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could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

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onQ123

Member
I been thinking, the idea behind The Cell Be was to be able to do some CPU task with the power & speed of a GPU & try to reach graphical goals through effects that use the CPU more, like Ray tracing & things like that.


we are not quite there yet but doing graphical task with the Cell pushed the weaker RSX above the GPU in the Xbox 360 whenever it was put to good use.


now fast forward GPGPUs are becoming common & devs will be able to pull off these effects with a powerful GPU that's going to get us even closer to stuff like real-time Ray Tracing & other effects that's CPU heavy but can now be done with a GPGPU.


& with the type of processing power that the GPGPUs will give the next gen consoles devs might be able to take graphics to levels that most people don't even think is possible right now.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
And customers will see that fancy ray-tracing, shrug their shoulders and say that it looks like an Xbox 360 game.
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Microsoft and Sony had better bloat their new boxes' prices by $200, just to be safe.

onQ123 said:
what the hell are you talking about? this is not about Ray-tracing this is about pulling off CPU heavy graphical task using the GPGPU.
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Ray-tracing is actually a fairly common example of something you'd do with the kind of floating point power you get from more generalized GPU usage.
 
Shikoro said:
Far from it... It will be a big leap when you consider what tech is going to be used. :D
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The tech wil be much better, the budgets though? I really wish (it won't happen, I know) that devs would use the extra power to make it cheaper to reach the current standard, rather than pushing a new level.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
And a tiny step when you consider the difference it makes to what actually gets put on the screen in the eyes of anyone but the most ardent graphic whores and the most self-deluded fanboys.
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No sir there is too much room for improvement. When you finally see what next generation has to offer with great specs it should be obvious. However no me wants to wait till 2013.
 
Log4Girlz said:
It will be unquestionably the smallest leap of any generation previously.
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I agree and see a lot of people expecting otherwise. To me the next gen will be all about the services and the "experience" and less about the horsepower.
In any case, I'd consider a better leap some innovative AI stuff, physics, world interactivity and animation but I don't really see that happening. I don't think graphics will surpass what PC's are already capable of delivering (i.e. Witcher 2 level stuff), at least for some 3-4 years, but I hope I'm wrong.
 
Orayn said:
Microsoft and Sony had better bloat their new boxes' prices by $200, just to be safe.



Ray-tracing is actually a fairly common example of something you'd do with the kind of floating point power you get from more generalized GPU usage.
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I know I was just pointing out that it's not all about ray-tracing & that was just the example that I was using to get my point across.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
And a tiny step when you consider the difference it makes to what actually gets put on the screen in the eyes of anyone but the most ardent graphic whores and the most self-deluded fanboys.
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You only need to listen to all the talk from developers/publishers of cross-generation engine usage to know that.

Going to be plenty of games released on 360/PS3 and their successors using that, which is a great way for publishers to limit their transition costs. Will just mean that playing a game on the 720/PS4 is like playing a current gen console game on a high-end PC.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
And a tiny step when you consider the difference it makes to what actually gets put on the screen in the eyes of anyone but the most ardent graphic whores and the most self-deluded fanboys.
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Nah, that's what it's gonna be after the next generation is over. There are still many improvements that regular consumers will see when comparing last-gen to next-gen games. :)
 
thuway said:
No sir there is too much room for improvement. When you finally see what next generation has to offer with great specs it should be obvious. However no me wants to wait till 2013.
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It ought to be obvious now. Show me comparisons of what you'd expect a console to output in 2012/2013 in comparison to (say) Uncharted 3 or Gears of War.

Back in '05, you might have been comparing games to Farcry.
 
I don't think it will be a small leap at all. Look at what devs are squeezing out of hardware that was concieved in 2004. The first year will see minor upgrades in visuals as per usual (with the exception of a stand-out or two), until devs get their head around the hardware.
 
maniac-kun said:
The PS3 does this allready in Killzone 2 & 3 and Battlefield 3 with defered lighting.
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I know & now this can be done with the power of a full GPU instead of the SPEs.


The Cell is like a Nerd who works out a little & a GPGPU is like a Power Lifter with brains.
 
Phonomezer said:
I don't think it will be a small leap at all. Look at what devs are squeezing out of hardware that was concieved in 2004. The first year will see minor upgrades in visuals as per usual (with the exception of a stand-out or two), until devs get their head around the hardware.
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That's just it though, the jump will be more gradual than people are expecting, I think. If you compare the start of the gen with next gen it will be a huge leap, or the end of the gens, but from UC3 to the first next gen game may not be astounding as some people are expecting.
 
I'm amazed at current gen graphics, but I don't think there's too much more they can do with it that I, personally, will care about. I'm more concerned about what they do with things like AI, game environments and dynamic world settings than the actual pixel-counting. I'm hoping the next-generation is more of a push in improving the game portion of the game instead of the shiny, graphics looking part of it.
 
Apart of fluid physics I can't think of anything spectacular coming from GPGPU. In the end 90% of the developers will chose better graphics above anything else.
 
Not convinced by GPGPU in consoles. If it requires silicon that isn't being used for pixel pushing, i'd rip it out. I want all my GPU silicon drawing stuff. My fancy multicore CPU can do that other stuff just fine
 
I think next gen will be very similar to the jump from dvd to bluray, the majority people won't care about the difference until they see a side by side and become accustomed to the higher quality.
 
Incendiary said:
I'm amazed at current gen graphics, but I don't think there's too much more they can do with it that I, personally, will care about. I'm more concerned about what they do with things like AI, game environments and dynamic world settings than the actual pixel-counting. I'm hoping the next-generation is more of a push in improving the game portion of the game instead of the shiny, graphics looking part of it.
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You're bound to be disappointed. And me too.
 
If they go with conservative technology in a 399 build in 2012 ? Your damn right it will be small. If both MS and Sony decide to go late 2013 or mid 2014, you'll see a much better leap. I really hope both companies decide to go for GTX 590 or 6990 performance with 4gb + Ram.
 
Dead Man said:
The tech wil be much better, the budgets though? I really wish (it won't happen, I know) that devs would use the extra power to make it cheaper to reach the current standard, rather than pushing a new level.
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I personally don't think development costs will rise that much. Dev's already code games that look far better than we see on our home consoles, because they need to gimp thier source code to fuck to have it run on our lowly machines.
Next gen they will be able to run that code much closer to their original vision. Therfore, cost may actually go down, because they won't have to spend so long optimising.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, onQ. Show some comparison shots of what we might expect. Far Cry PC blew people's faces off back in the day. Do the same now.
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PC development changed, consoles set the bar now. So i would say that its hard to find mind blowing stuff on the pc right now when all the big studios have to work with consoles in mind. (Blizzard and Valve are the exception).

Dead Man said:
The tech wil be much better, the budgets though? I really wish (it won't happen, I know) that devs would use the extra power to make it cheaper to reach the current standard, rather than pushing a new level.
Click to expand...
I really dont think that the costs are ging to rise, developers make high end assets/models nowadays and have to invest time and money to shrink them down and find the right amount of quality to make them fit in a games concept - if this is of no concern anymore, money could be saved (maybe).
 
jump_button said:
Next gen will look like the best of this gen as the base line
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The problem is, it might be stuck looking like this gen for years to come. We need a giant leap in hardware. This can only be done affordably in 2013 or 2014. This 2012 shit needs to go. Bring on the 20nm parts.
 
onQ123 said:
you know this how?

we haven't seen what a GPGPU can do inside a console yet so who knows what kind of doors it might open up for devs.
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are you serious?

diminishing returns with hardware are one of the few constants in this industry. the leap from ps1 to ps2 was far greater than the leap from ps2 to ps3. the the same will be true next gen
 
onQ123 said:
you know this how?

we haven't seen what a GPGPU can do inside a console yet so who knows what kind of doors it might open up for devs.
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Because gpgpus aren't about performance per dollar. They are about performance per watt.


GPGPUs are meant to address the needs of consumers who aren't concerned about getting the best gpu or cpu but a combination of the both within strict electrical limits.

In a sense this is an important feature for a console but in no way shape or form are you getting the kind of performance leap you could've had with the two units separated from each other.

The other poster is correct. This will be the smallest leap by far.
 
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