sick, inventors who improve the quality of life, scientists who find breakthrough medicines, etc. They're fake activists. And they're increasingly fake entertainers.
The NFL has revealed itself to be a collection of spoiled narcissists where self-aggrandizing groupthink is celebrated. This isn't about free speech. It's about the American people, and particularly the fans, increasingly repulsed by the antics on the football field.

And a lot of people nod their head in agreement with that mindset

 

[Future]

It’s easy to distill any act of protest down to “you don’t respect what you have.” It’s a simple example of people not listening and instead superficially using these acts to advance their own narratives

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Remember this- while their parents, and grandparents, fought and died defeating Nazis, my fucking grandfather couldn't walk into a restaurant and sit down at the counter and eat his fucking lunch in Arkansas where he lived. We're pretending like the American flag is some pure symbol of goodness? Fuck that. It doesn't cut it for me. It's about racism. It's about wanting black Americans to know their place, to sit down and shut up and accept that society grinds their boot in our face.

Powerful stuff. Thank you for this.

Just say the N-word, Joe. You know you want to.

Wait... this Joe guy wasn't sarcastic?

Doesn't every country sing the anthem in school every morning?

lmao, shit no

Oh yeah, totally. That is what people are saying!

Edit: Canada sings it daily in school.

What? No we don't. Is this an RoC thing?!

Edit: some people in this thread said they don't do this in Ontario. They sure as shit don't do this in Québec. And I asked a friend who lived in BC and Alberta and said they don't do this there either. You're lying aren't you? Or you went to some backwards-ass shit school

shit

 

[HellforLeather]

What was the other side of the Castille/Tamir Rice/Trayvon Martin shootings, the "I cant breathe" choking to death and many recent studies showing entire police departments being systematically racist?

Corrupt departments should be investigated and the sources of the corruption should be prosecuted.

What part of the non police backing side is lacking honesty in these cases?

There are many cases that are decried as a racist cop executing a black victim when there is no information out there besides the race of the cop and the victim. Its counter productive to solving problems when some people paint the police as some kind of benevolent force beyond reproach and another claims they are the enforcement wing of the Klan. The hyperbole muddies the water and actively works against finding any sort of valuable truth in these situations.

What is the "other side" of generally not wanting poorly trained and or racially biased officers accidentally murdering people?

What is the "other side" of not being happy with frequently falsified police reports, planted evidence and such?

I dont think these are real questions. Ive never heard of anybody arguing for poorly trained racist officers or corruption.

I don't think your post really addresses why you don't agree with protest other than to slightly imply that theres some greater truth that needs to be accepted by both sides regarding these incidents and some sort of "why does it always have to be about race?" Argument.

If it does turn out to be about race, then it should be looked into as such, but its undeniable that there is usually a knee jerk reaction that points to race in these cases and an equally unhelpful response in the form of a wholesale defense of the police without knowing exactly what happened. The public discourse seems to be consumed by one side or the other and the facts become lost to most.

You say that you have a problem with one side suggesting that every shooting of a minority is racially charged, when police are killing shit loads of people day in day out, and when the protests mainly come about in circumstances when people are killed for no reason or "just incase".

I don't know.

It's just weird that you have people out here raising awareness about what most non American western world citizens would call a joke of a corrupt and unregulated pseudo military with a license to kill that nobody should want to have in their country, and the response to that raising of awareness is that there's too much of a racial element to it and "why does it always have to be about race".

I dont see a whole lot of attempts to raise awareness about the militarization of the police; the vast majority of articles/posts/discussions seem to be about whether or not the police operate in a racist manner. These issues are tangentially related, but not the same.

 

[n00bsauce87]

I mean their perspective boils down to

They should be doing free speech on their own time, not during an NFL game.

 

[Llyranor]

I mean their perspective boils down to

They should be doing free speech on their own time, not during an NFL game.

I wonder how those same people feel about ads and commercials being shown during NFL game time.

 

[juicyb]

Well in trying to understand my dad's perspective on this, he responded with a lengthy text regarding why he thinks its disrespectful. We have been going back and forth for days talking about it, but he just can't seem to see it outside of his own perspective. Anyway, I'll transcribe what he said:

"The nfl twenty something year old footballers turning their back on the American flag? During the play of the anthem? On national tv? Yes I find that an offensive and abusive display of free speech. I will no longer watch nfl games because of the how not the why. That's my free speech response.

One does not garner citizen support for a cause no matter how just, or innocently ill-informed, or prejudiced the agitators are by trashing what most citizens hold in reverence. It is divisive. ANd I do see that facts support that there is no widespread purposeful systematic police killing of innocent blacks. And even with innocents being questioned/cited/arrested altercations occur in poor neighborhoods because of a general distrust and disrespect of authority that police are given by society. The police are driven to mistakes much more by self-preservation fear than because of racism.

The NFL league office has not shown any leadership on shaping this protest stage in a way that all goals and sensitivities were held in high esteem, and now Trump has shot off his big uninformed mouth and things are morphing into a rebellion against the office of the presidency. While this spirals out of guided resolution the fan base has and will continue to erode. It's too late for the league to save the 15-20 percent of us who have switched off pro football this season..."

I responded back a few minutes later but I thought it would be better to just leave this here. I don't agree with his stance so the next text is rather lengthy.

 

[jroc74]

This is how the right and conservative news is twisting and spinning this to their audience, day in and day out, for hours every day

And a lot of people nod their head in agreement with that mindset

What's crazy about all this..

Athletes, entertainers have a platform to get the message across where the regular Joe doesn't.

I guess these same athletes, entertainers shouldnt be involved in disaster relief telethons then if that's the case.

 

[jroc74]

How does the fact that Kaep went to a military guy about this and that guy said it would be better to kneel than sit gets lost in all this.. Said sitting was more disrespectful.

Kaep originally sat, then started to kneel. Then America lost its mind.