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League of Legends World Championship 2016 |SEP 29-OCT 29|

H

Hubb

Member
zkylon said:
i feel like these kids shouldn't be judged too severly for how they act in the heat of the moment when they're frustrated and angry and feel as much pressure as they do
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I don't believe I am judging him too severely, in fact when he calls his bot lane D5 I actually agree with what he is saying. At the same time there are MORE times when he is just being a little shit. Most people are little shits at one point in time or another, and someone has to call them out or they will never learn. If you put Dardoch on a team that never loses I am sure he would be a great team member, but that isn't realistic. He needs to learn how to lose and realize how much he is hurting his team outside the game.

Again, I don't get to see everything this is all coming off of this doc + what has been put out in public.

I do agree that Loco seems to have done a really bad job, granted this Doc made it seem like he does nothing.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
i don't think loco did that bad of a job, he probably mostly isn't the personality match for what the team needed. loco seems like someone that would be better fit to be an analyst or a strategy guy than a full on coach, i think a coach needs to be supportive and motivating and someone u can rally behind and that you can respect and he kind of doesn't really fit that mold, specially for these players

he had a similar issue with bjergsen who was like very openly disagreeing with loco even if he did it in a way more productive way, it's still not very constructive in some of the environments these discussions happen in

so yeah it's a mix of things, dardoch is clearly a difficult person, as are piglet, fenix and even matt and lourlo to some degree, and i think everyone was looking for one magical solution while they probably needed a lot of hard work in finding the right avenues to vent their frustrations and how to be constructive and take criticism and all of that

possibly that couldn't be done with those personalities, idk

doc is pretty interesting actually, a lot less trashy than tsm's ones
 
H

Hubb

Member
I suppose I have to give Dardoch some credit, he's taking this a lot better than I thought he would on Twitter.

World's has kind of soured me on NA though. This last split I only watched a handful of games that had teams I cared about, not sure if next split will change that.
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
BreezyLimbo said:
There's some intense shit between them.

I wonder if the egos flare like this on Korean teams.
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Korean culture and esports infrastructure would prevent that shit from flying. There is a level of respect to the coaches that Dardoch simply doesn't have the capacity of exhibiting clearly. If he acted like that he would be benched and then kicked if the attitude continued. There is also better protections for coaches which gives the the liberty to do what needs to be done for the team to succeed. Here in NA that same support does not exist.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
kayos90 said:
Korean culture and esports infrastructure would prevent that shit from flying. There is a level of respect to the coaches that Dardoch simply doesn't have the capacity of exhibiting clearly. If he acted like that he would be benched and then kicked if the attitude continued. There is also better protections for coaches which gives the the liberty to do what needs to be done for the team to succeed. Here in NA that same support does not exist.
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Hrm.

That goes with my theory on why Korean teams are so dominant-because the ego is abandoned over there and they are able to work as a team more cohesively. Its a culture thing.

In NA however, the ego is inflated. Drama like this is played up(Cant forget the legendary Dyrus flying off the handle towards Reginalds passive aggressive abuse) and how much that got played up. And he stayed on the team for another 2 years after that.

I feel that until NA teams change the culture they harvest, theyll keep losing to Korean teams.
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
BreezyLimbo said:
Hrm.

That goes with my theory on why Korean teams are so dominant-because the ego is abandoned over there and they are able to work as a team more cohesively. Its a culture thing.

In NA however, the ego is inflated. Drama like this is played up(Cant forget the legendary Dyrus flying off the handle towards Reginalds passive aggressive abuse) and how much that got played up. And he stayed on the team for another 2 years after that.

I feel that until NA teams change the culture they harvest, theyll keep losing to Korean teams.
Click to expand...

When I saw that regi and dyrus clip years ago that titled me off the face of the earth. I don't care if you're famous. I don't care if you're the leader. I don't even fucking care if you're the owner. That is now how you treat a person. Regi's attitude in that clip was fucked up and clearly represents how people in NA feel. Players feel entitled to shit and show no respect. No trust. And because of this is a business leadership does not hire coaches with talent or at least potential talent. And when things don't go to plan right away they're replaced. It's pretty shit.

SKT T1 is a good example. Yes they have good players. But they also were not the best from the get go and even if they were they need good coaches and leadership in order to forge them to be the best. But part of that is the willingness of the player to believe the coach, trust them, and respect them. Kkmoa wasn't a faker. I'm sure Faker is better mechanically and probably understands the game better than Kkoma. But does Faker act like a Dardoch? No. Because he's not an entitle brat that lets his ego get to him. NA culture outside of e-sports is all kinds of fucked up when it comes to respect.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
kayos90 said:
When I saw that regi and dyrus clip years ago that titled me off the face of the earth. I don't care if you're famous. I don't care if you're the leader. I don't even fucking care if you're the owner. That is now how you treat a person. Regi's attitude in that clip was fucked up and clearly represents how people in NA feel. Players feel entitled to shit and show no respect. No trust. And because of this is a business leadership does not hire coaches with talent or at least potential talent. And when things don't go to plan right away they're replaced. It's pretty shit.

SKT T1 is a good example. Yes they have good players. But they also were not the best from the get go and even if they were they need good coaches and leadership in order to forge them to be the best. But part of that is the willingness of the player to believe the coach, trust them, and respect them. Kkmoa wasn't a faker. I'm sure Faker is better mechanically and probably understands the game better than Kkoma. But does Faker act like a Dardoch? No. Because he's not an entitle brat that lets his ego get to him. NA culture outside of e-sports is all kinds of fucked up when it comes to respect.
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Yup its not just esports that presents this problem. Its the worshipping of heroes that doesnt help. Sure someone like Faker is super fucking famous in esports, but I cant see him letting that get to his head. Maybe it does, I dont live his life, but Ive never heard him whine and complain or accounts of that from his team.

Meanwhile Dardoch is telling his team to forfeit in an LCS match or visibly giving up, and that would probably tilt his teammates off the face of the earth. Man that is fucking insane, I wouldve benched him right there on the spot if I was the owner, and then eject him from my team so that sort of toxicity is gone. Then you have Loco being physically aggressive and fidgety, probably because nobody ever told him that body language is a clear form of communication. As a coach, he should have known better. Its a failing on both parts.

And yeah, alot of it probably has to do with Western culture that inflates the individual. In a team setting like this, players need to realize that they cant do it alone and they need to shut off their ego in order to succeed.

Its a tragedy for NA, because that will probably hold them back from being competitively at a world stage.
 
H

Hydrophobic

Member
NSESN said:
I am not sure Forg1ven mentality would work with TSM.
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I think the team could work around Forg1ven, but I'm not sure if the team would work better with him necessarily. I view him a bit like a low-key UZI in terms of how teams play around him usually.
 
C

Calvero

Banned
BreezyLimbo said:
Meanwhile Dardoch is telling his team to forfeit in an LCS match or visibly giving up, and that would probably tilt his teammates off the face of the earth. Man that is fucking insane, I wouldve benched him right there on the spot if I was the owner, and then eject him from my team so that sort of toxicity is gone.
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i dunno, Piglet gave comments to David hinting that during SKT's worst periods the atmosphere was similar
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Calvero said:
i dunno, Piglet gave comments to David hinting that during SKT's worst periods the atmosphere was similar
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And its obvious that those bad periods hurt the team alot. Whatever skt is doing now is working out. I have some ideas on the mentality of it, it might be leaning to a bit more nurture than nature.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
The offseason rumor mill begins anew

Dardoch back in Liquid maybe as an ADC if they get Reignover, IMT basically disbanding, Pobelter might go to Liquid, Reignover and Huni might go back to Fnatic.

Lmao what a mess. Letting Dardoch back in is fucking asinine.
 
H

Hydrophobic

Member
Stone Ocean said:
The offseason rumor mill begins anew

Dardoch back in Liquid maybe as an ADC if they get Reignover, IMT basically disbanding, Pobelter might go to Liquid, Reignover and Huni might go back to Fnatic.

Lmao what a mess. Letting Dardoch back in is fucking asinine.
Click to expand...

CLG Please pick up Pobelter again :x
 
L

Leezard

Member
Stone Ocean said:
The offseason rumor mill begins anew

Dardoch back in Liquid maybe as an ADC if they get Reignover, IMT basically disbanding, Pobelter might go to Liquid, Reignover and Huni might go back to Fnatic.

Lmao what a mess. Letting Dardoch back in is fucking asinine.
Click to expand...

That sure is a mess.
 
S

Sr Kitsune

Member
Calvero said:
so anyone else read that report on Riot selling streaming rights to MLBAM?
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I'm fine with it, especially after this tweet:
EqLlPx6.png
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source
 
killatopak

killatopak

Member
Damn. And they even won the kespa cup just recently. Their synergy was great as well.

I wonder if they'll stay in korea or go to western/chinese teams.
 
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