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[Zapages]

I want to avoid doing post-docs but my PIs are saying they are necessary. The low pay combined with the same situation of having to publish once again and having to self-teach myself on how to do everything kind of puts me off from that situation. Its ok to self teach myself, but seriously self-teaching new techniques is not fun and you have to become very self-critical to get things published.

Also most of my friends got a job with their PhD without even doing a post-docs.

What do you guys think of post-docs? Are they worth it? What do they encompass?

PS: I am trying to avoid academia all together.

 

[manakel]

Any good interview advice for someone doing a Skype call for school psychology? It's not until after the holidays but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

School psychology programs mainly want to know that:
1.) you know what the field entails (identifying for special education, testing, report writing, interventions, etc.)
2.) you've worked with/had experience with children before.

As long as you've got those, you'll be golden. Good luck!

 

[RumblingRosco]

Got contacted to go for an interview for a post doc next month. I dont even know what to expect beyond meeting the lab and giving a presentation on my PhD work, is this typical?

Interviewed with four labs and got offers from all four. It varies, but generally, I met most of the lab members, got a tour of the lab/facilities, and met one-on-one with the PI. Two of the labs asked me to present my research from my PhD. The other two just wanted to hear my ideas about directions I'd take their research areas, but these weren't formal presentations, more like round-the-clock discussions.

I'd say what you are doing is very standard.

I want to avoid doing post-docs but my PIs are saying they are necessary. The low pay combined with the same situation of having to publish once again and having to self-teach myself on how to do everything kind of puts me off from that situation. Its ok to self teach myself, but seriously self-teaching new techniques is not fun and you have to become very self-critical to get things published.

Also most of my friends got a job with their PhD without even doing a post-docs.

What do you guys think of post-docs? Are they worth it? What do they encompass?

PS: I am trying to avoid academia all together.

I started my post-doc two months ago. I joined a lab that is in an area well outside of my expertise with the expectation that I have a lot to learn. The PI knew this when I joined and arranged for me to work closely with two other post-docs so they could teach me in essentially a one-on-one fashion - it has been super beneficial. I'm obviously doing a lot of self-teaching too, but I specifically sought a lab that would serve as a great learning environment.

It's certainly possible to get a job without a post-doc, but, it depends on your field and what you want to do. If you want to be a tenure-track professor in the US, it's nearly required to have a post-doc first to gain more experience, skills, publications, and grants.

A post-doc is only "worth it" if you have a specific use for it. I wanted to gain experience in a new field and strengthen myself through more papers/grants to become a better candidate for a tenure-track professor position. If I were going into industry or government work, I'd probably not have pursued a post-doc.

What a post-doc encompasses can vary, but in most cases, you basically are a full-time scientist, possibly with some expectations to mentor grad students or occasionally help teach your PIs courses. If you are trying to avoid academia altogether, I'd say a post-doc may not make the most sense for you.

 

[Laevateinn]

I want to avoid doing post-docs but my PIs are saying they are necessary. The low pay combined with the same situation of having to publish once again and having to self-teach myself on how to do everything kind of puts me off from that situation. Its ok to self teach myself, but seriously self-teaching new techniques is not fun and you have to become very self-critical to get things published.

Also most of my friends got a job with their PhD without even doing a post-docs.

What do you guys think of post-docs? Are they worth it? What do they encompass?

PS: I am trying to avoid academia all together.

Then get a job, hippy.

 

[Zapages]

Interviewed with four labs and got offers from all four. It varies, but generally, I met most of the lab members, got a tour of the lab/facilities, and met one-on-one with the PI. Two of the labs asked me to present my research from my PhD. The other two just wanted to hear my ideas about directions I'd take their research areas, but these weren't formal presentations, more like round-the-clock discussions.

I'd say what you are doing is very standard.



I started my post-doc two months ago. I joined a lab that is in an area well outside of my expertise with the expectation that I have a lot to learn. The PI knew this when I joined and arranged for me to work closely with two other post-docs so they could teach me in essentially a one-on-one fashion - it has been super beneficial. I'm obviously doing a lot of self-teaching too, but I specifically sought a lab that would serve as a great learning environment.

It's certainly possible to get a job without a post-doc, but, it depends on your field and what you want to do. If you want to be a tenure-track professor in the US, it's nearly required to have a post-doc first to gain more experience, skills, publications, and grants.

A post-doc is only "worth it" if you have a specific use for it. I wanted to gain experience in a new field and strengthen myself through more papers/grants to become a better candidate for a tenure-track professor position. If I were going into industry or government work, I'd probably not have pursued a post-doc.

What a post-doc encompasses can vary, but in most cases, you basically are a full-time scientist, possibly with some expectations to mentor grad students or occasionally help teach your PIs courses. If you are trying to avoid academia altogether, I'd say a post-doc may not make the most sense for you.

That is awesome to hear! Congratulations!!! I was in a start up lab and ended doing something that PI was not an expert in at all due to plans changing during my research. The facility that we were going to use for my research ended their agreement with our university. Hence I had to start looking at my project from a different direction. This caused me to teach everything myself with little or no guidance on something brand new. My PIs say that I came up with the project and did all the work necessary to its completion. One part really sucked was that I had to repeat a whole year worth of experiments because no one told me that I had to something so minute in the beginning of the experiment. I discovered my error during my oral exam and none of committee members picked on it.

Eventually, I got recruited by my old mentor from my undergraduate research and an another professor to mentor and teach the new techniques and methods that I learned through my doctoral years to their graduate students. Fortunately, I got a published paper for helping their research group

My PIs say that I am an excellent teacher and I have taught over 50 labs through my as TA ranging from genetics to anatomy and physiology. I have even subbed in for PIs for their lectures through those years as a guest lecturer. So that is another reason that they recommend me to do Post-docs.

I thought of entering academia later in my life when I have paid my student loans have settled a bit. But now I need to pay them off and eventually save enough to buy a home... My parents and I can live by me being below minimum wage that I have to get medicaid.

If I was to do the post-doc route, how would you go about it. How did you email your new PI. Is there sufficient guidance or are you left on your own to do everything by yourself? Also does it offer livable wage.

There is one thing that I weak on right now, which is the programming portion. I can understand theories and the fundamentals really well. Would a post-doc allow me to become a better programmer and explore better approaches in doing things? In terms of being to sit in those courses. This is the main thing that prevents me to getting a great job.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Interviewed with four labs and got offers from all four. It varies, but generally, I met most of the lab members, got a tour of the lab/facilities, and met one-on-one with the PI. Two of the labs asked me to present my research from my PhD. The other two just wanted to hear my ideas about directions I'd take their research areas, but these weren't formal presentations, more like round-the-clock discussions.

I'd say what you are doing is very standard.
.

Darn so I might have to be really prepared to discuss what I want to do in the lab beyond just saying, their doing compelling stuff and would enable me to gain experience using invivo/mice instead of my background in invitro cell lines

Can people actually fail in a post doc interview?

 

[RumblingRosco]

If I was to do the post-doc route, how would you go about it. How did you email your new PI. Is there sufficient guidance or are you left on your own to do everything by yourself? Also does it offer livable wage.

I found all my prospective labs by directly emailing the PI. The body of my email was only 2-3 short sentences basically saying "I recently completed my PhD, I am interested in joining your lab as a postdoc, and I have attached a cover letter and a CV. Would you be free for a phone call/meeting to discuss any potential openings in your lab?" Then, as mentioned, I'd attach my CV and a one page cover letter which I would write specifically for each lab I was interested in, tailoring it to that lab's general focus and tying in why my experience would be a valuable asset for the lab. You can also find actual listings for post-doc vacancies online, such as at higheredjobs.com, but I seriously just shot emails out regardless of whether or not I saw an opening listed anywhere.

I'm not sure if you're asking about guidance with the application process or guidance in terms of my research in the lab. I'll answer both. For the application process, no, there was no real guidance. I mostly Googled "How to apply for a post doc" to get some general advice and also read a few random posts on Reddit's r/askacademia to get some general advice. In terms of guidance in the lab, that'll entirely vary lab-to-lab, but the senior post-docs in my lab have given me great advice research-wise, which is immensely helpful.

In terms of salary, you won't get rich, but I would definitely call it a liveable wage. Based on MIT's living wage calculator, I make about double the livable wage for a single adult in my geographical region in the US. If you are raising a family of two or three on just a post-doc salary, it can be a bit tougher. In the US, you can roughly assume you'll make $40,000 as a post-doc as a minimum, and upwards of $47,000. If you're funded by the NIH, you can look for their standard salaries online; it scales per year of post-doc experience. Other institutions will often try to match to something similar to NIH funding.

There is one thing that I weak on right now, which is the programming portion. I can understand theories and the fundamentals really well. Would a post-doc allow me to become a better programmer and explore better approaches in doing things? In terms of being to sit in those courses. This is the main thing that prevents me to getting a great job.

What is your field? Regardless, I would say that, in my experience, it isn't common for a post-doc to sit-in on courses. I'm sure some do, but I've never personally heard of that happening. You'll likely be expected to spend a minimum of 40+ (in many cases, more like 50-60) hours a week directly focused on research. You'll need to discuss any extra things, such as sitting in on courses, with your PI. Most of my learning is coming from other lab members, but I seriously am learning a ton. I went from metabolic engineering/biofuel research to bacterial pneumonia research, which to me is a pretty big jump. But, basically, if you want to gain training in a specific field, make damn sure the post-doc you go into let's you get that experience somehow. Post-docs don't pay enough to make them worth not getting what you want.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Darn so I might have to be really prepared to discuss what I want to do in the lab beyond just saying, their doing compelling stuff and would enable me to gain experience using invivo/mice instead of my background in invitro cell lines

Can people actually fail in a post doc interview?

You've gotta think of it like a job interview - you're convincing them that you're a valuable asset. Whether it's new tools or perspectives you can bring to the lab or an incredible motivation and determination to succeed, you'll need them to see that and convince them it's true. However, if you have a really strong motivation to learn from their lab (and, you probably should!), I'd argue that it's absolutely in your best interest to express how motivated you are to learn from them.

So, rather than just say "I want to learn how to conduct in vivo experiments," you should say something like "I have a very strong background in in vitro experiments which has given me the ability to understand X and Y, which I can easily apply to your lab's work in a variety of ways."

Don't lie about what you are capable of, but absolutely advertise your strengths and how they translate even to new areas of research.

And yes, I assume you can fail a post-doc interview in a variety of ways. Even if you're a great candidate on paper, if your personality sucks (like, if you're highly arrogant or a jerk), for example, you may not get an offer.

 

[Zapages]

Thank you Sako for your advice. This really helps with focusing things.

I am bioinformatician / bioinformatician analyst from biology perspective with wet lab experience to boot on top of everything. During my doctoral work, I found out that there are a lot of programming in python, perl, bash, and R. Also being familiar with Linux and Unix. A lot of jobs are looking for folks who come from computer science/programming background instead of biology background. Hence, my troubles with finding a job now and my thinking of maybe doing a post-doc.

Although I have picked up a lot and have been self teaching myself (coursera and other courses like that) as well on how to program properly. I used to do programming back in high school and a bit of undergraduate years with C++ and Visual Basic. I even made programs for my undergraduate research mentor from scratch. I feel that I am no where near an expert in these other programming languages, but I can do the basics and bit more depending at what is being asked. Also I am able to understand other folks code and I am able to think of new strategies on how to handle certain things.

I am the best in bash then Python and R. I am the weakest in Perl though in comparison to everything.

I have written small basic scripts and pipelines in Bash and python though.

 

[tokkun]

I want to avoid doing post-docs but my PIs are saying they are necessary. The low pay combined with the same situation of having to publish once again and having to self-teach myself on how to do everything kind of puts me off from that situation. Its ok to self teach myself, but seriously self-teaching new techniques is not fun and you have to become very self-critical to get things published.

Also most of my friends got a job with their PhD without even doing a post-docs.

What do you guys think of post-docs? Are they worth it? What do they encompass?

PS: I am trying to avoid academia all together.

It is basically an apprenticeship program for being a professor at an R1 university or a research scientist. If you are not gunning for those jobs, it would probably be a mistake to do a post-doc. If you are in a professional discipline, you will get paid more with a job in industry, and that experience will be valued more other employers in industry than a post-doc would be.

If you neither like the research lifestyle nor want to be in academia, it seems pretty clear to me that you shouldn't do a post-doc unless you are unable to find any other job. Get your CV out to some employers.

 

[Necrovex]

School psychology programs mainly want to know that:
1.) you know what the field entails (identifying for special education, testing, report writing, interventions, etc.)
2.) you've worked with/had experience with children before.

As long as you've got those, you'll be golden. Good luck!

Sounds like I'll be a grad student then! Appreciate the tips. I plan on stressing my teaching credential I've acquired from the Peace Corps (how can academics not love a person teaching ESOL/Health in a developing nations!).

 

[Dedication Through Light]

It is basically an apprenticeship program for being a professor at an R1 university or a research scientist. If you are not gunning for those jobs, it would probably be a mistake to do a post-doc. If you are in a professional discipline, you will get paid more with a job in industry, and that experience will be valued more other employers in industry than a post-doc would be.

If you neither like the research lifestyle nor want to be in academia, it seems pretty clear to me that you shouldn't do a post-doc unless you are unable to find any other job. Get your CV out to some employers.

Could also do a post doc at a company like pfizer etc.

 

[Zapages]

It is basically an apprenticeship program for being a professor at an R1 university or a research scientist. If you are not gunning for those jobs, it would probably be a mistake to do a post-doc. If you are in a professional discipline, you will get paid more with a job in industry, and that experience will be valued more other employers in industry than a post-doc would be.

If you neither like the research lifestyle nor want to be in academia, it seems pretty clear to me that you shouldn't do a post-doc unless you are unable to find any other job. Get your CV out to some employers.

I would definitely will like to become a research scientist at R1 university. That would something be nice or a project manager. As I got recruited by the other labs, I was the project manager of their projects and basically became a liaison between the graduate students and their PIs.

Could also do a post doc at a company like pfizer etc.

That is something that I have recently been doing. I have been applying as post-doctoral fellow at the major pharmaceutical and other smaller companies that deal with bioinformatics.

Hoping for luck here now.

 

[ZZMitch]

Hey all.

I am currently on the closing half of my Master's (should finish by the end of the summer). I was planning on going into the workforce when I am done and pursuing a PhD at a later date but I have having second thoughts now. The PhD program at the school I did my undergrad at is open for applications for the next month and I am thinking about applying. Is it common to apply for a PhD when still working on Masters? Would it be better to have the Masters done and thesis in hand before pursuing a PhD? I guess I am just worried about having to potentially rush the Masters out at the end if it looks like it is going longer than expected and if my supervisors will be annoyed that I am already looking past the Masters to other stuff.

 

[Laevateinn]

Hey all.

I am currently on the closing half of my Master's (should finish by the end of the summer). I was planning on going into the workforce when I am done and pursuing a PhD at a later date but I have having second thoughts now. The PhD program at the school I did my undergrad at is open for applications for the next month and I am thinking about applying. Is it common to apply for a PhD when still working on Masters? Would it be better to have the Masters done and thesis in hand before pursuing a PhD? I guess I am just worried about having to potentially rush the Masters out at the end if it looks like it is going longer than expected and if my supervisors will be annoyed that I am already looking past the Masters to other stuff.

Most of the people in my lab at Penn State were basically admitted into the PhD program before even beginning their masters thesis. It was all very informal. Your school is different but if you're already in the department they have all the info on you they need and I doubt it would be a problem to apply before having your thesis done.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Hey all.

I am currently on the closing half of my Master's (should finish by the end of the summer). I was planning on going into the workforce when I am done and pursuing a PhD at a later date but I have having second thoughts now. The PhD program at the school I did my undergrad at is open for applications for the next month and I am thinking about applying. Is it common to apply for a PhD when still working on Masters? Would it be better to have the Masters done and thesis in hand before pursuing a PhD? I guess I am just worried about having to potentially rush the Masters out at the end if it looks like it is going longer than expected and if my supervisors will be annoyed that I am already looking past the Masters to other stuff.

It varies by department, college, lab/PIs, etc. In my opinion (based on a biological science experience), it's extremely normal to start applying for a PhD before you complete your MS. I think your supervisors would be doing a huge disservice to you if they tried to delay your PhD applications. I applied for my PhD before I completed my BS and I know many people that applied for their PhD before finishing their MS. I think you should be fine, personally, but I'd suggest speaking with your PI... you'll need them as a reference letter anyway I suspect.

 

[ZZMitch]

Most of the people in my lab at Penn State were basically admitted into the PhD program before even beginning their masters thesis. It was all very informal. Your school is different but if you're already in the department they have all the info on you they need and I doubt it would be a problem to apply before having your thesis done.

Sorry, I should reiterate that I am not applying to the same school where I am currently doing my Masters. It is where I completed my undergraduate degree though.

It varies by department, college, lab/PIs, etc. In my opinion (based on a biological science experience), it's extremely normal to start applying for a PhD before you complete your MS. I think your supervisors would be doing a huge disservice to you if they tried to delay your PhD applications. I applied for my PhD before I completed my BS and I know many people that applied for their PhD before finishing their MS. I think you should be fine, personally, but I'd suggest speaking with your PI... you'll need them as a reference letter anyway I suspect.

Yeah, I am planning on sending a email tomorrow to the professor from the potential PhD program and then touch base with my supervisors at our first meeting of the new year next week. Hopefully she will have responded by then and I will know if it is a possibility or not.

 

[Zapages]

Hey guys,

I have some good news. I have my first phone interview for an industry post doc this week. I applied for this back in early November. They contacted me a couple a days ago and wanted to learn more about my research work.

How should I prepare for the industry postdoc interview. This will be first interview and this opportunity combines all of my experiences ie. cell culture and bioinformatics into one thing. Also its one of the big pharma companies out there.

What type of questions should I ask? My main hope is the ability to use the experience from the post doc to hopefully gain a full time opportunity at company? But I feel that might not be appropriate. Is that an appropriate question?

Also my dream job would be to work for the government (NIH/USDA/EPA/etc) or work in the pharmaceutical/biotech industry. Would an industry postdoc help facilitate that process? Would that be more tactful way to ask the same question?

Any advice guys?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[elrechazado]

Anyone done an online MBA? Looking at a 2 yr program from an accredited university. Curious about time commitment and such.

 

[Zapages]

Anyone done an online MBA? Looking at a 2 yr program from an accredited university. Curious about time commitment and such.

My friend did his online MBA from University of Indiana... He had to go to Indiana for couple of his courses.

He is now doing an internship with AT&T for their upper management at Chicago for his first 6 months and then he will be transferred to Atlanta for the internship's second half. University of Indiana actually got him this internship and he changed his focus of study from civil engineering.

Only do it if it is one of the top schools that is what my friend said.

Good luck!

 

[RumblingRosco]

Hey guys,

I have some good news. I have my first phone interview for an industry post doc this week. I applied for this back in early November. They contacted me a couple a days ago and wanted to learn more about my research work.

How should I prepare for the industry postdoc interview. This will be first interview and this opportunity combines all of my experiences ie. cell culture and bioinformatics into one thing. Also its one of the big pharma companies out there.

What type of questions should I ask? My main hope is the ability to use the experience from the post doc to hopefully gain a full time opportunity at company? But I feel that might not be appropriate. Is that an appropriate question?

Also my dream job would be to work for the government (NIH/USDA/EPA/etc) or work in the pharmaceutical/biotech industry. Would an industry postdoc help facilitate that process? Would that be more tactful way to ask the same question?

Any advice guys?

Many thanks in advance.

1) Congrats on the interview.
2) Never had an industry post-doc interview. A few of my friends have. My understanding is that it can be pretty rigorous. In their experiences, they basically gave a talk and then met a bunch of people one-on-one presumably to discuss their interests/experience. Seemed tough, but as I said, never experienced it myself so I can't give a lot of feedback here.
3) I think it's extremely acceptable to ask "Where do post-docs that work with you mostly end up? What percent, roughly, stay with the company long-term?" If you want to possibly turn it into a permanent career with the company, I think it's very important you are honest about that - it's a very reasonable question, IMO.
4) I think this position would be very helpful for you to work within industry (pharma/biotech). I'm not sure if it'd help for working with the government - if that's your main goal, I think getting a government post-doc would be more valuable for you. I'm a post-doc in academia though, so my answer is based on the experiences of my colleagues, so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

[woodland]

Hey GAF

I'm starting to apply for some MBA programs and was hoping to get some advice. Right now I've taken the GMAT and gotten a 670 - forget the exact numbers, but 47% quant, 91% verbal, 6 on essay and 7 on integrated reasoning.

I want to go to the best school I can and while I have some connections, I don't have that many. Majored in Finance and got a job at Credit Suisse but didn't like it, looking to start my own thing now. Very interested in some of the joint MBA/Asian Studies programs (seen one at Darden and Foster that I love, but best school possible means I'm aiming higher if possible) as I've taken Japanese for 2.5 yrs and studied abroad there.

Would you guys recommend applying to as many as I can now with the 670 or holding out for the ~lastish wave in March with a score above 700? Keep in mind I'm a white male, which brings me to another question. Is it wiser to not put down my race since most are optional?

Thanks!

 

[Zapages]

1) Congrats on the interview.
2) Never had an industry post-doc interview. A few of my friends have. My understanding is that it can be pretty rigorous. In their experiences, they basically gave a talk and then met a bunch of people one-on-one presumably to discuss their interests/experience. Seemed tough, but as I said, never experienced it myself so I can't give a lot of feedback here.
3) I think it's extremely acceptable to ask "Where do post-docs that work with you mostly end up? What percent, roughly, stay with the company long-term?" If you want to possibly turn it into a permanent career with the company, I think it's very important you are honest about that - it's a very reasonable question, IMO.
4) I think this position would be very helpful for you to work within industry (pharma/biotech). I'm not sure if it'd help for working with the government - if that's your main goal, I think getting a government post-doc would be more valuable for you. I'm a post-doc in academia though, so my answer is based on the experiences of my colleagues, so please take it with a grain of salt.

Thank you Soka.

Any advice for the type of questions to be ready for. I read they like to ask behavioral questions in their interview.

 

[Zapages]

Update guys...

As my phone interview was winding down. I was asked to come in for an in person interview and do 45 minutes to an hour proposal/share my research on how to tackle the proposal that I hopefully will be working on in the future as a postdoc with them. Also they have invited me to dinner with the team that might be working with in the near future.

Has this ever happened to anyone? To come in for an in-person interview as they were ending their phone interview. O_O I was surprised and I was not sure how I was doing in the interview. I was really trying to focus things upon what they were hoping to accomplish. Wow, I have no words right now. O_O

I am really happy and scarred on what to expect.

Any advice for in person interviews and making long presentations.

 

[Smiley90]

Update guys...

As my phone interview was winding down. I was asked to come in for an in person interview and do 45 minutes to an hour proposal/share my research on how to tackle the proposal that I hopefully will be working on in the future as a postdoc with them. Also they have invited me to dinner with the team that might be working with in the near future.

Has this ever happened to anyone? To come in for an in-person interview as they were ending their phone interview. O_O I was surprised and I was not sure how I was doing in the interview. I was really trying to focus things upon what they were hoping to accomplish. Wow, I have no words right now. O_O

I am really happy and scarred on what to expect.

Any advice for in person interviews and making long presentations.

That clearly means you did great, congratz

Similarly I've had it happen that I was invited for an in-person interview that ended on "when can you come in again to meet the team" and I ended up getting that position, so... good luck!

 

[Necrovex]

Final school contacted me. I'm 3/3 for interviews now! Waiting for the schools to be back in session, so I can arrange my Skype interviews (the agony of living overseas). Two schools confirmed they'll do so to accommodate my situation, waiting on one school to confirm its Skype interview.

While not accepted to any schools yet, I'm optimistic about my chances.

 

[saveweyard]

First interview event for a neuro PhD program this Wednesday to Friday. Excited and nervous!

 

[RumblingRosco]

Anyone here have experience applying to consultancy firms, such as BCG, Bain, or McKinsey? I've always had a strong interest in business - I spent my first two years of undergrad as a business major before switching to sciences and in grad school earned a semester long "certificate" in business administration from my college's business school. I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, consulting might be right up my alley as a permanent career choice instead of academia.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience, advice, or general thoughts, especially related to the application and interview process? I'm looking through the application material now and it seems very straight forward so far. I feel like I'm a strong early-career candidate - did my BS in 4 years and my PhD in 5 and have 16 publications to my name with about a third of those as a first author. Earned several fellowships and grants as a PI. Started my post-doc just a few months ago in a high-level institution. So... I feel like all of the cards are aligned when all of that is combined with my minimal-but-evident interest in the more business aspects of industry.

tl;dr: Anyone have thoughts on a scientist applying for a consultancy position with a large consultancy firm?

 

[RumblingRosco]

Take it as you will, but I've heard that consulting firms do like highly educated people. I know a couple PhDs that are considering going into consulting, though their main goal is still academia. Are you charismatic ?

Charismatic af.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Anyone here have experience applying to consultancy firms, such as BCG, Bain, or McKinsey? I've always had a strong interest in business - I spent my first two years of undergrad as a business major before switching to sciences and in grad school earned a semester long "certificate" in business administration from my college's business school. I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, consulting might be right up my alley as a permanent career choice instead of academia.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience, advice, or general thoughts, especially related to the application and interview process? I'm looking through the application material now and it seems very straight forward so far. I feel like I'm a strong early-career candidate - did my BS in 4 years and my PhD in 5 and have 16 publications to my name with about a third of those as a first author. Earned several fellowships and grants as a PI. Started my post-doc just a few months ago in a high-level institution. So... I feel like all of the cards are aligned when all of that is combined with my minimal-but-evident interest in the more business aspects of industry.

tl;dr: Anyone have thoughts on a scientist applying for a consultancy position with a large consultancy firm?

Youre leaving your post doc this soon?

 

[RumblingRosco]

Youre leaving your post doc this soon?

Only if I find a great opportunity. I like my post-doc quite a lot, but the purpose of a post-doc is to receive the training necessary to move on to a more permanent position. If I'm able to land a good position somewhere, why wait? I've been looking into opportunities since day 1 of my post-doc. Nothing yet has interested me or been relevant enough to get me to leave, however. One of the areas I'm potentially interested in is consultancy, but I still know so little about it that I'm just in the "gathering information" stage, hence my post here

 

[ACE 1991]

CMU Heinz College application for their Master of Science in Public Policy and Management has been submitted, woo!

 

[ngower]

Anyone in here ever drop out or take a leave of absence from their program? I'm in an MA right now but the poverty wages paired with lack of insurance are killing me. Just curious what people's experiences have been, if any, taking time away from school to build up some financial support to actually be a grad student?

 

[eot]

Anyone here have experience applying to consultancy firms, such as BCG, Bain, or McKinsey? I've always had a strong interest in business - I spent my first two years of undergrad as a business major before switching to sciences and in grad school earned a semester long "certificate" in business administration from my college's business school. I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, consulting might be right up my alley as a permanent career choice instead of academia.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience, advice, or general thoughts, especially related to the application and interview process? I'm looking through the application material now and it seems very straight forward so far. I feel like I'm a strong early-career candidate - did my BS in 4 years and my PhD in 5 and have 16 publications to my name with about a third of those as a first author. Earned several fellowships and grants as a PI. Started my post-doc just a few months ago in a high-level institution. So... I feel like all of the cards are aligned when all of that is combined with my minimal-but-evident interest in the more business aspects of industry.

tl;dr: Anyone have thoughts on a scientist applying for a consultancy position with a large consultancy firm?

A friend of a friend is someone quite senior at McKinsey. I couldn't tell you a lot about their application process other than I know that it is very rigorous. They will have you solve different cases and you really need to prepare for that part as I understand it. If you look around you should be able to find quite a bit of info about it.

Think long and hard if it's something you want to do though. All you'll do is work, and you'll sleep more in your office, at airports or on airplanes that you will in your own bed. I've heard enough horror stories that I don't think I could ever work there. If money's what you want, go for it. If you get partnered expect to make 7 figures. The more likely scenario is that you burn out, or get passed up for promotion (which means they expect you to resign).

 

[Neoweee]

A friend of a friend is someone quite senior at McKinsey. I couldn't tell you a lot of their application process other than I know that it is very rigorous. They will have you solve different cases and you really need to prepare for that part as I understand it. If you look around you should be able to find quite a bit of info about it.

Think long and hard if it's something you want to do though. All you'll do is work, and you'll sleep more in your office, at airports or on airplanes that you will in your own bed. I've heard enough horror stories that I don't think I could ever work there. If money's what you want, go for it. If you get partnered expect to make 7 figures. The more likely scenario is that you burn out, or get passed up for promotion (which means they expect you to resign).

That's what I've heard about McKinsey, as well. It's like more grad school-- a giant sacrifice to your quality of life and personal life for a few years, to eventually swing it into a different, more stable job somewhere else.

Consulting ain't a great life, and it burns people out pretty rapidly.

 

[Presco]

Anyone here have experience applying to consultancy firms, such as BCG, Bain, or McKinsey? I've always had a strong interest in business - I spent my first two years of undergrad as a business major before switching to sciences and in grad school earned a semester long "certificate" in business administration from my college's business school. I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, consulting might be right up my alley as a permanent career choice instead of academia.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any experience, advice, or general thoughts, especially related to the application and interview process? I'm looking through the application material now and it seems very straight forward so far. I feel like I'm a strong early-career candidate - did my BS in 4 years and my PhD in 5 and have 16 publications to my name with about a third of those as a first author. Earned several fellowships and grants as a PI. Started my post-doc just a few months ago in a high-level institution. So... I feel like all of the cards are aligned when all of that is combined with my minimal-but-evident interest in the more business aspects of industry.

tl;dr: Anyone have thoughts on a scientist applying for a consultancy position with a large consultancy firm?

Not consulting, but I recently transitioned to a managerial clinical support / sales role in industry following a 2 year post doc and it has proven to be a great fit for me personally (and financially - holy shit).

I became a bit disillusioned with what the life of principal investigator would actually be. You're not really the front line scientist anymore, more an HR manager responsible for finding the money to pay your staff. Not what I trained for and not what I wanted to do. If I could just be an academic scientist and make enough money to provide a comfortable life for my family doing so, I would have. But you can't do that on the 50k per year (if you're lucky) you make as a postdoc.

I had zero previous experience in business but was able to nail interview after interview by translating everything from my academic CV (yours is impressive, more papers than me in less time) into related business skills. The cards aligned for me as well. It's hard to find an industry job that really taps into what you do in academia but I somehow managed it. I'm working in the same field, in some of the same operating rooms (my PhD was clinical based while my postdoc was working with non-human primates), but no longer writing grants and and papers. Though I did just finish a paper for my post doc supervisor last week.

And once you're in the door in industry, more doors open up. I've already been headhunted by multiple big firms, and I'm taking a call later this week to hear about a medical science liaison position. I have no intention of leaving my current job anytime soon but I'll definitely broaden my contact base.

 

[Zapages]

Only if I find a great opportunity. I like my post-doc quite a lot, but the purpose of a post-doc is to receive the training necessary to move on to a more permanent position. If I'm able to land a good position somewhere, why wait? I've been looking into opportunities since day 1 of my post-doc. Nothing yet has interested me or been relevant enough to get me to leave, however. One of the areas I'm potentially interested in is consultancy, but I still know so little about it that I'm just in the "gathering information" stage, hence my post here

I had a similar discussion with one of Physics Professor. This is what he recommended to do if you like to go into the consultancy route or make your own business.

For starters, he said make your own company or small institute and have it affiliated with a larger university. Then apply for the grants and everything and take a small stipend from each of the grants if it allows you to do so. Also give back to the university. This way you will be able to grow your small business and continue to learn new things.

When you become large enough with consultancy you can stop your post doc and devout full attention to your own business.

Just some ideas.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

For consulting you'll travel four days and be home for three. That's pretty standard among the big firms. Post-MBA starting salaries are around $130k with a $20k signing bonus. So the money is there but there's a lot of sacrifice to personal life.

Personally I think it's sort of a dick measuring contest in firms like that but they say you learn a lot quickly and work with some of the smartest people around.

If you're going to apply make sure the firm you are looking at has the right verticals and horizontals you're looking to get into.

Also my buddy runs a website called Rocketblocks that helps train you in case studies during the interview process. I recommend it!

 

[RumblingRosco]

Excellent information here from all of you, thank you for the feedback. I sincerely appreciate it! I found some great resources online and from a few connections in-person that I'm following up with. My hunch is that I won't pursue consultancy, but, I still have quite a few things I need to read before I can make any first steps towards applying.

 

[tokkun]

Anyone in here ever drop out or take a leave of absence from their program? I'm in an MA right now but the poverty wages paired with lack of insurance are killing me. Just curious what people's experiences have been, if any, taking time away from school to build up some financial support to actually be a grad student?

I did a couple internships, including one that lasted about 6 months. I was in a field where it was not that hard to find high paying internships, though, so YMMV. You can probably get better advice if you give a little more detail into your situation - e.g. your field, funding (if any), and longterm goals.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Anyone in here ever drop out or take a leave of absence from their program? I'm in an MA right now but the poverty wages paired with lack of insurance are killing me. Just curious what people's experiences have been, if any, taking time away from school to build up some financial support to actually be a grad student?

There are schools with programs that dont give you insurance?!

 

[tokkun]

There are schools with programs that dont give you insurance?!

My school required that you have at least a 33% appointment to receive health insurance as an employee. You could still buy subsidized insurance as a student, but it was more expensive.

 

[WedgeX]

There are schools with programs that dont give you insurance?!

The rates that my school offered for insurance are double what I could purchase off the Obamacare marketplace for a silver PPO.

 

[Daemul]

I just submitted my MSc Dissertation last Friday and I was very confident. I made the mistake of looking at it again this morning though and I discovered a typo in the very first paragraph of my introduction, after having gone through the entire thing with a fine comb multiple times.

I stopped reading right there because I know I'll probably find more if I go on, and it will end up driving me mad haha. Ignorance is bliss.

No matter what you do it seems typos still sneak by.

 

[Smiley90]

I just submitted my MSc Dissertation last Friday and I was very confident. I made the mistake of looking at it again this morning though and I discovered a typo in the very first paragraph of my introduction, after having gone through the entire thing with a fine comb multiple times.

I stopped reading right there because I know I'll probably find more if I go on, and it will end up driving me mad haha. Ignorance is bliss.

No matter what you do it seems typos still sneak by.

I definitely found a typo in my thesis after submission too. Oooooh well. Thankfully was able to re-submit to be uploaded for publication & print and the committee definitely didn't mind/care/find it.

 

[Daemul]

I definitely found a typo in my thesis after submission too. Oooooh well. Thankfully was able to re-submit to be uploaded for publication & print and the committee definitely didn't mind/care/find it.

I don't think markers mind typos and grammarical errors much as long as there isn't a ridiculous amount of them and the work is still readable and I understandable, as well as the content being to the required standard. You'll lose a few marks probably, but typos won't be the difference between you getting a First Class and failing, though it may affect borderline cases.

If you're in the situation where your typos can make a difference between you passing and failing though, then you have bigger problems to worry about.

 

[Smiley90]

I don't think markers mind typos and grammarical errors much as long as there isn't a ridiculous amount of them and the work is still readable and I understandable, as well as the content being to the required standard. You'll lose a few marks probably, but typos won't be the difference between you getting a First Class and failing, though it may affect borderline cases.

If you're in the situation where your typos can make a difference between you passing and failing though, then you have bigger problems to worry about.

of course - it bugged me way more. But that didn't stop me from worrying

 

[ngower]

There are schools with programs that dont give you insurance?!

I'm at a school in TN going for a MA in history. My school does not offer insurance and the option they do offer is a waste of money as it's a $10,000 deductible, which is more than my stipend for the year. TN didn't opt in to the Medicaid expansion, so I don't qualify based on income.

 

[RumblingRosco]

I'm at a school in TN going for a MA in history. My school does not offer insurance and the option they do offer is a waste of money as it's a $10,000 deductible, which is more than my stipend for the year. TN didn't opt in to the Medicaid expansion, so I don't qualify based on income.

That's abysmal. I'm sorry man. It sounds like the type of situation where you need to work part-time while getting your MA, or do as you're thinking and go on hiatus to work for a while.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

MBB or even 2nd tier consulting (Booze, Accenture etc) are generally very demanding. They take candidates with basically every major but target schools (Ivies, MIT, Stanford) hold a distinct edge. PhD is a plus, post doc not really sure. They generally want analytical people and you'll work a lot. Most people leave after 2-3 years for other careers because it gives you tons of exposure and various experience. Also, networking is great. Fun fact: Statistically, you have the highest chance if becoming a CEO if you previously worked for McKinsey (1 in 300). Pay is also good, raises exponentially if you hit the higher ranks.

Source: I'm in the consulting business and know people who work or worked in a bunch of consulting firms.