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Kotaku: Installing Xbox One games takes way too long; comparison
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
cormack12
Gold Member
The way Cerny described the PlayGo system made me think it just streams from disc in the first instance. When data on the bluray is accessed it is thrown over to HDD then.
The secret sauce appears to be the zlib compression at this moment (disc games only). Interview above is taken from gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1
The secret sauce appears to be the zlib compression at this moment (disc games only). Interview above is taken from gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?print=1
Petrae
Member
Installs were one of my pet peeves from the last generation and another reason I'm steering clear of this new generation.
I get the references to tape drives and disc drives from early PCs, but then we moved to carts-- which were no-wait experiences-- and discs (CD/DVD/GD), which took a bit of access time here and there but didn't require blocks of idle time like installs/patches do today for many people.
PS3 was the worst offender. Install, patch, then play... and then maybe another patch down the road (unless, until recently, you paid Sony for the privilege of automatic all downloading & installing patches from standby). Lots of waiting.
Then comes management of your hard drive space, which limited my PS3 game-buying habits and forced tough decisions as to what to delete to make room and would likely be an issue (without spending more cash on an extra/alternative HDD) again this gen.
Not for me.
I'm not sure what you're saying with this. These comparisons still serve a purpose for many people.
Sure, everyone is able to "deal with it" and distract themselves for a while during the installation period, but why would you want to? It's not a life-or-death situation obviously, but it's a distinct difference in the user experience.
Usually when I insert a disc, i'm inserting it with the specific purpose to play the game right then and there.
Being forced to wait for X minutes before playing is simply a negative experience for any gaming device. The less time between impulsively deciding to play a game and actually playing it, the better. Sony was the only one putting actual thought about the user experience in this situation, it seems like.
This PlayGo system is something that vastly improves the end-user experience. This is not debatable. It's okay for people to be positive about it, you know.
Your rants about "I want the data to be 100% installed before I even dare to touch the play-button" sounds like an old man yelling at a cloud to me, and is probably not at all representative of even the tiniest percentage of the actual userbase.
This system is going to be a very welcome addition to anyone looking to play games on PS4.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yeah as a PS3 owner I also couldn't stop hearing from the media about how long installs would take and updates and blah blah blah. Well now it's the Xb1's turn
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Remember when 360 was install-free and PS3 users needed a sandwich? Good times.
SCE employee
cormack12
Gold Member
That proper made me LOL.
I had more issues with deleting on the PS3 to be honest. Especially games that had 2GB+ installs. Just hung for ages on deleting... no progress bar or anything. Cancel then you have corrupted data and could work out the size of it.
Nightmare.
feint_ruled
Member
ZLib is so incredibly well known for so long it can't be any sort of secret sauce. More like blindingly obvious sauce. I guess the difference is that this gen games don't have to run off the disc AT ALL, so can be stored compressed even there.
You do have to find it a lil funny that MS and Sony did a 180 from their last consoles...
Like it was already stated....seems like Sony learned and MS didnt.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The GoW games mask loading by making you run Kratos through random long hallways for no apparent reason.
The hallways are there so the game can load the next area while you run through them.
cormack12
Gold Member
Yeah it;s old tech. I'm wondering though if the PS4 might have a dedicated chip for this? That quote from Cerny implies that the game does run from disc though. Direct from blu ray @ 22-24MBps and when the game accesses the file for the first time from the blu ray it then copies it to the HDD for future use.
Any idle time during the game after this then a 'trickel' install is activated.
cormack12
Gold Member
Yes but the full quote is:
"...as the game accesses the Blu-ray disc, is we take any data that was accessed and we put it on the hard drive. And if then if there is idle time, we go ahead and copy the remaining data to the hard drive..."
So let's simplify it. You start Shadowfall. It loads data from disc that draws the menu and copies it to the HDD at the same time. It proceeds to do the same for the first level in campaign mode. You quit and start again, it now uses the copies of the files on the HDD and during the idle time copies over unaccessed files thus far.
Caveated at the end of my post with: "Any idle time during the game after this then a 'trickle' install is activated."
Activated is probably the wrong word. Sub for 'in progress'
No. Discs aren't being accessed 100% of the time even when you play the thing for the first time. There will always be idle times.
cormack12
Gold Member
So the point you're making is that installing unaccessed data and loading requested data can be parallel streams (i.e. happen in tandem)? Have I got that right?
GANGSTERKILLER
Member
Next-gen speed
This GIF will be even more epic if you change Kaz with Yoshida and Mattrick with Spencer or Penello.
Can you do that DemonNite? ;-)
They matter. Not a HUGE deal to be sure, but they do matter.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It matters a great deal. Nothing worse than sitting down to enjoy a game only to be met with lengthy install times.
Hated it PS3, will undoubtedly hate it even more here...
wish I could but dont have time today... off to a SCEE launch party in an hour!
Of course they matter... it's an obstacle that's become standard in the industry (minus Wii U). So it's part of the experience. And Xbone makes it a bad one.
I know I always sigh in disappointment and roll my eyes when I pop in a PS3 game all excited, only to be met with an install screen.
Is it a deal breaker? For most, probably not. But for some it may be the push they need to pick the $100 cheaper console. You never know.
And, I think we can all agree that we'd rather have it faster than slower. Regardless of preference otherwise.
feint_ruled
Member
Yes, and those "mash O to open door" sequences are actually loading too, I believe. But the techniques used are immaterial, as long as they don't obviously screw up the game flow. Which IMHO does not happen in GoW.
Especially considering the amount of hype and anticipation that people had going into this generation with instant gaming and standby. Now people are downplaying this? I'm not buying it as objective criticism.
GANGSTERKILLER
Member
wish I could but dont have time today... off to a SCEE launch party in an hour!
No problem. Have fun at that launch party!
Insane Metal
Gold Member
wish I could but dont have time today... off to a SCEE launch party in an hour!
So exciting!
SlaughterX
Banned
Yeah it does take a while to fully install a game, and I was surprised by the 6GB update for Forza 5, but I could play the game almost immediately upon inserting the disc, and it continued to install while I was playing the game so it wasn't a big deal.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yes, MS was just as focused on games as Sony, and this is the result. This certainly makes them seem less incompetent than they might appe....oh wait.
Deus Ex Machina
Member
Last night I had a couple of hours free to play. I put NBA2k14 in for the first time and it took one hour and 12 minutes to install. After that I took another five minutes registering my online info. By that point I didn't even have time to play a full online game, so I quit and watched Twitch for half an hour instead.
Terrible experience.
Whats wild is after Metal Gear Solid 4 for the PS3, Sony went with a here n there approach with having games install. Some did, some didnt or didnt install as much as MG.
There was even an update to MG with the option to install the entire game all at once. So even with MG, it didnt install the game all the way when it first came out.
There was even an update to MG with the option to install the entire game all at once. So even with MG, it didnt install the game all the way when it first came out.
that'd be LONG piss
Maybe he meant take a shit.
Mass Effect
Member
Yeah it matters. If you only have an hour or so to play that hot new game you just bought and it takes 15 minutes to install, that's a pretty big chunk of time wasted.
I understand that, but we really should have gone past the need for that, technology needs to hurry up. Or at least do a seamless install while downloading like Steam does.
Or bring back cartridges.
jordan0386
Member
What about the next few months of ownership?
Can you confirm ALL BD PS4 discs will eventually copy to the HDD / SSD if "left to their own devices" (ie: put disc in, leave console alone for a long time - done, 100% install?)
Who says my desires represent the majority?
I'm in the minority as default, I'm installing an SSD.
I just want to know Sony has designed it properly, so that people who couldn't give a shit are satisfied and those who do give a shit are satisfied.
My intention is that every PS4 game I own is only ever read by the BD once, EVER. Copied to local HDD, I'll fire it up when it's finished and not a moment sooner.
Dark Octave
Banned
And for the other 9 minutes?
I was expecting Shadowfall to take at least 10 to 20 minutes. I had to check my hdd space to make sure it actually installed the game correctly becuase it was so quick.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
This. That is what was great about the 360, playing right away.
Earthanoid
Member
As a PS3 owner, I'd say that no, it doesn't really matter in the long run; having installs when the X360 didn't clearly didn't destroy the PS3's chances. But also as a PS3 owner, I'd say that long install times suck, especially as someone who has limited play time.
I see this more as another "what was MS thinking?" moment. Installs and updates were a consistent complaint about the PS3, and the X360 was consistently held as a system that handled installs and updates in a good way. The state of things with the XBone make it seem like MS weren't really thinking about this stuff, or had the attitude of "Sony will have installs too so who cares if we do too" without expecting Sony to implement this background install capability.
But XBone owners will get used to it; millions of PS3 owners learned to accept it. They just need to be prepared for jabs on it until it gets fixed or the next-next gen arrives.
ps3 owner here, I can tell you that it's a major turn off and why it's mostly a bluray player for most of its life.
Same for psp, nothing worse than launching a game and being met with half an hour of install because the system suck so much it have to install data from the disc.
Yeah never again.
Same for psp, nothing worse than launching a game and being met with half an hour of install because the system suck so much it have to install data from the disc.
Yeah never again.
Zombie James
Banned
Shit, those are some massive time differences.
Yes? How quickly you can pop in a disc and start playing does matter (can't count how many times I've seen this mentioned as a huge issue on some PS3 games like DMC4 and MGS4).
Yes? How quickly you can pop in a disc and start playing does matter (can't count how many times I've seen this mentioned as a huge issue on some PS3 games like DMC4 and MGS4).
uncledonnie
Banned
Of course they do. They're not some kind of deal breaker but certainly I'd prefer to be playing a new game over waiting around. PS4 has the clear advantage here.
Do the install times matter?
For those that really want an Xbox One, no. Like it was mentioned, millions of PS3 owners didnt mind, maybe a few here n there. I am one that didnt mind...and I have both a PS3 and 360. Every console since I can remember had pros n cons. No console was/is perfect. Install times was a con for PS3, pro for 360.
Now its just reversed, thats all. But its still a pro/con bullet. I still wanna pick up an Xbox One..still wanted one even before the policy reversals. So in the end lots of things dont really matter if you really want something.
Many ppl jumped to AT&T when the iPhone was exclusive there. PS3 had inferior wireless hardware/online experience vs the 360, didnt really matter to many. PS+ IMO is the better value, doesnt really matter to many. All I will say is I might get an XBO just for exclusives....multi platform games might be PS4 only for me. Like with Madden on the orig Xbox vs the PS2, switching players was easier on the PS platform. The extra shoulder buttons made picking receivers easier on the PS platform.
Pros n cons will always exists for everything.
For those that really want an Xbox One, no. Like it was mentioned, millions of PS3 owners didnt mind, maybe a few here n there. I am one that didnt mind...and I have both a PS3 and 360. Every console since I can remember had pros n cons. No console was/is perfect. Install times was a con for PS3, pro for 360.
Now its just reversed, thats all. But its still a pro/con bullet. I still wanna pick up an Xbox One..still wanted one even before the policy reversals. So in the end lots of things dont really matter if you really want something.
Many ppl jumped to AT&T when the iPhone was exclusive there. PS3 had inferior wireless hardware/online experience vs the 360, didnt really matter to many. PS+ IMO is the better value, doesnt really matter to many. All I will say is I might get an XBO just for exclusives....multi platform games might be PS4 only for me. Like with Madden on the orig Xbox vs the PS2, switching players was easier on the PS platform. The extra shoulder buttons made picking receivers easier on the PS platform.
Pros n cons will always exists for everything.
Its going to be a long generation
Neuromancer
Member
So, does anyone have any idea why it takes so long? Other than being forced to wait for the title updates, which doesn't affect offline loading.
Hazelhurst
Member
I was playing Killzone SF (blu-ray) multiplayer yesterday, while the LEGO Marvel demo downloaded and installed in the background. I even got a notification when it finished, while playing Killzone. There was no interruption in my gameplay. It was all silent and unobtrusive.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
PlayGo.
Hahahaha the elevator music perfect. My god this is taking ages!