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Is "The Winds of Winter" ever coming out?
- Thread starter SpaceWolf
- Start date
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GRRM has stated in the past that he wouldn't let this happen.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Both Dance with Dragons and Wise Man's Fear came out in 2011, and their sequels are still without release dates. It took six years for the fourth Dark Tower book to come out after the third one ended on a massive cliff hanger.
Green Embers
Member
Robert Jordan took 2 to 3 years between books in the Wheel of Time. At the time I thought that was pretty long. Little did I know...
He was actually pumping them out on a nearly yearly basis for a long time until he started getting older and the books got larger and more complex. I was always impressed with his pace actually considering how large each one was.
PeskyToaster
Member
He's procrastinating because no one can give him a hard deadline and it's more fun to do whatever you want besides the thing that you should be doing.
Basically he needs a boss that can say it's due by April 2017 but they can't do that because he's too popular. He has all the leverage.
Basically he needs a boss that can say it's due by April 2017 but they can't do that because he's too popular. He has all the leverage.
Basileus777
Member
It's an understandable response though. At some point people just want to know what happens because they are no longer as invested as they used to be and want it to be over.
I don't think it is. If you're no longer invested, it doesn't matter how it ends. There's no real circumstance where I'd rather see a mediocre or bad ending. Like, I'd rather wait another 15 years before getting the last book if it meant I'd get a good ending out of it. The worst case scenerio I see of that is that by that time, I'll have forgotten most of the series, but all that means is that I'll be rereading the series, which I do anyway.
But I honestly never understood the need for a conclusion, even if it's a bad one. Conclusions are only enticing if you think they're going to be satisfying. Bad conclusions retroactively ruin series, making it difficult to enjoy things you previously liked. I want an ending, but not to the point where I don't care about quality. I'd rather have no ending than one that would ruin the entire series for me.
Frustration of that nature only comes from being invested, but having no feedback. For me, I solve that by just going to read something else. Constantly waiting on one single series is like watching a clock. Time is only going to move slower if you are paying attention.
Basileus777
Member
People that stay attached just enough to want to know how it ends are probably not following it especially closely to begin with. I'm not there, but I don't demand that everyone interested at all in these books be a super fan.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Dune? That's cause the author died and his hack son and some other loser gave us one of the biggest PoS in sci-fi.
I'm not asking that either. But a bad ending can turn anything good about the series to ashes. I feel like anyone who's asking for a conclusion at ANY cost whatsoever has never read a work where the ending was so bad that it makes even the previously good parts of a story unenjoyable. It removes your ability to enjoy even parts that were, at one time, good. That is truly the worst.
Honestly, if anything, you'd think it'd be the casual fans that would be like "Whatever, I'll get it when it's out"
I feel like people are being pretty unfair here. Writing is not some quick, easy process and different writers write at different speeds. Also GRRM is five lengthy books deep in his series so there's a lot to manage at that point.
Even Brandon Sanderson has taken 3 to 4 years between Stormlight Archive books and those aren't even quite as long as GRRM's last book. Sure Sanderson puts out a lot of smaller books but he also writes like a maniac, I'm pretty sure Rothfuss said Sanderson writes like 10 hours a day. Not everyone can do that obviously.
Yeah it has been 5 and a half years since the last GRRM book and he has released a number of preview chapters over the years so it's not like he isn't working on it.
People also need to chill it with the talk of him dying. That's a pretty messed up thing to say. Also he isn't that old and hasn't had any notable health problems.
Even Brandon Sanderson has taken 3 to 4 years between Stormlight Archive books and those aren't even quite as long as GRRM's last book. Sure Sanderson puts out a lot of smaller books but he also writes like a maniac, I'm pretty sure Rothfuss said Sanderson writes like 10 hours a day. Not everyone can do that obviously.
Yeah it has been 5 and a half years since the last GRRM book and he has released a number of preview chapters over the years so it's not like he isn't working on it.
People also need to chill it with the talk of him dying. That's a pretty messed up thing to say. Also he isn't that old and hasn't had any notable health problems.
Into the Light
Banned
Yes hes also rich, and really doesn't need to do anything. The motivation is not there.
The Dark Tower series by King has been mentioned - he left 6 years between books 3 and 4, and when book 4 came out it was a almost entirely a flashback to the protagonists childhood told as a story around a campfire. When book 5 came out and continued the main story it was essentially 12 years later. Best example I can think of, but the Dark Tower is nowhere near as popular as ASOIAF, and book 4 is one of the best of the series.
Megalosaro
Banned
Modem society couldn't handle Tolkien. 17 years between hobbit and lotr. 23 years between lotr and silmarillion.
Lol
Lol
Basileus777
Member
The Hobbit was a self contained book. And Tolkien wasn't writing full-time during much of that period.
Hobbit is a standalone story.
Silmarillion is like a history book isn't it? LotR had its own conclusion.
Not really comparable.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
And WW2 was going on.
Megalosaro
Banned
Not really a history book. It's hard describe. It's definitely narrative in its approach, rather them flat lore.
CraigerGamer
Member
On my 3rd time through the series. Currently on Feast and I still can't get enough. The Dorne storyline is just so good. He writes
as meek only for you to realize that he was playing the long-game better than pretty much anyone else. Mind you, I do not watch the HBO television series, and
may end up sabotaging him, but Feast is such an integral part of the game of thrones (Not the book, but the actual chess match going on between the Lanisters, Dorne, Littlefinger, Highgarden, Casterly Rock, and Stannis.)
Winter will come. When it does, I'll be ready and grateful.
Doran Martell
Martell's Fam
Winter will come. When it does, I'll be ready and grateful.
Well, he has gone on record to say that TWOW will stop the scope creep, or at least adding POV characters (which should mean the same thing). Of course there's a chance he has had to change plans and add new POV characters, but the fact that AFFC/ADWD grew the scope isn't anything too surprising considering it's basically the beginning of Part 2 in the larger story and considering what happened in ASOS created such a massive clusterfuck of a situation all over that it would inevidably create a new, even bigger conflict for power where the ones who caused the clusterfuck would try to hold on to the power gained while trouble is brewing all over the kingdom due to all the shit that happened during the recent war, past grievances etc.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Its more like the bible
Dash_Riprock
Member
Look at it another way: The Star Wars original Trilogy was re-released, all 3 prequels shot and released, as well as the sequel trilogy NO ONE expect to get until the Disney buy, will also be shot and released.
All before this series finishes...
SpaceHorror
Member
If he finishes TWoW this year I think he will finish the series. Even if he takes another 6 years he'll be 74. And I think he'll start on it right away as he said he made a huge mistake in not jumping right into Winds after finishing ADwD.
Now the real question is whether or not he can actually finish with seven books. If he adds any more I seriously doubt he'll finish the series.
Now the real question is whether or not he can actually finish with seven books. If he adds any more I seriously doubt he'll finish the series.
Damn, and you just made it more depressing.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Eight books is 100% at this point. There's no way he can finish it in two more books.
Hari Seldon
Member
Tolkien was a professor as well, not a full time writer.
psychodino
Neo Member
I want George to finish the books as much as the next guy, but i also want him to take his time. A bad ending can ruin everything that came before. LOST, Penny Dreadful are just some of the examples of how bad endings can make everything that came before less good. So, i say, take all the time you need.
J.R.R. Tolkien had other priorities other than writing Rings; full-time job, son fighting in WW2, etc. It's not even close to being the same thing.
GRRM is a known slowpoke. His publishers know it; HBO probably had an idea, but didn't realize how bad it would get. Best case scenario would've been for all the books to be done on time, but that was never likely to happen. Ideally GRRM wouldn't have given rights to make the show until after the series was finished.
As it is, there's been an obvious drop in the show's quality after they ran out of book material, which kinda sucks since seasons 1 - ~4.5 or so were great. It would've been great if it could've maintained season 1 - 3 quality all the way through, but alas...
GRRM is a known slowpoke. His publishers know it; HBO probably had an idea, but didn't realize how bad it would get. Best case scenario would've been for all the books to be done on time, but that was never likely to happen. Ideally GRRM wouldn't have given rights to make the show until after the series was finished.
As it is, there's been an obvious drop in the show's quality after they ran out of book material, which kinda sucks since seasons 1 - ~4.5 or so were great. It would've been great if it could've maintained season 1 - 3 quality all the way through, but alas...
CrazyShady
Member
I'm almost thankful that he's taking all this time. I've just started reading the Wheel of Time series and will gladly read the entire series in the meantime while waiting for the ASOIAF books.
The super-fan in me is really hoping that the remaining books are actually all going to be released at the same time and coincide with the ending of the HBO series. There's something artistic about how the books keep the reader on their toes mostly, and life imitating art etc.
I see no reason to be upset at the wait. History's shown he takes his time. I get people are invested in the story and the world but it's his baby not ours. I can't imagine how it must feel to create something and have millions of people begging you to rush it.
The super-fan in me is really hoping that the remaining books are actually all going to be released at the same time and coincide with the ending of the HBO series. There's something artistic about how the books keep the reader on their toes mostly, and life imitating art etc.
I see no reason to be upset at the wait. History's shown he takes his time. I get people are invested in the story and the world but it's his baby not ours. I can't imagine how it must feel to create something and have millions of people begging you to rush it.
Tallshortman
Member
Season 6 was a return to form though so I don't know that it had a damning effect on the quality going forward.
(Chuckles)
PanicFreak
Member
Ha.
He thinks it will be out this year. I think we know better.
He thinks it will be out this year. I think we know better.
CraigerGamer
Member
VaderNoooooooooooo.gif
eot
Banned
Dash_Riprock
Member
That poor poor fool.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
I see you're new here to the world of GRRM. Let me depress you.
Now here's GRRM on Winds of Winter, last New years.
So in May 2015, he thought he would have it finished by October 2015. In Aug 2015, he was confident that he was going to have it done by the end of 2015. 2 whole more months! Now he isn't even confident that it'll be out in 2017. Since he's always late with his predictions, that's really bad news.
dead souls
Member
Take his time? It's been 16 years since a truly good book in this series has been released.
Whatever talent Martin once had is gone. I doubt he finishes, and on the off chance he does I doubt the final books are anything other than complete disappointments.
Jack Scofield
Member
Damn, this is like reading those old Nintendo quotes where they're always optimistic about the future but the continue falling into the same trap:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100006922&postcount=39
Forsaken82
Member
This may very well be the case, but what would end up happening anyways is the books would be written by someone else taking cues from the TV show to end it instead. GRRM may not give a shit, but i guarantee it gets done no matter what. Whether it's Martin's vision or not is the question...
In his defense, it's been 16 years since he wrote a book. Since FoC and ADWD were two halves and we're still waiting for the conclusion and climax of that one book due to it being cut in editing. Oh wait, I guess that's not a defense.
eot
Banned
I imagine he has some say over what happens to it after he's gone. If he doesn't want it finished then just leave it, I'm sure the books mean more to him than they do to any one of us.
Basileus777
Member
What? No. If GRRM and his estate don't want more books they cannot happen. No one has the rights to do it without their permission. Maybe GRRM could have a change of mind, but it's not happening otherwise.
um...like all the popular fantasy novels now? Where the hell is The Thorn of Emberlain? Doors of Stone? Oathbringer? Even the previous books in those series took years to release.
Also...this could be the year we see all of them.
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