Support NeoGAF

[Beer Monkey]

He didn't even talk about the audio being off and laggy.

 

[Skittzo0413]

When they orderd more units then they got like Target in the video. It's sounds like they knew. Jim's Target isn't the only place I've heard stories like that from, so I assume it's happening to everyone.

When do they typically place those orders though?

In this thread people have detailed how poorly set up Nintendo's supply chain is- if these orders were placed, say, less than a month before launch then there could simply have been no way for Nintendo to fulfill all of those orders if they had produced far less than what was requested at the time.

Again, I'll admit I don't know when that typically happens though. So it would be nice to see the timeline of that.

 

[MisterHero]

Do people think taking preorders would have made the scalper situation better or worse?

It would be better if there wasn't a limit on preorders, everyone who wanted one could get one

And then they break records with Pokemon preorders

 

[IronicSonic]

What if they release a couple more shipments here and there over the next couple of months, then stop until NES Classic 2 is released next holiday? Or two holidays from now?

That's where the buzz comes into play. Again, Nike and Adidas sell their biggest releases of the year that way. Of course you have your Pokemon (common adidas or Nike) that is stocked normally and makes you a boat load of money. But the NES Classic (hyped Air Jordan shoe)? Not everyone who wants one is gonna get one. Better luck next time they drop in 6 months.

Nintendo's brands are strong enough that they can pull something like that. Kinda like the Disney vault on crack.

So manufactured scarcity is more a brand recognition trick more than a profit maneuver? I can get behind it, because they make no profit no selling consoles

 

[Anth0ny]

Yeah I get it for sure, i see how it could be true, problem is i dont see how thats logical or more likely to be true than them just not meeting demand for regular reasons, especially since its nintendo. I mean are they doomed and headed for third party or are they doing so well they should be meeting demand and projecting high sales? Its actually neither... And thats not to mention the fact that nintendo has literally always been a conservative company in just about every way possible and so it fits exactly with everything we know about them. Its not something that needs a conspiracy to explain.

Yes you're probably right, I just have a hard time believing that a multi billion dollar company could mis read the market this badly without it being intentional. Or at least somewhat intentional.

There's conservative, and then there's "you don't get one unless you got lucky during a 30 second span the moment they went up on amazon". That's beyond conservative.

 

[Corronchilejano]

This to me is the epitome of manchild behavior because at the end of day, the nintendo NES classic it's just a fucking toy.

Did you forget you're in a video gaming forum all of a sudden? That the median age of videogamers is like 36?

You can call it whatever you want. People over the age of 18 want to buy it.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

This to me is the epitome of manchild behavior because at the end of day, the nintendo NES classic it's just a fucking toy.

You've got to be kidding me.

 

[fernoca]

As always, whenever you don't agree wth someone: call him a fanboy.

Agree that Nintendo sucks for not supplying more, but agree also that saying "artificial scarcity" as if Nintendo sabotaged themselves by not only supplying less stock, but also making less... fails all kinds of logic.

You produce a lot and hold inventory to create demand. You don't produce a few, sell everything and then produce more while stock is not out there.

 

[Seiru]

Video says it all. Any anger you have at scalpers and $250 price tags...it should be aimed squarely at Nintendo.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Hey, this makes people forget the absolutely negligent hardware design that's barely playable in most modern TV setups. So their plan is probably working on several levels.

 

[Noi]

Here's an excerpt from Game Over by David Sheff:

"Long before any talk about movies was in the offices of Nintendo, Peter Main had told Arakawa that he felt it wise to market video games like movies- released cautiously, rationed so that demand outpaced availability and then withdrawn from circulation as soon as interest began to wane. This rationing tactic, treating games like priceless objects worked. After all the hype about a new game took hold, kids dragged their parents to stores, but outlets couldn't keep the games in stock. The rush to get games such as Super Mario Brothers 3 or Link the sequel to The Legend of Zelda caused near riots of excited game buying
The competition to acquire games rivaled that for tickets to Michael Jackson's last concert tour. Ultimately more product was sold. A kid who was absolutely dying to get Link would arrive at a store, only to find it sold out. Maybe he would try a few other stores without success but then he would buy another Nintendo game, so his parents would end up paying $30 $40 or $50 for a second or third choice. Then a week or month later, a new supply of Link would come in. The kid wanted Link more than ever then, and unless his were the most iron-willed of parents, they would succumb. Even kids whose parents held out still managed to get games, in a survey what kids in Sandwch Illinois bought with their allowances and other money they earned, the near unanimous choice was Nintendo games.
The editor of one toy industry journal noted that "Nintendo has become a name like Disney or McDonald's. They've done it by doling out games like Godiva chocolates." In 1988, Fortune observed that "so far the strategy looks like a winner.""


While 1989 isn't 100% analogous to today, nothing has really changed. Nintendo still knows how to leverage scarcity to their advantage when it comes to negotiating payment terms, shelf space, promotions, everything. And nobody here shouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo flex its muscle with the NES classic for the upcoming Switch launch. They absolutely will do it, as they have in the past, and the Switch carries built in demand of its own.

Quoting so this doesn't get lost. Artificial scarcity is a technique used by Nintendo for a long time now, it isn't some new thing they've started doing post-Wii.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Hey, this makes people forget the absolutely negligent hardware design that's barely playable in most modern TV setups. So their plan is probably working on several levels.

Wait what?

I need to google this!

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

Haven't watched the video yet, but I already agree with the premise. It's infuriating how Nintendo handles supply of their products. I'm really hoping I end up with a Switch at launch, but with this shit being their strategy, that may not happen unless I pay a scalper $600 for it.

 

[Spieler Eins]

Wait what?

I need to google this!

I'm talking about the fact that most reviews of this thing start with people saying that they can't deal with the cable length.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

As always, whenever you don't agree wth someone: call him a fanboy.

Agree that Nintendo sucks for not supplying more, but agree also that saying "artificial scarcity" as if Nintendo sabotaged themselves by not only supplying less stock, but also making less... fails all kinds of logic.

You produce a lot and hold inventory to create demand. You don't produce a few, sell everything and then produce more while stock is not out there.

Not true. This actually goes against the very thing companies are attempting to do these days, which is to limit inventory to a bare minimum, and that includes parts and components that are used to build the product. Nintendo orders parts and components to assemble their products as needed.

Re-reading the bolded in your post... it I'm reading that right, that's exactly what manufacturing companies, including Nintendo, does.

 

[Anth0ny]

So manufactured scarcity is more a brand recognition trick more than a profit maneuver? I can get behind it, because they make no profit no selling consoles

Correct, it's about long term gain and the sneaker and clothing companies pull it off masterfully.

Nintendo could just flood the market with these things in a month or two. Everyone who wants one gets one, and they become a fixture at the local Best Buy or wal mart.

In this scenario, there's about zero excitement for a NES Classic 2. Even a SNES Classic loses some of that luster, I think.

Or.... they could not release more. And suddenly Nintendo becomes that brand you associate with shit that sells out forever if I don't act quick and buy that shit. NO TIME TO THINK, JUST BUY! Every holiday the new ____ Classic is the #1 most wanted toy of the holiday because it's hard to find.

I think if anyone would try to pull some crazy shit like that, it's Nintendo.

 

[fernoca]

Not true. This actually goes against the very thing companies are avoiding. Nintendo, like most every other company, will hold only a bare minimum of inventory, and that includes parts and components that are used to build the product. Nintendo orders parts and components to assemble their products as needed.

I mentioned that, around the idea that that's what they're doing.
As if they're holding inventory on purpose to create demand. If that was the case, stores would be getting plenty every week; even more on Black Friday or even Cyber Monday.

 

[vg260]

Quoting so this doesn't get lost. Artificial scarcity is a technique used by Nintendo for a long time now, it isn't some new thing they've started doing post-Wii.

Yup, and this low-cost novelty item is the perfect scenario for that tactic.

 

[GloveSlap]

Hey, this makes people forget the absolutely negligent hardware design that's barely playable in most modern TV setups. So their plan is probably working on several levels.

There definitely is evidence for the total incompetence angle in the NES box itself.

 

[Kthulhu]

I'm talking about the fact that most reviews of this thing start with people saying that they can't deal with the cable length.

Also a travesty. I can't think of a good reason to make the cable 3ft long.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I mentioned that, around the idea that that's what they're doing.
As if they're holding inventory on purpose to create demand. If that was the case, stores would be getting plenty every week; even more on Black Friday or even Cyber Monday.

Ah, now I get you. Right, they aren't holding inventory, they don't have shit. They're frantically calling their suppliers to get the parts and components they need to assemble products to get more out there. Problem is, that's not how a company the size of Nintendo should operate. They do, because it's cheaper and it makes their shareholders happy and their executives richer. Meanwhile, check ebay.

 

[Man0warr]

Also a travesty. I can't think of a good reason to make the cable 3ft long.

Because you'd have to move the Reset/Save button from the console to the controller, then it would no longer be an NES controller.

They expected you to play close to the console, I think, instead of getting up just to switch games/save states.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I'm talking about the fact that most reviews of this thing start with people saying that they can't deal with the cable length.

Oh right, yea that was a poor design choice.

Especially considering how we've become accustomed to wireless technology

 

[Professor Beef]

Correct, it's about long term gain and the sneaker and clothing companies pull it off masterfully.

Nintendo could just flood the market with these things in a month or two. Everyone who wants one gets one, and they become a fixture at the local Best Buy or wal mart.

In this scenario, there's about zero excitement for a NES Classic 2. Even a SNES Classic loses some of that luster, I think.

Or.... they could not release more. And suddenly Nintendo becomes that brand you associate with shit that sells out forever if I don't act quick and buy that shit. NO TIME TO THINK, JUST BUY! Every holiday the new ____ Classic is the #1 most wanted toy of the holiday because it's hard to find.

I think if anyone would try to pull some crazy shit like that, it's Nintendo.

At least you can admit that it's crazy. ;P

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Correct, it's about long term gain and the sneaker and clothing companies pull it off masterfully.

Nintendo could just flood the market with these things in a month or two. Everyone who wants one gets one, and they become a fixture at the local Best Buy or wal mart.

In this scenario, there's about zero excitement for a NES Classic 2. Even a SNES Classic loses some of that luster, I think.

Or.... they could not release more. And suddenly Nintendo becomes that brand you associate with shit that sells out forever if I don't act quick and buy that shit. NO TIME TO THINK, JUST BUY! Every holiday the new ____ Classic is the #1 most wanted toy of the holiday because it's hard to find.

I think if anyone would try to pull some crazy shit like that, it's Nintendo.

Cry wolf long enough and we know how it will end for them in the long run.

 

[Drensch]

The cord is short. Legit complaint.
You can't get one, and they severely underestimated demand. Legit complaint.
Limited edition game or hardware is limited? Not a legit complaint.

Global conspiracy by Nintendo to not sell product and not make money for the sake of "buzz", and a lot of negative buzz? Not legitimate and nonsensical.

 

[ScientificPizza]

The cord is short. Legit complaint.
You can't get one, and they severely underestimated demand. Legit complaint.
Limited edition game or hardware is limited? Not a legit complaint.

Global conspiracy by Nintendo to not sell product and not make money for the sake of "buzz", and a lot of negative buzz? Not legitimate and nonsensical.

^^^

Nintendo have nothing to gain having a scarce product because they aren't making money on the resell value.

Look at how the Wii launched and then how many Wiis were eventually produced. This is just how Nintendo production works.

 

[Lupin the Third]

When do they typically place those orders though?

In this thread people have detailed how poorly set up Nintendo's supply chain is- if these orders were placed, say, less than a month before launch then there could simply have been no way for Nintendo to fulfill all of those orders if they had produced far less than what was requested at the time.

Again, I'll admit I don't know when that typically happens though. So it would be nice to see the timeline of that.

Nintendo demanded order quantities from retailers shortly after they were announced, in like July or August. There is no way Fred Meyer, for example, only ordered 3 units per store. Or Walmart 6-12 per store. Can you imagine Walmart ordering only 12 units of a $60 major new release?

 

[Kthulhu]

Because you'd have to move the Reset/Save button from the console to the controller, then it would no longer be an NES controller.

They expected you to play close to the console, I think, instead of getting up just to switch games/save states.

I'd rather stand up to do it and have a long cable TBH. Hopefully they'll make a new controller with a longer cable.

 

[Interficium]

It isn't a gut feeling. This is a pattern of which we can draw one of two conclusions from.

Correlation is not causation.

 

[7roject28]

I didn't think there was that much demand for the NES Classic. I remember people complaining about the $60 price. Then there's emulators and VC. Didn't think people would buy those games again and again. But I'm scared for Switch now. Gotta go get a preorder asap.

 

[Chastten]

I really wonder why the situation is so different in the States compared to how it is here. As a Dutchie, the only time in the past 5 years where I've had issues getting my hands on something from Nintendo was the Fire Emblem Fates SE, and even so, I ended up pre-ordering that from an English site, no biggie.

The NES mini was available for pre-order for nearly a month or so without any issues and I've managed to get every LE/SE/amiibo bundle that I want without any hassle.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

When you say gamestop and amazon "knew" itd sell great, what are you talking about? They had projections of sales?

All companies do sales projections before buying products to resell. How did you think they do it?

 

[BocoDragon]

No NES Classic on store shelves:

"Hahaha fuck you Nintendo you dummies"

A glut of Animal Crossing amiibo collecting dust on store shelves:

"Hahaha fuck you Nintendo you dummies"

I think it's really easy to say "make more" if you have zero concern for what happens when items are over shipped.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Quoting so this doesn't get lost. Artificial scarcity is a technique used by Nintendo for a long time now, it isn't some new thing they've started doing post-Wii.

Even if true, they aren't in a market where that would work anymore. If they can't deliver, people will buy something different. Simple as that.

 

[TunaLover]

It's Nintendo being conservative as always. Nothing to see

They undership games too, heck they even release Fatal Frame in digital form because they were afraid about a retail release. It has nothing to do with artificial supply.

 

[truly101]

Even if true, they aren't in a market where that would work anymore. If they can't deliver, people will buy something different. Simple as that.

Whats the viable alternative to the NES Classic? For the average consumer that wants one, there isn't one.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Man. There's a lot of suckers in here. They keep saying manufactured scarcity isn't real when it's been proven to be a genuine marketing tactic AND no one is giving a reason for lack of pre orders. Don't let your love for Nintendo make you a sucker

Pretty much. I can't believe people are denying that nintendo does this. I thought it was common knowledge.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Because you'd have to move the Reset/Save button from the console to the controller, then it would no longer be an NES controller.

They expected you to play close to the console, I think, instead of getting up just to switch games/save states.

Those of us who have Everdrives for our real NES consoles use special button combinations to access save states. They could have done the same to access the menu.

 

[Cheerilee]

The cord is short. Legit complaint.
You can't get one, and they severely underestimated demand. Legit complaint.
Limited edition game or hardware is limited? Not a legit complaint.

Global conspiracy by Nintendo to not sell product and not make money for the sake of "buzz", and a lot of negative buzz? Not legitimate and nonsensical.

Here's an easy theoretical scenario.

You design your toy. You buy your TV and magazine advertisements. You do your market research (which includes visiting retailers and asking them how many units they will commit to buy). You conclude that you're going to sell one million units.

You make half a million units instead. You watch your customers fight each other over your product. Other people see the fight. They conclude that your toy must be a winner, if people are that excited over it.

One week later, you release half a million units in "batch two". The second half of your market arrives to buy the product. You lose nothing. But the free advertisement from the earlier battle causes new customers to show up. Now there's a second battle over your product, and the real winner is you, because you sold more than your predicted one million units by deliberately selling less.


Toymakers figured this shit out in the 1980's, and have been trying to get this technique working to their advantage every year since then. There's a balancing act involved in knowing how much frenzy you can create and how long you can sustain it, but that's what these marketing guys live for. This is their art.

And as Howard Lincoln said, the frenzy can be directed towards other strategic victories. The image of people crawling over each other to buy miniature NES's will only help Nintendo in a few months when they go to remind the general public that Nintendo has a new console.

 

[KingSnake]

And as Howard Lincoln said, the frenzy can be directed towards other strategic victories. The image of people crawling over each other to buy miniature NES's will only help Nintendo in a few months when they go to remind the general public that Nintendo has a new console.

And everybody will now expect shortages so they will try to make sure they get one as soon as possible.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Whats the viable alternative to the NES Classic? For the average consumer that wants one, there isn't one.

Literally a 3DS or any Nintendo Console since the Wii?

 

[jadedm17]

Nintendo could be doing better, but we could also not be buying $200 NES Classic off resellers; They didn't do you a service, they took a machine from someone who wanted it and unloaded it at 400% cost.

 

[truly101]

Here's an easy theoretical scenario.

You design your toy. You buy your TV and magazine advertisements. You do your market research (which includes visiting retailers and asking them how many units they will commit to buy). You conclude that you're going to sell one million units.

You make half a million units instead. You watch your customers fight each other over your product. Other people see the fight. They conclude that your toy must be a winner, if people are that excited over it.

One week later, you release half a million units in "batch two". The second half of your market arrives to buy the product. You lose nothing. But the free advertisement from the earlier battle causes new customers to show up. Now there's a second battle over your product, and the real winner is you, because you sold more than your predicted one million units by deliberately selling less.


Toymakers figured this shit out in the 1980's, and have been trying to get this technique working to their advantage every year since then. There's a balancing act involved in knowing how much frenzy you can create and how long you can sustain it, but that's what these marketing guys live for. This is their art.

And as Howard Lincoln said, the frenzy can be directed towards other strategic victories. The image of people crawling over each other to buy miniature NES's will only help Nintendo in a few months when they go to remind the general public that Nintendo has a new console.

100% all of this. I know there is this weird belief that Nintendo is run by happiness and pure love of video games and Santa Claus, but they have always been a shrewd company that pushes its advantage whenever it has one. This side of the company didn't magically disappear when Yamauchi passed away a few years ago. Having some failures along the way like the Wii U didn't make it disappear. They absolutely know what they are doing.

Literally a 3DS or any Nintendo Console since the Wii?

So....they buy other Nintendo products? And what was your point again?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Here's an excerpt from Game Over by David Sheff:

"Long before any talk about movies was in the offices of Nintendo, Peter Main had told Arakawa that he felt it wise to market video games like movies- released cautiously, rationed so that demand outpaced availability and then withdrawn from circulation as soon as interest began to wane. This rationing tactic, treating games like priceless objects worked. After all the hype about a new game took hold, kids dragged their parents to stores, but outlets couldn't keep the games in stock. The rush to get games such as Super Mario Brothers 3 or Link the sequel to The Legend of Zelda caused near riots of excited game buying
The competition to acquire games rivaled that for tickets to Michael Jackson's last concert tour. Ultimately more product was sold. A kid who was absolutely dying to get Link would arrive at a store, only to find it sold out. Maybe he would try a few other stores without success but then he would buy another Nintendo game, so his parents would end up paying $30 $40 or $50 for a second or third choice. Then a week or month later, a new supply of Link would come in. The kid wanted Link more than ever then, and unless his were the most iron-willed of parents, they would succumb. Even kids whose parents held out still managed to get games, in a survey what kids in Sandwch Illinois bought with their allowances and other money they earned, the near unanimous choice was Nintendo games.
The editor of one toy industry journal noted that "Nintendo has become a name like Disney or McDonald's. They've done it by doling out games like Godiva chocolates." In 1988, Fortune observed that "so far the strategy looks like a winner.""


While 1989 isn't 100% analogous to today, nothing has really changed. Nintendo still knows how to leverage scarcity to their advantage when it comes to negotiating payment terms, shelf space, promotions, everything. And nobody here shouldn't be surprised to see Nintendo flex its muscle with the NES classic for the upcoming Switch launch. They absolutely will do it, as they have in the past, and the Switch carries built in demand of its own.

This is the only evidence brought up in this thread which indicates that part of the intention behind Nintendo's past shortages is to drive up demand, so thank you for that. You'll notice though that the other side of this strategy is that they wind up spending less on production, which is what I've been saying is a more logical reason for these shortages- a conservative company who wants to save as much money as possible wherever they can, so overproducing is one of the worst things they can do; see the Wii U.

But a lot of people in this thread seem to be suggesting that the "artificial scarcity" is Nintendo producing an adequate amount of units but holding onto a large percentage of them at first while watching demand rise due to the low supply. That's nonsense- they would need to rent out warehouse space to store all these extra units which costs them even more money, not to mention all of the lost sales.

But if that's not everyone's definition of artificial scarcity then I apologize.

Whats the viable alternative to the NES Classic? For the average consumer that wants one, there isn't one.

There are dozens of knock-off plug and play consoles all over the place. I see them sitting in Urban Outfitter for example (blame my wife) and they cost ~$40 for a little box that plays 300 classic games, or something like that. I really don't get why the demand for this thing is so high... you can get all of these games on one of the 100 million Wiis out there if you really don't want to emulate.

 

[Izayoi]

F U C K N O A
U
C
K

N
O
A

Been trying since last Thursday to track down ONE SINGLE N3DS and so far my only luck is scalpers selling at just under the price of a retail XL.

What a goddamn joke. Also, fuck scalpers. Right up there with personal injury lawyers, anti-vaxxers, and murders on the "Human Scum" scale.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

I'm just really nervous that they don't take Switch pre-orders for some reason. They didn't take NES Classic Mini preorders, and while I didn't mind standing outside a Gamestop to get one for a couple of hours, I really just want to give Fry's Electronics my money in January and be sure that I can pick a Switch up when it comes out.

 

[Palmer27]

he doesn't mince words huh

Fucking burst out laughing at that title. Jim Sterling Son is the only corner of gamer-outrage that I adore!

 

[Corleth the Fey]

Literally a 3DS or any Nintendo Console since the Wii?

Why would Nintendo want to drive consumers toward their more expensive and more profitable products? I dunno, but I think it's on the tip of my tongue.

 

[truly101]

There are dozens of knock-off plug and play consoles all over the place. I see them sitting in Urban Outfitter for example (blame my wife) and they cost ~$40 for a little box that plays 300 classic games, or something like that. I really don't get why the demand for this thing is so high... you can get all of these games on one of the 100 million Wiis out there if you really don't want to emulate.

Those Chinese knock offs have been around for years, and their quality has been suspect,not to mention they are illegal. This is the first device of that type that isn't just licensed by Nintendo, its made by them. The form factor has a lot going for it and the plug and play capability means not having to turn on the dusty Wii, going to the Nintendo Online Store and buying the virtual console version of said game (which, 30 games at $5 a game is not as good a deal as the NES Classic), it means taking it out of the box, plugging it in and getting a reasonable facsimile of what they remember playing 30 years ago. And there are a lot of people that want THAT experience as evident by the demand for the product.

EDIT: And to answer your original question, no, Nintendo is not sitting on a warehouse of these things. They ordered far less than the demand warranted and many, like me, believe they did it for more than just being conservative (which they are).