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John McCain Official Statement: "I Will Vote No on Graham Cassidy Health Care Bill"

This is from a webinar given by HHS today:

https://twitter.com/philgalewitz/status/911308749612158976

DKWbrDZXcAA74Te.jpg


Curious time for an outage being that its during the 6 week enrollment period for Obamacare. That can't be on purpose, right? *he asked sarcastically*
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I don't know why y'all are so confident. Easily could still pass with someone else flipping.

It could, but it's not just about one vote anymore. mcCain's flip is basically a tacit admission that it's a shit bill. It gives the "maybes" an out. It gives the "dos" backup and it changes the entire dialog from, "GOP salvages victory from jaws of defeat" to "GOP keeps trying to make people eat feces"
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Maybe you should be the one to read it again. He said he would CONSIDER SUPPORTING, not that he'd support it. He is saying that he's not even considering supporting it at this point due to the lack of debate.
And it's really him saying, 'I just got elected. I'm looking at death, let alone no election for 6 years.'

I'll still give him credit because blindly following Trump would be easier.

Trump fucked up. Shouldn't have shitted on him for being a pow.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Given his justification for shooting it down last time, I'm not really sure how he could have supported it this time, given that they're still just trying to ram it through without following normal process.

I don't know that I buy that as the real reason John was against this, but it all lines up.

8 more days until we don't have to stress about healthcare quite so badly for at least a while. Fingers tightly crossed we can make it through the end of the month.
The real reasons are the cuts to the Medicaid expansion. Arizona would lose 11 billion by 2026.

Senate Republicans' latest plan to overhaul the U.S. health care system ends with a massive shift of federal money from states that expanded Medicaid — and are largely dominated by Democrats — to those that refused to expand.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...take-funds-from-states-that-expanded-medicaid
 

kirblar

Member
This is from a webinar given by HHS today:

https://twitter.com/philgalewitz/status/911308749612158976

DKWbrDZXcAA74Te.jpg


Curious time for an outage being that its during the 6 week enrollment period for Obamacare. That can't be on purpose, right? *he asked sarcastically*
This is the timeframe when I see online banking brought down for maitenance for banks normally. I don't think it's malicious, it makes sense w/ usage patterns where you want to disrupt the fewest people possible.
 

LogicAirForce

Neo Member
Homonyms are hard. I recently used principal when I meant principle.

Or do I mean homophones?

Grammar is hard.

homophone. homophones are words that are spelled differently or mean different things but sound the same.

what comes out of phones? sound
thats how I remember.

regarding McCain, I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Well i'm glad someone in the GOP has some sense about this proposal. Not that it means much in the long run as we're back were we started.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Why would he make a show of coming out against the bill only to vote for it?

If mccain was a no on the last bill, it makes sense that he's a no here too

You dont think politicians have voted against bills and made grand standing appeals only to vote for bills later on due to pressure or vise versa?

Mccain has had TONS of horrible views and voting positions, dont put it past any of these people to do that
 

Nerokis

Member
Yeah that line pisses me off. They only "rammed it through" after like, over a year of debates and normal order. The only reason they HAD to "ram it through" is because Republicans were being partisan shitbags.

Republicans are never going to let go of that talking point, even though it has become tremendously hypocritical (it was always at least somewhat hypocritical). I understand it annoying people, because at this point that thing about being massive hypocrites who are doing something 100x worse has recontextualized it, but actually, it isn't totally unfounded. No Republican liked Obamacare, that's true, but it also caused a great deal of discontent among the public, culminating in Scott Brown taking Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. At that point, there was a lot of self-questioning among Democrats, and no one was sure what the right step forward was. What Obama did, what Democrats in Congress did to make sure something could pass in this new situation, somewhat resembled "ramming through" Obamacare. Here's a tidbit into the mentality at the time, from a McClatchy article:

President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats plan to pass major health care legislation using a controversial procedural device called "reconciliation."

Republicans are protesting about it, and some Democrats are uneasy, too. Here's how the process would work:

Q: Why are Democrats doing this?

A: Because it usually takes 60 votes to cut off debate in the Senate. Democrats now control 59 of the 100 seats, and Republicans are united in opposing the health care legislation, so it would be difficult for Democrats to get 60 votes.

And another, from the NYT:

Scott Brown, a little-known Republican state senator, rode an old pickup truck and a growing sense of unease among independent voters to an extraordinary upset Tuesday night when he was elected to fill the Senate seat that was long held by Edward M. Kennedy in the overwhelmingly Democratic state of Massachusetts.

. . .

The election left Democrats in Congress scrambling to salvage a bill overhauling the nation’s health care system, which the late Mr. Kennedy had called “the cause of my life.” Mr. Brown has vowed to oppose the bill, and once he takes office the Democrats will no longer control the 60 votes in the Senate needed to overcome filibusters.

There were immediate signs that the bill had become imperiled. House members indicated they would not quickly pass the bill the Senate approved last month.

The decision to push through all those obstacles, to Republicans, looked like "ramming through" the bill. The thing is, "ramming through" a good bill isn't necessarily a bad thing. In this case, it reflected the conviction of Obama and the Democrats he lead to decisively move the country forward on an incredibly important issue. They did so even though there was a good chance it would cost them down the line (and it did, with a lot of Democrats who voted for the bill losing in the 2010 midterm elections), and even though it was setting up Obamacare for a much less smooth implementation than it otherwise could have had in a more beautiful world.

Actually, it's the latter thing that McCain emphasizes in his statement. Whether you call it "ramming through" or something else, there's certainly a lesson to be learned from the aftermath of how Obamacare was accomplished, and McCain seems to be hoping that his fellow Republicans take something away from it.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
You dont think politicians have voted against bills and made grand standing appeals only to vote for bills later on due to pressure or vise versa?

I can't remember a Senator ever being this firmly against a bill publicly then changing his mind.

If there was any chance that McCain would vote yes, he wouldn't put out the statement.

And they have especially little leverage to make McCain change his mind. He will probably die before his his seat is up for reelection in 2022.
 
Republicans are never going to let go of that talking point, even though it has become tremendously hypocritical (it was always at least somewhat hypocritical). I understand it annoying people, because at this point that thing about being massive hypocrites who are doing something 100x worse has recontextualized it, but actually, it isn't totally unfounded. No Republican liked Obamacare, that's true, but it also caused a great deal of discontent among the public, culminating in Scott Brown taking Ted Kennedy's Senate seat. At that point, there was a lot of self-questioning among Democrats, and no one was sure what the right step forward was. What Obama did, what Democrats in Congress did to make sure something could pass in this new situation, somewhat resembled "ramming through" Obamacare. Here's a tidbit into the mentality at the time, from a McClatchy article:



And another, from the NYT:



The decision to push through all those obstacles, to Republicans, looked like "ramming through" the bill. The thing is, "ramming through" a good bill isn't necessarily a bad thing. In this case, it reflected the conviction of Obama and the Democrats he lead to decisively move the country forward on an incredibly important issue. They did so even though there was a good chance it would cost them down the line (and it did, with a lot of Democrats who voted for the bill losing in the 2010 midterm elections), and even though it was setting up Obamacare for a much less smooth implementation than it otherwise could have had in a more beautiful world.

Actually, it's the latter thing that McCain emphasizes in his statement. Whether you call it "ramming through" or something else, there's certainly a lesson to be learned from the aftermath of how Obamacare was accomplished, and McCain seems to be hoping that his fellow Republicans take something away from it.
Keep in mind that Affordable Care Act was NOT passed under budget reconciliation. The bill itself passed with 60 votes in th Senate along party lines. You can see the vote breakdown here:

https://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/roll-call-votes/s396-111.2009

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 was passed after that with a simple majority vote using the reconciliation rules. It amended the ACA with higher tax subsidies, changing how Medicaid was paid out in the short term and eliminating stuff like Ben Nelson's "Cornhusker Kickback". Along with a slew of student loan reforms.
 

BigDug13

Member
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/911310034163965953

Full @LindseyGrahamSC statement on McCain opposing his health care bill. Next steps unclear.

I love how they claim they're trying to "fix the disaster" that is Obamacare without actually doing the FAR EASIER thing than repeal and FIX THE DISASTER that was created by their unwillingness to continue to evolve the "barebones and in great need of constant legislative maintenance" bill that the ACA was. We wouldn't be in this situation if they didn't spend the last 6 years of Obama's presidency doing nothing other than putting up failed attempt after failed attempt at passing straight "repeal Ocare" bills with no actual plan to replace it.

Also if they think the states have the best ideas moving forward, why are they gutting the money going to states? Because they're full of shit.

Sure governors, make your decisions with this tiny pot of money. Why aren't the American taxpayers being given a tax break equal to the amount of the cuts? Oh wait, they are, just in the top bracket.
 
I love how they claim they're trying to "fix the disaster" that is Obamacare without actually doing the FAR EASIER thing than repeal and FIX THE DISASTER that was created by their unwillingness to continue to evolve the "barebones and in great need of constant legislative maintenance" bill that the ACA was. We wouldn't be in this situation if they didn't spend the last 6 years of Obama's presidency doing nothing other than putting up failed attempt after failed attempt at passing straight "repeal Ocare" bills with no actual plan to replace it.
Or actively working to hobble it all together.
 

old

Member
I have a sinking feeling this one passes. They'll bribe Alaska and Maine with deals that can't be refused.
 

Swass

Member
Read the third paragraph of his statement again.
rCGKk78.jpg


McCain ain't shit

Sure he's voting no, but it's not because the bill is horrible: he agrees with the bill.

He's saying that to appease his base, however he knows had this gone through the proper channels he outlined, this bill would not exist in it's current state.
 

Con_Smith

Banned
I'm concerned that many both sides purists will sit at home and allow Republicans to gain more power. Because they're idiots who don't understand politics.

Fucking truth.

Dems don't have any real issues besides all the factions doing slight double speak. Hard to stay as unified as pubs on a message when your party actually, you know, has voices differing on progress instead of pandering to fuck up the masses.
 

BigDug13

Member
He's saying that to appease his base, however he knows had this gone through the proper channels he outlined, this bill would not exist in it's current state.

My hope is that he recognizes how fucked this process is that they're trying to do. Obamacare went through SO many more bipartisan compromises while the creators of these bills are doing everything they can to make sure Democrats get zero say in anything involving the bill. It's the epitome of why we have checks and balances. It's to stop shit like this where one party gets into power and cuts out the other side and does their own thing. I'm extremely happy that McCain at least "gets it" enough to make sure they don't push through bullshit bills like this with zero democratic involvement.

Still think he would have been a superior year 2000 president than W. (though I definitely wanted him to lose in 2008 and actually wanted Gore in 2000, but McCain would have been better than W. I still remember early in my training watching the USS Forrestal fire and seeing him jump off the nose of his F-4.)
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
I'm concerned that many both sides purists will sit at home and allow Republicans to gain more power. Because they're idiots who don't understand politics.

is "both sides purists" the new insult for people who have skepticism for the two party system and how it currently operates? I guess that's one way to get them to vote

Fucking truth.

Dems don't have any real issues.

If you actually think dems have NO issues whatsoever, that's the problem right there. The unwillingness to ever do any soul searching.

The party is split into two completely different pieces and its not going to be fixed by claiming nothing is wrong or its the voters fault that people are disaffected.
 

Xe4

Banned
I have a sinking feeling this one passes. They'll bribe Alaska and Maine with deals that can't be refused.
I'll say this: we're a lot further away from this bill passing than the "soft repeal" was. Given McCain has already come out against this, hopefully more will be willing to oppose it. Collins is almost never going to vote for this. Voters in Maine would crucify her at the polls. And it will be difficult to get Murkowski and Paul both on board. You'd have to loosen the repeal of Obamacare to get Murkowski, but increase the repeal to get Paul. Hellova tight rope, and I don't see either McConnell or Trump being able to walk it.

We'll see, but the important thing to do is stay vigilant and call your senators, especially if you live in a red state.
 

Linkura

Member
I have a sinking feeling this one passes. They'll bribe Alaska and Maine with deals that can't be refused.

Hahaha, no. Especially not Collins. This is the one thing she has a had a backbone on. I'll give her that.

Also Republicans have been shitting on Murkowski for far too long for her to give a shit anymore about appeasing them.
 

Nerokis

Member
Keep in mind that Affordable Care Act was NOT passed under budget reconciliation. The bill itself passed with 60 votes in th Senate along party lines. You can see the vote breakdown here:

https://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/roll-call-votes/s396-111.2009

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 was passed after that with a simple majority vote using the reconciliation rules. It amended the ACA with higher tax subsidies, changing how Medicaid was paid out in the short term and eliminating stuff like Ben Nelson's "Cornhusker Kickback". Along with a slew of student loan reforms.

Correct. However, it was a significant piece of how Obamacare came together. How charitably you'd like to interpret the fact that the House passed the Senate's version of the ACA with assurance that a reconciliation bill would ultimately make it more favorable to them is up to you. Either way, latching onto relatively arcane legislative tactics in the face of remarkable electoral defeat understandably didn't sit well for some people. It took conviction and toughness, and in the eyes of the GOP, tone deafness to the expressed will of the public.

My point is this: the "rammed through" narrative will never die, partly because it has a kernel of truth to it, but it isn't an entirely negative thing anyway. It reflects the rough circumstances Obamacare was passed in, as well as the courage of the people who managed to make it happen despite those rough circumstances. For me, one of the most poignant stories coming out of Washington in recent years stems from the Democrats who voted for the ACA, and proceeded to get killed in the midterms. They pretty consistently say, "I don't regret it, and I feel like I made an important contribution," and it's a beautiful thing.
 

Con_Smith

Banned
is "both sides purists" the new insult for people who have skepticism for the two party system and how it currently operates? I guess that's one way to get them to vote



If you actually think dems have NO issues whatsoever, that's the problem right there. The unwillingness to ever do any soul searching.

The party is split into two completely different pieces and its not going to be fixed by claiming nothing is wrong or its the voters fault that people are disaffected.

I don't think they don't have problems. No organization or collective is perfect or should be shielded from criticism. I just don't place all the blame on stupid democrats because they atleast try to govern with some type of sense and respect for country.

They may be pussies when it comes to standing up to the lies being shifted their way or controlling the narrative but their wishy washy base is so quick to get mad and go home instead of understanding governance isn't an all or nothing sport. Bernie for damn sure ain't helping the collective caucuses by being a wild card and speaking out the side of his mouth because of his new found celebrity either.
 

Maxim726X

Member
Hahaha, no. Especially not Collins. This is the one thing she has a had a backbone on. I'll give her that.

Also Republicans have been shitting on Murkowski for far too long for her to give a shit anymore about appeasing them.

A little concerned about Murokowsi, particularly because even a small handout to her state could make an enormous difference in the lives of her constituency. I'd imagine they'd do anything to appease her, so this is not over yet. By any means.
 
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