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[Blader]

If the NBC executives could just admit that their experiment to save money on programming and put Leno in there has failed

They have. That's why they want to put Leno back at 11:35 in the first place.

 

[Zeliard]

Did Leno originally leave the 11:35 slot because his contract had ended or because he was pushed out?

Edit: Wow, Letterman is not the biggest Carson Daly fan. :lol

 

[tokkun]

But he's completely right. They aren't giving him any chance at all.

I will agree that they haven't given him that much time to turn around the poor performance, however I think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that it's only about the lead-in and the content of the show has nothing to do with the ratings. If that were true, then why would they even need Conan?

 

[Seth C]

Did Leno originally leave the 11:35 slot because his contract had ended or because he was pushed out?

For various reasons he had agreed to retire 5 years ago.

 

[AlternativeUlster]

Letterman's monologue for tonight has been leaked:

http://www.thrfeed.com/2010/01/letterman-i-just-knocked-off-another-competitor.html

:lol

 

[Blader]

Did Leno originally leave the 11:35 slot because his contract had ended or because he was pushed out?

NBC forced him to announce his retirement in 2004 about leaving the show in 2009, so that they could give it to Conan, as a way of keeping him on their network (whose contract had expired in 2004). Leno agreed initially, but as the date closer, he realized that he didn't want to retire.

 

[mightynine]

He didn't take any responsibility for his show's poor ratings and blamed it all on the lead-in.

But, as Conan pointed out, Leno was given a chance to turn around the low ratings he had when he took over the Tonight Show, after tweaking from execs. Conan has not been given that chance. And Leno wasn't fighting against his own network for guests, money, etc.

Everyone notes that "if Conan goes to Fox, he'll be killed by Leno/Letterman", to which I say, why would Fox care? Anything he brings will be more than what they have now in late night: zero. If he can bring in money to a daypart they're currently making zlich in, why wouldn't they be interested?

 

[BSTF]

Why do people keep blaming Jay when Conan was getting beat by Letterman repeats before the Jay Leno Show even aired?

 

[NewLib]

People who keep bringing up Conan's ratings are missing the point on why this is happening.

The problem that NBC was having was because of Jay Leno Show not getting good ratings (which was fine with them because it was cheap) and angering affiliates. Affiliates put pressure on NBC to cancel the Jay Leno Show. They did so but dont want to lose Jay Leno so they are trying to move him back to 11:35 for a 30 minute show.

If the Jay Leno Show never existed, Conan would likely be in no danger of being replaced on the Tonight show or losing his spot. This entire situation springs from 1) The failure of the Jay Leno Show and 2) NBC's reluctance to lose Jay Leno.

 

[templeusox]

Everyone notes that "if Conan goes to Fox, he'll be killed by Leno/Letterman", to which I say, why would Fox care? Anything he brings will be more than what they have now in late night: zero. If he can bring in money to a daypart they're currently making zlich in, why wouldn't they be interested?

Not necessarily. They need to run a cost/benefit to see if the production costs of creating a nightly talk show outweighs running popular re-runs in syndication.

 

[water_wendi]

Why do people keep blaming Jay when Conan was getting beat by Letterman repeats before the Jay Leno Show even aired?

Agreed. Conan should have bowed out after just a couple weeks. Instead hes single-handedly destroyed an American institution.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Why do people keep blaming Jay when Conan was getting beat by Letterman repeats before the Jay Leno Show even aired?

Because he wasn't getting a fair shake to improve his ratings. Leno was getting thumped by Letterman until the Hugh Grant interview.

 

[MThanded]

Agreed. Conan should have bowed out after just a couple weeks. Instead hes single-handedly destroyed an American institution.

joke post im assuming

 

[KHarvey16]

I will agree that they haven't given him that much time to turn around the poor performance, however I think it's a little ridiculous to suggest that it's only about the lead-in and the content of the show has nothing to do with the ratings. If that were true, then why would they even need Conan?

You can't ignore the fact that in every case when the host is changed there is an adjustment period. They aren't allowing for this at all even though it's expected.

 

[mightynine]

Not necessarily. They need to run a cost/benefit to see if the production costs of creating a nightly talk show outweighs running popular re-runs in syndication.

Yes, whatever your local Fox affliate is running at 11pm is what they choose from syndication and what not, but that is not programmed by the network, and what I'm saying is the network isn't seeing anything from that, but would with a late nights show at 10.

According to the New York Times:

Several NBC executives suggested Fox might be more interested in tweaking NBC than seriously pursuing Mr. O’Brien, citing the costs of starting a late-night franchise — which the NBC executive estimated at $70 million — and issues the network might have with getting its local affiliates to give up lucrative syndicated programs, like reruns of “Seinfeld,” to make room.

Mr. Reilly said the cost estimate sounded correct and acknowledged the affiliate question might be a thorny one. He confirmed that Fox retained the right in its affiliation agreements to start a late-night show and have all its stations carry it.

“But the affiliates are just coming through a very challenging business cycle,” he said. “They have gotten hit very hard by the recession so we’re not going to be cavalier about this in the least.”

I think Fox would want at least 90 percent clearance from affiliates - with top markets covered - before they seriously make a deal.

 

[Zeliard]

You can't ignore the fact that in every case when the host is changed there is an adjustment period. They aren't allowing for this at all even though it's expected.

It's especially silly to be doing that with Conan when the same exact thing already happened with him on the Late Night show. He started off roughly, both in terms of critical response and ratings, but he eventually found his groove and became quite popular. A lot of people watching Conan now have never really seen him and Conan has the sort of irreverent and highly spontaneous comedic style that some have to warm up to.

 

[Tobor]

What part of Leno being in the tank for two solid years before he finally grew an audience do you Yoko Leno's not get? It takes time to build a late night audience, no matter who you are. NBC was fully aware of this, there is no indication at all that this has anything to do with Conan's ratings. It's about Jay and the affiliates.

If NBC was smart, they'd let Jay walk, and give Conan the time he needs to build. They're sacrificing the next 20 years to cover their asses for 2, tops. It's bullshit.

You can't ignore the fact that in every case when the host is changed there is an adjustment period. They aren't allowing for this at all even though it's expected.

Exactly.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Good on Conan, now NBC seem like a bunch of fucktards.

 

[tokkun]

But, as Conan pointed out, Leno was given a chance to turn around the low ratings he had when he took over the Tonight Show, after tweaking from execs. Conan has not been given that chance. And Leno wasn't fighting against his own network for guests, money, etc.

Another difference is that Leno was relatively new to hosting whereas Conan has been had his own show for over 10 years and already had an established audience. Isn't it reasonable to expect that Conan shouldn't need as much time as Leno did? Furthermore, haven't Conan's ratings gotten worse over time rather than better?

Regardless, the original point I was making was that him blaming all of his problems on others and taking no responsibility - whether justified or not - is pretty much the opposite of what the phrase 'being the bigger man' means.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Yoko Leno :lol

 

[Zeliard]

Another difference is that Leno was relatively new to hosting whereas Conan has been had his own show for over 10 years and already had an established audience. Isn't it reasonable to expect that Conan shouldn't need as much time as Leno did?

Conan's fans followed him, but overall, Conan is essentially playing to a new audience now. There are tons of people who don't stay up till 12:35 AM. Conan knows this more than anyone, which is probably why he doesn't want his show pushed back whatsoever (not to mention having to play second fiddle to Leno yet again).

 

[Blader]

Another difference is that Leno was relatively new to hosting whereas Conan has been had his own show for over 10 years and already had an established audience.

Leno was a guest host on the Tonight Show for years before he took over for Carson.

 

[tokkun]

Conan's fans followed him, but overall, Conan is essentially playing to a new audience now. There are tons of people who don't stay up till 12:35 AM. Conan knows this more than anyone, which is probably why he doesn't want his show pushed back whatsoever (not to mention having to play second fiddle to Leno yet again).

Then wouldn't it make more sense to compare Conan's performance to Letterman's rather than to Leno's? Both had established audiences and made the jump to a different time. Letterman even changed to a different channel. Yet it seems as if Letterman struggled much less than Conan has.

Leno was a guest host on the Tonight Show for years before he took over for Carson.

Hence why I said 'relatively', unless you consider a few guest-hosting stints to be equivalent to running your own show for over a decade.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Another difference is that Leno was relatively new to hosting whereas Conan has been had his own show for over 10 years and already had an established audience. Isn't it reasonable to expect that Conan shouldn't need as much time as Leno did? Furthermore, haven't Conan's ratings gotten worse over time rather than better?

Weren't Leno's ratings pretty crappy in the beginning before Dave's show actually started. If that's true then he was doing poorly without even having direct competition.

 

[Borgnine]

the original point I was making was that him blaming all of his problems on others and taking no responsibility - whether justified or not - is pretty much the opposite of what the phrase 'being the bigger man' means.

He did no such thing. He knows he's not doing as well as he could be and he's saying he needs some time to build an audience. But also, NBCs weak lead in shit isn't helping him.

 

[D23]

i think FOX should pick up conan and put him after American Idol.. ratings will go crazy

 

[kaching]

No he isn't. He didn't take any responsibility for his show's poor ratings and blamed it all on the lead-in.

Sure he did, he said he needed time to build the raitings. He's taking responsibility for that effort.

 

[tokkun]

He did no such thing. He knows he's not doing as well as he could be and he's saying he needs some time to build an audience. But also, NBCs weak lead in shit isn't helping him.

Show me where in the statement he took personal responsibility for the ratings.

Sure he did, he said he needed time to build the raitings. He's taking responsibility for that effort.

I don't see how that is taking responsibility at all. He could have said "The performance of my show has not lived up to my expectations, but I believe I could rectify that if given more time."

 

[Ultimo hombre]

I'd be pretty good at doing a late night style show. Out of no where and on top in about 2 seasons, I'd say.

 

[bridegur]

Awesome clip from tonight's Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

 

[water_wendi]

i think FOX should pick up conan and put him after American Idol.. ratings will go crazy

Fox has probably already suggested this. im not 100% but im fairly certain this is why Simon is leaving American Idol. You can thank Conan for that one, too.

 

[joshcryer]

Assuming the conspiracy is true and NBC is trying to get rid of COnan, he cannot quit until the move to 12:05 is finalized, since that would breach Conan's contract. All Conan is doing here is saying "don't breach my contract and we'll be fine." NBC won't put Leno on after this debacle is over, and Leno will "graciously" step down.

 

[Tobor]

What is your point, tokkun? Conan said that "It was my mistaken belief that, like my predecessor, I would have the benefit of some time and, just as important, some degree of ratings support from the prime-time schedule. Building a lasting audience at 11:30 is impossible without both."

I'm sorry he didn't grovel enough for your liking, but that doesn't change the truth of his statement.

I don't see how that is taking responsibility at all. He could have said "The performance of my show has not lived up to my expectations, but I believe I could rectify that if given more time."

You're just being arbitrary.

 

[Zoe]

Awesome clip from tonight's Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

Carson Daly... :lol

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Assuming the conspiracy is true and NBC is trying to get rid of COnan, he cannot quit until the move to 12:05 is finalized, since that would breach Conan's contract. All Conan is doing here is saying "don't breach my contract and we'll be fine." NBC won't put Leno on after this debacle is over, and Leno will "graciously" step down.

That would be the best ending and hopefully what will happen. Still though, with NBC the way it is things will probably only get worse.

 

[tokkun]

Assuming the conspiracy is true and NBC is trying to get rid of COnan, he cannot quit until the move to 12:05 is finalized, since that would breach Conan's contract. All Conan is doing here is saying "don't breach my contract and we'll be fine." NBC won't put Leno on after this debacle is over, and Leno will "graciously" step down.

I thought that his contract stipulated that the show could start as late as 12:05 - a stipulation that existed to accommodate live events such as sports games.

 

[Click]

What part of Leno being in the tank for two solid years before he finally grew an audience do you Yoko Leno's not get? It takes time to build a late night audience, no matter who you are. NBC was fully aware of this, there is no indication at all that this has anything to do with Conan's ratings. It's about Jay and the affiliates.

If NBC was smart, they'd let Jay walk, and give Conan the time he needs to build. They're sacrificing the next 20 years to cover their asses for 2, tops. It's bullshit.

It's the "what have you done for me lately" mentality that plagues American culture these days.

And NBC just being retards with Leno being somewhat selfish.

 

[DMczaf]

Awesome clip from tonight's Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

Besides Conan bringing the ether on his show, the other best part about all of this is Letterman killing Carson Daly for no reason :lol

 

[Blader]

Assuming the conspiracy is true and NBC is trying to get rid of COnan, he cannot quit until the move to 12:05 is finalized, since that would breach Conan's contract. All Conan is doing here is saying "don't breach my contract and we'll be fine." NBC won't put Leno on after this debacle is over, and Leno will "graciously" step down.

NBC is too stupid to do anything right (see: their apparent search for guest hosts).

Leno will have to leave of his own volition for Conan to be able to stay.

 

[Strike]

Posted in the other thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOQvsuJ5wIA

 

[Tobor]

It's the "what have you done for me lately" mentality that plagues American culture these days.

And NBC just being retards with Leno being somewhat selfish.

Damn straight. The NBC of today would have shitcanned Cheers and Seinfeld in their first seasons without blinking an eye.

 

[NeoUltima]

Always loved Conan, wish him luck in the future. Rich sob.

 

[tokkun]

What is your point, tokkun? Conan said that "It was my mistaken belief that, like my predecessor, I would have the benefit of some time and, just as important, some degree of ratings support from the prime-time schedule. Building a lasting audience at 11:30 is impossible without both."

I never said it was untrue. I pointed out that the person who said Conan "was being the bigger man" was full of shit. Then a bunch of people came in and tried to move the goalposts on my statement. If you want to support Conan, fine, just don't distort reality.

Personally I happen to like Conan, but I think this is a situation in which there is on one party that is completely right or completely wrong.

 

[Fifty]

It's pretty annoying having two threads on the same topic. We need an official Late Night Saga thread.

 

[Chris R]

Conan needs to find the magic that he lost when the show left NYC. It just hasn't been the same, and that really makes me sad. Late Night was the cream of the crop, but Conan's new show just doesn't capture the magic of his old show for some reason.

As for Fallon, leave him alone and let him grow into his chair. Sure he stinks at interviewing people, but he well get better (and has improved since he started). Fallon has the best non-interview/monologue show right now though.

 

[joshcryer]

Conan is saying that he is going to be professional and continue the job he and NBC both agreed upon. But the moment that Jay's show is on at 11:30, The Tonight Show with Conan as host is no more. He's giving them an ultimatum.

I'm glad more people are beginning to see what is going on here. Conan is giving *them* an ultimatum. He ain't going any where.

 

[kaching]

I don't see how that is taking responsibility at all.

I don't see how it isn't.

 

[legend166]

Then wouldn't it make more sense to compare Conan's performance to Letterman's rather than to Leno's? Both had established audiences and made the jump to a different time. Letterman even changed to a different channel. Yet it seems as if Letterman struggled much less than Conan has.



Hence why I said 'relatively', unless you consider a few guest-hosting stints to be equivalent to running your own show for over a decade.

Letterman was competing against Jay Leno, who at the time, as you said, hadn't had his own show.

Conan is competing against David Lettermn, a guy who's been around for decades and is a late night institution.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Awesome clip from tonight's Late Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msC3uu4KZbg

I'd watch that version of Carson Daly.

Should I combine both threads into one superthread?

 

[oracrest]

time for some Bill Hicks wisdom?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfkvpcjNk7c&feature=related