Aye, thought this for ages, but GAF seems to adore him, so it's been pointless even trying to debate it. I think we've actually gone past the point where a legitimate examination of Shu's record is in order. No pun intended. lol.
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Layoffs at DriveClub developer Evolution, [UPDATE: 55 laid off (~50% of studio)]
- Thread starter Quentyn
- Start date
Soul Sacrifice, Freedom Wars, Tearaway, The Last of Us, Gravity Rush, Driveclub etc and many second party games, what about these?
But sales and Metascore unfortunately are the only things that matter for them.
bananafactory
Banned
People acting like this problem is exclusive to Sony WWS and not a common problem in the entire AAA industry these days.
or if its a AAA game or not.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yes but they recently talked about F2P being a big focus for them on PS4 in the next few years.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-we-fully-believe-in-free-to-play/1100-6425657/
Let's Positive thinking!
On a serious note, sucks to hear it confirmed, and this news is pretty bad. Hopefully we get some news about GT or something finally this E3
software as a service = getting money from people on a regular basis
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Yes, layoffs happen...to contractors. Not main staff members who get shuffled around and laid off and are put on "service" duty instead of crafting a new game.
It's like, totally different.
Delusibeta
Banned
I'll be genuinely surprised if this doesn't change into a full shutdown once the Driveclub season pass content is completed.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Sounds like the PS Plus edition is gonna be a F2P microtransaction mess.
I guess that explains the delay while they figure out how to monetize that stuff.
RIP Motorstorm.
I guess that explains the delay while they figure out how to monetize that stuff.
RIP Motorstorm.
So Evolution becomes a F2P company (well, once they finally release DriveClub PS+ "free" addition)?
Sad to hear that but I expected something like this since their catastrophic launch.
Evolution is a great company building racing games with single player experiences but it is a terrible company building online experiences, so this restructuring will almost certainly fail.
Sad to hear that but I expected something like this since their catastrophic launch.
Evolution is a great company building racing games with single player experiences but it is a terrible company building online experiences, so this restructuring will almost certainly fail.
SerTapTap
Member
No, it's not, because we already know what it will have. Limited tracks, no tour events, limited cars, buy the main game to get access to get all content into it. The game would need major reworking to be a "microtransaction mess" and they already have the PS+ version's content carved out (and it's why the plat doesn't require Tour events)
Coin Return
Loose Slot
It's surprising this hasn't happened already. With the year long delay and botched release of PS4's only exclusive racing game, they don't deserve to make a new title.
double jump
you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
what does this mean for motorstorm ps4 ?
You're missing the distinction between contractors and regular studio staff. This isn't project-end winding down. Your concern that people are playing it up because it's a particular company is misplaced; it is bad news and most are pretty bummed out about it.
Doug Heffernan
Member
"Games as a service" typically means microtransactions.
Sidewinder
Member
Yes alas, we might see a seaon 2 though, but when interest dies down for DC, they'll shut Evo down for good.
dugdug
Banned
You have a point, but, we don't hear this happening to Nintendo or MS nearly as often.
Though, that could be due to the fact that Sony has more studios in it's stable. I don't know. Either way it sucks.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Games as a service
Hmm, makes me think they'll be continuing what they're doing with the season pass. That'd be pretty cool.
Hmm, makes me think they'll be continuing what they're doing with the season pass. That'd be pretty cool.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
How much control can one man really have though on the quality of a game? TBH I thought that Yoshida was terrible and needed to go but realistically, he gave developers as many chances as possible and they simply shit the bed. Driveclub for example had a huge delay and the developers still got it horrible wrong, RAD had an amazing track record and they fucked it up with Order 1886, there is not much anyone could have done about that besides never giving them a budget in the first instance to make a game.
Yoshida ain't a developer, how it is his fault is game developers cant successfully develop games? Another example is Stig, dude had several years to make a game and it was a complete fuck up, if you can't have the guy behind GOW 3 make another successful IP then the developers are doing something seriously wrong. Being the head of first party studios is like being the manager of a football team; you're only as good as your players and unfortunately Yoshida doesn't have the best players around.
backbreaker65
Banned
There are a shit load of games that should be Games as a Service
1. Madden
2. NBA 2K
3. MLB The Show
4. Call of Redundancy
5. Battlefield Redux
6. Gran Turismo
7. Forza.
These games for the Generation of the Console should be a service. Buy the Games first iteration of the Console Generation and follow it up with nice little updates for a minimal fee. The Golf Club does this very thing. Gran Turismo 5 was great at doing this also.
1. Madden
2. NBA 2K
3. MLB The Show
4. Call of Redundancy
5. Battlefield Redux
6. Gran Turismo
7. Forza.
These games for the Generation of the Console should be a service. Buy the Games first iteration of the Console Generation and follow it up with nice little updates for a minimal fee. The Golf Club does this very thing. Gran Turismo 5 was great at doing this also.
I think the echo chamber and the scrutiny surrounding Sony World Wide Studios is so ridiculous overblown that we can't get a real metric of how things actually are. Lots of studios lay off after a big project completes, yet we only ever seem to see it announced in a million places when it's a Sony WWS brand. I think that kind of skews the situation a bit and makes any real discussion about Shu's record kind of pointless. Not to mention, who should we be comparing his current performance to in the same market? Microsoft? Nintendo? Nobody is in the position Sony is in, so I'm not sure what type of useful information we can glean by getting all rabid about how Sony's development studios also go through layoffs just like everyone else.
Maybe they can balance a season 2 for DC, against a european arm for PD going forward. Hell knows that PD could use the help in getting GT7 ready (they could also use a bit of western idea's in the GT series)
Umm its right in the OP.
TrojanBlade
Member
I thought the game sold well despite the screw ups that Evo did at release? This is why a game should be delayed as much as possible to be the most polished product instead of releasing it earlier due to pressure from forums and then deal with the consequences.
I just hope they are allowed to make DC2 and the next MS. They should not be put to side to do maintenance work and waste such awesome talent. Hope Sony is not that dumb.
I just hope they are allowed to make DC2 and the next MS. They should not be put to side to do maintenance work and waste such awesome talent. Hope Sony is not that dumb.
I'm butthurt that I no can longer look forward to Motorstorm or WipEout.
Also friends of mine have been laid off from London, Cambridge and Liverpool over the years
kriskrosbbk
Member
Poor team.Driveclub is amazing.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Secretly. I am hoping that they are working on cities. I will pay good money for a city DLC.
anything is possible. I still think there is a small chance that if they can roll out a f2p version, they might make some real monies.
Yesterday, I was having a convo for the umteenth time about game design and the choices made by Evo wrt DC. One of the choices they made was in creating a purely skilled based game with the 'one more time' hook of old arcade stuff instead of modern design, which seeks to make the player feel good above all else.
Now, for that to be profitable, you have to put the game in front of lots and lots of people because only a small percentage will get hooked. And that is where the PS+ version was supposed to come into play. Not having that meant the game design kneecaped sales because of word of mouth and reviews.
So the question is, what happened to the online? Who is to blame? Ultimately we'll never know. But IMO, it is the person who decided against a beta, and that persn doesn't necesiari8ly work @ Evo.
krimsoncharge
Member
Any idea how many people were let go? Is rushy safe?
Orniletter
Banned
That he gave his ok to fund a project by the team that made 3 successful games in more or less the same style is not some stroke of genious.
So today's news hints at the possible snuffing of a sequel to not only one of my favourite simcade racers ever released, but my favourite stealth action game too. I feel like it's going to be Project Gotham Racing all over again .
; _ ;
That you think they "sold like shit" just highlights the problems with this industry. Everything has to sell millions of millions because budgets are ballooning so we can have "AWESOME PARTICLE EFFECTS" and "POST PROCESSING" and "ULTRA HIGH RESOLUTION TEXTURES!"
This industry is garbage. Chasing power will strangle every last ounce of creativity from it.
entremet
Member
Last Motorstorm on PS3 bombed. I think the franchise is dead.
I wonder if the "PS+ edition" might evolve into a free-to-play approach where you can bolt content onto the game in a piecemeal format.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Orniletter
Banned
The only great game on that list is The Last of Us, the rest is mediocre at best.
The person you quoted has a point.
You know what my favourite game of this gen is? Resogun, it is just an utter joy to play. I bet the budget on that was not great and yet it looks, sounds and plays better than anything else I've played all gen.
OmegaDL50
Member
The layoffs along the likes of Sucker Punch, the situation with Amy Hennig at Naughty Dog, the Sony Santa Monica layoffs alongside Stig Asmussen leaving, and now Evolution.
This really doesn't sit well with me. I hope Shu isn't trying to become the Iwata of Sony in ousting it's western studios. Even if this is somewhat an exaggeration on my part. I think Sony needs to focus own strengths by capitalizing on it's 1st party studios, rather then wide scale layoffs and high profile employees leaving.
With the upcoming release of Bloodborne and Uncharted 4 coming out eventually, hopefully things will improve. Well I'm not sure if I can count Bloodborne seeing it's a joint project between From and SCEJ, still in my opinion it's better to have more original and unique profile of games at your disposal (.i.e first party exclusives) rather than entirely become reliant on 3rd party releases. It's these original titles is what makes a platform standout from the rest of the competition, and I'm all for the unique experiences to be had. This is coming from someone who has no hardware preference owning a Wii U, a PS4, and Gaming PC.
Which does strike me as odd. Layoffs would suggest that they didn't meet a financial target, which absolutely suggests that it didn't sell well enough. But that's at odds with the statement. Did some other source of funding fall through?
That's actually fine (outside the layoffs which suck), every 12 months do an "expansion pack" with a new location or two and a dozen tracks + some new cars" and sell it for $15-20. Keep adding core features, and maybe think up some new game styles to add for single player besides race/drift/time trial.
There's not really a big reason to need a sequel these days with a racing game if the core game is good and can be improved. Sequel is just a boxed version of new campaign with new tracks & cars and they can do that through expansions.
But yeah, sad to hear about all the layoffs, but the launch disaster was going to hit the studio hard eventually.
There's not really a big reason to need a sequel these days with a racing game if the core game is good and can be improved. Sequel is just a boxed version of new campaign with new tracks & cars and they can do that through expansions.
But yeah, sad to hear about all the layoffs, but the launch disaster was going to hit the studio hard eventually.
Looking at those buggies and Sony declaring DC as a "service", Evolution could potentially use the DC platform for launching an expansion with dirt tracks and other offroaders to be a call back to Motorstorm and its legitimate preview; Motorstorm 3.5.
Appraisal at the right time can make all the difference in the world, or it ought to. After Evolution is done releasing all the planned content for DC and the PS plus edition, an assessment of the ROI should be done and projects with known brand recognition such Wipeout and next Motorstorm can be developed.
The last Motorstorm didn't sell well because while it was ambitious, it lacked the focus that Pacific Rift possessed and the launch coincided with the terrible tsunami. Furthermore, the next Wipeout can be launched as digital download only akin to Wipeout HD and have commensurate dev budget.
Appraisal at the right time can make all the difference in the world, or it ought to. After Evolution is done releasing all the planned content for DC and the PS plus edition, an assessment of the ROI should be done and projects with known brand recognition such Wipeout and next Motorstorm can be developed.
The last Motorstorm didn't sell well because while it was ambitious, it lacked the focus that Pacific Rift possessed and the launch coincided with the terrible tsunami. Furthermore, the next Wipeout can be launched as digital download only akin to Wipeout HD and have commensurate dev budget.