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[commedieu]

This is the kind of attitude that is just silly. I'd actually apply the "overgrown manchild" moniker to the guy sitting alone playing ultra-responsive-game-of-the-moment whilst his friends have a few drinks and a little game of Wii Sports. It reminds me of the "Stop having fun and learn to play a real instrument" comic, only replace Rock Band with Kinect and the comment with "Stop having fun, grow up and play a real game!"

But kinect can't even replicate WiiSports games. Or any Wii-Knock off. Kinect isn't a Wii-too, and doesn't appear to have any titles that will be so. The criticisms against Kinect are from a stand point of it not being an actual working device. To leave everyone bs`ing with "well i guess we have to wait and see." right, its coming out in a few weeks isn't it? Yet people have to wait and see? Wii Games are ultra responsive. Move games are ultra responsive. Kinect games can't even do 4 players... can they? Its like people want to stop any negativity towards Kinect, but it deserves every ounce of it. It was announced as a wonder device that would change the face of gaming as we all know it. Then it got dumbed down to webcam games. Anyone with any gaming background can see that the device is fluff.

Microsoft could have literally bought the eyetoy, and put 500 million behind it. Or, a webcam. OR their existing webcam in a new enclosure. Same result. Advertising advertising advertising. Kinect will sell oodles, everyone has always said that. But its not convincing anyone that its A. Working, B. Some sort of new technology. All the "little bros" and "baby cousins" on gaf would enjoy playing a webcam game of 3d pong just as much at this point. But they aren't going to have justin beiber advertising it to them to know about it. I just find Kinect is insulting the intelligence of people. Its not showing gameplay, and is showing the device as something its not.

Kinect cant even get the benefit of the doubt for working with children. You cant even make that argument laughing off the hardcore gamer for the casual gamer... or multiple people of different racial backgrounds in perfect lighting. Its such a scam at this point. Thats what rubs me the wrong way about Microsoft & gaming.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's like the anti-intellectual movement in politics, this damning drive to try to fight off 'elitism' in all its corners at the cost of, ya know, quality.

Funny, I'd say it's the opposite. An emphasis on personal bravado, choosing to cling to tradition and ignorance rather than accept change.

But I guess perspectives differ on shared experiences.

 

[SPEA]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

 

[Amir0x]

Funny, I'd say it's the opposite. An emphasis on personal bravado, choosing to cling to tradition and ignorance rather than accept change.

But I guess perspectives differ on shared experiences.

But we're the only ones not clinging to ignorance. The limitations of Kinect are facts. We're the only ones who want game controlling standards to keep being at the high they are. This isn't dog-headed rejection of evolution: it's the natural response to the belief that we should jump onboard a laggy, less efficient and less all-purpose control scheme for the sake of PARTY TITLES.

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

And to this day, the comment is STILL right. That's what makes it funny when you guys bring that post up. It was harsh, as I always am, but right on the money, as I always am.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

It's not serious at all. Shocking wanted to turn it into an insult - i don't think people who like it are 'overgrown manchildren'. I just think there's a certain dismissal of standards that IS child-like in nature that seems to be a necessity when determining the value of Kinect.

It's like the anti-intellectual movement in politics, this damning drive to try to fight off 'elitism' in all its corners at the cost of, ya know, quality.

But I don't think Kinect will be used to play the type of games that need a super standard of precision. Nobody is playing to top some leaderboard, everyone is on a the same level and just playing to have fun. I wouldn't lower my standards and cut the quality of a game I greatly enjoy playing with a controller to enjoy it with Kinect, but I can lower my standards for less precise waggle and lag when playing Wii Sports simply because I'm having a good time with it and having an experience with friends that simple wouldn't be as good with a precise and consistent none-motion controller. So unless Kinect starts impacting on hardcore experiences I'd otherwise play with a controller, it isn't a great worry for me. If Forza 4 was Kinect-only, for example, I'd be pissed.

 

[Amir0x]

But I don't think Kinect will be used to play the type of games that need a super standard of precision. Nobody is playing to top some leaderboard, everyone is on a the same level and just playing to have fun. I wouldn't lower my standards and cut the quality of a game I greatly enjoy playing with a controller to enjoy it with Kinect, but I can lower my standards for less precise waggle and lag when playing Wii Sports simply because I'm having a good time with it and having an experience with friends that simple wouldn't be as good with a precise and consistent controller experience. So unless Kinect starts impacting on hardcore experiences I'd otherwise play with a controller, it isn't a great worry for me. If Forza 4 was Kinect-only, for example, I'd be pissed.

A respectable enough position.

I wonder why it's so difficult to understand why the reaction to Kinect is so negative, though, when you know all this. It's simply not what most of us want because we have a standard that is better. You acknowledge you're willing to take steps back for this and that, which is definitely your prerogative.

 

[commedieu]

But I don't think Kinect will be used to play the type of games that need a super standard of precision. Nobody is playing to top some leaderboard, everyone is on a the same level and just playing to have fun. I wouldn't lower my standards and cut the quality of a game I greatly enjoy playing with a controller to enjoy it with Kinect, but I can lower my standards for less precise waggle and lag when playing Wii Sports simply because I'm having a good time with it and having an experience with friends that simple wouldn't be as good with a precise and consistent none-motion controller. So unless Kinect starts impacting on hardcore experiences I'd otherwise play with a controller, it isn't a great worry for me. If Forza 4 was Kinect-only, for example, I'd be pissed.

Kinect/Natals whole BS E3 showing was about it replacing the controller for all gaming & entertainment as we know it. They didn't just say for casual gamers. Since star wars force unleashed is OH so casual, as is the rest of the Pre-Rendered videos & actors playing it. it was specifically advertised/faked driving a game, and having your family do the pit stops....

Am i taking crazy pills? Or does no one else remember all of this?


You're lying to yourself if you keep trying to deny this. After its limitations & cpu were removed, all it could literally do is "HIT HERE, JUMP NOW" rinse & repeat, so now its an ingenious move by microsoft to get the masses to its product... since waggles were too hard for the #1 Best selling console world-wide. The nintendo Wii? Google is too complex as well, which is why Bing is going to wipe the floor with it.

 

[Firewire]

If Forza 4 was Kinect-only, for example, I'd be pissed.

Get ready to be pissed!

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I think overgrown manchild is a fair label, as somebody who has a pre-ordered Kinect and is very excited about it. :lol

It's a product that will provide me with a different kind of thrill than regular gaming. It won't be perfect and it will never replace a joypad or KB/M, but the idea of acting like a bit of a tosser in front of a camera and having it replicated on screen is so novel I can't see how it won't be fun.

People who are expecting more than that are setting themselves up for a disappointment I think. If you don't buy in to Microsoft hype and see it for what it is, then fun shall be had.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

But we're the only ones not clinging to ignorance. The limitations of Kinect are facts. We're the only ones who want game controlling standards to keep being at the high they are. This isn't dog-headed rejection of evolution: it's the natural response to the belief that we should jump onboard a laggy, less efficient and less all-purpose control scheme for the sake of PARTY TITLES.

Hold on a second. The argument you're pushing right now - that if we let these people control methods get their way, we're going to lose the America controlling standards we have...this is the progressive argument to you?

How is "Things shouldn't change because they're great right now" not a conservative argument? It is literally the definition of one!

I don't say it's ignorant because you aren't aware of flaws, of course there are flaws, and those flaws will keep me from ever actually buying the damn thing. It's ignorant because of the red-faced indignation at the idea of letting it go forward past the growing pains. Wii 2 or Move 2 might be better than what these are. If they're not, they'll fail, and things will right themselves for the plainly-superior regular control standards. We only got this far because the market decided what the 360 controller should look like with purchases of the two previous Halo games. If that is the absolute zenith of controllers right now and the new stuff sucks, it will roll back whether you throw a fit online or not.

The ignorance I say you cling to isn't born of you not knowing flaws as you seem to indicate. It's of you actively trying to ensure those flaws are never fixed.

 

[derFeef]

A respectable enough position.

I wonder why it's so difficult to understand why the reaction to Kinect is so negative, though, when you know all this. It's simply not what most of us want because we have a standard that is better. You acknowledge you're willing to take steps back for this and that, which is definitely your prerogative.

Take steps back? I am not taking away anything from the Kinect games. It seems like you see Kinect as a new evolution, where its obviously just a different form of controller for different games. You sometimes make it sound like Kinect is now mandatory for all games.

 

[Amir0x]

the only way to fix the flaws of Kinect is with a controller or with an advancement of 70 years so we have consumer level virtual reality devices with true tactile feedback.

I am adamantly for improvement of controls. I am simply not going to support the sub-par shit that we have now.

 

[jax (old)]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

:lol :lol

saw that awhile back and I just thought it was hilarious. Its always negative negative negative with him.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Get ready to be pissed!

I think it more likely that a new Forza game will have optional Kinect controls, and I'm fine with that as long as it doesn't impact on the rest of the game. Head tracking I'd like though!

Kinect/Natals whole BS E3 showing was about it replacing the controller for all gaming & entertainment as we know it. They didn't just say for casual gamers. Since star wars force unleashed is OH so casual, as is the rest of the Pre-Rendered videos & actors playing it. it was specifically advertised/faked driving a game, and having your family do the pit stops....
Am i taking crazy pills? Or does no one else remember all of this?

What I remember is the exact video you're talking about saying "Product Vision: Actual features and functionality may vary". That was shown at E309 as a rendered ideas video and, as far as I remember, it, alongside the Star Wars game, is the ONLY pre-rendered Kinect video ever shown. It was in no way "faked bullshit" because everyone knew coming out of that conference that that video wasn't real gameplay. In fact the games they legitimately showed on stage at E3 09 and E3 10 are the same games we're going to find in stores (minus the paint tech-demo at E3 09). I ignored your last post because I simply don't know what you're getting at. There are literally thousands of videos of people playing Kinect and showing it working. It's been demonstrated in hundreds of stores, on dozens of TV shows and it has been played by hundreds of thousands of people. Have you literally just been watching Kinect Fail videos all year?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

:lol :lol

saw that awhile back and I just thought it was hilarious. Its always negative negative negative with him.

I don't think Amir0x really believes all that garbage, he's not stupid. I see him as a definition of a forum troll, someone who likes to stir shit up and then chuckle when people get caught in his little fly trap. Somehow, I'm finding that even more repulsive and pathetic than the possibility he really means all the stupid things he writes. Especially since he is a mod.

 

[Always-honest]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

:lol :lol why did they pick THAT voice?

 

[[Nintex]]

I don't think Amir0x really believes all that garbage, he's not stupid. I see him as a definition of a forum troll, someone who likes to stir shit up and then chuckle when people get caught in his little fly trap. Somehow, I'm finding that even more repulsive and pathetic than the possibility he really means all the stupid things he writes. Especially since he is a mod.

Amir0x is totally serious and certainly not a regular forum troll, in fact he tries and buys the games that he's talking about. If I remember correctly he had some hands-on or better yet hands-off(lol lol lol) time with Kinect that made him question the device even more. I also remember a picture of NiGHTS Wii in the garbage.

 

[bishoptl]

I don't think Amir0x really believes all that garbage, he's not stupid. I see him as a definition of a forum troll, someone who likes to stir shit up and then chuckle when people get caught in his little fly trap. Somehow, I'm finding that even more repulsive and pathetic than the possibility he really means all the stupid things he writes. Especially since he is a mod.

If that's what you believe...more power to ya.

 

[ultim8p00]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

All you need to do is read that link. It tells you all you need to know about amir0x

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Amir0x is totally serious and certainly not a regular forum troll, in fact he tries and buys the games that he's talking about. If I remember correctly he had some hands-on or better yet hands-off(lol lol lol) time with Kinect that made him question the device even more. I also remember a picture of NiGHTS Wii in the garbage.

Well, that's sad then, but not as sad. Yes, he did have some hands-on time with Kinect and he hated it, but he's already been aggressively trashing it for a long time when that happened (if I remember correctly, for a while he was refusing to even give it a go) so you'll excuse my skepticism toward the objectivity of his criticism.

 

[Always-honest]

I think overgrown manchild is a fair label, as somebody who has a pre-ordered Kinect and is very excited about it. :lol

It's a product that will provide me with a different kind of thrill than regular gaming. It won't be perfect and it will never replace a joypad or KB/M, but the idea of acting like a bit of a tosser in front of a camera and having it replicated on screen is so novel I can't see how it won't be fun.

People who are expecting more than that are setting themselves up for a disappointment I think. If you don't buy in to Microsoft hype and see it for what it is, then fun shall be had.

i think i still have that inner child enthousiasm about a lot of things. "Different" is not enough though. There has to be an increase o inmmersion in at least a couple of games. I'm open to a non controller concept, but from what i've seen from Kinect, NOTHING really convinces me.

 

[TheLastJovian]

Microsoft, please just follow suit and release a peripheral similar to that of the wiimote/move; it's obvious that gaming will prove to be a struggle over control when using Kinect, rather than pure entertainment, unless of course someone finds it entertaining to see Kinect disorient itself right there and then.

 

[Boney]

but right on the money, as I always am.

that's.. uh.. I guess you should run for president for the earth.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Microsoft, please just follow suit and release a peripheral similar to that of the wiimote/move; it's obvious that gaming will prove to be a struggle over control when using Kinect, rather than pure entertainment, unless of course someone finds it entertaining to see Kinect disorient itself right there and then.

I'd really like to see just a basic nunchuk with a trigger, an analogue stick and maybe a couple of buttons. Put a couple of LED's on the front so that Kinect can track it easily and pack it in with a really solid hardcore game and set it up as a kind of launch of Kinect for the hardcore market. I understand that they believe if they launched Kinect with a controller developers would be lazy and would fall back on it, not trying to innovate with the body tracking, and it'd be harder for the casual audience to see it's uniqueness. But I don't think it'd be too bad to go back on their "No controller" ideology this time next year when all of the announced hardcore Kinect titles are due out, and every casual gamer on the planet already recognizes Kinect as no-controller so it won't do any damage.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

i think i still have that inner child enthousiasm about a lot of things. "Different" is not enough though. There has to be an increase o inmmersion in at least a couple of games. I'm open to a non controller concept, but from what i've seen from Kinect, NOTHING really convinces me.

Dance Central was the game that did it for me, personally. The second I saw that it screamed killer app and since I've started to get bored of the fake instrument games, it came about at just the right time.

Combined with EA Sports Active 2 I think the device will genuinely increase my health too. I realise that there are cheaper and better ways of exercise, but doing some via Kinect will make it entertaining, I hope.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I'd really like to see just a basic nunchuk with a trigger, an analogue stick and maybe a couple of buttons. Put a couple of LED's on the front so that Kinect can track it easily and pack it in with a really solid hardcore game and set it up as a kind of launch of Kinect for the hardcore market.

I think third parties might do that, minus the LEDs.

 

[jax (old)]

I realise that there are cheaper and better ways of exercise, but doing some via Kinect will make it entertaining, I hope.

Sports champion with 2 wands does this really really well. Very very cardio, awesome fun.

The dancing stuff is just DDR but without a mat. Not saying there's no value to kinect but what you're looking for is already here.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

It's more than DDR, though, let's be fair. When I played that it was all to do with how fast I could move my feet. That bored me. Trying to do the whole body is a lot more engaging.

I have EA Sports Active on Wii and liked it, but found holding the controllers etc a bit annoying.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

thangs n stuff

i was thinking about this too. button-based controls offer the least amount of work involved from translating your thoughts of what you want to do to those actions being applied in software. games are something you do with your brain. you're solving problems, be it by killing things or maneuvering through environments, etc. if you're not physically there doing it, or don't have the desire to physically do those things, then there's no need to simulate those actions in real life.

until we have fully functional and "guaranteed to work" brain sensors to control our games, button controls will be cutting edge. motion controls are simply a means of getting non-typical people into gaming with their brains by making it seem fun and more approachable with the concept of physical activity being translated into the digital realm on the fly. until they get an appetite for more core games and things that require accuracy, they'll be sated with these new motion controls, unfortunately.

this is from someone who only wanted/enjoyed eyetoy for that VR workout game Kinetic, and just bought a Move controller to see if certain games were easier to play compared to their horrible DS3 control schemes. (resident evil 5- which btw turns out to be a solid NO)

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

A respectable enough position.

I wonder why it's so difficult to understand why the reaction to Kinect is so negative, though, when you know all this. It's simply not what most of us want because we have a standard that is better. You acknowledge you're willing to take steps back for this and that, which is definitely your prerogative.

I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but personally, I can't understand why there is so much negativity over Kinect.

Microsoft isn't replacing the existing controller they have (which is perfection outside the broken dpad), they arent' even forcing you to buy their new peripheral.

Which is what it is. A peripheral. Used with certain game experiences, and also allows flexibility to use the dashboard if you so choose.

Much like the Guitar Hero guitar, DJ Hero turntable, Rockband Band set, Arcade sticks, GunCon 3, and every other plastic peripheral that comes out.

It's not like MS are doing what Nintendo did and say "You wan't our new console? And our stable of amazing first party titles? Well you're gonna HAVE to buy into our new control method". So the Wii hate I can understand. Nintendo never gave us a choice. If I want to play Zelda, I HAVE to use the Wii remote.

Microsoft isn't MAKING you use Kinect. It's likely you wouldn't have touched Dance Central anyway, even if it was made for the controller. I mean, did anyone kick up this much shit over the Danc Dance dance mat?

In the end, you're all hating and cracking the shits, and crying rape over a peripheral Microsoft (and to a lesser extent Sony) aren't making any of you buy. If MS starts to force that peripheral into the realm of games that never required it or suit? Different ball game.

But until Halo 4 is released to support Kinect ONLY? I don't see there as being anything genuine to complain about.

 

[Amir0x]

I hate that these threads always become about me rather than the points I'm making, but let me just quickly once again clarify the reason I am the way I am.

One, I don't hate everything. I just vastly prefer to participate in discussions where it's not one big circle jerk. Threads where people are providing critiques and that are ripe for debating are far more engrossing to me on a conversational level than the alternative, which is just glowering hype and very little critical analysis. I think in particular it is important to be very skeptical about things until they demonstrate we shouldn't be, specifically because the state of game "journalism" is so terrible (it's a hype-driven and fear-driven enterprise; they're worried of alienating big publishers/developers if they're too harsh, or big portions of a fanbase if they're too critical. This is why there's so often a 7.0~10 scale, why big budget titles by faaaar make up the bulk of 9.0+ metacritic average, and why shit like the Gamespot Kane & Lynch fiasco occurred) and there's so many fundamental issues facing the health and welfare of our hobby.

It's not that I hate everything or I troll things to troll them (I really think people don't know what a troll is at all. Every thread confirms this). I am genuinely concerned about what it means if Kinect is a mega success, considering its variable limitations for most genres. If Kinect becomes the sort of device that is properly integrated with regular controllers, that's one thing... but there's a level of focus there that's discomforting considering the device's negatives. Microsoft has a really poor lineup of hardcore games going into next year, particular when compared to the competition. I don't know if that's because they decided to really just completely shift focus or what, but they've got Gears of War 3 and that's really it.

Yes, I can come off as condescending at times. I don't think I'm better than you. I don't think my opinion is more important than yours. I do, however, feel the need to state my perspectives with all the possible strength of my convictions, because as my motto goes, it's not worth havin' an opinion unless you're willing to fight for it.

Anyway, hope that clears things up a bit.

Microsoft isn't replacing the existing controller they have (which is perfection outside the broken dpad), they arent' even forcing you to buy their new peripheral.

Which is what it is. A peripheral. Used with certain game experiences, and also allows flexibility to use the dashboard if you so choose.

It's not that simple. The focus on Kinect IS taking money away from Microsoft doing other things. Simply launching Kinect is costing Microsoft almost a billion dollars. That billion dollars could have been used to push the platform harder, to make more games with the high standard of controllers we already have.

Instead, so far, it's a laggy, inferior piece of technology that is being used largely to diversify the groan worthy mini-game/party-game genres, which is a damn shame. Yes, it's a sort of selfish view. I only buy games for myself. I don't care if my grandma plays games, I'm sorry. So, no, while they're not "replacing" their existing controller, they're giving a HUUUUGE focus to this new Kinect, which IS taking away from hardcore experiences we KNOW work better.

 

[DangerousDave]

I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but personally, I can't understand why there is so much negativity over Kinect.

Microsoft isn't replacing the existing controller they have (which is perfection outside the broken dpad), they arent' even forcing you to buy their new peripheral.

Which is what it is. A peripheral. Used with certain game experiences, and also allows flexibility to use the dashboard if you so choose.

The main problem is that, even if it's a matter of choice, a lot of people (me included), that are also 360 users, are worried because MS is spending a lot of resources in Kinect. And those resources are taken from the hardcore games.

Yes, using Kinect is a matter of choice, but if MS spend 500M $ in promoting it, instead of using this money in keeping/buying hardcore games studios, if they closed half of the studios and have the other half making Kinect games... well, is not a matter of choice anymore.

Microsoft strategy for Kinect also affects the hardcore gamers. You can see how many non-kinect hardcore games there are in the MS pipeline. Gears 3 in one year. Is obvious that, without Kinect, probably MS should have 4 or 5 first party games announced for next year.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

It's not that simple. The focus on Kinect IS taking money away from Microsoft doing other things. Simply launching Kinect is costing Microsoft almost a billion dollars. That billion dollars could have been used to push the platform harder, to make more games with the high standard of controllers we already have.

Instead, so far, it's a laggy, inferior piece of technology that is being used largely to diversify the groan worthy mini-game/party-game genres, which is a damn shame. Yes, it's a sort of selfish view. I only buy games for myself. I don't care if my grandma plays games, I'm sorry. So, no, while they're not "replacing" their existing controller, they're giving a HUUUUGE focus to this new Kinect, which IS taking away from hardcore experiences we KNOW work better.

I understand that viewpoint, but it's based on a big assumption.

That if Kinect never existed, we'd be seeing more 'traditional' games in the future than we will now that Kinect is a reality.

We can't know that now, we can only check that sort of thing in retrospect. Even then, it would be tricky to gauge.

The main problem is that, even if it's a matter of choice, a lot of people (me included), that are also 360 users, are worried because MS is spending a lot of resources in Kinect. And those resources are taken from the hardcore games.

Yes, using Kinect is a matter of choice, but if MS spend 500M $ in promoting it, instead of using this money in keeping/buying hardcore games studios, if they closed half of the studios and have the other half making Kinect games... well, is not a matter of choice anymore.

Microsoft strategy for Kinect also affects the hardcore gamers. You can see how many non-kinect hardcore games there are in the MS pipeline. Gears 3 in one year. Is obvious that, without Kinect, probably MS should have 4 or 5 first party games announced for next year.

Sorry, but it's hard to fight people using revisionist history.

Every year, we have threads on GAF about how MS has nothing in the pipeline from first parties, and yet year in year out, it doesn't come to fruition. Furthermore, I see others go on about how MS has nothing more than Gears and Halo, despite THAT not being true.

I'm confident you'll see the same amount of core games next year, as you see any other year, be they first party or not. Someone who only owns a 360 won't have trouble finding a game(s) they want next year despite Kinects release. If you own a PS3 AND a 360? Well what's the problem, if you don't find anything on 360, then buy it on PS3.

 

[Amir0x]

I understand that viewpoint, but it's based on a big assumption.

That if Kinect never existed, we'd be seeing more 'traditional' games in the future than we will now that Kinect is a reality.

We can't know that now, we can only check that sort of thing in retrospect. Even then, it would be tricky to gauge.

I think it's really a form of just denial to believe that if Microsoft didn't spend a billion dollars on Kinect that they wouldn't have been funneling at least some of that money into games we know work with games that we know would be appealing to individuals like me.

A billion dollars is just mindblowingly massive. Especially considering how Microsoft has said very recently on many occasions that they no longer want to lose money and all the restructuring going on everywhere. It says there is a real shift in their strategy.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

So, no, while they're not "replacing" their existing controller, they're giving a HUUUUGE focus to this new Kinect, which IS taking away from hardcore experiences we KNOW work better.

or shifting focus of dev teams to kinect where they could be spending more time/money on tightening up the 360 pad control schemes. (games that claim to be kinect-optional/augmented)

which is my worry with my Move purchase. will i get weak Move control schemes and solid DS3 schemes, or the other way around? i don't expect to get both- at least not from 3rd parties.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It says there is a real shift in their strategy.

Still, to make the awesome that their strategy has provided so far they need to rake in more dosh, it really hasn't been successful 'enough' as is.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I think it's really a form of just denial to believe that if Microsoft didn't spend a billion dollars on Kinect that they wouldn't have been funneling at least some of that money into games we know work with games that we know would be appealing to individuals like me.

A billion dollars is just mindblowingly massive. Especially considering how Microsoft has said very recently on many occasions that they no longer want to lose money and all the restructuring going on everywhere. It says there is a real shift in their strategy.

No doubt some of it would. But that doesn't necessarily mean we wont be seeing any of the games we want.

Two different things.

Sorry, I still just think there's too many assumptions here. Not only that, there's still the assumption here that all GAFfers like to buy 100 games a year. Which isn't true either. Hell, I'm actually PRAYING for a game drought because my wallet just can't bear the strain anymore.

I have around 5 or 6 games I want to buy over the next two months (not including Kinect and Move titles and the peripherals themselves).

I've decided I'm going to buy 2 at full price, and the others can wait. There just isnt' time or money (for most) to play them all anyway. I've gone back to inFamous to collect my remaining trophies to get my gaming fill in between Reach and Crackdown 2 sessions because I just don't want to spend that much money anymore.

 

[Amir0x]

Still, to make the awesome that their strategy has provided so far they need to rake in more dosh, it really hasn't been successful 'enough' as is.

Incidentally, it may indeed be a success in terms of a business. And as far as Microsoft is concerned, that's all they need care about. But I think we can all agree that sales success does not mean the device is automatically of a high quality. That applies to anything: blockbuster movies doesn't mean the movie is good. Triple platinum album sales don't mean the album is good. Etc etc.

In the end, whatever the necessity, as a gamer the only thing I care about is that this device makes for worse gaming, and takes money away from experiences that we know work well with the superior controllers available.

No doubt some of it would. But that doesn't necessarily mean we wont be seeing any of the games we want.

It means less of the games we want will come. And in any event, each company is different and has unique offerings independent of the other. If even one stops making less of the games they've been known for, that'd be disappointing, as each provides a unique section of the game industry with the controllers that we know work well.

 

[Zabka]

I'm excited about the possibilities of Kinect, but the launch lineup is shit. I'm not disappointed in the change of focus from Microsoft though, because I think most of their publishing output this generation has been average at best. Expansion pack games like ODST and CD2 being sold for full price kinda pissed me off too. If third party games didn't run better on the 360 I'd barely use it.

XBLA and Indie Games are awesome though, and its work in promoting downloadable console games is the best thing MS has done this generation.

My one prediction: A Dragonball Z Kinect game will be a big hit.

random as fuck. i dont like cookies. i'm not a cookie person. i like starbursts.

All hail Starburst FaveReds, destroyer of teeth!

 

[Amir0x]

what the fuck is that, like, a starburst candy bar that is only made up of red starbursts!?

 

[.la1n]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

that was actually kind of, um, embarrassing to read

 

[jax (old)]

Still, to make the awesome that their strategy has provided so far they need to rake in more dosh, it really hasn't been successful 'enough' as is.

I'm pretty sure that' enough.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

It means less of the games we want will come. And in any event, each company is different and has unique offerings independent of the other. If even one stops making less of the games they've been known for, that'd be disappointing, as each provides a unique section of the game industry with the controllers that we know work well.

Not sure what to say to that.

Like you said, you're selfish when it comes to your gaming. As am I, and as I'd say most of us are.

If there was a drought of sorts in games over the next year, I'd actually be thankful for it. I'm about to finish building a house, and planning on a child, so I can't afford the games I KNOW I'll want to buy, so for me, it would be a blessing in disguise.

So it seems we'll agree there is an impasse there, since we're both rightly interested in what benefits us as opposed to others.

 

[Zabka]

FaveReds contains Cherry. Strawberry, Fruit Punch and Watermelon Starbursts. It's for the modern man that has no time for filler flavors like Lemon and Orange.

 

[Amir0x]

FaveReds contains Cherry. Strawberry, Fruit Punch and Watermelon Starbursts. It's for the modern man that has no time for filler flavors like Lemon and Orange.

holy fuck

holy fuck

holy FUCK

god i shouldn't eat starburst it's not good for me but...it's the one guilty pleasure i still allow myself. a ephemeral shade of my time being a fatass. must buy...this...starburst

 

[DangerousDave]

Every year, we have threads on GAF about how MS has nothing in the pipeline from first parties, and yet year in year out, it doesn't come to fruition. Furthermore, I see others go on about how MS has nothing more than Gears and Halo, despite THAT not being true.

I'm confident you'll see the same amount of core games next year, as you see any other year, be they first party or not. Someone who only owns a 360 won't have trouble finding a game(s) they want next year despite Kinects release. If you own a PS3 AND a 360? Well what's the problem, if you don't find anything on 360, then buy it on PS3.

Well, I didn't had a 360 until a year ago, so I didn't pay enough attention about 360 exclusive games, until then. But the fact is that a lot of first party studios has been shutted down. A lot of third party studios that worked in exclusive with MS went multi. And a lot of other studios are with Kinect games (for example, Rare).

I commented my problems about the lineup this summer, and people said "well, is normal in MS, there is still TGS". But, still, nothing.

Games don't came from thin air. If there are no studios making games, and all the money is directed to kinect, Microsoft hardcore games won't appear suddenly.

You can't say that believing that Kinect games will take resources from hardcore games is an assumption. There is a budget, and it's going in one direction.

 

[Zeliard]

They're certainly trying to, considering the shooter demos/Forza racing demos, etc. in attempt to market it's versatility. No one in their right mind would use it for a racing game, but the marketing is certainly leaning towards "do everything with your body."

This is brand new tech and it's essentially being marketed as an innovative "use your own body as the controller" type of deal.

Therefore, it's only natural that the launch games and the rest of what we get in Kinect's infancy will be meant to market to the mainstream and put emphasis purely on notion of the lack of a physical controller, because that's meant to be the highlight of the tech and it's what the marketing is centered on.

You're not going to see many, if any, Kinect/controller hybrid games to start off because they'll want to show it in its "purest" form first, and it changes the way devs think of game design. That's also why so many of these early games are so basic - the tech is so new that many devs still don't know exactly what to do with it, so it starts with baby steps (i.e. mini-game collections and sports). That those sorts of games will also likely appeal to the mainstream makes it a solid business decision as well. We're in the safe zone right now with Kinect from a game design standpoint, where nobody wants to try anything too out there for fear of failure, but that will subside as time goes on and devs become acclimated to the device.

So I'm not going to come to any conclusions on Kinect until some devs I trust take a stab at it. Later on down the line is when we will get games that are more concerned with software than hardware. Right now it's the exact opposite.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Well, I didn't had a 360 until a year ago, so I didn't pay enough attention about 360 exclusive games, until then. But the fact is that a lot of first party studios has been shutted down. A lot of third party studios that worked in exclusive with MS went multi. And a lot of other studios are with Kinect games (for example, Rare).

I commented my problems about the lineup this summer, and people said "well, is normal in MS, there is still TGS". But, still, nothing.

Games don't came from thin air. If there are no studios making games, and all the money is directed to kinect, Microsoft hardcore games won't appear suddenly.

You can't say that believing that Kinect games will take resources from hardcore games is an assumption. There is a budget, and it's going in one direction.

Still assuming MS won't fund 'core' games.

Even if it happens less, it's still going to happen. Didn't realise there was a rule that says 'X' number of core games needs to be released per year for your console to be a success.

I mean, Nintendo is having it's best year from a 'core' gamers point of view, and yet sales are dropping in 2 out of 3 major territories. Coincidence much?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Guys. I really don't know why you question Amir0x about his knowledge of consumer electronics. He definitely knows his shit and backs up his points with such intelligence and reason.

while that was utterly hilarious...

...in reality he was on *so far* off the mark. as far as brand strength, Sony is nowhere near what they were 10 years ago. the PS3's hardware and software sales look like a misprint when compared to the mega successes that were PSOne and PS2. and he was right: loss of exclusives coupled with high initial prices and being a year late to the scene ALL contributed to Sony being the worst selling nextGen console this generation.

I don't think anyone could have suggested in 2004 that Sony's major follow-up to the PS2 would do no better than a draw with the next Xbox and be totally overshadowed in sales to the followup to the GameCube.

Looked at from the perspective of the expectations the successor to the ubiquitous PS2 had, the PS3 failed. Not unlike the N64. Both had great games, but both ultimately made it difficult for their brands in the short term. Sony was able to run away with home console gaming because of the weakness surrounding the N64 (price, "Dream Team", carts, lost developers, etc.)...and now, Sony finds itself in a similar boat (pice, lost developers and exclusives, higher development cost, late to market, etc.). I expect Sony to bounce back next gen, though. I suspect they'll be able to build up a little momentum heading into the year the next wave of consoles launch (2012? 2013?).

So yea, Amir0x might have been exaggerating a bit, but there is no doubt that the days of Sony's absolute dominance over not just the industry but the consumer mindshare has ended. There was a day when every home console was "a PlayStation" in the same way every home console used to be a NES/Famicom. Now all console names seem to carry the same weight amongst the general public. unthinkable just 6 years ago. Now it's just reality.

Anyway. I also agree with his concern about Kinect. But I've been saying throughout this thread that this is Alpha hardware to me, and if I buy it it will be with curved expectations. enjoyment with friends and family who won't be bothered with learning 15 buttons but would like to play. And come Kinect 2, Microsoft should have all the lessons learned and problems addressed...and could represent a really viable way for us to play *some* of our hardcore games. Ultimately though, we won't see a real controller revolution until Virtual Reality makes a return. headsets n' shit. that will be a glorious day.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

But the fact is that a lot of first party studios has been shutted down.

Who aside from Ensemble?

I commented my problems about the lineup this summer, and people said "well, is normal in MS, there is still TGS". But, still, nothing.

Well obviously their big push right now is Kinect, and they announced 5 exclusive Kinect games from major core developers, so that is hardly "nothing" just because you may not be interested in Kinect.

That aside, their first party studios have actually been fairly quiet. Rare is said to be working on 3 games, I can't see them all being Kinect casual stuff. 343 Industries are undoubtedly working on the next Halo. Firebird studios are working on an unannounced game, Turn 10 are working on the next Forza and Lionhead have a couple of projects on the go. The line-up for the 360 clearly isn't as strong as the PS3's for 2011, but we're not seeing the whole picture yet.