BlackBuzzard
Banned
Just what Sony needs another Fumito Ueda under their wings, that worked out so well last time.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Irrational Games shutting down, 2K takes over BioShock, KL in new 15 person DD studio
- Thread starter Quentyn
- Start date
Just what Sony needs another Fumito Ueda under their wings, that worked out so well last time.
GillianSeed79
Member
While there is probably some or a lot of truth to the reports that Levine is difficult to work with, I seriously doubt he woke up today and decided I'm going to fire 200 plus people because I want to work on a passion project with 15 people and do smaller games. Take 2 is the one that holds the purse strings and funds whatever Irrational wants to do. He is probably partly or mostly to blame for the 5-plus year dev cycle on Infinite, which obviously cost Take 2 a lot of money. Infinite sold well, but it probably wasn't a huge return on the investment or possibly even a loss.
If Take 2 thought Irrational could be profitable going forward they would have probably kept the entire team even if Levine wanted out to make smaller games. If the Shock franchise even exists after this, they'll likely farm it out to some other studio and will ensure that its dev cycle is reasonable.
I wouldn't be surprised if Levine is under contract and that's the only reason he's still there. If that's the case, I could see him just running out the clock on the contract before leaving.
Was the turnover higher than other studios?
Exactly. People here aren't looking at the big scenario of it all. Times change.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
From what I'm interpreting from his blog post is that his 'talk' with TT is very likely that he was quitting and going to make another startup and TT convinced him to stay under their umbrella along with the 15 other people he was going to poach.
It seems that TT realized that there was going to be a mass exodus from Irrational Games anyways and they managed to make the best out of the situation.
Night_Trekker
Member
Indeed. And yes, there is something very wrong with this industry. Possibly with the gamers the industry serves, too.
That seems a lot more likely than Levine cackling while driving each former employee from the building with unrelenting blows from his money bags.
I love all kinds of narrative in gaming, but I'm glad someone is sticking up for crafted narratives in gaming.
CouldBeWorse
Member
I don't think it is horseshit at all. Of course they are trying to place good employees within their family and clearly they are trying to place others at other studios.
Uprooting your family is part of life when you work in an industry with few local jobs and don't want to own your own studio. It's a calculated risk we all take.
When I quit consulting, I moved to Atlanta for an industry job, partly for the job itself (risky small company that grew a ton and then got bought), but also because I could land on my feet with a ton of other opportunities in my industry here.
It's much safer for developers to move where there are many opportunities in games instead of just one basket that all of their eggs are in if stability and family are what matter most.
So moving won't be a bad thing for many of these folks.
I certainly don't want all games to be crafted narrative, but I do want them to exist. Especially from folks like Ken, who tend to be much stronger in that regard.
And I don't think I want crafted narrative left for the Telltales of the world.
Portugeezer
Member
Not a huge fan of Bioshock Infinite, so I'm more interested to see what new game he will make.
molnizzle
Member
Bingo.
Night_Trekker
Member
I'm with you there. (Well, I've never played a Telltale game, but I agree otherwise.)
Don't know if these were posted or not
(Bioshock 1 and 2 designer)
Sounds more like an axe to grind to me. Where were these people speaking up about Levine's conduct when Irrational was in its prime?
Probably had friends there that they didn't want to get fired for being their friend. And what do you mean by prime? Because I could see Bioshock being the thing to give him an ego. Not necessarily SWAT 4.
A lot of people would tell you System Shock 2 (Looking Glass is essentially Irrational, at the end of the day).
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I can't pinpoint any specific quote, but I thought it was pretty well known that Levine has a reputation for not being the easiest person to work for.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Because that worked so well for BioShock Infinite...
They said he was difficult to work with in a creative sense, not that he was an inward looking egomaniac who lives the same Randian concepts that he criticizes in his game.
baffling if true
Something like ~4.5M units sold in less than a year, almost universal critical acclaim and tons of GOTY nominations.
But oh no, some people on the internetz don't like it. Must've been a failure.
Probably why they kept the developers around of such a profitable, amazing game, right?
ProfessorMoran
Member
This.
If the game didn't sell enough then it's a financial reason for the closure, not a creative one.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
How is it baffling? It was stuck in development hell for years, had a huge marketing budget and even 5 million+ sales weren't enough to make it profitable. Or if it was profitable, it just wasn't profitable enough for 2K.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
I'm talking about sales, and they aren't subjective.
Is it? Its a reason for not making sequels. Not for closing Irrational down.
Wow just watched this. That 2011 version was really something. I wonder if the bigger environments were axed because they couldn't get em working or because the consoles didn't have enough memory to handle them.
Right! AAA publishers generally do this to themselves. They overspend and then things go wrong. I addressed that in the article. 2K doing this shows that they're acting smart. It cost people their jobs, which sucks and is a folly of the AAA mindset, but pursuing smaller projects without over-inflated budgets is a way to go.
There was more to it than the bigger levels. Elizabeth's tears had more depth and she also interacted with the environment a lot more.
speculawyer
Member
Well, I suspect Bioshock will continue. Just not with Irrational and a massive budget.Nnnoooooo, Bioshock is my fave FPS series
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well. Ok. What are you going to have this team do if not work on their most successful franchise? If Bioshock 4 seems like a bad fiscal investment, what would this large team work on instead that would be a better investment?
It's kinda ironic though...back in the day in the mid/late 90's and early 2000s when great fresh, creative and very ambitious PC games rock the world...most of those awesome PC games were coming from smaller/smallish studios. Yes it is a shame to see these guys close the book on a great game series but on the other hand...sometimes when things must end, great things come out of it. This may be the best thing that could of ever happened ...outside of the peeps having to find new work.
molnizzle
Member
Steve Jobs had a reputation for not being the easiest person to work for too.
Most brilliant people do.
It was in development hell for 5 fucking years.
I agree. Levine definitely had enough clout to take a more courageous route and break off from take-two but he didn't, and I think we should call him out on it.
We'll see how something like Titanfall does, but I imagine you can sell something off 'From the team behind Bioshock'
Worked pretty well here
element
Member
Ken was the President of the studio, as well as Creative Director. To a certain degree all staffing decisions flow through him.
ProfessorMoran
Member
It shows the team is incapable of producing financial hits despite significant investment, it's the kind of thing that has killed lots of teams last generation. What scares me is the whole multi team approach of making a game by take two and UniSoft, that stuff is insane.
That bit about Ken being a slow chiseler I think is exactly what this new studio is for, it's to let him do his 'slow chiseling' at a far lower price then a full studio set up for making a AAA game costs. This way there's not as much of that time pressure causing blowups like that.
I woke up in the morning and saw this news and I like "what the hell that just happened??". While I'm no Irrational Games fan, I know this will be a huge blow for many of us. After rading Levine's letter, and how media reported, I believe this have nothing to do with anything but Levine's artistic vision as the game critically acclaimed and sold like hotcakes. The guy is a great director and designer, where most of his game have themes and purposes behind it. But as Irrational Games grow big, maybe Levine's feel that his creativity become even more limited, and such is proven by big luddonarrative dissonance that hold Bioshock Infinite from showing it's whole premises in more brighter light.
This must be a very emotional decision for Levine, to close down a studio that have brought us many good games. But in the end, mayb he think all of that is the past and he want fresh start for his creative vision. I look forward for his future game that put more emphasis on story, like it should be for Levine's game.
This must be a very emotional decision for Levine, to close down a studio that have brought us many good games. But in the end, mayb he think all of that is the past and he want fresh start for his creative vision. I look forward for his future game that put more emphasis on story, like it should be for Levine's game.
The closure it's not necessarily caused by others. Bioshock is a big IPs for Take-Two, and the fact that Levine still work for them with his small team after Take-Two convinced them stay is a prove that this closure is nothing, but Levine's and his closest team decision.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I was at a company where when one very influential person left and it wasn't long before the mass exodus started happening. I was one of them.
It took about a year before that particular division was completely unrecognizable and 2 before the company just decided to close up shop for that division and roll the remaining employees into another area.
It doesn't just affect people internally, it affects how customers view them. Take a look at how people who pay attention to gaming news now view Infinity Ward post West and Zampella.
Is it harsh? Absolutely. But that's the reality and it's not just in gaming where this sort of thing happens.
I blame consoles, honestly.
Steve Youngblood
Member
We'll see how something like Titanfall does, but I imagine you can sell something off 'From the team behind Bioshock'
Worked pretty well here
Well, ok. But why assume that you're going to get more efficiency and/or sales potential than just keeping them on Bioshock? I think the issue here is that Infinite didn't sell poorly, but still didn't meet their sales expectations.
I worked at a gaming company and could not stand the ceo and founders. The company was crap, the products were crap, and they laid off a bunch of friends which is when I ended up quitting. I'm trying to think what it would be like if I were one of those laid off by Levine. I feel like, unless he's a huge asshole, I would respect his decisions, especially with said support he's giving those that are being let go.
What I'm trying to figure out is is there such thing as healthy lay offs? I've only been involved with the unhealthy kind.
What I'm trying to figure out is is there such thing as healthy lay offs? I've only been involved with the unhealthy kind.
element
Member
I've heard better. IMO what staff are getting is pretty typically for a studio that closes and still has an operational parent (example 38 as a company closed doors vs Take 2 closing a developer).
Sure from a bottomline perspective. I've been at places where the burn rate was too high, we had a to lay people off. While in that instance it sucks, majority of them landed on their feet either at a higher profile studio or ended up doing something on their own. If there is something to remotely view as a positive is all the talented people will go out into the market and help make great games.
Bioshock might have more exptected contrivances they feel fans want them to adhere to. Might not have to fight as much over stuff over 'what is Bioshock' with a new IP.
More disappointing than baffling honestly. It's not hard to imagine something being given a budget that even at 4 million copies couldn't pull in a profit at all, but the fact we're at this point with what essentially fills the mid tier or upper mid tier niche is not good news for the industry. Especially when it keeps happening.
It's fine if a GTA fails at that, when you can expect 8 digit sales figures then it's reasonable to budget for a success at 4 million copies or even twice it, but when you're the kind of game that doesn't get millions within HOURS of release, nevermind a month, then it probably should have been made on a smaller budget. Which is the current Catch 22 the industry faces as you budget appropriately to those numbers but probably wouldn't keep those numbers.
Similar threads
- Locked