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[jim-jam bongs]

No, it is not. It is the future of console gaming, and always was. He is butthurt that his console games look more and more like shit compared to games made for PC first. Thus, he wants to turn a PC into another console.

I don't even think it's this to be honest, I believe that the guy plays PC games but just has the stress threshold of a 3 year old.

DirectX is not the only way to standardize something. And DX is very deliberately removed from the hardware.
What is requested is a standard interface to the raw hardware itself.
You can call it access as well, that doesn't change his point. It would be purely a semantics argument.

Out of curiosity, do you know why current APIs are so far removed from the hardware?

 

[Durante]

Why does RAGE look as god on consoles as on PC?

Because it's made for consoles. (Also, I'd argue it doesn't. Image quality is huge for me)

The difference between RAGE and Hard Reset (PC only game) is not as visible as the difference between a PS2 and a PS3 game even though the hardware is equally outdated to each other as current consoles are to PC.

Budget.

 

[mxgt]

How could a dual core laptop (in 2011) that costs 3000 fucking dollars possibly be the future of anything

 

[BurritoBushido]

I'm glad someone finally pointed it out. PC Gaming = Farmville 90% of the time

 

[greycolumbus]

it's not, we live in a fingerless mitten society and pc gaming is now something of a technology counter culture, a rebuttal to the endless mass market drive for reduced complexity at the expense of functionality. it's a hobbyist pursuit that through its idiosyncratic virtues, has not only sustained itself through the slings and arrows of multi generational console war, but began a spearheading resurgence right at the time that kotakus of this world wrote it off for dead. now it is again at the vanguard of the industry in every sense, while consoles are only becoming more conservative in their attempts to smear their singular branding across as many demographics as possible.

at a time when anyone with the slightest insight is aware of the gouging, sniping, depressing toilet bowl that the console market has become, people are seeking out pc gaming to rekindle their optimism and sense of adventure.

How beautiful.

 

[Durante]

How could a dual core laptop (in 2011) that costs 3000 fucking dollars possibly be the future of anything

A dual-core laptop with a mid-range GPU. That weighs over 3 kg.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

A dual-core laptop with a mid-range GPU. That weighs over 3 kg.

STANDARDS

 

[Chinner]

I don't mean this to strife discussion, but how can anyone respond to this with an emotional response other than apathy? This is Kotaku, and their coverage is bought. Although shamefully there is no evidence of it, the Razor article was an advertorial, and I wouldn't be surprised if the MW3 'leak' was just a publicity stunt as well.

 

[Sethos]

DirectX is not the only way to standardize something. And DX is very deliberately removed from the hardware.
What is requested is a standard interface to the raw hardware itself.
You can call it access as well, that doesn't change his point. It would be purely a semantics argument.

Doesn't change anything, limited access through DirectX, full access through a different kind of interface - It's currently a standard that is forced on everyone, hardware and game developers alike thus it's a standard. What you are trying to get at isn't standardization, that's just improving the current standard.

 

[ghst]

That is the real point he is trying to make. The razer blade tries to do this, but yes at 3K not a lot of people are going to bite. He is just pointing out that this is the future of pc gaming.

You may not agree, fine. However, from what I've seen some very heavy hitters in PC game development are asking/wishing for this. They just aren't using the same provocative language.

the razer blade tries to do this by, what, including a set specification in their laptop? like every other laptop ever made? how exactly is this creating standardization? should the 550m be the standard gpu now razer have put one in their opulence box, despite being woefully underpowered for the price? how about that unique proprietary lcd hotkey setup - is that another facet of standardization that all pc gaming should revolve around? what if i want a razor spec laptop but don't have quite so much need for mobility but need a larger screen and thus more VRAM, what if i don't want a laptop atall?

maybe you've got well thought out answers to all this, or maybe you just read some airy sentiments that were roughly in line with your ankle deep knowledge and IMHOs on the subject and signed off on it.

 

[oneils]

Ok, you guys don't agree that the razer blade standardizes anything. Fine. I didn't understand that that was your objection. I thought you disagreed that standardisation will be the future.

Do you disagree with that point as well? Or are we just going to keep going on with more and more powerful hardware ad-infinitum?

 

[FieryBalrog]

Budget.

Now we're getting somewhere. PC exclusives aren't exactly going to get huge budgets because of the limited audience.

And one reason for the limited audience is the hardware being pretty esoteric for the mass-market consumer, who for all the disdain directed towards him by ghst/other posters, is necessary for the big-budget PC game to make any sense.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

I'm not giving any attention to the Kotaku writer who thinks he deserves some. His agenda is too damn obvious.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think anyone is defending the Razor laptop. Rather I think people are trying to extract the modicum of sense from the man's post to have a larger discussion about standardization because everyone knows his gushing orgasms about the Razor laptop are utterly embarassing.

That was basically the genesis of this piece. Guy writes a hilariously sycophantic article lauding the Razer laptop, and this is his indignant response to being laughed out of the room.

 

[benny_a]

Because it's made for consoles. (Also, I'd argue it doesn't. Image quality is huge for me)

All I'm reading here is that you're alleging that John Carmack who is known to the enthusiast press as the most honest developer is straight up lying when he recounts his problems with getting RAGE to run at 60FPS on PC because of driver issues.
(He had to get Nvidia and AMD to agree to a hack to make his game run at 60 FPS according to his keynote.)

Portal 2 which is coming from Gabe Newell's team that is self-described a lover of the PC platform looks a little bit better on PC than it does on PS3 because of 8xAA and 16xAF?
Is that really what the PC hardware is capable of?

We're comparing hardware from 2006 and 2011 and we get similar results. At some point you have to accept what the developers themselves say regarding this.

Doesn't change anything, limited access through DirectX, full access through a different kind of interface - It's currently a standard that is forced on everyone, hardware and game developers alike thus it's a standard. What you are trying to get at isn't standardization, that's just improving the current standard.

What Carmack wants is to bypass DirectX. I don't think that can be considered improving the DirectX standard. Unless you're being cynical that bypassing a standard is improving said standard.

 

[Emitan]

Portal 2 looks fine. What's more impressive is how well it looks on older systems while still running well. Not every game is trying to be Battlefield 3.

 

[Always-honest]

Well yes, a lot of pc guys are acting ridiculous. Jesus just look at the battlefield thread

 

[Aselith]

He has a point. Anyone getting into PC gaming gets pretty overwhelmed by the nonsensical array of hardware. I've been a PC gamer for years- never a techhead type though- and looking at a list of modern videocards makes me want to curl up into a ball and suck my thumb. I rely on a couple of my friends to cut through all that and point me towards the right hardware for my budget.

Also more standardized hardware makes it easier, way way easier, for developers to get consistent performance for their games on the PC. Removing all customization is not the way to go, but there is surely an argument to be made for reducing it.

Console.

 

[Durante]

And one reason for the limited audience is the hardware being pretty esoteric for the mass-market consumer, who for all the disdain directed towards him by ghst/other posters, is necessary for the big-budget PC game to make any sense.

Big-budget gaming is overrated. So your assets are slightly more detailed, but in return the game has to appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to be able to sell enough to justify that big budget. Not a great deal usually.

All I'm reading here is that you're alleging that John Carmack who is known to the enthusiast press as the most honest developer is straight up lying when he recounts his problems with getting RAGE to run at 60FPS on PC because of driver issues.

Exact quote please. Also, Carmack is trying something with Megatextures that results in a rather unusual use of the GPU, so it would make sense that there may be minor problems. FWIW, considering all we've seen of Rage, I'm really not sure if it's worth it.

Portal 2 which is coming from Gabe Newell's team that is self-described a lover of the PC platform looks a little bit better on PC than it does on PS3 because of 8xAA and 16xAF?

And 1920x1200 and solid 60 FPS (where were the driver problems?). MASSIVELY better, at least for me. A whole different game really.

 

[Castor Krieg]

We're comparing hardware from 2006 and 2011 and we get similar results. At some point you have to accept what the developers themselves say regarding this.

Didn't you think that's because both RAGE and Portal 2 are not written 100% for PC? Multiplatform games will always need to have some portion of their code standarized. It's the same reason why Uncharted 3 blows any console multiplatform title out of the water.

 

[Marco1]

it's not, we live in a fingerless mitten society and pc gaming is now something of a technology counter culture, a rebuttal to the endless mass market drive for reduced complexity at the expense of functionality. it's a hobbyist pursuit that through its idiosyncratic virtues, has not only sustained itself through the slings and arrows of multi generational console war, but began a spearheading resurgence right at the time that kotakus of this world wrote it off for dead. now it is again at the vanguard of the industry in every sense, while consoles are only becoming more conservative in their attempts to smear their singular branding across as many demographics as possible.

at a time when anyone with the slightest insight is aware of the gouging, sniping, depressing toilet bowl that the console market has become, people are seeking out pc gaming to rekindle their optimism and sense of adventure.

Thanks, I am going to cut and paste parts of this post to insert into future posts supposedly made by myself.
Just beautiful! Thanks.

 

[Always-honest]

And 1920x1200 and solid 60 FPS (where were the driver problems?). MASSIVELY better, at least for me. A whole different game really.

Same game.

 

[Wallach]

Ok, you guys don't agree that the razer blade standardizes anything. Fine. I didn't understand that that was your objection. I thought you disagreed that standardisation will be the future.

Do you disagree with that point as well? Or are we just going to keep going on with more and more powerful hardware ad-infinitum?

Within the PC space it only makes sense to do both of those things.

That is exactly how standardization is going to come about in the PC space; through creating a performance floor, not a performance ceiling.

 

[tehbible]

you all are doing him a favor by increasing traffic views for his site.

he baited and you all took the bait. smh

 

[Starfire]

If a PC essentially became another console, why would anyone prefer to buy games for it?

I guess I've never understood this argument.

 

[pillarofdawn]

I'm sick of Gawkers half assed "journalism" !voteban

 

[mxgt]

Same game.

Except a lot better.

 

[Retrofluxed]

it's not, we live in a fingerless mitten society and pc gaming is now something of a technology counter culture, a rebuttal to the endless mass market drive for reduced complexity at the expense of functionality. it's a hobbyist pursuit that through its idiosyncratic virtues, has not only sustained itself through the slings and arrows of multi generational console war, but began a spearheading resurgence right at the time that kotakus of this world wrote it off for dead. now it is again at the vanguard of the industry in every sense, while consoles are only becoming more conservative in their attempts to smear their singular branding across as many demographics as possible.

at a time when anyone with the slightest insight is aware of the gouging, sniping, depressing toilet bowl that the console market has become, people are seeking out pc gaming to rekindle their optimism and sense of adventure.

I love you.

 

[Psi]

Thanks for the reminder of why I don't go to Kotaku anymore. Glad to see I haven't been missing anything of value.

 

[gatotsu911]

While Kotaku is good for many things, well thought out articles are not what you should expect from them.

FTFY

 

[benny_a]

Exact quote please. Also, Carmack is trying something with Megatextures that results in a rather unusual use of the GPU, so it would make sense that there may be minor problems. FWIW, considering all we've seen of Rage, I'm really not sure if it's worth it.

I just concede all my points as I'm not going to re-watch 1 hour 20 minutes just to find the quote where he speaks of this tale. I do recommend watching his keynote to anyone reading this if they want to hear John Carmack's take on the issue.

And 1920x1200 and solid 60 FPS (where were the driver problems?). MASSIVELY better, at least for me. A whole different game really.

Can't argue with subjective feelings. I'm not seeing it, but if you do then I guess be happy with what I consider meager improvements.
While the real potential of the hardware is locked behind abstractions.

Didn't you think that's because both RAGE and Portal 2 are not written 100% for PC? Multiplatform games will always need to have some portion of their code standarized. It's the same reason why Uncharted 3 blows any console multiplatform title out of the water.

That's definitely a factor. But I'm comfortable saying now that if the next set of consoles even closely resembles current PC hardware it will require even better PC hardware in the future to match those graphics. I didn't think this position would be controversial.

 

[tehbible]

Thanks for the reminder of why I don't go to Kotaku anymore. Glad to see I haven't been missing anything of value.

i stopped going ever since Gawker's layout redesign. still looks like shit. aside from Lifehacker, everything else on Gawker network sucks.

 

[Reallink]

I understand why he wrote this piece. If you want to see his points about these hardheaded, mouth-foaming PC enthusiasts proven, just venture into any PC gaming thread on the entire internet and mention a controller. Any attempts or suggestions to make PC gaming more approachable and user friendly (be it universal controller support, more unified hardware, etc...) is just savagely shit all over by this relatively small group of like-minded super nerds. The responses are so similar and predictable, you would swear it's all just one guy trolling the internet with thousands of different forum accounts.

 

[Marco1]

Portal 2 which is coming from Gabe Newell's team that is self-described a lover of the PC platform looks a little bit better on PC than it does on PS3 because of 8xAA and 16xAF?
Is that really what the PC hardware is capable of?

Do Gamers really think that console games running at 1920x1200, 60FPS, 4xAA, 16xAF and better textures look similar to the console version? Really?
I played Batman:AA on PC at those specs after playing the 360 version and couldn't believe the difference.
Apologies for de-railing.

 

[Zeliard]

If you want to see his points about these hardheaded, mouth-foaming PC enthusiasts proven, just venture into any PC gaming thread on the entire internet and mention a controller. Any attempts or suggestions to make PC gaming more approachable and user friendly (be it universal controller support, more unified hardware) is just savagely shit all over by this relatively small group of like-minded super nerds. The responses are so identical and predictable, you would swear it's all just one guy trolling the internet with thousands of different forum accounts.

This is so wrong. Any PC gamer who knows what they're talking about will bring up adaptability to different controller inputs as a huge positive for the platform.

 

[benny_a]

Do Gamers really think that console games running at 1920x1200, 60FPS, 4xAA, 16xAF and better textures look similar to the console version? Really?
I played Batman:AA on PC at those specs after playing the 360 version and couldn't believe the difference.
Apologies for de-railing.

I take a normal PS2 game over a Nintendo 64 game with 1920x1200; 60 FPS; 4xAA; 16xAF and a high-res texture pack.
The current PC is a hardware generation in front of the current-gen consoles and if that is all it can produce right now, that is not all it can be.

 

[Marco1]

The current PC is a hardware generation in front of the current-gen consoles and if that is all it can produce right now, that is not all it can be.

I agree, it is a real shame that that power is only used to run the current games at a higher resolution but when we have games such as arma 2 and witcher 2 then my future as a PC gamer shines a little brighter.

 

[hlhbk]

Here was the response to the article that I posted on Kotaku:

The day they remove the option to customize or "tinker" the PC as I see fit is the last day I am a PC gamer. If I wanted a standardized experience I would pickup a console, that is what they are there for.

To the editor of this piece I promise you this: The day that customization ends and standardization hits the PC is the day PC gaming offically dies. As it is right now the PC gaming industry is being held back by the fact the consoles are running on over 5 year old hardware. Say what you want about PC gaming being hurt by its current state, but last time I checked Valve has publicly stated that Portal 2 sold better on PC than on consoles.

The truth is PC gaming is alive and well, and the only reason the sales numbers don't reflect this is because Valve doesn't release Steam's sales numbers and it is the top way to get a game now on the PC.

So you want a standardized experience and not want to have to keep up with current technology? Turn in your PC and get whatever console you want. BTW I am a owner of a gaming PC and all the consoles, so I am not a fanboy of either of them. No matter what you say your article shows you have little knowledge on the subject.

 

[dacuk]

It surprises me to limitless amounts how GAF keeps taking Kotaku seriously....

 

[Tain]

I understand why he wrote this piece. If you want to see his points about these hardheaded, mouth-foaming PC enthusiasts proven, just venture into any PC gaming thread on the entire internet and mention a controller. Any attempts or suggestions to make PC gaming more approachable and user friendly (be it universal controller support, more unified hardware, etc...) is just savagely shit all over by this relatively small group of like-minded super nerds. The responses are so similar and predictable, you would swear it's all just one guy trolling the internet with thousands of different forum accounts.

you must live in an entirely different universe

 

[Reallink]

This is so wrong. Any PC gamer who knows what they're talking about will bring up adaptability to different controller inputs as a huge positive for the platform.

Unfortunately most don't know what they're talking about then, cause I dare you to Google "Game Name" PC + Controller Support, and skim through some of the threads that pop up. It is mind blowing, the ignorance on display.

 

[Davidion]

I understand why he wrote this piece. If you want to see his points about these hardheaded, mouth-foaming PC enthusiasts proven, just venture into any PC gaming thread on the entire internet and mention a controller. Any attempts or suggestions to make PC gaming more approachable and user friendly (be it universal controller support, more unified hardware, etc...) is just savagely shit all over by this relatively small group of like-minded super nerds. The responses are so similar and predictable, you would swear it's all just one guy trolling the internet with thousands of different forum accounts.

Which internet are you using? Every other PC gamer on this board openly lauds their pads.

 

[Tain]

You'll find a lot of ignorance if you stick to any platform's "most".

I use my 360 gamepad and TE stick on my PC more than I do my 360.

I also play more Japanese games on this thing than I do my consoles, might be related.

 

[Chinner]

nice trolling banresen.

i think it's kinda sad he had to misquote newell and carmack to prove his point, just a bit disrespectful for what is essentially an article looking for hits. then again, it wouldn't be one without the other.

 

[Durante]

While the real potential of the hardware is locked behind abstractions.

But it's not. The "real potential" as you call it (that is, an increase in asset complexity at the expense of framerate and/or image quality as I would see it) is very much accessible. Most developers just don't see it as financially viable to do so. Witcher 2 is a nice example of what can be accomplished even with a mid-sized budget when really developing for PC, at least in terms of textures. It's far ahead of any console game there.

Very specific, unusual ways of using the hardware may not be as readily accessible as on consoles, but those would by no means be necessary to achieve the results you crave. The restrictions are primarily economic and not technical.

 

[Momo]

This is the kind of magic only Kotaku can sell

 

[benny_a]

I agree, it is a real shame that that power is only used to run the current games at a higher resolution but when we have games such as arma 2 and witcher 2 then my future as a PC gamer shines a little brighter.

But then I have to turn your "Do Gamers really think..." around on you.
The Witcher 2 is currently being shown to run on 360 with what they say are medium PC settings.
I personally would be extremely disappointed in the next-gen consoles if all they could do out of the gate is moving The Witcher 2 up from medium to high settings.

 

[Marco1]

I understand why he wrote this piece. If you want to see his points about these hardheaded, mouth-foaming PC enthusiasts proven, just venture into any PC gaming thread on the entire internet and mention a controller. Any attempts or suggestions to make PC gaming more approachable and user friendly (be it universal controller support, more unified hardware, etc...) is just savagely shit all over by this relatively small group of like-minded super nerds. The responses are so similar and predictable, you would swear it's all just one guy trolling the internet with thousands of different forum accounts.

Have you ever ventured into a console thread and claimed any game is better than COD:MW whatever edition ?
The vitriol that spreads from some mouths can be hard to swallow.

 

[hodgy100]

Portal 2 which is coming from Gabe Newell's team that is self-described a lover of the PC platform looks a little bit better on PC than it does on PS3 because of 8xAA and 16xAF?
Is that really what the PC hardware is capable of?

Its not a matter of what PC hardware is capable of, it's more like what the source engine is capable of.

The source engine debuted in 2004 with half life 2, and since then its had many upgrades to support newer graphical features but at the end of the day there will not be a huge graphical upgrade until Valve program a new engine.

 

[Reallink]

Which internet are you using? Every other PC gamer on this board openly lauds about their pads.

This is a console centric board where most of the PC gamers are either platform agnostic or converts in one direction or the other. Even here there are examples of this type of person mindlessly shitting on any reference or questions about controller support, though there is a fairly large defense force here to smack it right back.