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[FStop7]

SOME people disliked it.
Others said it was great, iir that Kotaku article.
At least it WAS a story. What shipped with Destiny made ZERO sense.

I get the feeling there was more going on further behind the scenes. Some kind of political infighting or a power struggle that guys like Joe Staten and Marty O'Donnell were involved in.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Maybe i just have a more idealized version of development. i've been working on a project for 6 years (almost entirely by myself) and refuse to put pen to paper until i'm 99% sure what i'm writing will be good.

Most developers don't have that kind of time luxury...but they have teams of people in giant meeting rooms with white boards and money to fund different concepts, etc.

I just don't get it. It's one thing for a small team to make something bad, but for a bunch of talented people in the industry with so many resources available to them, i have a hard time sympathizing with mediocrity. What's the excuse?

Solo projects are infinitely simpler to keep on track than team projects. I've worked on projects my entire working life (started my career in finance and now in clinical trials), and even in my smallish teams of 20-30 people, its difficult to have anything more detailed than a big picture idea of where the whole team is at.

For instance, I update my progress on a weekly basis in a log with a couple sentences that summarises my actions taken and the next immediate action to take. That's all my team knows. If anyone wants an actual detailed summary, they have to personally ask me or search through a labyrinth of emails. And again, this is for a small team project.

Bungie is a studio of 500 staff with at least one support studio in the form of High Moon. While I presume that not everyone was working on Destiny, a sizeable chunk of that 500 were. And given how hard it can be to keep track of a team of 30, consider how hard it is to track hundreds.

Also in need of consideration is that the writing team was lead by a highly trusted senior staff. You generally do not micromanage such people, which only further increases your chances of things flying under the radar.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Solo projects are infinitely simpler to keep on track than team projects. I've worked on projects my entire working life (started my career in finance and now in clinical trials), and even in my smallish teams of 20-30 people, its difficult to have anything more detailed than a big picture idea of where the whole team is at.

For instance, I update my progress on a weekly basis in a log with a couple sentences that summarises my actions taken and the next immediate action to take. That's all my team knows. If anyone wants an actual detailed summary, they have to personally ask me or search through a labyrinth of emails. And again, this is for a small team project.

Bungie is a studio of 500 staff with at least one support studio in the form of High Moon. While I presume that not everyone was working on Destiny, a sizeable chunk of that 500 were. And given how hard it can be to keep track of a team of 30, consider how hard it is to track hundreds.

Also in need of consideration is that the writing team was lead by a highly trusted senior staff. You generally do not micromanage such people, which only further increases your chances of things flying under the radar.

The picture they paint of how the develop their games in the videos they release is one where the writing team and creative directors are meeting regularly to keep the vision for the game consistent. And i'd assume Bungie of all places would be an environment where they can speak openly about the decisions made therein, as they have often shown to be the case.

I wouldn't think there were even 30 people responsible for the direction the game went. But if so, for things to fly under the radar for years is troubling.

Whole thing just seems like a mess. I'll leave it at that though since the inner-workings of the company are unfamiliar to me.

 

[Christof]

It's just so bizarre to see a team that had such great chemistry fall into despair like this. If the allegations are true, Staten and Jones had a falling out and Jones took the studios side. This off hand quote/joke from the 10 year old commentary could still be descriptive of their relationship....or maybe I needed another excuse to laugh at Marty, Jones and Stalin talking objectively about their games....

https://youtu.be/sBi_xx26ClM?t=1896

Ya watching this halo 2 commentary (and halo 1) between Jones, Staten and Marty can take a different light after what happened between the three of them during destiny.

You can see how closely Marty's and Staten's teams worked together for Halo 2. I would imagine that these radical sotry changes would have greatly affected Marty's work and perhaps contributed to the controversial voice acting performances Destiny launched with.

 

[v0yce]

Once again the "argument" that I'm a dummy for supporting a game that I purchased AFTER playing the demo and skipping any and all hype for the game

Also I didn't purchase it to tell them that they made the right decision nor would I purchase something that would promote poor game design

We are also talking about bungie which has almost never shipped a game in its original state or on time

This coupled with the article not sure if you actually read it but bungie pushed to get more time and always did which means they felt it could've been better too

They didn't "just" release it and they didn't intentionally put out a shitty product as, again, was highlighted in that story the crew was proud of their game

Did anyone actually read the whole article or just whatever confirmed their bias?

I don't know what you are arguing. How does any of that refute that Bungie/Activision made the right decision in their eyes? Which is what I said.

 

[Justinh]

Finally took the time to read this, and it really...eh, I don't know what to think about Bungie anymore.

What they did to Mr. O'Donnell and what they've allegedly done to Mr. Staten just leaves me with a slimy feeling. I see that some sources say the story sucked, but other times I see quotes like "it has a beginning, a middle, and an ending" or something like that.

I apologize for not completely reading the thread, only the first few/last few pages. Also, thank you Mr. Scheier for writing such an interesting article.


also: I think Cayde 6 is one of the best things that came with the expansion. It hurts to see that he (or someone who was basically him) be cut out from vanilla Destiny

 

[gatti-man]

The diablo team did a lot right in RoS, and from what i gathered they have only improved the game with seasons and the kanye cube(not sure what the name is)

I was not talking about that but yes they did. That has nothing to do with what I was replying to though.

Kanai cube.

Diablo 3 at launch was bad, but it wasn't Destiny bad. The worst things about Diablo 3 at launch was the RMAH, and how drops worked. Legendary drops were just that, you'd probably get 1 in 24 hours of playtime. The difficulty was fucked because in Act 2 there was a huge increase in difficulty compared to Act 1, meaning that Act 1 was the best place to farm.

Still, it had a story. And then they brought out the big patch that fixed everything, and I mean everything. Adventure Mode was such a boon for the game. You can hop on, do some bounties, and come out feeling like you accomplished something with the gear you earned. And they've only been making it better since. Classes now feel like you can mix and match instead of min/maxing(Which there might still be, but it's not bad). For my Wizard I run Elemental Fire, but I can easily swap out my items and make a perma-stun thunder class. It's great.

Destiny needs to go through an enlightenment like that. I don't think that'll be possible though.

It was far worse than destiny. I was there. The story that was there was cartoony and embarrassing. I legit would have preferred zero story to what was there.

The RMAH ruined the game. The difficulty levels were just dps checks. It seemed totally designed to force you to either grind forever or pay money to get to the next dps/defense check. There was no fun way to grind it was just play the same terrible story over and over.

The art looks like a kids game. Absolutely terrible for Diablo.

The gear was beyond bland and uninspiring.

No PVP at all.

The level design was a total joke. Linear, and uninspired.

The villains were embarrassingly bad. Not challenging and cartoon level villains.

The only thing Diablo 3 had that was good was its CGI. Literally everything else at launch was in my opinion shit.

Was the soundtrack bad as well? Outside of VOG the score was the best thing about vanilla Destiny. Didn't stop the higher up's trying to fuck Marty over for a percentage. Glad he won the court case so resoundingly, wouldn't surprise me if Joe was getting similar treatment with artistic interference.

Staten is an employee. They didn't like what he made. They aren't beholden to his artistic desires.

Marty and Bungie both acted poorly. It wasn't a percentage. Bungie tried to say he wasn't a founder but of course he was and won the case.

 

[Monocle]

I would love something like this.

Though with another layer.

Like, hover over earth and you get a list of misisons top to bottom in a column just to the right of the first planet column.

Then as you hover over the missions, you see the map on the far right, and a line draws out from the mission with the description, info, and maybe a significant picture from the level.

Plus, give us the option to use the D-pad instead of that terrible faux mouse icon thing.

This sounds way better than the current map.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It was far worse than destiny. I was there. The story that was there was cartoony and embarrassing. I legit would have preferred zero story to what was there.

The RMAH ruined the game. The difficulty levels were just dps checks. It seemed totally designed to force you to either grind forever or pay money to get to the next dps/defense check. There was no fun way to grind it was just play the same terrible story over and over.

The art looks like a kids game. Absolutely terrible for Diablo.

The gear was beyond bland and uninspiring.

No PVP at all.

The level design was a total joke. Linear, and uninspired.

The villains were embarrassingly bad. Not challenging and cartoon level villains.

The only thing Diablo 3 had that was good was its CGI. Literally everything else at launch was in my opinion shit.

Not to mention they had motherfucking Deckard Cain killed by a goddamn sidekick and they didn't even have the dignity to send him off with a cinematic, instead it was a crappy in-engine cutscene.

 

[gatti-man]

Not to mention they had motherfucking Deckard Cain killed by a goddamn sidekick and they didn't even have the dignity to send him off with a cinematic, instead it was a crappy in-engine cutscene.

It was so bad I spent 2 weeks trying to like it and couldn't and I've never been back even though I'm sure it's far better now. It soured me on Diablo and Blizzard in general.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It was so bad I spent 2 weeks trying to like it and couldn't and I've never been back even though I'm sure it's far better now. It soured me on Diablo and Blizzard in general.

Yeah I played it for a month and dropped it like a hot potato.

I did get the PS4 edition with Reaper of Souls and yeah, it's a better game. Way better. But even with the improvements you can feel what's missing from previous Diablo games, sorta like an amputee feeling a phantom hand.

Blizzard's so dead, all they have on the pipeline are F2P games.

 

[Troy]

Yeah I played it for a month and dropped it like a hot potato.

I did get the PS4 edition with Reaper of Souls and yeah, it's a better game. Way better. But even with the improvements you can feel what's missing from previous Diablo games, sorta like an amputee feeling a phantom hand.

Blizzard's so dead, all they have on the pipeline are F2P games.

All they have are great games. So dead.

 

[Kickz]

Amazing, I was so disappointed with Bungie for the let down but it all makes sense now... completely tragic.. We might've been robbed of one of the greatest games of all time..

 

[Fezan]

Fantastic article and fascinating read.

Now I want to know more about ssm cancelled game. It wad said to be similar to destiny with unique hud and a better stroy. Wish we knew what really happened behind the scenes

 

[exmachina64]

Fantastic article and fascinating read.

Now I want to know more about ssm cancelled game. It was said to be similar to destiny with unique hud and a better story. Wish we knew what really happened behind the scenes

The aspect of the video game industry I find most disappointing is the history that's effectively (and permanently) hidden, like chapters missing from a book.

Logically, I understand and accept the need for secrecy, but there's just so much we don't know that happens behind the scenes during development.

 

[dragonelite]

Kanai cube.

Diablo 3 at launch was bad, but it wasn't Destiny bad. The worst things about Diablo 3 at launch was the RMAH, and how drops worked. Legendary drops were just that, you'd probably get 1 in 24 hours of playtime. The difficulty was fucked because in Act 2 there was a huge increase in difficulty compared to Act 1, meaning that Act 1 was the best place to farm.

Still, it had a story. And then they brought out the big patch that fixed everything, and I mean everything. Adventure Mode was such a boon for the game. You can hop on, do some bounties, and come out feeling like you accomplished something with the gear you earned. And they've only been making it better since. Classes now feel like you can mix and match instead of min/maxing(Which there might still be, but it's not bad). For my Wizard I run Elemental Fire, but I can easily swap out my items and make a perma-stun thunder class. It's great.

Destiny needs to go through an enlightenment like that. I don't think that'll be possible though.

I really hope bungie brings a mode like that to destiny 2 in coop or with matchmaking with voice chat enable. I personally think that diablo route is a better route to run then
the wow route imho.

Haven't played since launch so i can't really judge destiny 1 right now at the moment.
Maybe when the taken king has a nice sale price i might get it.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I'm confused. Joe Staten's story was crap but they'e got Nathan Fillion doing RoboBuck in the Taken King vids I watched. Was that stuff created back when Joe was still leading the way or did they decide Staten's style was what they wanted after all?

 

[dragonelite]

I'm confused. Joe Staten's story was crap but they'e got Nathan Fillion doing RoboBuck in the Taken King vids I watched. Was that stuff created back when Joe was still leading the way or did they decide Staten's style was what they wanted after all?

They are probably recycling a lot of Joe ideas, and give their own spin to it.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I'm confused. Joe Staten's story was crap but they'e got Nathan Fillion doing RoboBuck in the Taken King vids I watched. Was that stuff created back when Joe was still leading the way or did they decide Staten's style was what they wanted after all?

Yeah it's weird. Taken King straight up feels like classic Staten, through and through. It's got a real ODST-vibe, and it's definitely not just because of Nathan Fillion. I'm guessing after the reaction to vanilla Destiny's plot they realized they were wrong and that was exactly what their fanbase wanted.

Also, I'm still really confused about Destiny supposedly shifting over to a non-linear story... Because vanilla Destiny is definitely super linear. I mean, unless throwing in a few optional side-missions that eventually got expanded into DLC plotlines is "non-linear".

 

[Nilaul]

Great article.

Does this mean that Destiny 2 will not be developed by Bungie?

I think Bungie will need a whole year or two to fix there tools.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Yeah it's weird. Taken King straight up feels like classic Staten, through and through. It's got a real ODST-vibe, and it's definitely not just because of Nathan Fillion. I'm guessing after the reaction to vanilla Destiny's plot they realized they were wrong and that was exactly what their fanbase wanted.

Also, I'm still really confused about Destiny supposedly shifting over to a non-linear story... Because vanilla Destiny is definitely super linear. I mean, unless throwing in a few optional side-missions that eventually got expanded into DLC plotlines is "non-linear".

I think it is because sometimes you get 2-3 missions to choose next instead of just 1..

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I think it is because sometimes you get 2-3 missions to choose next instead of just 1..

IIRC though those missions are just stand-alone side-missions, aren't they? I'm pretty sure the core story missions progress in strict linear fashion. Throwing in a bonus one-off mission here and there is a far cry from "non-linear". If you count the couple that got merged into the DLC quest-lines, Sword of Crota (merged into Dark Below) and Scourge of Winter (merged into House of Wolves), you sort of have something, but I don't think DLC really counts when you're calling your core game "non-linear", Especially since that quest-line merge actually didn't happen until the 2.0 update anyway. Both DLCs were post-game content when they originally launched.

 

[Monocle]

They are probably recycling a lot of Joe ideas, and give their own spin to it.

It would suck to have your story cannibalized that way. No wonder he left.

 

[GlamFM]

Every time somebody talks about "cut content" that was "basically finished" and should have been in the game i want to punch something.

Here´s an analogy i want to run by you:

A band makes 20 demos for their new album.

They get together with their producer and decide on the 10 tracks they fill finish and put on this album.

One year later, while collecting new material, they listen to the old unused demos and go like "hey, 3 of them were kind of cool!"

The 3 tracks get finalized and make it to album number 2.

Were you ripped off? These tracks - should they have been on album 1?

Should owners of album 1 get these tracks for free?

No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I honestly think what happened was this: Jason Jones didn't actually "hate" what Staten turned in, at least not because it wasn't good. Rather, after years of telling everyone (and perhaps more importantly himself) they were building something completely new and revolutionary, he sat down, watched the super-cut, and realized they were sitting on something very similar to Halo (which itself built heavily upon Marathon, their previous success), just with public play-spaces this time. So he panicked, tore everything up, and tried to start fresh in a rushed attempt to achieve his original goal of creating something completely different.

 

[aygomyownroad]

I bought Vanilla Destiny at launch. It was fun I must admit but the story was awful and I dropped it soon after. So much potential.

After all of the DLC problems I know I can't really go back as I will be locked out of a lot of good content.

This article shoes how much of a mess this game was. I hope destiny 2 is better but I may wait till after the DLC is released.

 

[DocSeuss]

Yeah it's weird. Taken King straight up feels like classic Staten, through and through. It's got a real ODST-vibe, and it's definitely not just because of Nathan Fillion. I'm guessing after the reaction to vanilla Destiny's plot they realized they were wrong and that was exactly what their fanbase wanted.

Also, I'm still really confused about Destiny supposedly shifting over to a non-linear story... Because vanilla Destiny is definitely super linear. I mean, unless throwing in a few optional side-missions that eventually got expanded into DLC plotlines is "non-linear".

Worth noting that Staten made some tweets about TTK that made it sound like he'd written at least some of it. He said he wasn't gonna talk about it, but he was glad people enjoyed it.

Yeah, the linear complaint doesn't make sense. All it really does is, based on the descriptions, spread the story out way more.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

IIRC though those missions are just stand-alone side-missions, aren't they? I'm pretty sure the core story missions progress in strict linear fashion. Throwing in a bonus one-off mission here and there is a far cry from "non-linear". If you count the couple that got merged into the DLC quest-lines, Sword of Crota (merged into Dark Below) and Scourge of Winter (merged into House of Wolves), you sort of have something, but I don't think DLC really counts when you're calling your core game "non-linear", Especially since that quest-line merge actually didn't happen until the 2.0 update anyway. Both DLCs were post-game content when they originally launched.

Oh linear as fuck, was just saying i think that is what they think.

 

[DC1]

Yeah, I can get behind what you're saying. I still think the 'your benefactor is the villain' thing can work, but it would need a super-robust narrative behind and beyond it to make it work... And I doubt Destiny would ever have received a super-robust narrative



Hey, Killzone 2 is a very flawed game, but it is frequently brought up in conversations about best-ever AI and gun combat. I've spoken with salaried developers who consider its AI on par with FEAR's, and if you play it on Elite, you see this first-hand. It's an incredible effort. Much worse game overall, though, of course.

Yeah, Destiny's Halo-like shoot/punch/grenade trifecta is fantastic, it's a genuine pleasure to play. And the AI is solid. But beyond that is barely any depth in terms of mechanics. In FEAR and MP2 you had the slow motion mechanic. In Killzone 2 you had the great cover mechanic and the unbelievable, unparalleled realistic sense of weight. Crysis gave you superpowers. Wolfenstein: TNO gave you a great narrative.

Destiny has nothing aside from it's (naturally brilliant) gunplay. The gunplay bleeds dry of all its fun-factor because there are literally no other mechanics in play (incredibly limited vehicles notwithstanding). There is nothing else to do. There is certainly no story to keep you pushing on (unlike Wolfenstein: TNO which is similarly just really good gunplay). And every mission's objective is the same. And you retread them over and over again.

Full disclosure: I only played vanilla Destiny for about 15-20 hours and never reached the Raid. I wasn't going to grind the same boring-as-shit cookie-cutter missions for one hour a night for two weeks to unlock the Raid – and promptly quit the game for good. There were literally tens of better games to play and hundreds of better ways to spend my time. (This is beside the point, though, I guess.)

Well!! Judgement!!!

I'm kind of offended.

 

[KDR_11k]

Engine issues in a "10 year franchise". This is gonna go well...

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I honestly think what happened was this: Jason Jones didn't actually "hate" what Staten turned in, at least not because it wasn't good. Rather, after years of telling everyone (and perhaps more importantly himself) they were building something completely new and revolutionary, he sat down, watched the super-cut, and realized they were sitting on something very similar to Halo (which itself built heavily upon Marathon, their previous success), just with public play-spaces this time. So he panicked, tore everything up, and tried to start fresh in a rushed attempt to achieve his original goal of creating something completely different.

If they wanted destiny to be mmo like, than having a strong linear story was a big no no. So they tear it up, have it so theres more side missions that lead to nothing and suddenly...they got what they wanted? In the old UI screenshot someone posted the missions were called chapters. You cant make a nonlinear game and call the missions chapters..unless its out of order.

Its weird. Staten obviously put alot of work into it thats still being used today.

 

[Twilight Gap]

If they wanted destiny to be mmo like, than having a strong linear story was a big no no. So they tear it up, have it so theres more side missions that lead to nothing and suddenly...they got what they wanted? In the old UI screenshot someone posted the missions were called chapters. You cant make a nonlinear game and call the missions chapters..unless its out of order.

Its weird. Staten obviously put alot of work into it thats still being used today.

I don't think they wanted it to be MMO like until recently.

Engine issues in a "10 year franchise". This is gonna go well...

well to be fair, it's only in the beginning. if this problem persists halfway through though...

 

[nubbe]

Destiny is a really interesting study
When you play it you feel that it has everything to be a really great experience.
Great presentation, great lore, great core mechanics

But the execution simply fails it.
Sad, since the original vision sounds like a more satisfying experience.

Sounds like to many management people want to be game designers even thouth they shouldn't be

 

[Dmonzy]

Every time somebody talks about "cut content" that was "basically finished" and should have been in the game i want to punch something.

Here´s an analogy i want to run by you:

A band makes 20 demos for their new album.

They get together with their producer and decide on the 10 tracks they fill finish and put on this album.

One year later, while collecting new material, they listen to the old unused demos and go like "hey, 3 of them were kind of cool!"

The 3 tracks get finalized and make it to album number 2.

Were you ripped off? These tracks - should they have been on album 1?

Should owners of album 1 get these tracks for free?

No.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Not quite. The analogy would make more sense if those 10 songs not included in album 1 were known by the public already and still wanted. Then yes, many people would be justifiably upset that they weren't able to buy their favorite songs from the artist for another year.

Because that's how it was with Destiny. We knew about all the areas that were cut going as far back as the beta.

 

[GamingKaiju]

As a big Destiny fan (1000Hrs+) it saddens me that they ripped it apart the way they did.

But looking at it now after TTK I think they are on the right path, just need a few more tweaks and fix the RNG system as it is still broken. The parts about rasputin are very intresting and we're getting more and more information on him as the game progesses.

I hope Destiny 2 comes with more story and locations but also retain elements of Destiny 1. I would still like to raid in the VoG in Destiny 2 and most of all I want to keep my Characters and stuff and transfer them over.

As regards to the mircotranctions it doesn't bother me if people want to spend money on the carlton dance, then let them and I'll enjoy the free DLC. Also I'm hoping for another Raid before 2016 they can't goto 2016 with the content line up it will be a ghost town well before then.

 

[GlamFM]

Not quite. The analogy would make more sense if those 10 songs not included in album 1 were known by the public already and still wanted. Then yes, many people would be justifiably upset that they weren't able to buy their favorite songs from the artist for another year.

Because that's how it was with Destiny. We knew about all the areas that were cut going as far back as the beta.

Not being able to buy - not getting for free are two different things.

 

[FyreWulff]

People should judge Destiny on the content it has rather than what has been revealed or rumored on the cutting room floor. I'm not sure how a creative work is supposed to be judged on content it's creator never offered in the final product.

There is no "worldwide billions sold Game of the Century a+ secret destiny" out there that was perfect and had world peace - nobody in Bungie thinks Destiny is perfect, just like most other developers about their own game - Destiny is Destiny. You have to cut content in games. Of course, people tend to think everything cut was automatically awesome, which is a whole thread onto itself - but I'm not sure what a developer is supposed to do when people have constructed a version of their game that doesn't exist out of rumor, speculation, and shreds of visible changes from trailers and interviews. And they're of course they're going to be limited in how much they talk about cut content because either they're too busy to get around to doing up their posmortem, the general idea may still have a chance and is trying to be saved by refining it and trying to implement it again in the future, or the person or person(s) left and they're being diplomatic and letting them take those ideas with them, and many other reasons too complex to list.

 

[Twilight Gap]

People should judge Destiny on the content it has

76 on meta critic says that they did. And it wasn't enough. And it still isn't enough.

The game Bungie "sold" with their initial pitch would have been amazing, and looking at the game we ended up with, they came close to delivering that game.

Game development happens - we get it. But the fact that the game is close to their vision as it is, and yet so far is why it's so disappointing. There just wasn't enough, and what was there was very clearly the result of being rushed and thrown together. Add in the realization that we may never see it because of how bad their engine is, and people have a right to be depressed.

It's like looking at a menu and seeing an amazing dish. The chef goes to prepare your order and then realizes halfway through cooking it that he used salt instead of sugar. So he cuts off all the sweet parts and fills it in with pieces from a similar dish he had in the fridge from 3 days ago. It arrives on your plate and it's cold, hard and tasteless and not at all what you anticipated paying for. But at least it looks good.

 

[GlamFM]

76 on meta critic says that they did. And it wasn't enough. And it still isn't enough.

The game Bungie "sold" with their initial pitch would have been amazing, and looking at the game we ended up with, they came close to delivering that game.

Game development happens - we get it. But the fact that the game is close to their vision as it is, and yet so far is why it's so disappoint. There just wasn't enough, and what was there was very clearly the result of being rushed and thrown together. Add in the realization that we may never see it because of how bad their engine is, and people have a right to be depressed.

It's like looking at a menu and seeing an amazing dish. The chef goes to prepare your order and then realizes halfway through cooking it that he used salt instead of sugar. So he cuts off all the sweet parts and fills it in with pieces from a similar dish he had in the fridge from 3 days ago. It arrives on your plate and it's cold, hard and tasteless and not at all what you anticipated paying for. But at least it looks good.

EDIT: Come to think of it I´m not interested in a conversation with you.

 

[FyreWulff]

76 on meta critic says that they did

and that's okay. Bungie can't go back and change their launch reviews with content updates, you just take your punches, learn, and build.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Seriously dude - when did you become the president of the Destiny hate club?

What happened to you?

Bringing up Meta to make a point is just cheap and you know it. Why so bitter?

Did I look like a Destiny fanboy to you? I congratulate achievement and criticize mediocrity.

When it comes to Destiny, I see a game with a tremendous amount of wasted potential that continuously squanders its potential at every opportunity by punishing the people who continue to play the game in spite of its problems. I have every right to be "bitter", but I'm not pushing some hating agenda. Everybody knows what the game does right and everybody wants more of that, therefore it is important to continue that dialog.

 

[GlamFM]

Did I look like a Destiny fanboy to you? I congratulate achievement and criticize mediocrity.

When it comes to Destiny, I see a game with a tremendous amount of wasted potential that continuously squanders its potential at every opportunity by punishing the people who continue to play the game in spite of its problems. I have every right to be "bitter", but I'm not pushing some hating agenda. Everybody knows what the game does right and everybody wants more of that, therefore it is important to continue that dialog.

Read until "punishing the people who continue to play" and lost interest, sorry.

 

[Truant]

The director should be used for picking planets. The whole "mission vs patrol" concept should be scrapped and integrated into the quest system. You shouldn't have to return to orbit to go on a different mission, you should just select it from your quest log and go to the appropriate area when you're on that planet.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

If they wanted destiny to be mmo like, than having a strong linear story was a big no no. So they tear it up, have it so theres more side missions that lead to nothing and suddenly...they got what they wanted? In the old UI screenshot someone posted the missions were called chapters. You cant make a nonlinear game and call the missions chapters..unless its out of order.

Its weird. Staten obviously put alot of work into it thats still being used today.

The think is, they didn't want to be MMO-like either. Bungie insisted for ages that they weren't an MMO or like one. I think they really wanted to be something else but couldn't quite grasp what it was. I think the reason TTK came together so successfully is that they finally accepted the fact that they were developing an FPS with a Halo-like universe and MMORPG-derived design and just went with it.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Read until "punishing the people who continue to play" and lost interest, sorry.

Because you're unable to see passed those glasses you're wearing.

You've vehemently defended Bungie at every turn even when they admitted to being wrong and corrected themselves. It's embarrassing.

I guarantee that I'm a bigger fan of the game than you, but I'm not going to take bullshit from the game or its playerbase, especially you.

 

[spannicus]

You will grind and you will enjoy it, then we will take something else away and make you grind for that too, after we hit the unlock quest button.

 

[GlamFM]

Because you're unable to see passed those glasses you're wearing.

You've vehemently defended Bungie at every turn even when they admitted to being wrong and corrected themselves. It's embarrassing.

I should be punished, by Bungie.

Hear that Bungie? Here´s an opportunity!

EDIT: OK, no interest to get into a fight, but you are totally pushing an agenda. Not sure what triggered the current state you are in, but i have the feeling the last word might have something to do with it. "punishing the people who continue to play " is bullshit and once you cool down in a couple of days you will agree.

For now just go on convincing everybody how much of a train-wreck the game that you have been playing for hundreds of hours is.

 

[FyreWulff]

The think is, they didn't want to be MMO-like either. Bungie insisted for ages that they weren't an MMO or like one. I think they really wanted to be something else but couldn't quite grasp what it was. I think the reason TTK came together so successfully is that they finally accepted the fact that they were developing an FPS with a Halo-like universe and MMORPG-derived design and just went with it.

According to their Taken King interviews.. this is basically what happened. They fully accepted they were making a first person RPG instead of just a shooter. Hence why TTK ramped up the RPG elements and added Quests.

 

[Twilight Gap]

and that's okay. Bungie can't go back and change their launch reviews with content updates, you just take your punches, learn, and build.

wasn't implying that they could. those of us who accepted the game we got back then and continued to play it did so believing that the game would indeed be built upon. but they have not always moved forward.

 

[SomTervo]

That's why I went with "Pragmatic Idealist" later. I think that's a better description. Also, the Leviathan works for the Traveler, and it's stated, I believe, that the Traveler trapped them there.



1) I think the people who bring up Killzone 2 are wrong, so just because it gets brought up means nothing to me. Like... how people who love the N64 controller bring it up as a great controller. Sorry, no, I just can't agree with that. I'd love to have a lengthy, spirited debate on KZ2, but for me to get really specific, I'd have to get it again.

I will say that it sucks at weight. Lag isn't weight. Animation and sfx create weight, and other games handle the concept of weighty, responsive play better (Gears of War is the best at this for a bunch of reasons).

2) That comes to what you value in a game. Me, I personally prefer solo, story-driven play, but there are times I just want to zone out, and no game is better than Destiny for just hopping in somewhere and shooting things in the face. It's a game you learn to feel, which means you hit this really weird zen space that no other game has ever provided me, and I love it.

1. Well I mean, professionals who are obsessed with AI call Killzone 2's some of the best around. It's not an unqualified, somehow-erroneous opinion. However, it also does not mean Killzone is a GOAT FPS or a great (or even very good) game. I enjoyed it but it's still fairly low on my list of best FPS's and has a lot of flaws. The AI was but a highlight. (Re the movement lag, it wasn't game-breaking and I felt it was effective at conveying super-weight. I quickly compensated for it and had a great time with the game - even completing it on the hardest difficulty - but in spite of all that it certainly doesn't deserve to be in a discussion alongside games like FEAR.)

2. That is absolutely true - there's no way I can deny Destiny's power and perfection as a zone-out game. I felt too bitter about buying it full-price and digitally (so no refunds) so I quit it for good, totally soured on it, regardless of how solid the gunplay is. In my case, I tend to play open world games for my zone-out fix. MGSV and Assassin's Creed are great for that. MGSV especially... Hours go by in the blink of an eye. Do a couple of side ops and the whole night's gone.

PS I do narrative consultancy for games too, and I'd be interested in seeing some of your work (as you mentioend to someone above). I'm across the pond and very small scale, been going less than a year.

Well!! Judgement!!!

I'm kind of offended.

Genuinely sorry to offend. Let's hash it out. What do you disagree with me on?