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[Punkster_NY]

did a search and didn't find anything...mock and lock if old/posted.
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/killzone-4-uses-raytracing-for-its-real-time-reflections/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DDYVcQNgu4Y#


the full presentation has been uploaded. enjoy!
http://youtu.be/_29M8F-sRsU

Blasphemy, how can a PC centric gaming website have a story about a console exclusive title? Did we just enter the dark side of gaming? Well, before jumping to early conclusions, know that we’re simply interesting in the new tech that Killzone 4 is bringing. And since we’ve been covering ray-tracing this whole time, we find it interesting that Killzone 4 is the first title that offers such a feature in a full length title.

What’s also interesting is that this tech will be further used by other developers who create multiplatform games, thus it will be coming to our platform too. Hopefully. So no, we’re not going crazy, abandoning the PC or anything. We’re simply sharing something that most tech guys will find interesting.

During the Digital Dragons 2013 event, Guerrilla Games held a presentation for Killzone 4, in which Michael Drobot discussed about the lighting techniques that will be supported by this PS4 launch title.

 

[dragonelite]

Just to clear things up raytracing is used for a lot of stuff....
Collision detection,Ai what ever needs a distance and a direction it will probably use some form of raytracing.

 

[The_Monk]

Amazing, the water reflections on the floor are pretty good.

 

[Tripolygon]

Quick slide from the video that was taken off.

 

[MarkV]

Crysis 2 (with the DX11 patch) did it first.

 

[Nirolak]

Presumably this is the popular screen space implementation we've been seeing going around recently.

It has nice results.

 

[Violater]

I want a full on stealth game where reflections and lighting/shadows serve as visual cues in traversing the environment.

 

[onQ123]

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

 

[phosphor112]

Crysis 2 (with the DX11 patch) did it first.

I bet you left that comment on the youtube video too, huh?

Thanks for the news flash.

 

[KKRT00]

Presumably this is the popular screen space implementation we've been seeing going around recently.

It has nice results.

Yes, its exactly done in the same as in many other games like Dirt 2/3, Crysis 2/3, GW 2 or UE 4 presentations. Of course there are different algorithms for this solution and approximations, but basically its casting rays in visible scene.

For example in Crysis 3 You can change quality of SSR by console command, which affects amount of rays and blurring of reflections. In latest AMD presentation they've even described how many rays CE 3 using, how many they are using in Ruby demo and what do they expect in future

---

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Why would people listen to You when You dont have a clue what You are talking about?

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Interesting.

 

[EatChildren]

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Approximate raytrace reflection rendering isn't new, has appeared in high end PC games already, and should be expected on next generation hardware by anybody with their head screwed on.

It's also different to rendering an entire scene and lighting model with raytracing.

 

[Thorgal]

so in short next gen will blow minds?

 

[RoboPlato]

I hope GG keeps doing their tech articles like this one over the next few months. I really love the way they demonstrate and explain the stuff. I learned a lot about how devs work on PS3 from their stuff this gen and I hope it continues for PS4.

 

[MarkV]

I bet you left that comment on the youtube video too, huh?

Thanks for the news flash.

Nope.
But the article say that K:SF "is the first title that offers such a feature in a full length title" and it's not true.

...And of course everyone with little tech understanding knew this feature from the gameplay presentation, so it's nothing new.

Area lights instead is quite a surprise for me.

 

[JasoNsider]

Just to clear things up raytracing is used for a lot of stuff....
Collision detection,Ai what ever needs a distance and a direction it will probably use some form of raytracing.

Close, but that is actually raycasting. I can see how you would make that mistake though. I can do, say, 2 or 3 raycasts for a collision check, but I would need many many thousands to millions of rays in a trace to make a physically correct image. Just wanted to clear this up

 

[BigTnaples]

To quote myself from the announcement thread. Here are some examples of its implementation in the trailer.

Here are a few more examples throughout the video of the realtime reflections. They are a lot easier to notice when YOU are actually playing as opposed to watching someone play because you are then more cognizant of its reaction to your input. In Crysis 2 is constantly gave me "Wow" moments at the graphics. And it seems KZ SF uses them more liberally.

It really helps give materials a feeling of being seated in the world.


(pardon the low res and compression, just using youtube on my non retina display iPad.)

 

[dragonelite]

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Jumping to conclusion that aren't there don't know man?

 

[xJavonta]

Holy shit. It's not necessarily the first time I've heard a game use it, but I never looked at it until now. Beautiful.

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Because you don't know what you're talking about approximately 100% of the time

 

[phosphor112]

Yes, its exactly done in the same as in many other games like Dirt 2/3, Crysis 2/3, GW 2 or UE 4 presentations. Of course there are different algorithms for this solution and approximations, but basically its casting rays in visible scene.

For example in Crysis 3 You can change quality of SSR by console command, which affects amount of rays and blurring of reflections. In latest AMD presentation they've even described how many rays CE 3 using, how many they are using in Ruby demo and what do they expect in future

I may be incorrect, but raycasting is singular rays. This allows reflections within reflections, which is beyond raycasting?

 

[dragonelite]

I may be incorrect, but raycasting is singular rays. This allows reflections within reflections, which is beyond raycasting?

Looks like they shoot a ray and look up the normal at that pixel then shoot another ray and sample the diffuse color and blend with the environment cube map accordingly.

 

[DieH@rd]

When will AMD release CE3 Ruby demo?

 

[Wickerbasket]

Looks nice, I never noticed that before.

 

[SniperHunter]

To quote myself from the announcement thread. Here are some examples of its implementation in the trailer.

very impressive

 

[KKRT00]

I may be incorrect, but raycasting is singular rays. This allows reflections within reflections, which is beyond raycasting?

Yes and no if You are talking about ray-marching. Its true that they dont bounce additionally to allow for additional reflections in reflection, but it could be modified to do it. Still raymarching is raytracing technique and Killzone SF doesnt bounce rays, because its not really required for screenspace reflections. In most cases You wouldnt get any reflection withing reflection and even if You do, You couldnt spot it, because it would be too small/blurred/overlapped by something else, but it would increase cost of SSR exponentially.

 

[gaming_noob]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

 

[Horse Armour]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

Crysis 3 already looks better and that came out a few months ago.

 

[dragonbane]

Some of the reflections are still pre-baked though. Especially the glass material used on the buildings doesn't reflect the choppers etc.

Still looks good of course.

 

[Wickerbasket]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

You're probably going to be very pleasantly surprised then.

Games always look better near the end of the generation.

 

[Stallion Free]

Dat 8gb gddr5.

 

[USIGSJ]

Looks like they shoot a ray and look up the normal at that pixel then shoot another ray and sample the diffuse color and blend accordingly.

Yeah, goes like that. Older slide where the algorithm is explained.

 

[RoboPlato]

At the end of the video it sounds like they're using the same raytracing pass to add GI as well.

Crysis 3 already looks better and that came out a few months ago.

This game isn't even out yet and still has a substantial amount of time in development left. While I don't doubt that there are rigs that'll be able to run Crysis 3 with much better IQ than SF, it's a little early to make that call definitively. I think they'll be comparable.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Crysis 3 already looks better and that came out a few months ago.

Not seen anything in Crysis 3 which touches the helicopter (-thing) scenes in KZ:SF.

Sorry!

 

[nelsonroyale]

Crysis 3 already looks better and that came out a few months ago.

I think Killzone looks better, personally. To me it is a better marriage of tech and art.

 

[jett]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

Killzone 2 wasn't a launch title.

 

[Takuya]

Killzone 4???

 

[mephixto]

One day people will learn to listen to me instead of attacking when I say things SMH & with that said why haven't my rights to make threads been giving back to me?

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

DX11 Real-Time Raytracing Tech Demo Running on a i7 + Radeon 5870

Are you still faping when you read a 4k TV news article?

Reflection on those images looks great, hope we can see more about KZ on E3

 

[SniperHunter]

Crysis 3 might have the tech but it is an ugly looking game, I was blown away by Bioshock Infinite. Nothing in Crysis 3 blew me away at all...

I think good art is just as important as good tech

 

[RockmanWhore]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

 

[Cidd]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

Can't say I agree with this, I think GOW3, GOW Ascension and Uncharted 2/3 looks way better imo.

 

[Lord Error]

They went to town with it too, the reflections were everywhere in that KZ demo, and it looks fantastic in no small part thanks to that. The glass buildings never looked shinier and glassier.

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

you are not most people.

 

[RoboPlato]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

Most people were really impressed. The low quality stream and only posting the gameplay on Youtube has really hurt the tech analysis of the game since there's a lot of subtle things that will be noticeable when playing but are hidden in highly compressed video.

 

[phosphor112]

Yes and no if You are talking about ray-marching. Its true that they dont bounce additionally to allow for additional reflections in reflection, but it could be modified to do it. Still raymarching is raytracing technique and Killzone SF doesnt bounce rays, because its not really required for screenspace reflections. In most cases You wouldnt get any reflection withing reflection and even if You do, You couldnt spot it, because it would be too small/blurred/overlapped by something else, but it would increase cost of SSR exponentially.

I don't think I'm following. Isn't ray marching when diffuse/reflection calculated throughout the ray, and not just when the ray contacts an object?

Anyway, the guy mentioned how you can have a "reflection, of a reflection of the sun" and he went even further saying you can have multiple reflections that reflect in a reflection. I suppose they can cast a ray from the reflection to the other reflection, but wouldn't that also half the resolution of THAT reflection? So their "ray tracer" runs in half the resolution, and the second reflection would be HALF of that? Instead if they had a ray that bounced directly to the next reflection, it would be under the same ray tracing pass? Or am I just being stupid?

Lots of question marks here from me lol.

 

[Backfoggen]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

I noticed it in this scene

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Why would people listen to You when You dont have a clue what You are talking about?

Everyone's being mean to the cute muscley guy


I think the fact that noone was really blown away with KZ4 shows that prebaked assets still will have quite the advantage through next gen at least.

 

[phosphor112]

Yeah, goes like that. Older slide where the algorithm is explained.

Can you possibly upload to imgur? Abload is blocked at my work.

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't expect games to look much better than KZ4 next gen. Killzone 2 still the best looking game last gen.

I see comments like this every gen. Launch games always look a ton worse than games coming later in the lifetime.

 

[SniperHunter]

I see comments like this every gen. Launch games always look a ton worse than games coming later in the lifetime.

this really isn't true IMO. When you have a good marriage of tech and art, the game will continue to impress for years to come. Look at Halo on Xbox or PGR3 on Xbox 360....

 

[Confidence Man]

I'm sure it's more sophisticated but it looks no better than the hacked in reflections in DX:HR to me. Where's that toilet screen?

 

[EVIL]

Nice, but what's the point if nobody noticed if when the game was unveiled? Most people weren't blown away by the KZ4 demo.

Its a subtle effect. I noticed it when they where showing the demo, but I am not going to make a thread about such a small feature.

when used correctly it really adds to the scene, it helps to ground everything in place.