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[HomerSimpson-Man]

In retrospect I would find it strange that with increasing game created asset sizes to fill up RAM that suddenly DVD would be enough considering devs were filling up just 32 MB of RAM on PS2 with every load and you still easily would have games already magnitudes higher in the gigs as is.

Now with 512 MB of RAM to fill up HD assets per load, well, you get the picture...relative RAM to storage capacity ratio has shrunk immensely with DVD.

 

[JCBossman]

20/20 hindsight is wonderful, but what's done is done, Blu-Ray is in every PS3, the price is set, maybe it's a good idea to find a way to improve Sony's current situation, like making more system-selling software, something that I would love to see David Jaffe do.

Actually that's true, No sense crying over spilled milk....

Get It????????

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Wait...Just skimmed the thread but did Jaffe go from "God of Sony" to "lol Jaffe is an idiot he only makes crappy minigames for PS3 lol" among the Sony hardcore?

No not really, he just stated if he had to change one thing in PS3 it would be to take the Blu ray out. No info on why yet since the whole interview isn't released yet. And as someone stated here about web design, David is currently focused on small games, and isn't really conserned with the disk space. Not that he didn't have it in mind, it's just a lot we don't know. And now we have people saying it's a bad idea to have a larger disk medium, and that it will serve no purpose. Although David wasn't quoted saying blu ray is useless for games. Although I agree, it's best to ditch blu ray than cell, the spu's, the hard drive flexability+standard, and maybe backwards compatability for me.

 

[fortified_concept]

Your insider knowledge is amazing me

Thanks but I can't take the credit. These numbers came from some company that specializes in these things -I can't remember its name now.

 

[InterMoniker]

Jaffe's Blu-ray comments: Sensationalized by Game Trailers?

What a difference a day makes.

Yesterday, internet news sites like Digg.com and GameDaily.biz were on fire with a controversial story in which David Jaffe appeared to recommend dropping Blu-ray from the PlayStation 3. The sites included inflammatory headlines such as "Jaffe: I Would Not Have Included Blu-ray in PS3."

The only problem is, it's becoming increasingly clear that Jaffe didn't actually say this. A trusted source just told GamePro that "it looks like GameTrailers is trying to sensationalize this [controversy] by only using a snippet" of the interview, which is due to air in an upcoming segment.

"Jaffe actually answers that question by saying he thinks the PS3 is perfect the way it is," our source continues, "but in his personal opinion he would have removed Blu-ray to make it cheaper. He goes on to say that Sony is smarter than him when it comes to this stuff."

Sony also tells GamePro that "David Jaffe is an industry pioneer who has earned the right to speak his mind on anything he wants when it comes to videogames." Read the full story here.

Today's talking point: Game Trailers -- newsmakers or sensationalists? We'll have further analysis soon.

It was all a bunch of BS editing.

 

[FrankT]

Jaffe's Blu-ray comments: Sensationalized by Game Trailers?


It was all a bunch of BS editing.

Wait, wait, where's the bullshit he plain as day said he would have removed it? You can put that in context anyway you want it, but at the end of the day it still means the same thing, he would have removed it.

 

[Tieno]

I remember an interview where jaffe made similar comments about blu-ray (the smarmy Luke sending out to die interview?) but in context.

In context it gets much less sensational than Gametrailers made it appear. Kind of like the "**** you up the ass" comment.

Gametrailers is being really cheap with this and kind taking advantage of Jaffe's good will. - respect points. Continue this way so devs get more tightlipped.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I knew it probably was, and the people that like this kinda news about sony enjoyed every bit of that quote. Another day on gaf.

 

[InterMoniker]

I remember an interview where jaffe made similar comments about blu-ray (the smarmy Luke sending out to die interview?) but in context.

In context it gets much less sensational than Gametrailers made it appear. Kind of like the "**** you up the ass" comment.

Gametrailers is being really cheap with this and kind taking advantage of Jaffe's good will. - respect points. Continue this way so devs get more tightlipped.

Agreed + respect to you. Maybe he did say something along those lines, but taken it out of context is lame.

 

[ComputerNerd]

PS2 was perfectly fine with cds at launch. Could have saved some money. Changing disks is no problem. Same with tv remotes, and the sound on cd was the same also.

The difference is the capacity of a CD was already greatly exceeded before the PS2 came out.

Hell, before the PS1 came out, a single CD's space wasn't enough.

The 7th Guest, which came out in 1993, used 2 CD's. Phantasmagoria used 7 CD's.

FF 7 used 3 CD's.

All of which were far prior to the PS2 coming out.

Now look at the 360, which came out a year ago. Can you name a game that even uses 2 DVD's?

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Blue Dragon -three discs
(too easy)

As for the Jaffe statement, I tend to think that his comment about the size of games (and his willingness to this type of format) is more significant than the price of Blu-Ray in the PS3. If direct/online distribution becomes the primairy format for games, Blu-Ray isn't needed in a gaming console. That doesn't remove it's need when applied to HD movies though (and Sony naturally wants to sell this type of media).

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence

EDIT: If your talking just X360, yeah it seems like all I got is Blue Dragon, but looking at MGS3:Subsistence Kojima is going to use that Blu-ray well.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The difference is the capacity of a CD was already greatly exceeded before the PS2 came out.

Hell, before the PS1 came out, a single CD's space wasn't enough.

The 7th Guest, which came out in 1993, used 2 CD's. Phantasmagoria used 7 CD's.

FF 7 used 3 CD's.

All of which were far prior to the PS2 coming out.

Now look at the 360, which came out a year ago. Can you name a game that even uses 2 DVD's?

Don't be lazy. Changing CDs is no problem.

 

[InterMoniker]

Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence

EDIT: If your talking just X360, yeah it seems like all I got is Blue Dragon, but looking at MGS3:Subsistence Kojima is going to use that Blu-ray well.

I didn't know what you meant by just MGS3 but, now that you finished I agree completely.

Hell I even thought MGS3 was kind of short. Maybe I'm too hardcore? :lol

 

[Miburou]

The difference is the capacity of a CD was already greatly exceeded before the PS2 came out.

Hell, before the PS1 came out, a single CD's space wasn't enough.

The 7th Guest, which came out in 1993, used 2 CD's. Phantasmagoria used 7 CD's.

FF 7 used 3 CD's.

All of which were far prior to the PS2 coming out.

Now look at the 360, which came out a year ago. Can you name a game that even uses 2 DVD's?

IIRC, Blue Dragon comes on 3 DVDs. Several PS2 games come on more than one DVD (RPGs. mainly).

 

[MightyHedgehog]

There's probably the better part of a million gamers who are happy that Insomniac was able to flesh out Resistance more than they would have been able to if they had to target DVD. I very much doubt they would have aimed for a multi-disc release.

It doesn't take a high volume of support to make the inclusion worthwhile, just a handful of high-quality game experiences that take advantage of it. When you look at the maximum capabilities of any console, it's really no different. Vast majority of games on any platform won't take full advantage of what it offers, so one could play this tune on each, asking why the manufacturer bothered to spec it "as high" as they did in the first place.

I don't disagree with your basic points, but guess I'm coming at this from the perspective that PS3's current & future success is imperilled by the high cost of the system due to including Blu Ray. That limited success might very well preclude the potential to be taken advantage, except by first parties. Hell, I want the PS3 for just first party content that is coming...once the system's cheaper. I feel that the most people do not, because most people buy just one system and usually the lower priced one.

Wanting, or hell, expecting/demanding a certain level of future-proofing when dropping a $400-$600 investment on a system, isn't "shit". When I buy a system, I want it to serve me well now, AS WELL AS all through its supported life-cycle.

Certainly. Like I said in the response to kaching's post, I guess I'm coming at this from the position that most people aren't going to wait...making potential in the larger media size effectively neutered because there simply won't be as many taking advantage of it outside of Sony's published games.

In the end, I guess I might have an inordinate amount of faith in developers to solve content size inflation through the very things that the next-gen provides in horsepower and bandwidth with the adoption of better procedural solutions and compression.

 

[satterfield]

I remember an interview where jaffe made similar comments about blu-ray (the smarmy Luke sending out to die interview?) but in context.

In context it gets much less sensational than Gametrailers made it appear. Kind of like the "**** you up the ass" comment.

Gametrailers is being really cheap with this and kind taking advantage of Jaffe's good will. - respect points. Continue this way so devs get more tightlipped.

All will be clear very soon. Please don't jump to conclusions. I only hope that you'll view the publications reporting the "sensationalism" statements the same way you just tried to treat us when the truth comes out.

 

[Grecco]

I think i read in an interview with the guy behind Ninja Gaiden Sigma where he said that all Blue Ray provided was "more space"

So yeah i think Jaffe is right.

 

[spwolf]

In the end, I guess I might have an inordinate amount of faith in developers to solve content size inflation through the very things that the next-gen provides in horsepower and bandwidth with the adoption of better procedural solutions and compression.

except that it saved me a lot of money with it being an BD player...
Of course, I know... not many people watch movies...

:lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

except that it saved me a lot of money with it being an BD player...
Of course, I know... not many people watch or want to pay to watch HD movies...

:lol

Fixed.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

They really should have disabled BR movie play back. That would make people more happy knowing their system is mainly a game machine. And no access to the hdd, linux, dvd movies, web browsing, folding (screensaver waste of gaming potiential), cd music. The usb storage drives/external hdd/SD/MStick/and that other thing should only be used for firmware update, and game saves. Some other none game stuff slipped through the cracks that the system just so happen to have the ability to do I'm sure.

Edit: oh get rid of the wifi too. No one use that crap. They can buy their own.

 

[Joe211]

I think i read in an interview with the guy behind Ninja Gaiden Sigma where he said that all Blue Ray provided was "more space"

So yeah i think Jaffe is right.

I don't remember that :/

 

[MrSardonic]

What the **** is going on here?

Jaffe clearly said he would not have included Blu-Ray in order to reduce costs. Big deal. A bunch of people on the developer side of the industry probably share that opinion. But it doesn't mean they aren't going to support the PS3, it doesn't mean the PS3 is doomed, and it isn't much of a dig at Sony.

I don't see anything that merits criticism of Jaffe, SDF deployment, Sony bashing, or an attack on Gametrailers' credibility. It must be a slow week for news.

 

[spwolf]

They really should have disabled BR movie play back. That would make people more happy knowing their system is mainly a game machine. And no access to the hdd, linux, dvd movies, web browsing, folding (screensaver waste of gaming potiential), cd music. The usb storage drives/external hdd/SD/MStick/and that other thing should only be used for firmware update, and game saves. Some other none game stuff slipped through the cracks that the system just so happen to have the ability to do I'm sure.

actually, they should have made movie player and web browser DLC...

- Movie Player for PS3 - $30 per 10 movies watched
- Web Browser - $3 per month, $20 per year

!!!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

So is Jaffe still shitty or is he awesome again? I'm really having trouble keeping track.

 

[karasu]

What the **** is going on here?

Jaffe clearly said he would not have included Blu-Ray in order to reduce costs. Big deal. A bunch of people on the developer side of the industry probably share that opinion. But it doesn't mean they aren't going to support the PS3, it doesn't mean the PS3 is doomed, and it isn't much of a dig at Sony.

I don't see anything that merits criticism of Jaffe, SDF deployment, Sony bashing, or an attack on Gametrailers' credibility. It must be a slow week for news.

He also said the PS3 is perfect the way it is. Maybe he's okay with removing the Blu-Ray drive to reduce cost because he's into making smaller games right now.

 

[spwolf]

So is Jaffe still shitty or is he awesome again? I'm really having trouble keeping track.

good way to summarize it is that PS3 with BD sucks big time arse... but if Elite would have included HD-DVD for $600 it would have been end of the world as we know it... and Sony would be doomed!!! Since HDMI is great, especially with free HDMI cable!!!

:lol

 

[quest]

They really should have disabled BR movie play back. That would make people more happy knowing their system is mainly a game machine. And no access to the hdd, linux, dvd movies, web browsing, folding (screensaver waste of gaming potiential), cd music. The usb storage drives/external hdd/SD/MStick/and that other thing should only be used for firmware update, and game saves. Some other none game stuff slipped through the cracks that the system just so happen to have the ability to do I'm sure.

Edit: oh get rid of the wifi too. No one use that crap. They can buy their own.

I kind of like that sell the PS3 as a game machine for 399 then if you want movie play back pay 200 dollars. Get rid of the WiFI sounds good to me I would not use it why should I pay for it. The rest of the stuff you mention costs users nothing and are freebies which are a good thing.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

good way to summarize it is that PS3 with BD sucks big time arse... but if Elite would have included HD-DVD for $600 it would have been end of the world as we know it... and Sony would be doomed!!! Since HDMI is great, especially with free HDMI cable!!!

:lol

So...Jaffe's awesome again? I hope so, I like it way better when he's awesome.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I kind of like that sell the PS3 as a game machine for 399 then if you want movie play back pay 200 dollars. Get rid of the WiFI sounds good to me I would not use it why should I pay for it.

Then get a xbox 360 core. Win win.

The rest of the stuff you mention costs users nothing and are freebies which are a good thing.

Well what do people think the blu ray movie play back is? HDD is there for the games to have something to dump data onto, the storage slots are for inputting data to be used in games, blu ray is there because it provide more storage space than dvd9 and for some reason sony thinks devs would probably need the space in the future (should stick to cds like I said, would save loads of money), the list goes on. And you can pretend the slots and hdd don't cost users but everything in the system has a price -the spiderman font.

 

[DarienA]

So is Jaffe still shitty or is he awesome again? I'm really having trouble keeping track.

You took my line dammit!

 

[satterfield]

So did we "sensationalize" Jaffe's comment? Here's the entire question and answer.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=18539

 

[AAK]

beaten. b*****d

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So did we "sensationalize" Jaffe's comment? Here's the entire question and answer.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=18539

Well, it's ironic that all of the websites shown, especially Gamepro, were the ones to sensationalize the comment.

beaten. b*****d

:lol Indeed.

 

[sangreal]

So did we "sensationalize" Jaffe's comment? Here's the entire question and answer.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=18539

:lol gamepro owned

"Jaffe actually answers that question by saying he thinks the PS3 is perfect the way it is," our source continues

...

it's becoming increasingly clear that Jaffe didn't actually say this

bullshit

 

[DCharlie]

just a though - if Sony had went with DVD but kept the same base line price of the machine then with that extra budget surely they'd have had a machine that would at least match the X360 media wise but would have had a huge spec boost ?

I mean - if the bluray drives are really adding $XXX per unit, couldn't we have been throwing in more ram, 2 cells, dual GPUs etc?

(yes, i'm ignoring a bvillion factors - but i'd have taken higher specs with DVD over Bluray personally)

 

[MightyHedgehog]

just a though - if Sony had went with DVD but kept the same base line price of the machine then with that extra budget surely they'd have had a machine that would at least match the X360 media wise but would have had a huge spec boost ?

I mean - if the bluray drives are really adding $XXX per unit, couldn't we have been throwing in more ram, 2 cells, dual GPUs etc?

(yes, i'm ignoring a bvillion factors - but i'd have taken higher specs with DVD over Bluray personally)

More RAM would've been the biggest inclusion possible, IMO. Still, and I think you've stated this before yourself, software was way behind and that was one of the biggest problems at the Spring 2006 time period.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

And it's time for dancing! Congratz guys he said he would take blu ray out to save money. How does it feel? Any comments?

 

[Wollan]

Adding more ram instead of a blu-ray drive would be kinda counter-productive. Change discs every three levels on a 2GB ram PS3 with hell of a loading time to boot (unless they went for full install with every game).

 

[DCharlie]

And it's time for dancing! Congratz guys he said he would take blu ray out to save money. How does it feel? Any comments?

yeah, i don't get it either.

i don't see where the win/loss is .... perhaps i'm tired ?

Adding more ram instead of a blu-ray drive would be kinda counter-productive. Change discs every three levels on a 2GB ram PS3 with hell of a loading time to boot (unless they went for full install with every game).

HDD cache/install would be fine - and with the cash you save on the bluray you can throw in a way bigger HDD AND RAM!

Re: loadtimes - it's not like the PS3 without hard drive caching is speedy!

 

[gamergirly]

And it's time for dancing! Congratz guys he said he would take blu ray out to save money. How does it feel? Any comments?

It's more fun to drop the price later

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Adding more ram instead of a blu-ray drive would be kinda counter-productive. Change discs every three levels on a 2GB ram PS3 with hell of a loading time to boot (unless they went for full install with every game).

If Sony's still including the standard HDD in this hypothetical situation, you can just force a first run 'install' to mitigate the subsequent loading. Hell, there are already games that offer this same option with the current situation. 1GB of RAM would have been pretty amazing and allowed for better overall texture resolutions and detail. I can't think of why any developer would choose Blu Ray over double the RAM.

 

[RichieRich]

 

[RichieRich]

This'll bite me in the ass in 4 years cause it was probably a smart decision but I probably would have taken the Blu-Ray out and sold it for less money.

He really didn't say that, did he? :lol :lol :lol

 

[AAK]

Well, you did skip the part where Jaffe says that it will bite him in the a** in 4 years because he said it was a good decision...

 

[sangreal]

Well, you did skip the part where Jaffe says that it will bite him in the a** in 4 years because he said it was a good decision...

he didn't say it was a good decision he said it "was probably a smart decision"

 

[AAK]

beh, just switch smart/good/was/probably you get the point.

 

[kaching]

I don't disagree with your basic points, but guess I'm coming at this from the perspective that PS3's current & future success is imperilled by the high cost of the system due to including Blu Ray. That limited success might very well preclude the potential to be taken advantage, except by first parties. Hell, I want the PS3 for just first party content that is coming...once the system's cheaper. I feel that the most people do not, because most people buy just one system and usually the lower priced one.

What kind of scenario do you expect to play out here that is so dire that the PS3 doesn't even manage to get the kind of support that even Xbox and GC managed last gen?

And so what if it *is* imperilled? It'd suck to be Sony or one of their fans on these boards in that case but are the alternatives to the PS3 suddenly non-viable gaming machines?

Almost to a man this forum declares that competition is imperative for the good of the industry and consumers, in no small part because it provides the consumer the option to choose what best suits their needs/desires. Yet in every one of these BD threads, we have numerous people actively campaigning for the removal of an option that's been given them. So what's the real worth to the consumer in demanding Sony take a safer approach with the PS3 that ultimately just creates more overlap, more homogeneity, with competing products?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What kind of scenario do you expect to play out here that is so dire that the PS3 doesn't even manage to get the kind of support that even Xbox and GC managed last gen?

And so what if it *is* imperilled? It'd suck to be Sony or one of their fans on these boards in that case but are the alternatives to the PS3 suddenly non-viable gaming machines?

Almost to a man this forum declares that competition is imperative for the good of the industry and consumers, in no small part because it provides the consumer the option to choose what best suits their needs/desires. Yet in every one of these BD threads, we have numerous people actively campaigning for the removal of an option that's been given them. So what's the real worth to the consumer in demanding Sony take a safer approach with the PS3 that ultimately just creates more overlap, more homogeneity, with competing products?

Hmmm...I guess I feel that the media size has almost nothing to do with the games when going from DVD to BRD. Software should be the prime differentiator in a platform. Difference in viewpoint, I suppose.

 

[rollingstart]

So did we "sensationalize" Jaffe's comment? Here's the entire question and answer.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=wmv&id=18539

oh gamepro