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[ape2man]

In the weeks leading up to the studio’s closure, the staff of Visceral Games had crunched hard, working long hours to make a demo for Ragtag that they hoped might impress EA. Alongside the Canada-based studio EA Vancouver, Visceral’s employees made a set of high-octane demos in which Ragtag’s main characters would get chased by an AT-ST walker, get into a shootout on the desert planet Tatooine, and embark on a rescue mission within the dungeons of Jabba’s palace. One person who worked on the game described these demos as a “sampler platter,” something that would show EA’s executives what Visceral’s vision of Uncharted Star Wars could become.

The demos weren’t enough. Former Visceral employees don’t know when EA made the decision to shut down their studio, but on October 17, 2017, it became official. Visceral, which employed around 80 people, was no more. Staff say they were given three weeks to put together portfolios and look for other employment, both in and outside of EA.

Read the entire article here. https://kotaku.com/the-collapse-of-viscerals-ambitious-star-wars-game-1819916152

After this you heard a lot of talk about the death of single player games, that the finances are working for this types of games.

In its current form, it was shaping up to be a story-based, linear adventure game. Throughout the development process, we have been testing the game concept with players, listening to the feedback about what and how they want to play, and closely tracking fundamental shifts in the marketplace. It has become clear that to deliver an experience that players will want to come back to and enjoy for a long time to come, we needed to pivot the design.

 

[mckmas8808]

What does this have to do with single player games in general?

 

[Donos]

story based linear adventure? aintnobodygottimeforthat.jpg. People don't buy crates/or skins that way... shame. That the Star Wars ip, besides Battlefront has no further AAA (or even AA) games is truly baffling.

 

[ape2man]

What does this have to do with single player games in general?

Its one of the reasons they claimed killed the game and the studio, that creating single player games does not create enough revenue

 

[zeopower6]

Odd. It's always some weird excuse in the end.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Wow EA seemed so hell bent on being better than Uncharted 4 without having anything close to that pedigree. You don't aim for a high metacritic. You make the best game you can and hope it does enough to move the needle.

 

[Ravidrath]

Its one of the reasons they claimed killed the game and the studio, that creating single player games does not create enough revenue

I think there is ample evidence to the contrary, however...

Creating LICENSED single player games may not generate enough revenue to be worthwhile.

Licensing significantly changes the economics of game development, since a large percentage of the revenue would be going to Lucasfilm instead of EA.

 

[DrunkShogun]

Ea had uncharted ambitions from a team that wanted to build a series. It's s a shame but can only thank so many developers have became self publishing. Sounds like hell working with big publishers. Was the only Star Wars game I had interest in, actually it's the only ea game I had interest in.

 

[Neff]

What does this have to do with single player games in general?

That the more cynical publishers out there are starting to frown on single player games with a +60m budget being sold for $60 combined with a trade-in market.

As Cliff Bleszinski said a while back, it mathematically doesn't add up.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

The writing was on the wall when they pulled EA Motive off the project. When you're expecting a team of 160 and end up with 70 and the bosses won't allow new hires? Its a wrap.

 

[Shin]

I guess this is what one of their editors was teasing an hour ago on Twitter.
Was curious what kind of news it would be.

 

[SRTtoZ]

By the middle of 2017, people who saw the game say it resembled Uncharted too much for EA's liking. ”The three levels we made for the 3.5 gate, every single one of those levels you could hold up a video of Uncharted beside it," said one former Visceral employee, ”and you could literally say, ‘OK, this part is like this part from Uncharted. This level is like this level from Uncharted.'"

Oof.

 

[Alt183]

I like how EA talks like how everyone stereotypically thinks they talk like.

At EA, however, things were different. “She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?”

 

[Huevos de Oro]

In the end, things have to make financial sense to get made. If the numbers don't add up, not much more can be said.

 

[Dabanton]

I would kill for a Ghost Recon:Wildlands style tactical third person game set in the Star wars world I mean come on it writes itself

Open World
4 player Co-op or SP with AI team mates
Land or air travel
Play as a Storm Trooper like in Star Wars: Republic Commando or maybe bounty hunters
Make the world varied with different areas and climates to visit.

 

[Olengie]

I need a single player Star Wars game.

 

[Lucumo]

I need a single player Star Wars game.

Well, you could play some older ones...

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Republic Commando
etc

 

[zpiders]

The demo probably contained no loot boxes, that was enough for EA to axe the studio.

 

[Boss Mog]

Sadly this isn't the first time a promising AAA single player game set in the Star Wars universe gets cancelled. Here's to you Star Wars 1313.

Visceral are a good team and they got screwed on Battlefield Hardline cause it was a damn fine game with some innovative gameplay.

 

[Olengie]

Well, you could play some older ones...

Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
Star Wars: Republic Commando
etc

Like. On a Modern Console.

Great choices there. I have all of em. D;

 

[Megatron]

The writing was on the wall when they pulled EA Motive off the project. When you're expecting a team of 160 and end up with 70 and the bosses won't allow new hires? Its a wrap.

Well, but then they put EA Vancouver on it instead. The article does make it seem there was nobody there to make the tough choices. EA management was too lenient on the studio and the game's progress. If they determined that it was too expensive to hire new people in san fran, they should have shuttered and moved the studio then.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Well, but then they put EA Vancouver on it instead. The article does make it seem there was nobody there to make the tough choices. EA management was too lenient on the studio and the game's progress. If they determined that it was too expensive to hire new people in san fran, they should have shuttered and moved the studio then.

Seems like they trusted Hennig too much because she came from Naughy Dog instead or realizing ND is great because of the team there, not a singular person.

 

[ape2man]

Seems like they trusted Hennig too much because she came from Naughy Dog instead or realizing ND is great because of the team there, not a singular person.

Thats something of the ages. Your as good as your team.

 

[Za-Neen-Jya]

“EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?”

This makes me insanely angry.

 

[Megatron]

Seems like they trusted Hennig too much because she came from Naughy Dog instead or realizing ND is great because of the team there, not a singular person.

Yep. And it might have worked if it was someone like Staley, but Henning's expertise is story, which while a wonderful thing to have, and very difficult to do well, is just not as essential as a gameplay specialist.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Jade Redmond saying "Where's your Gravity Gun?" bugs me so much. Not every game needs some unique weapon. Ugh.

 

[family_guy]

Other project issues aside, publishers should stop spending so much money to stay in San Francisco. It's ridiculous.

 

[Euphor!a]

Jade Redmond saying "Where's your Gravity Gun?" bugs me so much. Not every game needs some unique weapon. Ugh.

I doubt it was meant as you must have a unique weapon, but that you must have something unique in general that makes your game stand out.

 

[IXI FalcoN]

Wow, it sounds like EA set them up for failure.

-Exhausted the team on Hardline and Hardline DLC, stalling progress on Ragtag
-Had ridiculous expectations (90+ metacritic, better than UC4)
-"Where's Chewbacca?"
-Frostbite strikes again. It screwed Bioware Montreal with Andromeda too.
-Pulling EA Motive away from them after promising support
-Studio's location in SF made it too expensive to keep around

I have to put some of the blame on Hennig too. She had her hand in too many pots and didn't trust the team to do their jobs. Great vision, poor managing.

But the most troubling thing to read was:

“She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?”

EA can claim this wasn't about it being a SP game, but that there tells me it played a significant part in Visceral's fate. I don't see Vancouver's project emulating Ragtag at all. It's going to be an open world GaaS molded game because that's what is most profitable.

 

[alemmon]

"Up at EA Vancouver, the publisher had just canceled a Plants vs. Zombie game and had a team free to help out on Ragtag, according to people who were on the team then."

Please dont tell me that this was Plants v Zombies Garden Warfare 3....

 

[Harlock]

The description looks very similar to a Rogue One game. Not sure about the multiple playable characters. I think is better stick with one.

And again the engine causing problems. If I was a game dev, would always choose the most easy engine to the project, even if means less beautiful game. But this is not the option with EA anyway.

 

[Wiped89]

Man, the game sounds like it would have been great, and I don't even like Star Wars!

Why couldn't they just tack on some multiplayer like Uncharted 2 onwards did, if they were worried about selling a single player only game?

I cannot believe there isn't a market out there for a STAR WARS adventure game FFS. It's probably the safest IP in the world right now.

But then, why build Star Wars Uncharted when you can build Star Wars: GTA Online Ultimate Jedi Empire

 

[Tankard]

Oh, that was fast. Will prepare the popcorn to read and get mad.

 

[TissueBox]

I've just been turning a blind eye to this over the past week because of the sting. One of my most anticipated projects for bring part-brainchild of Amy Hennig only to go through another troubled development stage; I just hope that whatever compromises are made, they manage to put together the best kind of game they can with the pieces left to use.

 

[ODDI]

Wow EA seemed so hell bent on being better than Uncharted 4 without having anything close to that pedigree. You don't aim for a high metacritic. You make the best game you can and hope it does enough to move the needle.

More like chasing the lastet fad outside the sports genre that's all they got. They want their own GTA, COD/hero shooter, Racer and so far everything is just "underperforming"

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There was the engine, Frostbite, which had never been used to make a third-person action-adventure game. In the video game world, an “engine” is a collection of code that is reused across games, often including basic, boring features like physics simulators, graphics renderers, and animation systems. For the past half-decade, EA has mandated that all of its studios use the Frostbite engine, which was designed by the EA studio DICE in Sweden to make Battlefield games.

Frostbite had been challenging enough for Visceral during Hardline’s development, and that was a Battlefield game. For Ragtag, Visceral would have to build key features from scratch. Like BioWare on Dragon Age and Mass Effect, Visceral found itself trying to make a third-person game on an engine built for first-person shooters. “It was missing a lot of tools, a lot of stuff that was in Uncharted 1,” said a former employee. “It was going be a year, or a year and a half’s work just to get the engine to do things that are assumed and taken for granted.”

I wonder if this is going to be a trend with many future EA games...This was one of the main issues with ME:A falling off track, wasn't it?

 

[Croatoan]

Jade Redmond saying "Where's your Gravity Gun?" bugs me so much. Not every game needs some unique weapon. Ugh.

When Jade Raymond joined EA was she made an executive? I thought she was just a studio head for motive.

Looks like Hennig wasn't a good fit for Visceral and the project was mismanaged by visceral and ea from the beginnning.

Also, at this point, fuck Frostbite. Its obviously only really good at FPS games. Use UE4 or something. The engine can't be that expensive. Hearing that the engine was missing features for third person action games was wild.

 

[Falchion]

Sad we won't get to see what her vision for this game.

 

[Croatoan]

Wow, it sounds like EA set them up for failure.

-Exhausted the team on Hardline and Hardline DLC, stalling progress on Ragtag
-Had ridiculous expectations (90+ metacritic, better than UC4)
-"Where's Chewbacca?"
-Frostbite strikes again. It screwed Bioware Montreal with Andromeda too.
-Pulling EA Motive away from them after promising support
-Studio's location in SF made it too expensive to keep around

I have to put some of the blame on Hennig too. She had her hand in too many pots and didn't trust the team to do their jobs. Great vision, poor managing.

But the most troubling thing to read was:



EA can claim this wasn't about it being a SP game, but that there tells me it played a significant part in Visceral's fate. I don't see Vancouver's project emulating Ragtag at all. It's going to be an open world GaaS molded game because that's what is most profitable.

Look at skyrim, that game has made so much money and it is single player. Why aren't execs asking for skyrim but star wars?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Well, but then they put EA Vancouver on it instead. The article does make it seem there was nobody there to make the tough choices. EA management was too lenient on the studio and the game's progress. If they determined that it was too expensive to hire new people in san fran, they should have shuttered and moved the studio then.

I agree they should have realized this wasn't going to work sooner. The scope of the project was way too huge for a team of 70 even if they were just focusing on the campaign. They were going up against a laundry list of challenges and by the time VC came on they were hemorrhaging talent like crazy.

 

[Kid Ying]

I dont know.. At first i was on the "bad ea" bandwagon but It really looks like they made the best dexision there.

Making Games is tough. Sometimes it just doesnt work. Closing visceral was a bit too much though.

 

[Aklamarth]

Also, at this point, fuck Frostbite. Its obviously only really good at FPS games. Use UE4 or something. The engine can't be that expensive. Hearing that the engine was missing features for third person action games was wild.

Well, it was created by a studio who only made FPS games....
Why the fuck does EA execs keep shoving that engine down the throat of all their internal studios ? That is the real question....

 

[prag16]

This makes me insanely angry.

Yeah if that's a quote that an exec actually uttered...

-_-

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Moral of the story: don’t sell your company to EA, they will kill you eventually.

 

[fenners]

Moral of the story: don’t sell your company to EA, they will kill you eventually.

Visceral was set up by EA, was an internal EA team.

 

[Nexus Zero]

I recognise those guys writing after reading his book! That’s cool

 

[Steroyd]

I dont know.. At first i was on the "bad ea" bandwagon but It really looks like they made the best dexision there.

Making Games is tough. Sometimes it just doesnt work. Closing visceral was a bit too much though.

I'm still in the bad EA camp.

Making the team make a FPS when their forte was third person action and the team enjoyed making third person action games, lowering morale.

Shoving Frostbite down their throat when it was missing features to make an Uncharted 1, never mind Uncharted 4, and it was the same thing that caused the Mass Effect Andromeda debacle.

Promising re-inforcement and then pulling that under Visceral's rug leaving them short staffed.

Have EA Vancouver take over the project instead of helping creating more friction.

I ain't going to re-quote the Fifa Ultimate team thing because holy shit does that make my blood boil.

And they didn't want it to resemble Uncharted too much... It's fucking star wars you could re-skin an Assassin's Creed with Star Wars and not enough people would give a fuck.

 

[NegroNinja]

It’s a shame

 

[CRIMSON-XIII]

I don't understand what kinds of technical difficulties they had.

I doubt it is hard to make an Assassins Creed type game, with its own action combat, but in star wars towns with star wars characters and NPCs. im not saying fetch quests and constant towers / points of interest, (i mean the game could have that), but I think the basic action rpg formula can be done.

Maybe they went too too linear here and failed.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

The writing was on the wall when they pulled EA Motive off the project. When you're expecting a team of 160 and end up with 70 and the bosses won't allow new hires? Its a wrap.

That's nice set of idiotic judgements. But you're right, the writing was on the wall before the game was even announced, because MT's, GaaS, etc. They don't want a nice selling game with a bunch of awards and acclaim, they want that investor cheer. Totally understandable, I guess.

Moral of the story: don't sell your company to EA, they will kill you eventually.

Pretty sure Visceral was an internal studio, built from within. Still... it's no less a sad affair.