• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Lawmaker Says Using Restroom Is "A Choice" For Transgender People

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
http://www.buzzfeed.com/dominichold...transge?utm_term=4ldqpia&bftw=lgbt#.fvm11QB4k

Florida state Rep. Frank Artiles is not worried a bill he introduced last week will create problems for transgender people, he told BuzzFeed News, because using the restroom is a choice.

The Miami Republican’s bill would restrict single-sex public facilities — including restrooms in restaurants, theaters, workplaces, and schools — to people of the corresponding “biological sex, either male or female, at birth.” Violators would be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail.

Asked if such a rule would create problems for transgender women required to use the men’s room, Artiles told BuzzFeed News, “People are not forced to go the restroom. They choose to go to the restroom.”

“While I understand there are transgender people who want to use bathrooms however they want to feel, that is irrelevant to me,” Artiles explained. He said gender identity was “subjective” and the birth sex of a transgender person is the only factor that should dictate which restroom they use.

“It’s their plumbing that determines where they go to the bathroom,” Artiles said. Asked to clarify, he added, “Their anatomy is going to dictate where they go to the bathroom.”

Artiles said that his bill is designed to promote public safety by banning male sexual predators who claim to be women from prowling ladies’ restrooms. But two Florida lawmakers and an LGBT advocate told BuzzFeed News that the public-safety threat is a red herring and, instead, the bill exists to discriminate against transgender people.

“I believe this bill is totally filed to target a community — to make their lives more difficult, be divisive, and cause them harm,” Rep. David Richardson, Florida’s only out LGBT state lawmaker, told BuzzFeed News. He said the public safety claims are “outrageous” and called the bill a “political statement.”
“It is not a public safety matter,” said Rep. Janet Cruz, another Democrat. “The bill fosters bullying and breeds hatred,” she said, adding that it was “an attack on humanity.”

Artiles countered his wish is “not to attack transgender people or make their lives difficult.” However, he said several times, the bill was a direct response to local laws in Florida that ban discrimination against transgender people. Specifically, he said, a law passed in December in Miami-Dade County, which encompasses Artiles’ district, “gives the cover of law for people who use this as a loophole for voyeurism and other criminal activity. While I understand the good intention, it is overly broad.”
“You have sexual predators — you have people who are going to use these local ordinances as cover,” said Artiles. “I want uniformity acorss the board, and not laws subjective to the way people feel.” Artiles’ bill would override all such local laws.

Artiles insisted there is evidence that local transgender anti-discrimination laws have resulted in public-safety threats in restrooms, and he said there was an example Miami-Dade County. However, he declined to cite an example for BuzzFeed News, saying his staff would email that information on Feb. 6. At the time this story was published, neither Artiles nor his staff provided any example of such a problem.

“I’d be curious if you found any evidence of that,” Richardson said. He said LGBT advocates and others he has spoken to have found zero examples of local anti-discrimination laws in Florida being used by predators to prowl restrooms.
Ironically, Rep. Richardson said, the bill could create a new public-safety problem for kids. For example, a father could not take his daughter into the restroom with him, he said. “Parents with small children should be concerned about sending their tiny children into a public bathroom by themselves.”

The bill would also allow transgender men into women’s rooms. “If this bill were passed, you’d have women who look like women going into the men’s room, and you’d have men who look like men going into the women’s room,” Jim Harper, a spokesperson for Equality Florida, told BuzzFeed News.

“I think the representative shows a profound misunderstanding of who transgender people are,” Harper said, “It’s a mean-spirited solution to a non-existent problem.”
Artiles said he does not believe transgender people themselves pose a threat in restrooms, but, rather, that anti-discrimination laws allow criminals into restrooms under the pretense of being transgender. “The whole purpose of the bill is the safety of the general public, not people of a specific gender,” said Artiles.

He added that he open to amendments to the bill and hearing form constituents. “I am here to work with everyone, but my number-one concern is public safety.”
“I have read the blogs that say I am against transgender people, but I am not at all,” Artiles said. Asked if he believes a transgender woman is a woman, Artiles said, “I am not going to get into that. I have not spent much time thinking about that.”
Click to expand...


What an asshole.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
“It’s their plumbing that determines where they go to the bathroom,” Artiles said. Asked to clarify, he added, “Their anatomy is going to dictate where they go to the bathroom.”
Click to expand...

What about post-op transgendered people?
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
"I'm not trying to make their lives difficult, I'm just implying they're likely to engage in predatory and criminal activity."
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Krejlooc said:
What about post-op transgendered people?
Click to expand...

why distinguish? if a person is a female, they're a female or vice versa. Perpetuating the need for surgery is silly and damaging for many transgender people who for one reason or another can't or don't want surgery. Its not a necessity to be a "true" female or male

I've never understood peoples fascination with others genitalia
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
“People are not forced to go the restroom. They choose to go to the restroom.”
Click to expand...

That quote is like some insane bullshit I can't even imagine how anyone could come up with.
 
N

NumberTwo

Paper or plastic?
There is no justification for treating human beings like this. Completely void of compassion or empathy, this guy is an asswipe.
 
Clockwork

Clockwork

Member
The guy is clearly a moron, but I think one question is valid.

How do you stop someone who is not transgender from taking advantage of this situation?

It's not a ridiculous slippery slope argument like you sometime see. I could actually see this as being a valid question (although incidence of happening is likely minimal).
 
S

Somnid

Member
I don't know why bathrooms are segregated to begin with (seperate but equal?). In college we voted to make the dorm bathroom unisex because there was a group of girls who were always hanging out in our hallway. Sobriety aside, society didn't collapse.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
why distinguish?
Click to expand...

I'm not, I'm merely finding the flaws in his reasoning.

Another example: What about people who have disfiguring accidents? Would this guy really deny a male-born soldier admission into a men's restroom if he'd survived, say, an explosion that "messed with his plumbing"?

Last I checked, every restroom has water closets in them, and those are accommodating to all sorts of naughty bits. allowing admission based on presence or lack-of dangling bits is a bit crazy.

I mean, clearly, this dude's line of reasoning is "let's keep people born male out of female restrooms" and he's trying to come up with a "scientific" classification why. I bet the guy would have just as many problems with a post-op transgendered person entering a restroom, despite his stated reasoning. Hence his stated reasoning is bullshit.

Of course, everybody already knows this.
 
A

Apath

Member
Clockwork said:
The guy is clearly a moron, but I think one question is valid.

How do you stop someone who is not transgender from taking advantage of this situation?

It's not a ridiculous slippery slope argument like you sometime see. I could actually see this as being a valid question (although incidence of happening is likely minimal).
Click to expand...
This is my line of thinking as well.

I have zero issue with a transgendered person using the restroom they identify with. But it kind of begs the question what's to stop anyone from using any bathroom, or at what point do you draw the line for identifying as transgendered? Can a guy dressed as a guy, claiming to be a woman, use the female restroom? Do they need to dress like a woman? Have a driver's license that says "Female?"
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Kenak said:
This is my line of thinking as well.

I have zero issue with a transgendered person using the restroom they identify with. But it kind of begs the question what's to stop anyone from using any bathroom, or at what point do you draw the line for identifying as transgendered? Can a guy dressed as a guy, claiming to be a woman, use the female restroom? Do they need to dress like a woman? Have a driver's license that says "Female?"
Click to expand...

Well...how often does that actually happen?
 
B

brotherbean

Member
All nonsense aside, how does one enforce such an asinine idea as this? Crotch checks at the door? Do you get any sort of post-op certificate that you'll need to carry around with you just in case you need to use the facilities? What a stupid waste of resources it is for people like this to sit around thinking up new ways to burden others with their own beliefs.
 
A

Apath

Member
The Technomancer said:
Well...how often does that actually happen?
Click to expand...
Sorry--was not trying to make the claim that it is such a strong issue as to ban transgendered people from using the bathroom they identify with.

I agree that the infrequency of it greatly diminishes how impactful that factor would be, but it's still an interesting question and is worth addressing none the less.
 
P

Perspicacity

Banned
Clockwork said:
The guy is clearly a moron, but I think one question is valid.

How do you stop someone who is not transgender from taking advantage of this situation?

It's not a ridiculous slippery slope argument like you sometime see. I could actually see this as being a valid question (although incidence of happening is likely minimal).
Click to expand...

We don't currently use magic protection spells that keep dicks out of women's washrooms. If a sexual predator wants in there then they aren't fucking empowered by the fact that trans men and women are.

Kenak said:
I agree that the infrequency of it greatly diminishes how impactful that factor would be, but it's still an interesting question.
Click to expand...

"What if aliens started attacking us from orbit?" is an interesting question, but it doesn't mean we need to start building battlestations on the moon
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Kenak said:
Sorry--was not trying to make the claim that it is such a strong issue as to ban transgendered people from using the bathroom they identify with.

I agree that the infrequency of it greatly diminishes how impactful that factor would be, but it's still an interesting question and is worth addressing none the less.
Click to expand...

I suppose it is, but in the same way as "well what's to stop two straight people from pretending to be gay to get marriage benefits"?
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
Serious question: which restroom do transgender people go to?

What if you're a crossdresser who identifies as a female or male?

This shit gets confusing when there's no binary male/female anymore. Maybe we should just go back to non-separated bathrooms with only stalls. I don't know anymore.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
This sounds like one of the dumbest ideas.

Even ignoring how assholish it is, how does he think men are going to react to a woman entering the men's restroom, or vice-versa?
 
A

Apath

Member
The Technomancer said:
I suppose it is, but in the same way as "well what's to stop two straight people from pretending to be gay to get marriage benefits"?
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing how it is similar. People get married for countless reasons besides love, but on the basis of abusing the system, it doesn't directly harm anyone.

At the very least, society punishing creepers and not enabling them is an issue that can directly harm people.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Timeaisis said:
Serious question: which restroom do transgender people go to?

What if you're a crossdresser who identifies as a female or male?

This shit gets confusing when there's no binary male/female anymore. Maybe we should just go back to non-separated bathrooms with only stalls. I don't know anymore.
Click to expand...

You go to the bathroom you identify and feel most comfortable in.

Its not complicated at all. If you identify as male, you go to the guys room, you identify as female you go there.

Simple, and don't confuse crossdressing with transgender, they're completely different.
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I say we just get rid of separate bathrooms altogether and greatly increase the privacy within the bathrooms with much better stalls and barriers, white noise speakers, etc.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
What's the name of that really manly looking man with a vagina? Really ripped, tattoos, and beard? But with lady plumbing

He should walk into a restroom with the lawmakers wife and say he's in there because of her husband
 
M

Madness

Member
Timeaisis said:
Serious question: which restroom do transgender people go to?

What if you're a crossdresser who identifies as a female or male?

This shit gets confusing when there's no binary male/female anymore. Maybe we should just go back to non-separated bathrooms with only stalls. I don't know anymore.
Click to expand...

This argument always gets thrown out in these kinds of threads. The overwhelming majority of people are not transgender. Segregated bathrooms arose because of the need to prevent women from being harassed by men, and restrooms are often a point of sexual assault. Many women also feel uncomfortable going to the bathroom if they are sharing it with men. When I volunteered for campus security in my undergrad days, we were always mindful of the restrooms that were in distant areas and a few women even complained the lighting wasn't adequate near their washrooms in a specific area.

This is such a small issue, because transgender people are, and will always been such a small minority of people in the country, less than 0.5% of the given population. Let them choose what bathroom they'd be comfortable in, rather than put the remaining women at risk or making them uncomfortable in non-segregated bathrooms, especially in the age of "creepshots" and voyeurs with easily hidden cameras.

I think this is also a western perspective. For many Asian countries, this is such a huge problem, they even have trains, subway cars, buses that are gender segregated to protect women at times.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Kenak said:
Sorry--was not trying to make the claim that it is such a strong issue as to ban transgendered people from using the bathroom they identify with.

I agree that the infrequency of it greatly diminishes how impactful that factor would be, but it's still an interesting question.
Click to expand...

It's not like we don't already have a lengthy process in place for people wanting to transition where they have to spend months/years meeting regularly with their doctors, psychologists, and psychiatrists. It's a medical matter, the point is to make sure that there really is a conflict between an individual's chromosomal gender and their brain's gender, and not just psychological confusion stemming from other underlying social or sexual trauma/conflict.

You can't just say "I'm transgender." and presto, society recognizes that you are. There's a lot involved in it, especially if you want to get surgery, from what I understand.

And it's not like the recognition of sexual predation is dependent on social gender cues.
 
R

Raptor2155

Member
This Republican anti-science bullshit really needs to stop. Why don't you take some time to learn about what being transgender means before you throw out some fucked up legislation. Gender is not a black and white issue.
 
N

Newt

Member
I agree with him in some aspects. Biological sex is the only way to objectively segregate people. That being said, I don't think his solution is the right one.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
APKmetsfan said:
You go to the bathroom you identify and feel most comfortable in.

Its not complicated at all. If you identify as male, you go to the guys room, you identify as female you go there.

Simple, and don't confuse crossdressing with transgender, they're completely different.
Click to expand...

I know they are different, as one can dress as an opposite gender and still identify as their own. They can also, however, dress as an opposite gender and identify with that gender, as well.

I guess I'm still confused. What if a biological man, who doesn't look like a woman, goes into the women's room because he (or I suppose she) identifies as a woman? Is that OK? I think this is far less simple than you are making it out to be.

Full disclosure: I could care less who goes into what bathroom, but I think it's worth discussing as people seem to be very sensitive to this whole thing.

Madness said:
This argument always gets thrown out in these kinds of threads. The overwhelming majority of people are not transgender. Segregated bathrooms arose because of the need to prevent women from being harassed by men, and restrooms are often a point of sexual assault. Many women also feel uncomfortable going to the bathroom if they are sharing it with men. When I volunteered for campus security in my undergrad days, we were always mindful of the restrooms that were in distant areas and a few women even complained the lighting wasn't adequate near their washrooms in a specific area.

This is such a small issue, because transgender people are, and will always been such a small minority of people in the country, less than 0.5% of the given population. Let them choose what bathroom they'd be comfortable in, rather than put the remaining women at risk or making them uncomfortable in non-segregated bathrooms, especially in the age of "creepshots" and voyeurs with easily hidden cameras.

I think this is also a western perspective. For many Asian countries, this is such a huge problem, they even have trains, subway cars, buses that are gender segregated to protect women at times.
Click to expand...

FYI, I agree with you. I only brought it up because of this issue presented. That's why I said "I don't know" afterwards. I'm not going to pretend I'm knowledgeable on this issue. I'm just trying to bring up obvious questions and possible solutions, but, as you said, it's obviously not a very good solution.
 
E

Earthstrike

Member
To pile onto the reasons why this is idiotic, what are they going to do for enforcement? Have a bathroom police? Camera's in washrooms? How much is the government going to have to spend?

Of course making such arguments in mostly frivolous. There is no genuine vested interest in public policy here. Rather is it the act of blind discrimination.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Bobby Kotick, former CEO of Activision, Interested in Buying Tik-Tok
2 3
143
7K
Gameplay Gods Bless replied
Vince McMahon / Brock Lesner Accused of Sex Trafficking and other weird shit
2 3
149
14K
Grildon Tundy replied
Time to invest in the AI girlfriend world
25
2K
hybrid_birth replied
  • Locked
Elon Musk vs Brazil’s Federal Supreme Court
Social Opinion News
12
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Interview: Most Entertainment News Sites to Go Broke By Mid 2024, Says CinemaBlend Founder
2
51
3K
kruis replied
Top Bottom