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[longdi]

It seems like Haswell will be sticking around until 2015?
No mention about the 14nm Broadwell tick.
Hope you like your heatwall and dead non-k overclocking..

http://vr-zone.com/articles/long-li...-a-midterm-refresh-is-on-the-cards/33920.html

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proces...erformance-and-Architecture/Integrated-Voltag

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-review,3521.html

Our Early Overclocking Results

I should be upfront here and just let everyone know the truth: Haswell doesn't overclock as well as SNB or IVB and it gets significantly hotter. In any event, we needed to see for ourselves how high we could push the part we had.

WOW. Load power consumption jumps from 127 watts on the Core i7-4770K at default settings up to 201 watts when overclocked to 4.5 GHz - that is an increase of 75 watts. For comparison, that is higher than the Core i7-3970X that uses 6 cores that are more power hungry and nearly hits the same power consumption levels of the AMD FX-8350. (Actually, that's just as bad for AMD's FX-series).

Worse OC than IVB....and hotter...how can it be possibru?? More delidding nonsense to come..

Overclocking Core i7-4770K

Moving on, what can you expect from a Core i7-4770K, in terms of overclocking headroom? We have a couple in the lab, and are getting 4.7 GHz, at most, across all cores using Prime95 to test for stability. However, those samples come from Intel. We were much more interested in feedback from someone with many, many retail parts at their disposal.

Our first-hand information involves a high double-digit number of processors, including samples and final shipping boxed CPUs. Sort testing was limited to 1.2 V to keep heat manageable. Ring/cache ratios are pegged at 3.9 GHz, with the memory controller operating at 1,333 MT/s. Of the chips available for sorting, only one is stable at 4.6 GHz under full load. A few are capable of operating at 4.5 GHz. More run stably at 4.4 GHz. Most are solid at 4.3 GHz and down. As you stretch above a 1,600 MT/s memory data rate or a ring ratio to match your highest single-core Turbo Boost ratio (which helps maximize performance), your top stable core frequency tends to drop.

Seems to be meh. Anandtech didnt even do a big review on the cpu.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/3
The Idris Pro looks good here, more powerful than ps360 combined, but Intel decides to hamstrung it by not offering it as a diy parts.

http://us.hardware.info/news/35295/haswell-has-usb-30-issues-with-14-out-of-22-tested-usb-drives

We tested 22 USB 3.0 memory sticks, USB 3.0 external hard disks and USB 3.0 external SSDs. 14 out of the 22 devices exhibited the problem.

If you want to be sure that you buy a motherboard without that issue, you will have to wait. Intel has indicated that, starting end July, a new version of the chipset, C2, will be supplied to the motherboard manufacturers. Then the motherboards have to be produced and shipped, and retailers will of course first sell their existing stock.

You can't tell by the exterior whether a board is C1 or C2. The manufacturers are also of the opinion that it's insignificant and we haven't heard any plans that it will be mentioned specifically on the box which version it is. Once you've bought a board, you can find out which one you have with CPU-Z. Under the tab Mainboard you can see the revision of the chipset. Revision 4 is C1, and the improved C2 stepping will be called revision 5.

You can read more about this and everything else there is to know about the new chipsets and motherboards for Haswell processors, in our big test of 33 Haswell-compatible motherboards.

Remember when you could do this with a no-K IVB and SB CPUs on a Z motherboard?
Yes the good no-K overclock via Turbo Boost to all cores. Essentially free, easy, safe tweak in the BIOS for a few watts more..

Intel decides to give another F-U to Haswell upgraders.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/897-6/overclocking-plus-libre-k-plus-strict-par-ailleurs.html

But this is where the first disappointment for non K. processors Indeed, on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge, Intel still left a little freedom of overclocking, it was possible to add frequencies to 400 MHz Turbo. On Haswell, it is no longer possible to align the frequency of the Turbo with 4 active on the hearts of the Turbo with 1 active core. Here in practice what happens on two non-K processors of each line:

It loses between 200 and 400 MHz depending on the level of Turbo.

Overclocking side so it is a cold shower for Haswell, as new additions to the K processors are not really useful for overclocking used on machines of every day, and for other processors overclocking is more limited that 'before! The question is whether the Haswell rise higher frequency, we will return later.

For those looking into non overclocking issues...seems heat is more of a problem than IVB.

But this is just part of the problem. Haswell turned out to be much hotter in real life than its predecessor. The maximum permissible temperature of its CPU cores is 100°C but even in nominal operational modes Core i7-4770K would get as hot as 75-80°C even with a high-performance air-cooler.

To illustrate Haswell’s thermal performance we performed a quick comparison between Core i7-4770K and Core i7-3770K working in their nominal mode and tested with the same NZXT Havik 140 cooler:

The Haswell CPU core temperatures are seriously higher than those of the previous generation processors. And although most every-day tasks do not cause the CPU to heat up so dramatically, we should base our conclusions primarily on specialized stability tests, which create heavy but nevertheless quite realistic load.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0

 

[-COOLIO-]

I'm excited for a nice detachable hybrid with awesome tablet form battery life rather than anything desktop related.

 

[Canis lupus]

I wanna know the battery life in new ultrabooks/mbps

 

[Terbinator]

...The Idris Pro looks good here, more powerful than ps360 combined, but Intel decides to hamstrung it by not offering it as a diy parts.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The reason I was waiting for Haswell was also for a possible increase in battery in all that for ultrabooks/hybrids but now that I've had some months to think about it. I think I'd rather buy a cheap hybrid that has a good atom processor in it, those have improved quite a bit and offer amazing battery life.

 

[Prelithe]

I'm excited for a nice detachable hybrid with awesome tablet form battery life rather than anything desktop related.

Yeah it seems like Haswell was pretty much completely mobile focused, with the Desktop parts turning out weaker than expected. Cannot wait for one of these in the new rMBP.

 

[Courage]

So should I even bother with Haswell? Should I just go with 3770K for my first build?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Good thing I have a stock i7-960 that hasn't been OCed yet. Once I do, I'll be set for a good while. Now, I just have to learn how to OC it... ^^;;

 

[Deku Tree]

Want battery life info.

 

[Duxxy3]

Best news ever.

I only need to get more ram and a new video card for my next upgrade.

 

[Sethos]

Another mediocre Intel set of chips. Fuck sake.

Give me some beastly 12+ cores that overclock like stink and keep cool, then we'll talk.

 

[longdi]

Another mediocre Intel set of chips. Fuck sake.

Give me some beastly 12+ cores that overclock like stink and keep cool, then we'll talk.

There is the USB bug on Z87 chipset too...

Should I Worry About My USB Flash Drive?

Prior to Haswell’s introduction, it was rumored that 8-series chipsets had a bug that’d cause USB 3.0-based thumb drives with certain controllers to disconnect when the platform woke from a sleep state. This turned out to be true, though the steps to reproduce actually had more to do with a pulse from the device greater than 400 mV.

Stepping C1 of the chipset is affected. Stepping C2, which should already be shipping, fixes it. Single-chip BGA-based Haswell implementations won’t exhibit the issue, as Intel intervened with updated chipset components on those soldered-down packages.

So far, there are no reports of data loss due to this, so it’s being labeled a nuisance. Our sources say a small number of drives trigger the bug, and if you find one that does, using a different thumb drive should be your solution. At the very worst, you may need to reconnect your device or restart your video player if you watching a movie from the drive when it disconnected. Given the list of scenarios where this errata might surface, and in light of the actions you’d need to take, it’s not worth factoring into a buying decision.

 

[dmr87]

Looks like my Sandy will hold out for years to come when it comes to high-res gaming. If you have a Sandy or Ivy you are good to go.

If I upgrade it's just because I like to fiddle with my PC.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I wanna know the battery life in new ultrabooks/mbps

Want battery life info.

Agreed. Haswell is suppose to improve battery performance a significant amount.

 

[dc89]

Want to see the MacBook Air refresh with these new CPU's and how it impacts on performance and battery life.

I'm in the market for one!

 

[Josh7289]

So when can we buy these?

 

[tipoo]

I posted a thread on this a few minutes before this one, but anyways what Anand said about the Xbox One in there was very interesting, he thinks there won't be a bottleneck with 32MB for at least current games if it's used as a cache.

 

[kpjolee]

Goodbye Haswell. Hello IB-E. Haswell is not going to be in my next build.

 

[BloodMoney]

Another mediocre Intel set of chips. Fuck sake.

Give me some beastly 12+ cores that overclock like stink and keep cool, then we'll talk.

Yea, from what i'm seeing, there is no point to upgrade.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Goodbye Haswell. Hello IB-E.

I never was getting Haswell but with an x79 board the IB-E is the next logical choice.

 

[Durante]

Disappointing from an enthusiast perspective. Seems like you are still much better off with Sandy Bridge-E on the high end or a K-series Ivy Bridge for value.

 

[fluffydelusions]

So when can we buy these?

++ well for me a laptop with one is what I'm after

 

[s_mirage]

About what I expected. I'm not regretting my recent upgrade.

I wonder if the mediocre performance boost lends any credence to the theory that the crap thermal interface in the Ivy Bridge package was an attempt by Intel to nobble their overclocking performance in order to make Haswell look better.

 

[gemoran4]

So should I even bother with Haswell? Should I just go with 3770K for my first build?

i was going to ask the same question. I waited on building my PC for the haswell CPUs to come out, but I wonder if it's even worth it now

 

[Enectic]

Engadget did a review of the MSI GT70 (gaming laptop) which has a 3.4GHz Core i7-4700Q (Haswell):

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/01/msi-gt70-dragon-edition-review/

Not only did it run circles around most of the games we tested (more on that below), but it also survived Engadget's standard battery test for a staggering four and a half hours -- by far the longest-lasting gaming rig of its size that we've ever tested. In a category where two hours is considered a good showing, more than four is simply unprecedented. Intel's latest chipset is probably the reason, making good on its promise to sip less wattage than Ivy Bridge. If Haswell can do this with a gaming laptop, we can't wait to see how far it'll stretch out a longevity-focused Ultrabook.

 

[dLMN8R]

The focus on overclocking the OP seems completely irrelevant and pointless. Who honestly needs to overclock anything these days?

I'm glad Intel isn't focusing on such unnecessary enthisast boner matches. Looks like Haswell does what it promised to do - significantly increase graphics performance, significantly lower power consumption (when not overclocking), enabling extremely fast laptops that get far higher battery life.

 

[s_mirage]

i was going to ask the same question. I waited on building my PC for the haswell CPUs to come out, but I wonder if it's even worth it now

If you can wait at all and the prices are the same, you just have to decide whether a potentially larger overclock will give you more performance than the Haswell.

The focus on overclocking the OP seems completely irrelevant and pointless. Who honestly needs to overclock anything these days?

You do know that there are some games that are still CPU bound on most available hardware (Assassin's Creed III, Crysis 3, Kerbal Space Program in a way), don't you? Especially on non-OC'ed CPUs.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Engadget did a review of the MSI GT70 which has a 3.4GHz Core i7-4700Q (Haswell):

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/01/msi-gt70-dragon-edition-review/

That is impressive

 

[Mogwai]

Wow, Haswell getting even hotter than Ivy Bridge. I thought IBs "hotness" was due to bad TIM?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Best news ever.

I only need to get more ram and a new video card for my next upgrade.

Yeah. Certainly makes things easier when they keep getting worse and worse.

I guess they're not worried at all about AMD. Because they've been garnering a lot of ill will with what they've done with the last two "upgrades". If AMD ever offerered something closely comparable in the performance/watt categories, I'd probably switch just out of spite.

I get what they're doing and don't have issues for the most part, but they're giving an intentional FU with the way they intentionally gimp overclockabilility for no good reasons.

 

[JWong]

Hmmm an upgrade to my i7-2600k? or not...

 

[tokyostomp]

Wasn't the main benefit of the new haswell chips suppose to be longer battery life?

I don't care to hear about OC (At least right now) as I'd probably never do it to a laptop.

More interested in battery life

 

[Felix Lighter]

So if I were to build a system today would a i7 3930K's additional cores ever become useful?

 

[Nachtmaer]

5-10% overall improvements (not counting GPU obviously) which isn't surprising if you've been keeping up with what Intel has been the doing the last few years. Not that I was planning on upgrading anyway, my 2500k still does whatever it needs to do.

It amazes me though that Intel yet again managed to launch with chipset bugs.

Yeah, I also want to know this.

If you're only using your PC to play games, an i7 is overkill, even the LGA115x ones.

 

[Courage]

So if I were to build a system today would a i7 3930K's additional cores ever become useful?

Yeah, I also want to know this.

 

[mr2xxx]

Ehhh this sucks especially with the fact next gen CPUs are much weaker combined with AMD offering no competition. Intel has very little reason to increase performance. With CPU power stagnate hopefully Nvidia and AMD still compete or PC gaming in general will stagnate in the future.

 

[1-D_FTW]

So if I were to build a system today would a i7 3930K's additional cores ever become useful?

No one can truly answer that until we see next-gen titles truly developed from the ground up for XB/PS4. Since those processors are so weak, you should be able to just muscle your way through with a quad core Intel CPU. But until that's proven correct, it's only speculation.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Still stitting on an AMD Phenom II X4 965 @ 3,4 Ghz lol. What should I upgrade to if I got roughly 200 to spare for a CPU? Wait for Haswell or go for a 3750k?

 

[rohlfinator]

Disappointing, I wasn't expecting much but I was hoping for some OC improvement over Ivy Bridge. Maybe I'll just go with a 3770k.

You do know that there are some games that are still CPU bound on most available hardware (Assassin's Creed III, Crysis 3, Kerbal Space Program in a way), don't you? Especially on non-OC'ed CPUs.

Yeah, I'm not sure where this "CPU doesn't matter anymore" meme is coming from lately. I'm on a slightly older AMD CPU but it's my most obvious bottleneck in a lot of games. There's going to be even more of a need for improvement as more people start trying to push 120 fps, which right now is completely out of the question for a lot of games.

 

[mr2xxx]

So if I were to build a system today would a i7 3930K's additional cores ever become useful?

Depends, for gaming the answer is no since most games will be PC ports of console games with a weak CPU. For encoding/decoding, video/photo editing then sure.

 

[dLMN8R]

Wasn't the main benefit of the new haswell chips suppose to be longer battery life?

I don't care to hear about OC (At least right now) as I'd probably never do it to a laptop.

More interested in battery life

The reviews universally show far lower power consumption, which will translate into higher battery life.

There aren't many reviews indicating as such yet, but Engadget's review mentioned above of a gaming laptop shows a boost from 2.5 hours to 4.5 hours (which is insane for a gaming laptop)

I don't think people understand the implications of overclocking. It's tremendously taxing and isn't intended, especially not for these CPUs. They've been closely tailored to very specific things, so obviously thing will go out of whack if you mess with them.




I don't know, seeing overclocking mentioned as literally the only thing in the OP and then bitching about it seems equivalent to me to starting a Tesla thread with bitching about how you can't floor it on the highway for hours at a time. Completely missing the forest for the trees.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Still stitting on an AMD Phenom II X4 965 @ 3,4 Ghz lol. What should I upgrade to if I got roughly 200 to spare for a CPU? Wait for Haswell or go for a 3750k?

If money's an issue, you're gonna get much better deals on an Ivy Bridge motherboard right now. There's always a bit of a price premium on motherboards (and an unknown on quality) when a new architecture launches.

 

[AngelsDontBurn]

Glad to know I wasn't the only one waiting to upgrade. It's a shame the Has well isn't a monumental step up. Guess I'll be doing my serious update sooner than I thought. Of course that's nothing to complain about.

 

[2San]

Ehhh this sucks especially with the fact next gen CPUs are much weaker combined with AMD offering no competition. Intel has very little reason to increase performance. With CPU power stagnate hopefully Nvidia and AMD still compete or PC gaming in general will stagnate in the future.

Nvidia is running laps around AMD atm. Honestly AMD seems like a joke these days. :|

 

[soldierblue]

As a desktop enthusiast, not impressed. I'll prolly just stick with my 2600K @ 4.5.

 

[Felix Lighter]

No one can truly answer that until we see next-gen titles truly developed from the ground up for XB/PS4. Since those processors are so weak, you should be able to just muscle your way through with a quad core Intel CPU. But until that's proven correct, it's only speculation.

Yeah, I imagine that's the case but considering how slowly CPUs are improving, a good CPU could last a very long time. It might be sometime before another somewhat reasonably priced 6 core intel CPU is available, so i kind of see a situation where it may be a good investment.

Hell, there is no reason for me to upgrade my current CPU, i7 930, for the most part but I was looking forward to the increased OC potential for those handful of games that are CPU, single thread performance bound. I've been bouncing ideas around but I will most likely wait one more GPU cycle.

 

[dLMN8R]

You do know that there are some games that are still CPU bound on most available hardware (Assassin's Creed III, Crysis 3, Kerbal Space Program in a way), don't you? Especially on non-OC'ed CPUs.

Those seem like weird examples to me. ACIII doesn't have many performance issues, Crysis 3 is simply a matter of Crytek building for far future hardware (and perhaps inefficiency), and Kerbal isn't even a completed game (let alone optimized).


I'm glad that Intel isn't wasting their time trying to solve "problems" they didn't create in those games. Such a pointless endeavor.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Goddamnit. I was waiting to upgrade (i have a yorkfield q9550 2.8ghz Oc'd to 3.4 lol). I want to build a steambox, and i also run a lot of emulation so CPU is very important there. Is haswell still an ideal upgrade instead of going with an Ivy Briidge? I guess we will have to wait for more reviews and performance testing on the MB combos. I want the most future proof, and OC potential with long lasting life cooled on air.

 

[Durante]

The focus on overclocking the OP seems completely irrelevant and pointless. Who honestly needs to overclock anything these days?

This is a forum full of gaming enthusiasts. When, as such an enthusiast, you get much better value out of a 2 year old chip than a new product, some disappointment is warranted.

 

[Visualante2]

Do you think Intel has made a conscious effort to design these chips so they cannot overclock, and if you try they will run hot? Seemed like after the Conroe/Kentsfield chips overclocked a little too well for Intel's pay masters.

I'm on a Q6600 so I've been looking to upgrade late this year. Looks like i7 or AMD will be my choice when I can afford.