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[JaggedSac]

I have no problem with any of Amirox's criticisms. Like you say, he doesn't come across as some mindless fanboy needlessly hating. My problem is the often condescending and patronizing categories he puts people who are interested in Kinect into. I love hardcore games, I will likely never play an FPS or a racing game or anything of the sort solely with Kinect and nor do I want to. It just so happens that alongside my love for core gaming, I love to have gaming party sessions with friends and family, playing Wii Sports and Rock Band, and Kinect looks like a unique and fun addition to this.

That aside, I do see the potential to have some hardcore experiences with Kinect, be it an adventure game, a new genre, or to a compliment a controller based game. I'm not going to say that the 2011 announced core games are going to be awesome and will work really well with Kinect because I simple don't know, but I am willing to give it a chance!

Indubitably.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

So it's been confirmed Kinect doesn't recognize your legs while you're sitting?

 

[Zabka]

So it's been confirmed Kinect doesn't recognize your legs while you're sitting?

It only works if you wear special Kinect brand Sparkle Pants. They come packed with the collector's edition of Kinect Musical Chairs ($79.99).

 

[Garjon]

Not to get too off topic, but I've seen a few people in the UK say that they have played Kinect in various HMV shops - is this a nationwide thing or just for a handful of outlets?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

yeah, and all the positive hands on impressions are all wrong.

every single one. they were all apologists or shills.

Actual 'gameplay impressions' and review articles are still under embargo.

Games journalism does not exactly have a standing track record of being particularly damning in 'first look' articles or previews of upcoming titles.

I would strongly urge anyone excited for Kinect to try and track one down 'in the wild' and play it before pre-ordering.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Not to get too off topic, but I've seen a few people in the UK say that they have played Kinect in various HMV shops - is this a nationwide thing or just for a handful of outlets?

I have no idea, but it isn't exclusive to HMV. My friend played it in Argos too.

I would strongly urge anyone excited for Kinect to try and track one down 'in the wild' and play it before pre-ordering.

And if you do, keep an eye on the play conditions before damning it. My aforementioned friend who played it in Argos was in a roped off area forced to play 1 meter away from the screen, half the recommended distance. Many stores will have similar space issues and will cut corners with even minimum set-up requirements.

 

[RedStep]

No one is denying that some games are good and fun using it. The bottom line is it is an inferior controlling method that will not improve on what we already have for the vast majority of games.

If I want to play a dancing game on my 360, there are no other options, much less any better options (I don't mean DDR, actual dancing).

If I want head tracking in my new FPS (yes, it can do that), there are no other options, much less any better options.

If I want to use voice controls for the dashboard and/or applications, technically I could use my headset, but putting it on would kind of negate the point of using voice controls.

It serves a purpose, like every other specialized controller. I've never seen anybody bitching about how horrible it is when you try to play Call of Duty with your Rock Band drums.

The launch lineup is weak as shit, but you'd have to be pretty dense not to see how that additional input data could supplement the standard controller to make the experience in "core" games better than it would be otherwise.

 

[Garjon]

I have no idea, but it isn't exclusive to HMV. My friend played it in Argos too.

Oh okay, only I have yet to see a demonstration unit set up in my city. Guess I'll have to have another look around; I really want to try this thing before I pass judgement.

 

[PSGames]

No one is denying that some games are good and fun using it. The bottom line is it is an inferior controlling method that will not improve on what we already have for the vast majority of games.

Good thing your Xbox 360 controller doesn't spontaneously combust after hooking up Kinect.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

No one is denying that some games are good and fun using it. The bottom line is it is an inferior controlling method that will not improve on what we already have for the vast majority of games.

It isn't there to improve upon what a standard controller can do, it's there to offer something different. That's why I shake my head at all those games with forced Kinect controlls (I'm looking at you Joy Ride).

 

[Synless]

Good thing your Xbox 360 controller doesn't spontaneously combust after hooking up Kinect.

Good thing I didn't say anything about using a controller. I'm talking solely about Kinect. As a stand alone product it's limited to what genres it can do well. I also said those types of games could be fun and good.

 

[PSGames]

Good thing I didn't say anything about using a controller. I'm talking solely about Kinect. As a stand alone product it's limited to what genres it can do well. I also said those types of games could be fun and good.

A standard controller comes with every Xbox 360. Kinect does not replace it. So complaining that Kinect doesn't improve on what you can do with a controller is pointless.

It's purpose is to open up new experiences.

 

[Dragon]

A standard controller comes with every Xbox 360. Kinect does not replace it. So complaining that Kinect doesn't improve on what you can do with a controller is pointless.

It's purpose is to open up new experiences.

No. Its purpose is a way to gouge consumers into paying more money so MS can recoup their costs of entering this market while shoving peripherals down their customers throats. Same with Sony and Move. Open up new experiences my butt. Have you seen the launch games? What kind of new experiences are we talking about? Carbon cutouts of existing games on a rival console?

Kinect may not replace the regular controller but it takes away valuable resources that could be dedicated to other projects.

 

[PSGames]

No. Its purpose is a way to gouge consumers into paying more money so MS can recoup their costs of entering this market while shoving peripherals down their customers throats. Same with Sony and Move. Open up new experiences my butt. Have you seen the launch games? What kind of new experiences are we talking about? Carbon cutouts of existing games on a rival console?

Kinect may not replace the regular controller but it takes away valuable resources that could be dedicated to other projects.

The themes of these games may be a carbon copy but the actual gameplay experience is not. If for no other reason than you don't actually hold a controller in your hand and have to use your entire body. And please show me where I can controller my movies and music with no controller and with voice commands?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Does anyone know of a lunch Kinect title that has any kind of sword fighting ala Wii Sports Resort?

There's kendo in Deca Sports Freedom (Sports Island Freedom in Europe), but I'm not sure you really want to play that :lol

So it's been confirmed Kinect doesn't recognize your legs while you're sitting?

Vaguely. It's only been said that Kinect's basic skeletal system won't work as intended for the lower half of your body while sitting in certain positions. No specifics are known.

 

[Amir0x]

I have no problem with any of Amirox's criticisms. Like you say, he doesn't come across as some mindless fanboy needlessly hating. My problem is the often condescending and patronizing categories he puts people who are interested in Kinect into. I love hardcore games, I will likely never play an FPS or a racing game or anything of the sort solely with Kinect and nor do I want to. It just so happens that alongside my love for core gaming, I love to have gaming party sessions with friends and family, playing Wii Sports and Rock Band, and Kinect looks like a unique and fun addition to this.

That aside, I do see the potential to have some hardcore experiences with Kinect, be it an adventure game, a new genre, or to a compliment a controller based game. I'm not going to say that the 2011 announced core games are going to be awesome and will work really well with Kinect because I simple don't know, but I am willing to give it a chance!

I already made an allowance for that:

Or you're one of the very very few people on GAF who have magically been longing for a day when the industry finally recognizes how absolutely terrible it was that we didn't have more dance games and mini-game compilations!

If you actually were longing for the day the industry could have more of this, then that's fine. But you should not expect a hardcore gaming forum to give two fucks about a products whose primary - and essentially only - strengths lie in those genres.

Side note:

And if you do, keep an eye on the play conditions before damning it. My aforementioned friend who played it in Argos was in a roped off area forced to play 1 meter away from the screen, half the recommended distance. Many stores will have similar space issues and will cut corners with even minimum set-up requirements.

Reason #209 why motion gaming future is not ready: who the hell wants to fucking worry if they got enough floor real estate for the device to function properly?

 

[Mr_Zombie]

No. Its purpose is a way to gouge consumers into paying more money so MS can recoup their costs of entering this market while shoving peripherals down their customers throats. Same with Sony and Move. Open up new experiences my butt.

So I must say that a lot of work and research went into this "shoving peripherals down customers throats". Like it or not, Kinect is a really impressive piece of software; the games (at least those launch titles) though, not so much.

 

[seady]

Even when you can navigate menu while sitting, I still don't see how waving your arms - without motion feedback - to just select an item, is easier than pressing a button on the controller.

 

[AndyD]

The themes of these games may be a carbon copy but the actual gameplay experience is not. If for no other reason than you don't actually hold a controller in your hand and have to use your entire body. And please show me where I can controller my movies and music with no controller and with voice commands?

That's not games. A lot of people care about the games, "core" games, not dancing and party minigames.

No one is saying voice control is not possible, only that its not a game. And they want MS to put money and focus into funding games for gamers, not voice control and dancing games.

And on the voice control bit, no one is saying it could not have been done before with the headset. So it's not a unique feature of Kinect hardware in that respect even.

 

[venne]

Even when you can navigate menu while sitting, I still don't see how waving your arms - without motion feedback - to just select an item, is easier than pressing a button on the controller.

Voice control will be much easier.

This will allow you to pimp the technology to your friends and family. Think of it like Coverflow on an iPhone or Touch. No one uses it day to day, but it was the first thing people showed off to those that have never seen one.

 

[jax (old)]

I now want Kinect to succeed.

Hope they fix the issues and it becomes a legitimate way to interact with your video games.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

No one is denying that some games are good and fun using it. The bottom line is it is an inferior controlling method that will not improve on what we already have for the vast majority of games.

"Horrendous lag" as an across the board statement strikes me as a denial that "some games are good and fun using it" but that's really the only issue I have with his statement. I know he played it at NYCC.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Even when you can navigate menu while sitting, I still don't see how waving your arms - without motion feedback - to just select an item, is easier than pressing a button on the controller.

It's not necessarily easier or quicker for an advanced user, just like writing commands in a UNIX terminal can be quicker and more productive than using the GUI, but it might (or might not, depending on actual implementation) be more intuitive for a lot of people. And of course, using voice commands could be the easiest and quickest way of doing a number of things.

 

[Psychotext]

I'll give you this Amir0x, when you hate something, you REALLY hate something.

 

[seady]

Voice control will be much easier.

This will allow you to pimp the technology to your friends and family. Think of it like Coverflow on an iPhone or Touch. No one uses it day to day, but it was the first thing people showed off to those that have never seen one.

Serious Question:

The voice recognition functionality on phones have existed many years ago (pre-smartphone era). You can just say your friend's name and it will dial instantly, but how many of you actually use it? Just wondering.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

If you actually were longing for the day the industry could have more of this, then that's fine. But you should not expect a hardcore gaming forum to give two fucks about a products whose primary - and essentially only - strengths lie in those genres.

I wouldn't say I am longing for anything really, I just take it as it comes. If a game looks fun, it looks fun. Kinect looks like it could be fun. And I don't expect most of GAF to like the majority of the announced games, or even the concept of Kinect, and if they articulate why like you can then that is fair enough. As you say, it's to be expected on such a core based forum, but when it's the same people saying the same things, largely with little real substance, in every single Kinect thread whether positive or negative it starts to get old. It sours any real potential discussion which, admittedly, has been a bit more prominent as we're approaching the launch.

And on the voice control bit, no one is saying it could not have been done before with the headset. So it's not a unique feature of Kinect hardware in that respect even.

Voice control is software, not hardware. Just because every 360 comes with a headset doesn't mean that every 360 comes with voice control. It comes with the potential to add voice control which, for most developers, would be a really lengthy task to implement which is why I can only recall it being used in one title, Endwar. Every Kinect comes with voice control just waiting to be used by any developer. That is the difference.

 

[AndyD]

Serious Question:

The voice recognition functionality on phones have existed many years ago (pre-smartphone era). You can just say your friend's name and it will dial instantly, but how many of you actually use it? Just wondering.

Now that its good on smartphones, people use it all the time.

And as Live gets more and more cluttered, I imagine people will love to be able to just say "Play Trine" instead of scroll through ads and dropdowns and menus.

Not possible today, or at launch though, so your point stands. Potential is there, but its not yet realized.

 

[Amir0x]

I'll give you this Amir0x, when you hate something, you REALLY hate something.

I just don't have patience for regression in controls. We've already got a standard, and I don't know about you, but I don't give a living fuck about party.dancing games and mini-game compilations.

It is conceivable that in some abstract way it'll "improve" the already shallow experiences contained in those genres. If that's the victory people are looking for in their new control devices, then by all means... let the gimmickry party continue.

But the reality is, this really IS a hardcore gaming forum. We've got a range of devices that frankly are just impossibly superior to what Kinect can offer our hardcore genres. In fact, it's even most inferior for most casual genres too. That's just the facts of life. I'm not fucking five years old. I'm not an overgrown manchild. I have no desire to exchange precision, accuracy and efficiency for some sweeping gestural laggy bullshit so I can relive old fever dreams of dressing in tights and being Link.

I want controls that work. i want tactile feedback. I want the minimum amount of lag. Yes, I want buttons - at least until full immersive virtual reality with tactile feedback is available (which won't be in our life times at the consumer level).

I don't want to worry that I'm standing far enough back for the dumb fucking thing to recognize me. I don't want to get frustrated because it's not correctly recognizing my jumps, unlike with a button which is always, 100% reliable. I don't want to fucking bumble around like a retard while I wait for my on-screen avatar to catch up.

I don't think these are extreme demands. It's not FOR me, it's not FOR most of us. But if you are one of those people who genuinely thought we had a dearth of party games, then I'm sure Kinect offers something for you.

For everyone else, taking such a big step backward for controls is discouraging.

 

[Dunlop]

But the reality is, this really IS a hardcore gaming forum.

NeoGAF is the preeminent community for video game news and discussion, serving as a nexus between industry, media, and consumer. NeoGAF.com receives nearly 1,000,000 unique visitors per month, making us one of the most visited communities on the internet.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377526

You keep saying this, I missed the part where we went all right wing all of a sudden. We should lock up the Iphone, Rockband and Wiifit OT's stat

We've got a range of devices that frankly are just impossibly superior to what Kinect can offer our hardcore genres.

Kow could you possibly know this when the technology is in it's infancy?

Kinect is not going to replace the gamepad anytime soon (by your logic however FPS should never be on a console as the KB/Mouse is unarguably superior for precision).

I resisted for years using a mouse when windows 3.1 came out...guess what?

I'm not even saying your points are wrong, they are just exagerated

 

[PSGames]

I just don't have patience for regression in controls. We've already got a standard, and I don't know about you, but I don't give a living fuck about party.dancing games and mini-game compilations.

It is conceivable that in some abstract way it'll "improve" the already shallow experiences contained in those genres. If that's the victory people are looking for in their new control devices, then by all means... let the gimmickry party continue.

But the reality is, this really IS a hardcore gaming forum. We've got a range of devices that frankly are just impossibly superior to what Kinect can offer our hardcore genres. In fact, it's even most inferior for most casual genres too. That's just the facts of life. I'm not fucking five years old. I'm not an overgrown manchild. I have no desire to exchange precision, accuracy and efficiency for some sweeping gestural laggy bullshit so I can relive old fever dreams of dressing in tights and being Link.

I want controls that work. i want tactile feedback. I want the minimum amount of lag. Yes, I want buttons - at least until full immersive virtual reality with tactile feedback is available (which won't be in our life times at the consumer level).

I don't want to worry that I'm standing far enough back for the dumb fucking thing to recognize me. I don't want to get frustrated because it's not correctly recognizing my jumps, unlike with a button which is always, 100% reliable. I don't want to fucking bumble around like a retard while I wait for my on-screen avatar to catch up.

I don't think these are extreme demands. It's not FOR me, it's not FOR most of us. But if you are one of those people who genuinely thought we had a dearth of party games, then I'm sure Kinect offers something for you.For everyone else, taking such a big step backward for controls is discouraging.

Yeah this is a hardcore gaming forum but I for one love to boot up an XBLA game or Rockband inbetween hardcore gaming sessions. A hardcore gamer can't enjoy simpler forms of entertainment as well? That doesn't make me an overgrown manchild or fucking 5 years old. I enjoy variety when it comes to my gaming experiences. Why do you have such a huge problem with that?

 

[Amir0x]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377526

You keep saying this, I missed the part where we went all right wing all of a sudden. We should lock up the Iphone, Rockband and Wiifit OT's stat

That's not what I meant. "Hardcore" here is meant to infer that we're a forum of individuals highly educated on the gaming world. We're able to make the distinctions between the positives and negatives because we've read the articles and seen what the technology is capable of. And yes, it's true, the vast majority of us are not into mini-game compilations and dance games. That's just the reality. It doesn't mean it's not discussed here (or that it shouldn't be discussed) it just means it's not of interest to MOST of the forum. After many years here, this much is true.

Sidenote: Rockband/Guitar Hero is in the hazy middle ground between hardcore and casual imo. Mastering the game via expert takes an extraordinary amount of skill, particularly as the controllers get more and more complex. With the keyboard being added, the barrier to entry only gets higher.

Kow could you possibly know this when the technology is in it's infancy?

Because there are certain inherent limitations to the device that no amount of possible time spent developing for it will ever change? It's not rocket science.

 

[tfur]

Actual 'gameplay impressions' and review articles are still under embargo.

Games journalism does not exactly have a standing track record of being particularly damning in 'first look' articles or previews of upcoming titles.

I would strongly urge anyone excited for Kinect to try and track one down 'in the wild' and play it before pre-ordering.

Yeah, games journalism for the most part is a joke. How many 1up "journalists" used their job as nothing more than pre employment screening for Microsoft? What have other journalists done and do?

Also, in regards to Dance Central, I never knew there were so many dancers on GAF.

I think with the lag and molasses flailing, Kinect would make a great underwater swimming/drowning game.

 

[Philthy]

If I want head tracking in my new FPS (yes, it can do that), there are no other options, much less any better options.

If I want to use voice controls for the dashboard and/or applications, technically I could use my headset, but putting it on would kind of negate the point of using voice controls.

Head tracking for what? Looking left at the HDTV you have sitting over in your dining room, and looking right to the HDTV you have sitting off in your bathroom? Do you mean tilting your head to peak around corners that is typically done automatically mapped to a button depending what side of a wall your on and works really well?

Voice controls, you still need to turn the XBox on to begin with, so you'll have the headset nearby anyways.

The dancing thing is the only thing I see going for it, and most people aren't going to be banging around into their ottomans and coffee tables.

 

[DeadGzuz]

Also, in regards to Dance Central, I never knew there were so many dancers on GAF.

Ya, as soon as the no-hardcore games backlash began, suddenly half of Gaf are aspiring hip-hop dancers and they also have kids and nieces/nephews who want Kinectaminals.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Head tracking for what? Looking left at the HDTV you have sitting over in your dining room, and looking right to the HDTV you have sitting off in your bathroom? Do you mean tilting your head to peak around corners that is typically done automatically mapped to a button depending what side of a wall your on and works really well?

Watch this and this.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm not fucking five years old. I'm not an overgrown manchild.

I'm usually only used to disagreeing with flyingpiranha in Kinect threads.

Not that I disagree that Kinect puts more limiters than it does options, mind.

 

[Amir0x]

so you are an overgrown manchild. That's cool bro, you're not the first on GAF

 

[Firewire]

So it can recognize the upper torso, yay!

At least it can recognize something without MS having to fake it.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

so you are an overgrown manchild. That's cool bro, you're not the first on GAF

"I know you are, but what am I?" Really? That's almost adorable.

Regardless, I did agree with the letter of your basic point, but likely not the spirit. Kinect as a technology is not ready if there are so many qualifiers to how and when it can be used.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I'm betting that a product like this will be released for kinect in about a year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_7BzUED39A&feature=player_embedded

to supplement all the things kinect can't manage.

 

[Amir0x]

"I know you are, but what am I?" Really? That's almost adorable.

Only thing that made sense to me considering my testicles have descended.

Regardless, I did agree with the letter of your basic point, but likely not the spirit. Kinect as a technology is not ready if there are so many qualifiers to how and when it can be used.

Just for the record, my complaints about that issue extend to Motion+ and Move.

 

[Mudkips]

We're not here to talk about how much fun my nephews and nieces will have with it. They'll have just as much fun ... eating a oatmeal cookie, and it won't cost me $150 bucks...

In 2007, a rare William Crawford and Sons cookie tin from the 1920s was sold at a London auction. The tin, originally sold for just over $150, was auctioned off for $32,000. The tin was remarkable for two features—its shape, a toy car with electric lights, and the fact that it still contains its original contents.

Delicious.

 

[Amir0x]

random as fuck. i dont like cookies. i'm not a cookie person. i like starbursts.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

so you are an overgrown manchild. That's cool bro, you're not the first on GAF

This is the kind of attitude that is just silly. I'd actually apply the "overgrown manchild" moniker to the guy sitting alone playing ultra-responsive-game-of-the-moment whilst his friends have a few drinks and a little game of Wii Sports. It reminds me of the "Stop having fun and learn to play a real instrument" comic, only replace Rock Band with Kinect and the comment with "Stop having fun, grow up and play a real game!"

 

[Firewire]

Only thing that made sense to me considering my testicles have descended.

:lol

 

[Amir0x]

This is the kind of attitude that is just silly. I'd actually apply the "overgrown manchild" moniker to the guy sitting alone playing ultra-responsive-game-of-the-moment whilst his friends have a few drinks and a little game of Wii Sports. It reminds me of the "Stop having fun and learn to play a real instrument" comic, only replace Rock Band with Kinect and the comment with "Stop having fun, grow up and play a real game!"

It's not serious at all. Shocking wanted to turn it into an insult - i don't think people who like it are 'overgrown manchildren'. I just think there's a certain dismissal of standards that IS child-like in nature that seems to be a necessity when determining the value of Kinect.

It's like the anti-intellectual movement in politics, this damning drive to try to fight off 'elitism' in all its corners at the cost of, ya know, quality.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Only thing that made sense to me considering my testicles have descended.

Good for them, if they're stuck there they should try and get as far away as possible.

 

[soco]

random as fuck. i dont like cookies. i'm not a cookie person. i like starbursts.

what about cookies with starburst in them?

 

[Amir0x]

what about cookies with starburst in them?

what the sick shit is this

no such cookie exists. i wont believe it

 

[PSGames]

so you are an overgrown manchild. That's cool bro, you're not the first on GAF

This is funny given how you championed Princess and The Frog a while back.

There are some people who would refuse to watch a movie like that because they aren't "fucking 5 years old" and they would sound just as ridiculous as you do right now.