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[whyamihere]

This isn't surprising but is terribly disappointing.

 

[PK Gaming]

How many guys can resist it tho?

Anyone who has integrity?

EDIT: Sorry, not trying to be hard on you or anything but the "how could you resist" defense is pretty weak.

 

[Jetman]

So who are the 'cheatees' ? Sarah Michelle Gellar? Charisma Carpenter? Amy Acker?

Surprised Joss' ex-wife didn't out whoever helped break her marriage up.
Was nice of her not to, as all of the women involved have likely already moved on with their lives, but still.

 

[Messofanego]

“When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can’t touch it.”​

This is right in line with how Joss Whedon wrote his "wicked sexy" Wonder Woman script.

 

[AlimNassor]

i'm not really up to explaining feminism 101 to y'all, but you should go read the nick robinson thread to get some context for why a dude going on about how he's a feminist/woke but then uses his fame to try and sleep with women can be bad. only whedon is mainstream famous and was cheating on his wife REPEATEDLY for 15 years, which is kindaaa worse lol.

Based on what? Have we any definitive proof aside from he said, she said?

 

[JABEE]

It's not really just a 'personal issue' when he capitalized on that banner for work, and now also to seemingly sleep with other women. It's not just people trying to hold him to some pristine standard he didn't encourage himself or take advantage of himself.

You’re right. It’s part of his brand. He’s a hypocrite and not a “nice guy,”

 

[cartographer]

I'm not surprised, like many in this thread are not either. Joss Whedon has always had this morally superior smugness about him when it came to his "feminism". He thought that made it okay to make the plethora of sexist jokes in Firefly, or even Dollhouse as a whole.

Really interesting to hear that he is a Fanbase Fucker, though.

Not terribly shocking. His particular fascination with feminism seems to begin and end at the same psychological impulse that boys have from teasing girls on the playground and having them chase him.

Pretty much this. It's why the WW stuff wasn't that surprising either. There's always been a bit of an asterisk next to his work on female characters. It's sort of his particular combination of virtue signaling and sleaze.

 

[royalan]

You do understand that a superior who has sex with an underling with consent is still abusing their power, yes? And could get fired for it?

Depends on the profession, actually.

Automatically labeling any sexual relationship between two people with an unequal power dynamic "abuse" by the person with the perceived power robs the partner with less power of their agency, and their right to find that power dynamic attractive in itself.

In short: the world is complicated.

 

[Anung]

So who are the 'cheatees' ? Sarah Michelle Gellar? Charisma Carpenter? Amy Acker?

Surprised Joss' ex-wife didn't out whoever helped break her marriage up.
Was nice of her not to, as all of the women involved have likely already moved on with their lives, but still.

Name dropping those involved would have probably deflected some of the flak from Joss.

 

[AuthenticM]

i'm not really up to explaining feminism 101 to y'all, but you should go read the nick robinson thread to get some context for why a dude going on about how he's a feminist/woke but then uses his fame to try and sleep with women can be bad. only whedon is mainstream famous and was cheating on his wife REPEATEDLY for 15 years, which is kindaaa worse lol.

None of the women with whom Whedon cheated on his wife have come forward with details of their relationship, so we shouldn't presume anything.

 

[lightskintwin]

i'm not really up to explaining feminism 101 to y'all, but you should go read the nick robinson thread to get some context for why a dude going on about how he's a feminist/woke but then uses his fame to try and sleep with women can be bad. only whedon is mainstream famous and was cheating on his wife REPEATEDLY for 15 years, which is kindaaa worse lol.

So Joss Whedon was getting down in the DMs? LOL

 

[Human Trashcan]

Why are so many replies going "not sure if I believe her because she's his ex"? Dude admits 99% of it in his own letter. Also: anyone would be spiteful if they found out their partner cheated on them, habitually, during the entire marriage.

Also, "what does this have to do with feminism": First of all, habitually cheating on and lying to your partner is not a very feminist thing to do. Second, leveraging your position of power as a showrunner and your feminist creds to get close to women and then bang them is incredibly un-feminist. Again, something he cops to himself in his letter. None of these things are respectful to women, so it follows that it isn't feminist. Not rocket science here guys.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Depends on the profession, actually.

Automatically labeling any sexual relationship between two people with an unequal power dynamic "abuse" by the person with the perceived power robs the partner with less power of their agency, and their right to find that power dynamic attractive in itself.

In short: the world is complicated.

True, but I'd argue that it's more prominent and problematic in TV and film than in an office setting.

 

[danthefan]

None of the women with whom Whedon cheated on his wife have come forward with details of their relationship, so we shouldn't presume anything.

This is another interesting point alright. Why has no fan, whose career can't be affected by Whedon in any way, sold their story to a tabloid?

 

[JABEE]

I think the claims of feminism have more to do with him supposedly using it as an excuse to get close to women. "I just hang around with women because I'm just a big raging feminist, oh no I slept with them."

It definitely calls into question the merits of that claim, yeah.

Cheaters love to spin yarns like that.

 

[sirap]

Does this make Whedon a "softboy?"

I can't believe I just learned that word. I feel old.

 

[dead souls]

This is another interesting point alright. Why has no fan, whose career can't be affected by Whedon in any way, sold their story to a tabloid?

You vastly overestimate the value of an "I slept with Joss Whedon" story.

 

[HeatBoost]

Fucking around a lot is not a particularly inviolable moral threshold to cross (at least, from the outside)

But

Fucking around a lot in a professional setting, when you are in a position of authority, and the people you are fucking around with are subordinate to you, repeatedly, is pretty damn shady.

 

[Jest Chillin]

This is another interesting point alright. Why has no fan, whose career can't be affected by Whedon in any way, sold their story to a tabloid?

Given the wording, it's unclear if she's even saying that he physically cheated with fans. She could just as easily be saying he emotionally cheated with fans.

 

[Jetman]

“When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can’t touch it.”​

This is right in line with how Joss Whedon wrote his "wicked sexy" Wonder Woman script.

....The Batgirl movie is gonna suck isn't it?

Name dropping those involved would have probably deflected some of the flak from Joss.

True. It takes two to cheat though. I'm sure these women knew he was married.

 

[danthefan]

You vastly overestimate the value of an "I slept with Joss Whedon" story.

Yeah maybe. I've seen shit like this in papers before at least.

 

[Snarky(HEART)]

I like how Gaf suddenly rushes to slander him based off hearsay. Like he's the worst person in the world based off what? What proof? If alls said and true he's a terrible person. But, what proof does she have? Why do we take her word on the spot?

There's already tons of evidence of Joss being sleazy and shitty views towards women so it makes it more likely to be true.

 

[nickinerdface]

Based on what? Have we any definitive proof aside from he said, she said?

i mean what would be definitive proof for you lol
does she needed to have recorded their phone conversations or...

no seriously, go read the nick robinson thread. there's a whole debate about the merit of proof in these types of situations.

 

[AoM]

Will wait for corroboration.

 

[JABEE]

Fucking around a lot is not a particularly inviolable moral threshold to cross (at least, from the outside)

But

Fucking around a lot in a professional setting, when you are in a position of authority, and the people you are fucking around with are subordinate to you, is pretty damn shady.

Yep. This is the questionable, scummy thing about the article, not whether he is a true feminist.

He seems like a jerk to his wife, I never had a connection to the brand of Whedon, so I don’t care if he’s a hypocrite.

If he was abusing his position of authority, then he’s a creep.

 

[AuthenticM]

no seriously, go read the nick robinson thread. there's a whole debate about the merit of proof in these types of situations.

Except in this case we don't have anything but hearsay. Like I said: none of the women with whom Whedon has slept have said anything on the matter.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

True, but I'd argue that it's more prominent and problematic in TV and film than in an office setting.

What's the point in arguing general power dynamics in TV? We're talking about Joss here, not the industry. No one besides Joss and the people he cheated with knows what transpired. Using industry power dynamics in the industry won't help anyone know what happened here. It'll just be an easy way to say what Joss did was abuse because it can happen in the industry.

 

[Random Human]

Does this make Whedon a "softboy?"

I can't believe I just learned that word. I feel old.

I don't think a guy his age can be a soft boy. Probably more like a Nice Guy.

 

[nickinerdface]

Except in this case we don't have anything but hearsay. Like I said: none of the women with whom Whedon has slept have said anything on the matter.

i wonder why

 

[RoninChaos]

SO WHO WAS HE FUCKIN' Y'ALL, AMIRITE?

 

[Kinyou]

i wonder why

So lets jump to conclusions?

 

[lightskintwin]

True, but I'd argue that it's more prominent and problematic in TV and film than in an office setting.

You have any statistics to back this up? As somebody who's spent most of his career in corporate office settings, I think it happens more in office settings tbh. However I realize it's only anecdotal evidence.

TV and film is such a small industry compared to office settings all around the world. Perhaps it happens more percentage wise in TV and film industries, but until I see some numbers, it's hard for me to believe it happens more than in office settings.

 

[nickinerdface]

So lets jump to conclusions?

you guys, lmao really. seriously. go read the thread.

this is playing out exactly how it went before the proof came out for nick robinson.

and then if/when proof is produced (which i don't think it matters if it ever does), we'll be debating whether or not the proof is legit.

it's a circle with you guys lol

 

[AlimNassor]

There's already tons of evidence of Joss being sleazy and shitty views towards women so it makes it more likely to be true.

I haven't seen any but, I hope it's just hearsay. That'd be disheartening.

i mean what would be definitive proof for you lol
does she needed to have recorded their phone conversations or...

no seriously, go read the nick robinson thread. there's a whole debate about the merit of proof in these types of situations.

Not a he said, she said situation. I don't just go by on peoples words. If he said it or multiple people confirmed so I'd believe so.

 

[Vermillion]

What does infidelity have to do with feminism?

This. Like, it's an awful, awful thing to do, and my perception of him is 100% lower...

But I'm not sure this has anything to do with feminism.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

I imagine most dudes who loudly proclaim how feminist they are are like that solely to get in women's pants.

Also office relationships happen a lot.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Does this make Whedon a "softboy?"

I can't believe I just learned that word. I feel old.

I just read an article on that and I feel so attacked right now.

 

[Kinyou]

you guys, lmao really. seriously. go read the thread.

this is playing out exactly how it went before the proof came out for nick robinson.

and then if/when proof is produced (which i don't think it matters if it ever does), we'll be debating whether or not the proof is legit.

it's a circle with you guys lol

I had no trouble accepting the proof when it came to Nick Robinsons, what I have trouble with is jumping to conclusions.

Hell, in this case there's not even an accusation

 

[A Link to the Past]

You have any statistics to back this up? As somebody who's spent most of his career in corporate office settings, I think it happens more in office settings tbh. However I realize it's only anecdotal evidence.

TV and film is so such a small industry compared to office settings all around the world. Perhaps it happens more percentage wise in TV and film industries, but until I see some numbers, it's hard for me to believe it happens more than in office settings.

A major creator has greater access and greater influence. There may be more employee romance in an office setting, but the ethics involved is worse, especially when we get into either age of one of the people involved or the fact that people are a lot more desperate to get noticed.

 

[AuthenticM]

you guys, lmao really. seriously. go read the thread.

this is playing out exactly how it went before the proof came out for nick robinson.

and then if/when proof is produced (which i don't think it matters if it ever does), we'll be debating whether or not the proof is legit.

it's a circle with you guys lol

I was in that thread.

The current situation is nothing like the Robinson situation. The Robinson situation had dozens of uninterested parties coming forward with allegations that Robinson had harassed peers and fans.

Here, we only have the word of one bitter ex-wife.

Do you see how different the situation is?

If dozens of people in-the-know start confirming Whedon's ex-wife, then we'll be in the same situation.

 

[Maengun1]

So who are the 'cheatees' ? Sarah Michelle Gellar? Charisma Carpenter? Amy Acker?

Surprised Joss' ex-wife didn't out whoever helped break her marriage up.
Was nice of her not to, as all of the women involved have likely already moved on with their lives, but still.

*Angel spoilers below*

It's been pretty well-known forever that *something* personal went down that soured the working relationship of Joss and Charisma, though not specifically what. This doesn't surprise me at all.

You can actually track it in Cordelia's character arc where she was really flourishing for a couple years when the show was clearly infatuated with her, then she got married/pregnant around the time Angel season 4 was being made and the show suddenly does a total character assassination on her and she's written out in the most ignominious way imaginagle (which, thankfully, the 100th episode "You're Welcome" goes a long way to fix but it's still the single biggest flaw in the whole Buffyverse to me).

So yeah, I definitely fall in the "not surprised, disappointed" camp hearing all this.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Just saying Buffy rocked and was such a unique interesting bad ass female hero when their were so little ... ex wife drama?

 

[WrenchNinja]

"Oh he's just a flawed human being"

I don't know, using your position of power over young actresses, not telling your wife you're a serial cheater and continuing to have sex with her seems a lot of worse than just simply being flawed.

I'm about as surprised that this is the go to defense to handwave everything as I am that's he's an asshole.

 

[PK Gaming]

Just saying Buffy rocked and was such a unique interesting bad ass female hero when their were so little ... ex wife drama?

What does Buffy being good have to do with any of this?

Being a hypocritical dick doesn't prevent you from making good content.

 

[lightskintwin]

A major creator has greater access and greater influence. There may be more employee romance in an office setting, but the ethics involved is worse, especially when we get into either age of one of the people involved or the fact that people are a lot more desperate to get noticed.

So No. You don't have any numbers to back anything you're saying.

I've routinely had bosses purposely hire young, attractive female workers in positions like Admin Assistant, brag about it among some of his male employees, and proceed to court them for intimacy. Sometimes it happened, sometimes it didn't. Also all of these guys were married.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

 

[riotous]

It's not the cheating that sticks out as much as he sounds like he took advantage of and preened young, likely impressionable fans and actresses.

I dunno, seems like a "needs more info" situation; jumping to the conclusion that young women are being taken advantage of is actually a long standing aspect of the sexist patriarchy.

It's also possible young women with agency got what they wanted, and since Joss was married that makes him an asshole, but I don't see proof of hypocrisy.

 

[Professor Beef]

She might write she didnt, but she probably did. She liked staying married to him and the perks that came along with it.

"yeah clearly she was a golddigger"

what the fuck am i reading here

 

[Jarmel]

I'm assuming it was SMG was the one Joss was possibly sleeping with going off this earlier post:

The show Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce has a cheating director husband character who is having an affair with a 20 year old actress, who is the star of a CW show about vampire hunting. I always suspected it was some low-key tea spillage because the showrunner of Girlfriend's Guide is Marti Nixon who...*drumroll* was a producer on Buffy. I just never imagined it might be about Joss. But who knows.

Big fan of Whedon, I'd hate to find out he's been doing some dirt.

If true then it makes sense why she wouldn't come forward considering she's married and has kids. Probably a number of alleged individuals are in similar circumstances.

 

[Vermillion]

Stop? Seriously? Yes, if a woman cheats on her man and knowingly exposes him to an STD in doing so yeah, if say she's being a terrible feminist in this case.

That's a little broad, yes? That's a terrible act, but following this train of logic... You can ultimately extend a lot of things to being a good feminist. Then it goes from "everyone who believes women are equal" are feminists to "everyone who believes women are equal AND haven't done anything harmful to another person."