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[Pie and Beans]

Does anyone here honestly think that blocking Article 50 and trying to seek Britain's staying in the EU through parliamentary veto is a workable plan? Labour need to leave the 'we really can stop all this and have another referendum and win!' fantasies to the Lib Dems and apply pressure to the government to err on the side of Soft Brexit, that's the only halfway plausible plan of action I see for them.

[edit] Which is not to say it's a good plan, just that it's the best plan out of their very poor list of options.

The problem with using the 3-line whip here and now on this is that it is about ego and short term. The fact is, this generation is lost to the Tory party's whims. Corbyn will fade into the moss and the Labour party will have to reinvent itself. Again.

Much like certain Labour members got the chance to pull the "well I was against the Iraq war!!" populist card, when Brexit finally becomes known and accepted as a bigly bad idea by a majority due to hindsight, some will look to the Labour members that opposed it all the way along to show that they were the ones with the foresight and wisdom required to lead a country.

But no. Corbyn seemingly loathes the EU so everyone has to jump even before a plan has been set out.

When is Labour going to split?

After an election if any Corbyn populists still try to wrestle control I guess. Their God King of Socialism must be slain in the public arena of combat known as "General Election" so savagely that all their "b-b-b-b-but kindly Grandad!!!!" arguments turn to mud in their mouths.

 

[FunkyMonk]

As I said, I think the choices are awful, but he'd be dragged for absolute filth if he gave them a free vote, on everything from 'defying the people' by the right wing press to 'lack of strong leadership' by the left.

The most important thing for Labour to do, as I said the other day, is have some semblance of a plan. They have nothing right now. Absolutely nothing.

Aye I see your point but it's his own actions that got him into this position and your last point is the one that bothers me because at the moment there's no-one challenging the government effectively. The way things stand right now my 5 month old son will be nearly 9 by the time there's a non-tory government and the NHS will have been nickled and dimed to death.

(Optimistic eh?)

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I guess May's speech satisfied him then?

Damn.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Corbyn has fucked you guys over.

 

[whyamihere]

This is what Corbyn wanted all along.

Labour is going to be absolutely destroyed next election and Corbyn will blame everyone but himself.

 

[Gurgelhals]

This is what Corbyn wanted all along.

Labour is going to be absolutely destroyed next election and Corbyn will blame everyone but himself.

Plot twist: Trump was never a Democrat plant. It's Corbyn that was actually a Tory plant.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

Plot twist: Trump was never a Democrat plant. It's Corbyn that was actually a Tory plant.

They promised him the rarest manhole cover in the world, he couldn't refuse.

 

[Condom]

Gee, I wonder why a bunch of Dems are hard line against economic Populists?

Because they threaten their centrist beliefs. Don't act like it's about anything else, as if economic leftism can't be politically successful. Centrist and leftist are ideological opponents.

Anyway it's a shit situation all around. I'd abstain from voting.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Oh come on Jezza. The fuck, mate? 😐

 

[giant_frying_pan]

Labour to move beneath the Greens, Lib Dems and RISE in Scotland, confirmed.

 

[Lagamorph]

So what actually happens if he does implement a three line whip and a Labour MP still votes against it? What are the possible repurcussions? Is the MP basically sacked immediately/automatically and a by-election triggered?

 

[MrS]

Thanks to our broken as fuck voting system that majority can be totally ignored.

The majority wanted Brexit (Source: Brexit referendum results)

 

[Juicy Bob]

This was two months ago.

Corbyn: Labour will block Article 50 if Theresa May cannot guarantee single market access

 

[giant_frying_pan]

So what actually happens if he does implement a three line whip and a Labour MP still votes against it? What are the possible repurcussions? Is the MP basically sacked immediately/automatically and a by-election triggered?

Nah. They could get de-listed at the next general election though and have to run as an independent.

 

[Audioboxer]

Bizarrely Labour claimed May's recent speech about leaving the single market entirely proved that they'd forced the government into a soft Brexit.

Also polls show a slump in support for them for like the 4th month in a row

Fucking hell...

Tories can pretty much be comically evil and their polls... Go up. Labour...

 

[Auctopus]

This was two months ago.

Everytime Corbyn flip flops, I think of that cringey interview where he's almost gagging on the words "I want to be PM".

 

[BlastProcessing]

Is Corbyn an idiot, a shitbag, or both?

 

[Bleepey]

I knew a girl who said Corbyn was passionately remain. Shame I don't talk to her anymore, I would be saying told you so so god damn much.

 

[StrawberryJam]

What a total prick.

 

[jakonovski]

Out of general curiosity, what should be the opposition plan at this moment?

 

[Dragonite]

I don't understand, it sounds like people will shit on Corbyn no matter what he does. Didn't the majority of people vote to leave?
If it's possible to block the decision, that will piss off even more people.

 

[Ogodei]

Some party in the country has to be smart enough to grab 49% of the electorate who wanted to Remain. If you're the only party advocating for that position, bam, instant Mandate.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

the world can't stop fucking up.

 

[Suikoguy]

What else can JC do? The decision was made when the people voted out. Voting against article 50 would make no sense at all.

I thought the vote was non-binding?

 

[JoeM86]

I thought the vote was non-binding?

Correct. Something that many people, including politicians, seem to forget.

 

[PJV3]

Some party in the country has to be smart enough to grab 49% of the electorate who wanted to Remain. If you're the only party advocating for that position, bam, instant Mandate.

People are for and against the EU for very different reasons, social Europe and economic Europe to put it as simply as possible. A pro Europe Tory isn't going to tolerate labour economic policies.

 

[autumnleaf]

What is his bloody problem. His half-assed campaigning for remain is part of the reason we're in this mess. He is utterly spineless.

 

[Suikoguy]

Correct. Something that many people, including politicians, seem to forget.

It would not be without it's risks certainly.

But the preference vote was not exactly lopsided either.

 

[avaya]

I thought the vote was non-binding?

Furthermore given the closeness of the result there is no mandate whatsoever for a ideologically driven hard Brexit at all.

He could point that out and form the opposition based on that. However the man is a cretin.

 

[StayDead]

Furthermore given the closeness of the result there is no mandate whatsoever for a ideologically driven hard Brexit at all.

He could point that out and form the opposition based on that. However the man is a cretin.

I was a Corbyn supporter but after this he can go fuck himself for that exact reasoning.

 

[Zelias]

Stayers should all dump Labour and vote Lib-Dem

This is currently my plan. Not that it matters, I'm in a very safe Labour seat.

I liked Corbyn and wanted him to succeed, but he's been nothing but a disappointment. Not like Labour really has anyone else though. The entire party is unfit for purpose.

 

[zonetrooper5]

Voted leave myself but it would be nice if Labour actually did have some balls to keep the Tories in check on alot of issues that face this country. Also, forget about the Greens or Lib Dems becoming major players, they have a few good policies but most of it just utter tosh.

 

[Joni]

Let's hope this can give room for the Lib Dems to steal as much remain votes as possible. They seem like the last sane English party.

 

[avaya]

The remain Labour MPs should just crossover to the Lib Dems. The Labour party is unsalvageable now, if Momentum and the North wants to fuck itself, let it.

It's like Labour is destined to witness an SDP style break-up every so often, this time it'll be worse. Last time, 35+ years ago it was because the nutjobs committed to unilateral nuclear disarmament and exiting the EEA, Corbyn amongst the cabal of idiots. It's 2016 and the moron in charge has decided to commit to Article 50, warts and all.

 

[PJV3]

This is currently my plan. Not that it matters, I'm in a very safe Labour seat.

I liked Corbyn and wanted him to succeed, but he's been nothing but a disappointment. Not like Labour really has anyone else though. The entire party is unfit for purpose.

Yeah, I hoped Corbyn would kick-start the party to move beyond Blair/Iraq etc and come up with ideas and policies. Instead the PLP acted like complete twats and we now have a leader who thinks he can win an election when the PLP has declared no confidence in him.


A collection of tossers on all sides.

 

[StayDead]

Let's hope this can give room for the Lib Dems to steal as much remain votes as possible. They seem like the last sane English party.

By then it's too late though. We're stuck with the tories for 4 more years and we're likely going to be stuck out of the EU poor as hell for the next 30 years.

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

 

[autumnleaf]

At this point we need the SNP to offer candidates in south of the border so we can get an actual opposition.

 

[avaya]

By then it's too late though. We're stuck with the tories for 4 more years and we're likely going to be stuck out of the EU poor as hell for the next 30 years.

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

I can. It's somewhat refreshing in a way, realising I have nothing in common with people outside of the major metro areas. People talk of unity. There will be no unity. Ever again.

 

[hohoXD123]

What's with these posts, did people really want Labour to defy the referendum result and vote against triggering article 50?

 

[D4Danger]

At this point we need the SNP to offer candidates in south of the border so we can get an actual opposition.

You want a nationalist party from another country to represent you? Some of you have gone off the deep end.

 

[autumnleaf]

What's with these posts, did people really want Labour to defy the referendum result and vote against triggering article 50?

The referendum result does not give the Government carte blanche to do whatever it likes, the opposition should keep them honest and make sure whatever deal they get for Brexit is the best for the people. We are leaving the single market and Labour are simply bending over.

And the referendum result was never binding and it was incredibly close which no one seems to want to point out.

 

[Abelard]

What's with these posts, did people really want Labour to defy the referendum result and vote against triggering article 50?

Shitting on Labour and Jeremy Corbyn is the k00l tang.

Not that the party has any other viable candidates for leadership. Owen Smith had the charisma of a chair and any of the neoliberal candidates.... well they would getting their asses handed to them Clinton style.

 

[openrob]

http://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-to-order-mps-to-vote-to-trigger-article-50-10734496



Labour is such an effective opposition /s

Opoosition to what?
The vote of the british public?

Wait...Was Brexit a Labuor vs vTorie thing, or did MP's (and people) have differing views accross the parties??

 

[PJV3]

What's with these posts, did people really want Labour to defy the referendum result and vote against triggering article 50?

It's the 3 line whip that has got under a lot of people's skin, he could allow flexibility for conscience etc.

All that matters is that article 50 is allowed to happen and it wouldn't need labour pretending they are a eurosceptic party to do it.

 

[autumnleaf]

Opoosition to what?
The vote of the british public?

Wait...Was Brexit a Labuor vs vTorie thing, or did MP's (and people) have differing views accross the parties??

The public did not vote to leave the single market.

 

[Joni]

By then it's too late though. We're stuck with the tories for 4 more years and we're likely going to be stuck out of the EU poor as hell for the next 30 years.

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

It could always be that the EU is nice and let's countries back in for a price.

 

[Xando]

The public did not vote to leave the single market.

The public is dumb enough to vote and agree with everything the tories and the daily mail tell them

See:

 

[Protome]

The three big parties are going to be: Tories, UKIP & Lib Dems at the next GE isn't it?

Tories, Lib Dem and SNP is more likely. UKIP voters largely will go back to Conservative now that they've gotten what they wanted.
But even then, I don't see the Lib Dems clawing back enough seats to even oust the SNP.

The public did not vote to leave the single market.

What did they vote for? As nice as it was to believe there would be a better outcome to this, the public voted to leave the EU and with it all its benefits. They knew fine well what that would entail, but at least it means we can clamp down on immigrants now. Yay.

 

[FunkyMonk]

Shitting on Labour and Jeremy Corbyn is the k00l tang.

Not that the party has any other viable candidates for leadership. Owen Smith had the charisma of a chair and any of the neoliberal candidates.... well they would getting their asses handed to them Clinton style.

Whereas under Corbyn labour are heading for a Foot style beating, that's much better...

 

[whyamihere]

Shitting on Labour and Jeremy Corbyn is the k00l tang.

Not that the party has any other viable candidates for leadership. Owen Smith had the charisma of a chair and any of the neoliberal candidates.... well they would getting their asses handed to them Clinton style.

"asses handed to them Clinton style" would actually be winning by 2% and be a huge improvement on where Corbyn is polling.