TransientJetlag
Banned
I don't trust the court system and you shouldn"t either. If we blindly follow the court system we'd all believe that Trump's muslim ban was unconstitutional, and abortion isn't murder.
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Jay Z convinced Meek Mill to not meet with Trump to discuss prison reform
- Thread starter dolabla
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Turbo Killer
Member
Not sure if serious.
a multicultural team of v
Member
I can't fucking wait until Trump pardons Alice Johnson, the meltdowns will be glorious.
Trump will do basically anything someone who he trusts tells him, no matter where it falls politically or who it pisses off, so long as they can convince him. If you want to get Trump to do something with the least amount of effort, get his kids on board. I dunno why Kim fucking Kardashian of all fucking people seems to be one of the few people to figure this out.
Trump will do basically anything someone who he trusts tells him, no matter where it falls politically or who it pisses off, so long as they can convince him. If you want to get Trump to do something with the least amount of effort, get his kids on board. I dunno why Kim fucking Kardashian of all fucking people seems to be one of the few people to figure this out.
highrider
Banned
It’s not personal. I actually said that democratic presidents were just as bad on prison reform. We disagree on the whether the president really cares about the issue, and my response is it’s self evident that he doesn’t. You also seem to have a blind spot for what an artist like Meek has to have in order to be successful, and meeting with Trump just isn’t going to help him. He’s not Kanye, who people will tolerate due to the quality of music he’s capable of, but Meek is just a good rapper that needs his support of his community, that aren’t lily white middle aged Trump guys.
Pallas
Member
We can agree to disagree about this. Whether he actually cares or not is unknown to me, but to put it simply he wanted to have dialogue with Meek. If progress is to be made, there has to be dialogue. Last I check, you don’t have to support the guy or even like him to discuss something of importance, it helps but it’s not mandatory. That’s the difference between Meek and Kanye(who actually felt a backlash) who appears to support Trump.
His community not being “lily white middle aged trump guys” is also a bizarre thing to say. You don’t think other individuals, other ethnic groups don’t listen to him? Would you stop listening to Meek if he opened dialogue with POTUS
highrider
?
highrider
Banned
I don’t listen to meek mill, but the people that do, aren’t Trump supporters.We can agree to disagree about this. Whether he actually cares or not is unknown to me, but to put it simply he wanted to have dialogue with Meek. If progress is to be made, there has to be dialogue. Last I check, you don’t have to support the guy or even like him to discuss something of importance, it helps but it’s not mandatory. That’s the difference between Meek and Kanye(who actually felt a backlash) who appears to support Trump.
His community not being “lily white middle aged trump guys” is also a bizarre thing to say. You don’t think other individuals, other ethnic groups don’t listen to him? Would you stop listening to Meek if he opened dialogue with POTUS
Pallas
Member
My apologies for assuming, but my point still stands that he can talk with the man and not support him. He had a chance to potentially do something good for not only his community but communities all around. We can all shake our heads and say nothing would change, but we won’t know, because he didn’t talk with him.
LegendOfKage
Member
Ignoring Trump for a moment, can anyone tell me what Obama either tried to do about prison reform, or publicly acknowledged that the wanted to do, but was blocked by political opposition?
And getting back to the current situation, what possible goals has Trump publicly talked about for prison reform? Have there even been any?
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MMaRsu
Banned
Yup its his attitude, not your crazy insane president! Not the countless shootings that take place in a modern country! Not the bigoted racism that is still prevelant across many americans! Not the rightwing politicians who want to get more cash for all the companies they lobby for and meet up with, and put their interests before the people!
No its this random guys attitude on a gaming forum that is destroying America.
Very sad indeed.
MMaRsu
Banned
Is this post for real? He has black friends so thats why he does care about minorities?
LOL
He's a troll.
Vicetrailia
Member
There were some executive actions, so it can be reversed:
- Created the data driven justice initiative. This opened communication between forces in towns and cities with a focus on cutting unnecessary arrests and reducing pre-trial holdings.
- Clemency initiative (release non-violent prisoners with pardons).
- Established the President’s Task Force on 21st Century Policing. It focused on high impact reform and published reports. Obama made a few moves based on their reports such as removing the criminal history box from most federal contract positions.
- Estsblished the Federal Interagency Law Enforcement Equipment Working Group in response to Ferguson. It targeted acquisition and use of military grade equipment. Trump reversed all of their work.
- Spearheaded the justice department smart on crime initiative. It "increased focus on violent and serious crime, decreased prosecutions for low-level, non-violent offenses, seeing a 20% drop in charges."
- Revised the Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant. The justice dept removed some incentives to increase unnecessary incarceration on non-violent crime, including mandatory reporting on volume of arrests, amount of drugs seized, and the number of new drug-related cases opened.
- Signed an executive action to phase out private prisons, that's gone.
- Reduced the 100-to-1 sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine.
- Hosted round tables in response to Ferguson between law enforcement officials and activists like BLM.
There's lots of things I'm missing. He also wrote this article for Donald Trump and the Justice Department: https://harvardlawreview.org/2017/01/the-presidents-role-in-advancing-criminal-justice-reform/
So far just lip service...but it took Obama a bit before he could really get at justice reform.
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Super Mario
Banned
The decline of African Americans being incarcerated has been falling since 2000. You know, when we left the Clinton years, and started the Bush presidency.
Ask the average Liberal who has hurt black people more. Bill Clinton or Donald Trump. The answers are funny, and sad. Apparently, it was better when incarceration was at record high vs unemployment being at record lows. Good for Meek to keep the misconceptions going. Really "helps the cause".
But Trump rolled back the majority if not most of these reforms. But somehow lip service will make it better?
Vicetrailia
Member
The decline of African Americans being incarcerated has been falling since 2000. You know, when we left the Clinton years, and started the Bush presidency.
Ask the average Liberal who has hurt black people more. Bill Clinton or Donald Trump. The answers are funny, and sad. Apparently, it was better when incarceration was at record high vs unemployment being at record lows. Good for Meek to keep the misconceptions going. Really "helps the cause".
Ronald Reagan, Bush Senior, Clinton. Clinton did add some reforms though.
Cyclone, Trump won't make it better, he wants an authority resurgence. We'll be campaigned on it.
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pr0cs
Member
Meeting with trump and then stating that you're not happy with his views or plans or that he wasn't receptive to your input would be one thing but to simply not go is stupid and shallow and short sighted.. Par for the course for Jay-Z.. Not surprising really from such a pretentious turd I guess
WaterAstro
Member
Talking to Trump would definitely make anyone look bad.
Sakura Doritos
Member
Let me get this straight. American politicians have a history of doing a lackluster jobs in some areas, Trump invites conversations to take place and people cancel or rebuke the invitations and he's the one cited as being an apathetic person?
I dislike Trump but man some people just got a hard on for him that stands out. Dude could cure cancer and people would find something to project on him.
highrider
Banned
That’s just plain naive. Trump gets something from it, look closer. You don’t think he’s thrilled that Kanye or any black entertainer would meet with him. It’s not some magnanimous offer, hey meek let’s brainstorm, c’mon bro.
This mindset upsets me so much. I don't give a fuck what trump could possibly gain from anything. I would rather problems get talked about and possible fixes implemented. Why does anyone care that trump gets some "street cred" for meeting with black people. This is the problem with the black community today. We are too worried that someone on the other side will get some fictitious credibility that we won't even meet with them. Don't give me the whole "they aren't genuine" argument either. Its the same thing just spoken with different words. I don't care if they mean to fix anything or not. If they are willing to hear you out speak with them, what is the worst that could happen? they don't do anything you want. Ok what can happen if you don't speak with them, oh yea the same thing. At least when you speak with them there is a chance, no matter how small, that they will listen and actually do some of the things you talk to them about.
Vicetrailia
Member
Please watch, fool me once shame on me. People learn from the past. It's better to exchange emails until Trump is actually ready to put up, and not just use meek for PR.
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TheShadowLord
Member
to be honest, if Trump stop using twitter so much and showed some restraint, then maybe some people wouldn't keep criticizing him. And maybe he should apologize for his stance on Haitian immigrants, the Obama birth conspiracy. You can read this if you are interested Trump Viewed Less Negatively on Issues, but Most Americans Are Critical of His Conduct
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BANGS
Banned
Yup, his attitude is what allows all that shit to happen. Savagely brainwashed...
BANGS
Banned
Hug a thug today!
Cato
Banned
Brave move JayZ.
Your theory is basically that you not having any input or have your voice heard at that table will make the reform proposals for the folks you care about better?
Interesting strategy.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Why would a President meet with a random person to discuss this anyway? Seems like a complete waste of time.
BANGS
Banned
That random person has a certain skin color, so apparently that means he can speak for and represent everyone else with that same skin color in this country...
Vicetrailia
Member
This is fingerwagging.
There is no reform. All of Obamas reform minded executive actions would still be in place if there were. Obama left Trump a guide to police reform, he doesn't need Meek Mill.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
I've been to Cracker Barrel a bunch of times in my life. I always get Country Fried Steak. Love it.
But doing so hasn't given me any knowledge of how they make it, how much they should charge, how much they should pay cooks to make it, or how much they should pay for the meat. I just know how to eat it.
They don't in Chicago. Especially these gang members, they keep the cycle going and going. They shoot my homie I shoot theirs, around and around and around. If they actually learned from the past they would stop shooting each other and focus on building their community instead of tearing it down. Also Chicago has been blue since the turn of the last century, and they still keep voting the same way with 0 results.
TheShadowLord
Member
who knows but I do know that Trump wants to meet Colin Kapernick or however you say his name.
Vicetrailia
Member
Yes splintered gangs are tunnel visioned and focused on themselves, but there is no single thing that people do.There are new generations, new cycles, reforming trends, persistent poverty, and etc. to contend with. In that video you followed a former gangbanger who became a community organizer.
The most consistent thing is that while young everyone wants to succeed as fast as possible, get rich and get out of the ghetto, poverty, etc. Who influences you, and what options are available.
There are plenty of people who advocate that, the problem is poverty. People outgrow the fast-life and learn the same thing. You don't wait for the government to start giving a fuck and inject resources whilst you have nothing (if it ever gets the will to do so, Chicago has not yet).
The government does not have the will to do it, Democrat or not.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So happy Jay-Z told him this. If Trump was serious about prision reform, he can start speaking with his own GOP party about it first, instead of doing a photo op with a rapper. Many people over there in Congress are serious about it.
I think your animosity towards Trump is blinding you. Trump is not a pre-2016 Republican, but too many of the R's in Congress still are. He talks to them first and they will delay, say no, etc. But if he gets the people on his side with respect to an issue and that issue gets lots of attention, then the R's in Congress start listening because they know his wrath can potentially end their political career. I can understand wanting to replace him with someone else next election, but why not take advantage where possible until we have a new president? Too much all or nothing and we end up in the same place in 2018 as in 2000.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because he's shown no desire to work on prison reform. So why give him that photo op? Let Trump hit the American stomp for 6 weeks and push for it publically on FoxNews and at rallies. And then it'll make sense for rappers like Meek Mill to speak to Trump about it.
But why would Meek have to talk to Trump about it first? Like Trump has said that he wants to speak to Colin Kaepernick....but why and for what? He has trashed him publically for years now so why would Colin want to do a photo op and speak with Trump all of a sudden? What's in it for them?
I'm not saying he has to talk to him. Meek wanted to talk to him if I understand correctly. I assume he thought talking might help get the most powerful office in the world trying to take steps Meek wanted. Other than that, no clue what is in it for Meek.
Regarding CK, I'm not saying he has to talk to him or anything at all. I dont blame CK for not wanting to talk to him either after being trashed. My issue is only that an influential person is being told to not try using their voice for change under veiled threat that he will lose his influence for not toeing a party line and actually talking.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Both Meek and CK are using their influence for change. Meek is actually working with mayors and state legislators right now in the state of Pennsylvania to pass new parole laws in that state. Jay-Z is the main person that paid for Meek to get out of jail also. He was the one that reached out to certain people to change Meek's situation. He has more of an understanding where to guide him in order for change to happen. Jay was just a friend and business man helping another friend out.
Trump didn't listen to billionaires and even larger more prominent celebrities about absolutely pressing matters like climate change. Why does anyone think he's gonna start listening to a black man and rapper about prison reform? This guy has Jeff Sessions as his Attorney General. Prison reform is nowhere on his list of concerns.
Some of the black american posters here dont care if he has black friends or actually cares about black people, and would rather focus on getting things done. Who gives a shit if he cares or not, if something positive gets done. I do know that not talking to him and telling others to do the same will definitely not get anything positive done.
Which is exactly why they're mostly ambivalent on the idea of Trump getting things done which is reflected by the larger voting pattern of black Americans. Words mean little and if he was serious he would already be doing something. If anything happening was dependent on a meeting with Meek Mills two years into his term then it's pretty safe to say it was never a priority. Besides apply your argument fairly, would you say the 8 years of obstruction by conservatives was a terrible thing because NOT working with Obama and telling others to do the same will definitely not get anything positive done?
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Yep it was. It was stupid for conservatives to not meet with Obama, even if he wasn't going to use their ideas. Its better to be in the room, that on the outside. Some of your points could possibly stick, which they definitely won't if you don't go.
For the part about it being 2 years into his term, prison reform was not have been at the top of his agenda, immigration obviously was. It is something he seems to be looking into now. He had a summit on it last week, I think it was the day this post was started.
Again, whether he was serious or not doesn't matter to me. If he wants to talk about it, have the talk. If nothing gets done, what have you lost? Oh no he used you as a photo op, that will mean nothing when changes don't happen. Its a win-win as I see it. If you go and he does nothing, you get to say see he doesn't care and have proof. If you go and he gets the ideas implemented, you pushed for positive change and got something to happen.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why would Trump want to talk to Meek (a rapper) but not 15 Mayors on this?
Bolivar687
Banned
USA Today | Trump pushes for prison reform at White House summit. Will some reform lead to more?
The Atlantic | Democrats Split Over Trump's Prison Pitch
Politico | Trump-backed prison reform bill sails through House
The Hill | Trump has exposed Democratic hypocrisy on prison reform
Anyone in a representative democracy convincing people to disengage from the political process is, objectively, a fool. The fact that this is being orchestrated by someone aspiring to become a billionaire is borderline nefarious. Democracies are inherently defined by people of different backgrounds and perspectives coming together to find common ground and craft policy. Economic and cultural elites dictating from the top-down when and how they will allow policy to move forward is, by definition, an aristocracy.
To see some of you in here actually defending this as a good thing is unthinkable. I'm going to reiterate what a Gaffer of Korean descent said when the war was officially declared over: you guys really need to take a step back and honestly ask yourselves why tribalism means so much to you.
Meek Mill could have been a part of this and he instead let another grown man dictate his behavior. This is Obama dropping the phone on Jimmy Kimmel levels of L-taking. The only question is if the rest of you want to be exposed along with them.
The Atlantic | Democrats Split Over Trump's Prison Pitch
Politico | Trump-backed prison reform bill sails through House
The Hill | Trump has exposed Democratic hypocrisy on prison reform
Anyone in a representative democracy convincing people to disengage from the political process is, objectively, a fool. The fact that this is being orchestrated by someone aspiring to become a billionaire is borderline nefarious. Democracies are inherently defined by people of different backgrounds and perspectives coming together to find common ground and craft policy. Economic and cultural elites dictating from the top-down when and how they will allow policy to move forward is, by definition, an aristocracy.
To see some of you in here actually defending this as a good thing is unthinkable. I'm going to reiterate what a Gaffer of Korean descent said when the war was officially declared over: you guys really need to take a step back and honestly ask yourselves why tribalism means so much to you.
Meek Mill could have been a part of this and he instead let another grown man dictate his behavior. This is Obama dropping the phone on Jimmy Kimmel levels of L-taking. The only question is if the rest of you want to be exposed along with them.
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Vicetrailia
Member
Ah so some back end stuff huh, better than nothing. Also meek didn't attend because he felt like he would be a distraction.
Maybe just maybe it's the already strong history of Trump's fuckery in office has burned people out on trying to deal with him. Not too mention putting Jared Kushner in charge of anything means it's already most likely a non starter.
Vicetrailia
Member
Meek was invited to share his experiences on his recent experience, obviously the legislation was already made.
But he didn't attend because....
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