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Israel PM's son dates non-Jewish Norwegian girl - some ultra-orthodox Jews are upset

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S-Wind

Member
Soooo....

What year is it, again?

If my [hypothetical] son were dating a hot girl, I'd be fucking proud. I don't give a shit about what her ethnicity may or may not be.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/28/yair-netanyahu-girlfriend_n_4681846.html


JERUSALEM – The love life of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s son is setting off sparks — in Israeli politics.

News that 23-year-old Yair Netanyahu is dating a statuesque non-Jewish Norwegian university student was not only a juicy item for the gossip pages. It also unleashed an uproar from religious lawmakers opposed to intermarriage, and prompted debate over the Jewish state’s relationship with the outside world.

According to reports in Norwegian media, the Israeli prime minister boasted to his Norwegian counterpart, Erna Solberg, about the relationship during a meeting at the World Economic Forum in Davos last week and informed her that his son recently visited Norway with his girlfriend, Sandra Leikanger. A photo of the smiling young couple appeared in both Israeli and Norwegian newspapers.

On Monday, the leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas party said he believed the relationship actually caused Netanyahu and his wife great “heartache.” Arieh Deri told a local radio station the relationship was no mere personal matter because Netanyahu is a “symbol of the Jewish people.”

“I know friends of mine who invest tens of millions and more, hundreds of millions to fight assimilation in the world,” Deri told the Kol Barama station. “If God forbid it’s true, woe to us.”

Other groups called on Netanyahu to put a stop to the relationship. Even the prime minister’s brother in law, Hagai Ben-Artzi, took to the airwaves to speak out against it.

“Yair should know that if he does such a thing, if he doesn’t break off the relationship, then … he is spitting on the graves of his grandmother and grandfather who loved him so much and raised him,” Ben-Artzi told Kikar Shabbat, an ultra-Orthodox news site.


Ben-Artzi, an outspoken Jewish nationalist who is often critical of the prime minister, said he had not spoken to the family in months. “Maybe they weren’t in touch because they were afraid to tell me,” he said.

Netanyahu’s office declined to comment, as did Leikanger.

Israel always had an ultra-Orthodox minority of devout and conservative Jews, who currently account for just under a tenth of the population. Thanks to their political clout, the ultra-Orthodox oversee weddings, divorces and burials — meaning that the younger Netanyahu would not be permitted to marry his girlfriend here — if they one day get serious — unless she converts. Orthodox Jewish Law prohibits intermarriage.

In recent years Israel’s internal rupture has become even more complex, with religious Jews of various shades, and ultranationalists, increasingly pitted against a secular population that can be extraordinarily progressive on issues like gay rights. The cultural clash has become so extreme — over issues like the religious desire to segregate the sexes on some bus lines or the refusal by the religious to performing compulsory military service — that many Jews joke the internal divisions are more intractable than the troubles with the Palestinians.

Yossi Sarid, a former Israeli education minister and onetime leader of the secular-rights party Meretz, called the younger Netanyahu’s love life a “private matter.” But he said the uproar among the religious was “nonsense.”

“It’s not fair. You can’t expect fairness from those people,” Sarid said. “They don’t like non-Jews. They don’t like non-Orthodox Jews. They are behaving as fanatics everywhere behave.”

Noah Slepkov, an associate fellow at the Jewish People Policy Institute, said the debate reflects changes taking place within Israel.

While intermarriage has long been a “huge deal” in the United States, he said, where roughly half of American Jews marry outside the faith, it has been a nonissue in Israel because Jews and Arabs almost never marry.

But that has begun to change, due to an influx of foreign workers and the trend of Israelis studying and working abroad in an age of globalization. “It’s certainly a trend that’s at the beginning,” he said, but one that nonetheless can make conservative Israelis feel threatened.

He said the criticism of Netanyahu’s son was counterproductive in a country that increasingly finds itself isolated.

“We’re insecure,” he said. “People need to realize that having a few per cent of our people intermarrying is not going to hurt this.”

Netanyahu himself is a fervent Jewish nationalist and history buff, speaking out strongly against anti-Semitism and other threats facing the Jewish people. He has steadfastly demanded that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the Jewish homeland as part of any peace agreement.

In his younger days, Netanyahu was married to a non-Jewish woman who converted.

Yair, a university student, is the son of Netanyahu’s third wife, Sara.
 

Dead Man

Member
“I know friends of mine who invest tens of millions and more, hundreds of millions to fight assimilation in the world,” Deri told the Kol Barama station. “If God forbid it’s true, woe to us.”

Other groups called on Netanyahu to put a stop to the relationship. Even the prime minister’s brother in law, Hagai Ben-Artzi, took to the airwaves to speak out against it.

“Yair should know that if he does such a thing, if he doesn’t break off the relationship, then … he is spitting on the graves of his grandmother and grandfather who loved him so much and raised him,” Ben-Artzi told Kikar Shabbat, an ultra-Orthodox news site.

The amount of insanity in those three short passages is astounding.
 

Apath

Member
Even non-orthodox Jews can be big on marrying within the religion/culture. Being Jewish is like gaining 5" in height or $100,000/yr in income in terms of attractiveness to a good deal of non-Jewish women.
 

Madness

Member
I don't even know why this is a story. Seems like a family drama.

Because you have influential lawmakers and leaders of political parties decrying the personal relationship of the Prime Minister's son solely because she's not Jewish.

That you have people talking about racial purity and maintaining bloodlines etc.

Imagine if this was the other way, the son or daughter of a Norwegian president/prime minister whatever was dating someone Jewish or of another race, and you had leaders of political parties decrying the relationship, saying they are spitting on their grandmother's graves, wanting to maintain Scandinavian racial purity.

Pretty disgusting, especially since it's the boys personal life. What the hell does anyone else care.
 

S-Wind

Member
Because you have influential lawmakers and leaders of political parties decrying the personal relationship of the Prime Minister's son solely because she's not Jewish.

That you have people talking about racial purity and maintaining bloodlines etc.

Imagine if this was the other way, the son or daughter of a Norwegian president/prime minister whatever was dating someone Jewish or of another race, and you had leaders of political parties decrying the relationship, saying they are spitting on their grandmother's graves, wanting to maintain Scandinavian racial purity.

Pretty disgusting, especially since it's the boys personal life. What the hell does anyone else care.

This.

Even non-orthodox Jews can be big on marrying within the religion/culture. Being Jewish is like gaining 5" in height or $100,000/yr in income in terms of attractiveness to a good deal of non-Jewish women.

Oh?

Tell me more about that.
 
Because you have influential lawmakers and leaders of political parties decrying the personal relationship of the Prime Minister's son solely because she's not Jewish.

That you have people talking about racial purity and maintaining bloodlines etc.

Imagine if this was the other way, the son or daughter of a Norwegian president/prime minister whatever was dating someone Jewish or of another race, and you had leaders of political parties decrying the relationship, saying they are spitting on their grandmother's graves, wanting to maintain Scandinavian racial purity.

Pretty disgusting, especially since it's the boys personal life. What the hell does anyone else care.

You might be surprised how much even some "moderate" American Jewish organizations see "assimilation" as an existential threat to the Jewish people.
 

Lamel

Banned
Because you have influential lawmakers and leaders of political parties decrying the personal relationship of the Prime Minister's son solely because she's not Jewish.

That you have people talking about racial purity and maintaining bloodlines etc.

Imagine if this was the other way, the son or daughter of a Norwegian president/prime minister whatever was dating someone Jewish or of another race, and you had leaders of political parties decrying the relationship, saying they are spitting on their grandmother's graves, wanting to maintain Scandinavian racial purity.

Pretty disgusting, especially since it's the boys personal life. What the hell does anyone else care.

I should have phrased that better, I meant, why is this even a big deal to those people, it is his personal life.

You might be surprised how much even some "moderate" American Jewish organizations see "assimilation" as an existential threat to the Jewish people.

This is true. Some of my rather liberal jewish girl friends only date Jewish guys because their parents say so. I mean this can apply to any race/religion though.
 

S-Wind

Member
You'd figure Jews would be the last people to be racist.

One might think....

But no.

Given how much focus there is in Judaism on an quasi-exclusive group identity, Jews vs. Gentiles, Us vs. THEM, etc., I wonder if being an orthodox Jew makes it more likely that said Jew is racist.
 

Apath

Member
This.



Oh?

Tell me more about that.
It's just a very vapid quality that's looked for. That was meant to be kind of tongue-in-cheek.
One might think....

But no.

Given how much focus there is in Judaism on an quasi-exclusive group identity, Jews vs. Gentiles, Us vs. THEM, etc., I wonder if being an orthodox Jew makes it more likely that said Jew is racist.
I find it very hard to describe, because I don't really see it as racist even though it pretty much is. It's more a way of preserving the culture rather than the "race" of it. But even then, I'm sure there are some that would find marrying someone who converted to be just as "bad" as marrying a non-Jew.

If it's any better, I don't really know many Jews who want to marry another Jew because they find them superior or whatever.
 

Xcellere

Member
I'd write a letter to the ultra-Orthodox community and tell them to suck my Jew nuts as I bang away at the woman I choose to love.
 

jaxword

Member
One might think....

But no.

Given how much focus there is in Judaism on an quasi-exclusive group identity, Jews vs. Gentiles, Us vs. THEM, etc., I wonder if being an orthodox Jew makes it more likely that said Jew is racist.

"Orthodox X" may as well mean "I'm more hardcore about it than you." Doesn't matter if it's Jewish or any other belief system.

Which is just another excuse to lord one's prejudices and bigotry over other people and claim persecution when it's criticized.
 
It's just a very vapid quality that's looked for.
This must be a really well-kept secret, then, because it's the first I've heard of it. Now that I think about it, I seldom hear "Jewish men" being referred to their own category in that context--and about attractiveness as a potential partner--but maybe it's due to the state I've found myself in. (And haven't seen a lot of Jewish people in general, which would be hard to know of unless they were orthodox and wore a yarmulke or something, or rather, hard of many people identify as Jewish. Then again, it seems around 6% of the population in Seattle is Jewish, which isn't a whole lot.)
 
You'd figure Jews would be the last people to be racist.

My sister dated a couple Jewish guys and we're Christian. The flak these guys would get from their elder family members was insane even though the family was quite liberal in their Judaism. The big problem for non-Jewish women dating Jewish guys is that the religion and being "One of the Tribe" is carried on the mother's side. So if they had kids the children would not be seen as Jewish.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's just a very vapid quality that's looked for. That was meant to be kind of tongue-in-cheek.

I find it very hard to describe, because I don't really see it as racist even though it pretty much is. It's more a way of preserving the culture rather than the "race" of it. But even then, I'm sure there are some that would find marrying someone who converted to be just as "bad" as marrying a non-Jew.

If it's any better, I don't really know many Jews who want to marry another Jew because they find them superior or whatever.

A lot of what we would call racism revolves around people who "just want to preserve the culture".
 
Zionism at its finest.

My aunt married a jewish person. His family was cool with it. Really nice people. Israel should learn from them
 
This issue occurs in many ethnic groups or races or religions.

Religious Evangelicals get upset when their kid dates someone of another religion

Some African Americans get pissed when one dates a Caucasian


This is not something that is exclusively Jewish. People tend to believe one should stay with "their own kind," and yeah while there's more religious aspect for Jews since Jewishness is maternal, it's a bias built in in many places.


Nobody should care, it's for his family and his only. People should date an marry who they want, regardless.
 

Reyne

Member
My sister ( Swedish ) is dating a guy from Israel, and they actually broke up because family issues. His family didn't like that she wasn't Jewish, or that she was Swede. Though they got back together somehow. And this wasn't some ultra-orthodox family, like, from what I hear the father would watch TV on sabbath and such things. Yet in the face of this they somehow got more conservative than they had been.
 

jaxword

Member
A conspiracy theorist would argue that being God's elected/chosen people and having a unique covenant with him would make them the first people to be racist.

Ever notice how anyone who claims they are God's Chosen also includes "and my way is the best way or else!"
 
Can't imagine that phone call going well. How do parents tell their twentysomething kids who live thousands of miles away not to date their person of choice?

Ben: Son?
Yair: Yeah dad?
Ben: How's it going?
Yair: Pretty damn good.
Ben: I'll bet. You and your gf have been making a few headlines.
Yair: Well, she's a great girl. And you wouldn't believe what she can...
Ben: Now stop right there. I need you cut this nonsense out. As an envoy of the Jewish faith, I can't convey how embarrassing it is to have you cavorting about with some pretty Norwegian girl.
Yair: ...uh huh
Ben: Son?
Yair: Yeah?
Ben: You aren't sleeping with her right now are you?
Yair: Well I wouldn't exactly call it sleeping...
Ben: Think of your grandmother!
Yair: ...
Ben: ...
Yair: Thanks dad.
Ben: ...you're welcome?
Yair: You gave me another 5 minutes.
Ben: *hangs up*
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
A conspiracy theorist would argue that being God's elected/chosen people and having a unique covenant with him would make them the first people to be racist.

No I wouldn't you did all the work for me and most kooks.

it's their faith and that is their belief which they act on. We are just pointing out the inevitable conclusion us goyim's face along with them if we continue to let them act on such stupid beliefs.
 

studyguy

Member
thumbs_up_matt_leblanc.gif
Nice catch, son.

I'd be a proud father.
 

leadbelly

Banned
It is in the Torah. It's pretty clear and Israel being a primarily Jewish state, this is not surprising. It's also the conservative--read Ultra Orthodox, who are doing this.

*Not that I agree.

I think the reason he was bemused by that statement has nothing to do with the fact that Orthodox Jews do not marry non-Jewish people, but rather how bizarre that statement really is. He has friends that invest hundreds of millions to fight assimilation in the world.

It's like people that invest millions to fight poverty in the world. Help get clean water or medicines to the poor countries that need it. He is saying it in similar way, yet it is to fight assimilation in the world. LOL

Edit: I should say in certain contexts that doesn't seem all that bad. Like preserving cultures that are in danger for instance. That doesn't seem to be context he is saying it in though.
 

Ikael

Member
Identity politics are the bane of mankind. To hell with "identity" and "diversity". Us VS them, stick-to-your-own-kind mentalities never leaded to anything good, ever.

This issue occurs in many ethnic groups or races or religions.

Religious Evangelicals get upset when their kid dates someone of another religion

Some African Americans get pissed when one dates a Caucasian


This is not something that is exclusively Jewish. People tend to believe one should stay with "their own kind," and yeah while there's more religious aspect for Jews since Jewishness is maternal, it's a bias built in in many places.

That's true, this is hardly a Jewish-only thing. That "anti-assimilation" mentality is, sadly, pretty much a staple of the post-modern world. But Matrilinear inheritance of jewishness makes it worse, I think.
 
I'll never get why other people give a shit about who a stranger is fucking.

Also: wtf at them being outraged about intermarriage but then it becomes a non-issue if she converts (ie she completes some silly nonsensical ritualistic process). Gotta believe what the masses believe!
 
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