Support NeoGAF

[Ferrio]

So it's okay to be vilely racist and spout fascist propaganda if you're doing it for the gainz..

Worked for Trump

 

[onadesertedisland]

....so he's an asshole, then.

What's that got to do with his right to speak?

Just to remind him and others that use free speech like this, it has consequences.

 

[AgeEighty]

By the way, even in a country with free speech, there's always been a standard by which we reject speech we deem to be destructive to the public at large, like crying "fire" in a crowded theater. It's not hypocritical to suppress hate speech, and there's a long standing US court record in support of this.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

....so he's an asshole, then.

What's that got to do with his right to speak?

Is harassing students and inciting violence a right?

 

[John Kowalski]

Milo has never worn a swastika or called for genocide. He is not a Nazi.

You're right, he's not a nazi. He's a neo nazi and a neo fascist.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Yeah, it's hard. Doing the right thing is hard. It always feels like a losing battle. Shortcuts are tempting. But it still needs to be done. I don't know what else to say.

No. It's actually pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and lecture people for protesting too loud. What's hard is being a brown person out in the streets right now wondering when you're going to get shot by a cop or deported out of the country.

 

[rakkadakka]

So add conman to the list? How do you nazis feel about being conned by a gay foreigner?

Wait why am I a Nazi again?

Or are we just throwing that term around like a pronoun at this point.

 

[mr teaspoon]

Is harassing students and inciting violence a right?

Is that what's happening?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Why is the argument the left needs to have patience with the right while the right literally legalizes sexism, racism and xenophobia? Rioting is bad but holy shit there is no way I can look at every single situation ever and condemn any acts of violence or reaistance with zero contextualizaton. How is your moral compass such that breaking a window is unforgivable but a militarized police force and a judicial system that literally weaponized the law to oppress people is w/e?

Violence isnt right but holy shit, sometimes I get it. And god fucking damn it, maybe some of you need to actually be oppressed so you can understand that not every act of violence is just about being a savage.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Wait why am I a Nazi again?

Or are we just throwing that term around like a pronoun at this point.

It is addressed towards his supporters.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Milo tries to get trans students bullied into committing suicide at colleges he goes to.

*shrug*

My only regret is he didn't go there and get caught in the middle of it.

 

[AoM]

By the way, even in a country with free speech, there's always been a standard by which we reject speech we deem to be destructive to the public at large, like crying "fire" in a crowded theater. It's not hypocritical to suppress hate speech, and there's a long standing US court record in support of this.

https://youtu.be/7oCmhZ-1gGc?t=2479

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Is that what's happening?

He sexually harassed a trans student and forced her to leave her school.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Is that what's happening?

His only purpose is to go on stage, say shit that would start a fight anywhere, hide behind "free speech" to not get his ass kicked, and attack innocent people. If you support Milo, you are either a fascist, or a fascist sympathizer.

 

[legacyzero]

https://youtu.be/7oCmhZ-1gGc?t=2479

Hmmm I'll watch this. Always got an ear open for Hitchens

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Is that what's happening?

Harrassing and publicly humiliating people, especially members of the LGBT community, is kind of his gimmick.

And yet people still defend the shit he spews as free speech.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Sure.

Here's a Breitbart article announcing Yimbodopolopoloplolous kicking off his campaign at Berkeley.

Here's Yorbadorpoulous using his targeted tactics on a trans student at UW.

Thanks.

Geez, when I clicked on the second link, I immediately got a small window promoting their "free speech is burning" shirt.

 

[onadesertedisland]

https://youtu.be/7oCmhZ-1gGc?t=2479

Sure you can offend, but don't cry when no one comes to your rescue because your message is so abhorrent that people hate you. Free speech has consequences.

 

[rakkadakka]

It is addressed towards his supporters.

I'd imagine most of his supporters are internet edgelords who've had little to no hardships in their lives.

OR

Maybe they have and just want to blame everyone else for it.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Dude used to wear an iron cross.

There exists a single photo of Milo wearing an iron cross necklace, taken I believe when he was a teenager. This does not prove he is currently a Nazi. In fact, the Iron Cross without a superimposed swastika is not automatically a hate symbol. According to the Anti-Defamation League, which tracks hate symbols:

"The use of the Iron Cross in a non-racist context has greatly proliferated in the United States, to the point that an Iron Cross in isolation (i.e., without a superimposed swastika or without other accompanying hate symbols) cannot be determined to be a hate symbol."

Even if it had some kind of fascist significance for Milo at the time, he certainly doesn't wear it anymore. I also did dumb things when I was in high school -- I'm certainly glad I'm not held to all the beliefs I had back then.

 

[old]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

 

[onadesertedisland]

There exists a single photo of Milo wearing an iron cross necklace, taken I believe when he was a teenager. This does not prove he is currently a Nazi. In fact, the Iron Cross with out a superimposed swastika is not automatically a hate symbol. According to the Anti-Defamation League, which tracks hate symbols:

"The use of the Iron Cross in a non-racist context has greatly proliferated in the United States, to the point that an Iron Cross in isolation (i.e., without a superimposed swastika or without other accompanying hate symbols) cannot be determined to be a hate symbol."

Even if it had some kind of fascist significance for Milo at the time, he certainly doesn't wear it anymore. I also did dumb things when I was in high school -- I'm certainly glad I'm not held to all the beliefs I had back then.

So what are your thoughts about Milo? Do you support him?

 

[FaytesEnd]

This has gone from Nazis shouldn't expect to be greeted with peaceful protests, to rounding people up like Nazis want to do? Right. Wait, alt-right. ;-) If someone outs themselves as a Nazi, they should be treated as a Nazi. Social pariahs. If they go around inciting violence with their evil message, their free speech has consequences.

Wait..
So the Nazi (who I'm no fan of, their nuts too) incites violence...
but...
the antifa guy... DOES violence....

and the antifa guy is still in the right? I'm just so confused. Violence in either case is bad. Saying you want to punch or hurt someone isn't the same as actually doing it. If the Nazi was out punching someone I would be completely against him and arguing he should be hit with the full force of the law.

I can't believe people are arguing for violence. Once one side starts it, all bets are off and third world country, here we come. Remember in Nazi Germany... the brown shirts (Nazis) were a reaction to political violence of the day. (Man I watch to much history channel while playing 4x games.... )

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-sturmabteilung-or-sa/

It starts out like this. The police are unable to control the violence and some idiot comes along with his/her own group and BAM, history repeats itself. Said idiot uses that as a platform to launch stuff that would have been unthinkable before.

Let the idiot Nazi say what he wants to say, as long as he doesn't act on it. Thoughts aren't crimes. The antifa guy too, but the moment you turn to violence AND then start to normalize it, it leaves your opponents with no other choice but to be violent themselves.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Harrassing and publicly humiliating people, especially members of the LGBT community, is kind of his gimmick.

And yet people still defend the shit he spews as free speech.

dude is filth. cant believe the clowns in here defending the scumbag.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

So what are your thoughts about Milo? Do you support him?

I disagree strongly with most of his views.

I do support his right to speak without being subjected to violence.

 

[rakkadakka]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

I'm not even sure what Left you or Blow are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned some college kids getting out of hand at a protest hardly is as terrifying as a man who loves Trump murdering 6 people in Canada.

Please do explain.

 

[Ferrio]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

Sounds to me like you don't even know what Fascism is.

 

[SolidSnakesMyStepDad]

God he is so smart. He sums it up so well. I have so much respect for him.

 

[onadesertedisland]

I disagree strongly with most of his views.

I do support his right to speak without being subjected to violence.

Do you support his freedom of speech when it can result in harm towards others?

 

[wuth]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

Be destroyed!? What are you talking about?

 

[Heroman]

I disagree strongly with most of his views.

I do support his right to speak without being subjected to violence.

Hate speech that insights violence isn't a right.

 

[Tain]

We can all agree that Dylan Roof was scary and bad, but he represents no risk to someone being able to safely pick up a pre-order at Gamestop.

lmao

 

[legacyzero]

Sure you can offend, but don't cry when no one comes to your rescue because your message is so abhorrent that people hate you. Free speech has consequences.

You know- I think this may be my fav post in here so far. And I think the two exists, and to me- that's the beauty of Freedom of Speech. If people want to feel free to cling to the 1st, they have to be proud that consequence can exist. But hat consequence cannot come from the government. But perhaps a knuckle sandwich.

 

[Mman235]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

People who literally want to torture a significant amount of the population to death vs people who want to stop that.

Wow what an impossible moral dilemma.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

A Milo supporter shot and almost killed a guy, a Trump fanatic shot up a Mosque, Trump basically told his supporters to be violent to anybody who disagrees with him at his rallies but it's "the left" that are too violent. Blow is being so misguided it hurts.

 

[Maebe]

Blow and I agree. The Left are the new fascists. Follow dogma or be destroyed. I've voted liberal my whole life and these new liberals scare the hell out of me.

Strange to be scared of people who disapprove of literal neo nazis in a time where places of worship are being burnt to the ground in trump's america.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Do you support his freedom of speech when it can result in harm towards others?

Well, this is tricky. No, individuals do not have the right to directly incite violence.

But I've followed his career closely and Milo has never advocated violence. Yes, he's very conservative. He supports Trump. He believes in traditional gender roles. He wants to build a border wall. He wants to ban Muslims.

Now, are these positions that could result in "harm" towards others? Depending on your perspective -- maybe. But they are CERTAINLY views that he has the right to express without being subjected to bodily harm.

 

[Demoskinos]

We have white supremacists literally shooting people in the streets and being let free without charges. But yet "the left are the facists" even though we have people like Milo outing Trans people and having them bullied and harassed to the point they have to drop out of school and basically go into hiding because they are afraid for their lives. But yes tell me all about how peaceful sit ins and lofty ideas have dissuaded Nazis and Facists over the years.

Shit like that is real easy to say when your a white cis dude. Free speech doesn't mean that your rhetoric shouldn't and cant be protested. Milo and Richard Spencer and their followers can spew their hate and they can get punched in the face every time they say it.

 

[Koyuga]

I disagree strongly with most of his views.

I do support his right to speak without being subjected to violence.

Harassment and hate speech isn't free speech. That's not a right.

 

[Dick Jones]

That is some pretty strong revisionist stuff you have going on there yourself. America cared but had bigger problem or so they thought. They were coming off of the great depression. Stuck between interventionism and isolationism, alot of americans at the time had no idea how it was going to turn out early on.

Hind sight of course is 20/20 and you can judge after the fact but here is the truth, despite the handling of jewish people being public news in germany, the "final solution" did not filter out to the allies until after the war had started. The first report which spoke of a plan for the mass murder of Jews was smuggled out of Poland by the Bund (a Jewish socialist political organization) and reached England in the spring of 1942. At that time the attack on Pearl Harbor had already happened and America was in the war. SO to pose the idea that Americans didn't care so they opposed getting into the war is a revisionist line of thinking. Americans didn't even know.

I'm not saying the Americans were passive to the final solution, but they did know of the mistreatment of the Jews in Germany (for example The Night of the Broken Glass/Kristallnacht). Even after that Jewish refugees still had difficulty gaining entry to America. I'm glad the Americans in part helped put an end to the Third Reich but the original comment was untrue, alternative fact, whatever. You said it yourself, the awful news came out after America entered the war so it was not to stop a genocide.

I should have used more context, my apologies.

 

[legacyzero]

Harassment and hate speech isn't free speech. That's not a right.

Direct harassment, sure. Hate speech? Wrong. Unfortunately but it's true. People have to right to speech that makes them look like a complete dickhole. That's just how it is.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Hate speech that insights violence isn't a right.

Harassment and hate speech isn't free speech. That's not a right.

No, not if it directly incites violence.

But according to the 1st amendment of the U.S. constitution, hate speech actually IS a right. Groups like the KKK and Westboro Baptist church regularly engage in hate speech, and the U.S. Supreme Court has continually upheld their right to gather, speak and demonstrate. This is very basic constitutional law. That fact that it is encountering so much hostility in this thread is alarming.

 

[Ferrio]

Why do we have to keep bringing up the free speech thing when none of these people had their right to free speech revoked?

 

[Tain]

That's just how it is.

maybe that's why nazis get punched

 

[Koyuga]

Direct harassment, sure. Hate speech? Wrong. Unfortunately but it's true. People have to right to speech that makes them look like a complete dickhole. That's just how it is.

If that's how it is then I'll concede that. But it should not be acceptable, and those who would abuse their rights like that should absolutely have to fear for their safety.

 

[legacyzero]

maybe that's why nazis get punched

Bingo.

 

[Wensih]

I think what you wanted to say is that Blow is a genius game developer that made one of the most thoughtful and intelligent puzzle games of the last couple of years, but that you disagree with his political opinions.

I don't think The Witness is as poignant as many try to state it as being. I think it tries to tout an idea of intellectual superiority and randian seclusion that doesn't come to any conclusion nor captures the spirit of collaboration that is inherent in scientific observation and discovery. Also towards the end the puzzles dissolved into visual obfuscations on earlier logic puzzles that relied more on forcing a player into a singular world view.

 

[UberTag]

Man, I was wondering why the political banter in OT was so subdued the past 24 hours. Everyone's over here.

Oddly enough, there was a major rally in Los Angeles yesterday that should probably be more newsworthy in Gaming Discussion. SAG-AFTRA had a turnout of over 500 folks at the La Brea Tar Pits due to their strike for better pay.

Did you know that Gabrielle Carteris (Andrea Zuckerman of 90210 fame) was their president? I know I didn't.

As for Blow, he's wrong. I think we all know there's a difference between free speech and hate speech.

 

[MotionBlue]

Protests and riots are much more prevalent this election comparef to when Bush Jr cheated his way into office. I'm curious what changed.

all these nazi purity tests

It is a very serious allegation that gets thrown around far too easily lately. Same thing is happening to the word 'fascist'.

 

[Twiforce]

Remember how liberal pacifists in Weimar Germany totally destroyed fascism with the power of polite speech?

We should definitely repeat that strategy!