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[I'm new be nice]

@I’m new be nice. You’re a pretty cool person.

Thanks a lot man

 

[Rajack]

I respectfully disagree.

You have a disgusting and narrowminded worldview then. The fact that you refuse to check your white cishet male privilege before even formulating your opinion proves that your disagreement on the matter is anything but respectful. You don't respect or recognize any trans person's identity and that mindset is not only problematic, its also dangerous. It's the same mindset that leads to violence against trans people, transwomen in particular. Did you know that we transwomen are one of the most at risk groups for hate related crimes, including and especially murder? It's all because of flawed mentalities like yours that refuse to acknowledge the bigger picture that lies beyond your own personal narrative, which is extremely invalidating and dismissive of transfolk in general. People like you make our lives hell and if you don't even feel slightly remorseful about that, then I have nothing more to say to you because you're just my enemy at that point.

 

[Dunki]

You have a disgusting and narrowminded worldview then. The fact that you refuse to check your white cishet male privilege before even formulating your opinion proves that your disagreement on the matter is anything but respectful. You don't respect or recognize any trans person's identity and that mindset is not only problematic, its also dangerous. It's the same mindset that leads to violence against trans people, transwomen in particular. Did you know that we transwomen are one of the most at risk groups for hate related crimes, including and especially murder? It's all because of flawed mentalities like yours that refuse to acknowledge the bigger picture that lies beyond your own personal narrative, which is extremely invalidating and dismissive of transfolk in general. People like you make our lives hell and if you don't even feel slightly remorseful about that, then I have nothing more to say to you because you're just my enemy at that point.

Please do not use cis since it is for many a derogatory term and is mostly used in a very negative way like your post shows as well. The only person that is toxic and has a narrowminded you is you in this thread . And I do not care if you are trans, straight, black, white or whatever it does not give you a free pass to be so hostile. Always treat people like you want to be treated. It is a basic understanding of empathy and being a human being.

 

[Rajack]

Please do not use cis since it is for many a derogatory term and is mostly used in a very negative way like your post shows as well. The only person that is toxic and has a narrowminded you is you in this thread . And I do not care if you are trans, straight, black, white or whatever it does not give you a free pass to be so hostile. Always treat people like you want to be treated. It is a basic understanding of empathy and being a human being.

It's only derogatory and disrespectful to those who refuse to recognize and check their privilege. The term cisgender is no more derogatory than the term transgender. You're letting your misogyny show. I am showing far more restraint and respect and restraint than JimmyJones or you are showing. You're not at risk of being killed like I am, you're not marginalized and have your existence constantly invalidated and erased like me, and you most certainly do not struggle and rage against an entire society built upon puritanical and imperialist principles that would see you either forced to conform, dead, or made a non-person. I have entirely every right to be angry and hostile towards people who refuse to offer simple validation to my own existence by not advertising and espousing transphobic and/or transmisogynistic sentiments.

 

[Dunki]

It's only derogatory and disrespectful to those who refuse to recognize and check their privilege. The term cisgender is no more derogatory than the term transgender. You're letting your misogyny show. I am showing far more restraint and respect and restraint than JimmyJones or you are showing. You're not at risk of being killed like I am, you're not marginalized and have your existence constantly invalidated and erased like me, and you most certainly do not struggle and rage against an entire society built upon puritanical and imperialist principles that would see you either forced to conform, dead, or made a non-person. I have entirely every right to be angry and hostile towards people who refuse to offer simple validation to my own existence by not advertising and espousing transphobic and/or transmisogynistic sentiments.

1. You used this cis as a derogatory term yourself. You know exactly when you use it and I doubt you use it in any more positive context.
2. You are also not at risk being killed in Countries America or in whole Europe. Maybe if you would live in Saudi Arabia and co it would be tue but otherwise NO you are not at risk of being killed. Stop playing a victim to silence other opinions. And please show me how they erase your existence? By not using the pronoun you want to be identified with? You know who is at the risk of being constantly erased? Kurdish people in Turkey for example. Chinese people in Japan and so on.
3. And you are not angry at people who refuse your existence you are angry because they do not think like you want them to think. You are angry because you can not deal with other opinions.

If you want to be treated as a human being and not as a victim maybe just maybe treat other people also as human beings.

 

[lifa-cobex]

It's only derogatory and disrespectful to those who refuse to recognize and check their privilege. The term cisgender is no more derogatory than the term transgender. You're letting your misogyny show. I am showing far more restraint and respect and restraint than JimmyJones or you are showing. You're not at risk of being killed like I am, you're not marginalized and have your existence constantly invalidated and erased like me, and you most certainly do not struggle and rage against an entire society built upon puritanical and imperialist principles that would see you either forced to conform, dead, or made a non-person. I have entirely every right to be angry and hostile towards people who refuse to offer simple validation to my own existence by not advertising and espousing transphobic and/or transmisogynistic sentiments.

Who's trying to kill you?

 

[Rajack]

1. You used this cis as a derogatory term yourself. You know exactly when you use it and I doubt you use it in any more positive context.
2. You are also not at risk being killed in Countries America or in whole Europe. Maybe if you would live in Saudi Arabia and co it would be tue but otherwise NO you are not at risk of being killed. Stop playing a victim to silence other opinions. And please show me how they erase your existence? By not using the pronoun you want to be identified with? You know who is at the risk of being constantly erased? Kurdish people in Turkey for example. Chinese people in Japan and so on.
3. And you are not angry at people who refuse your existence you are angry because they do not think like you want them to think. You are angry because you can not deal with other opinions.

If you want to be treated as a human being and not as a victim maybe just maybe treat other people also as human beings.

Wow...you're just getting more and more disrespectful as you stick your head further in the sand. I am very much at risk of being killed here in the United States. Much moreso than anywhere else in western society and that includes South America. Trans people are routinely targeted by hate groups like American Family Association and domestic terror groups like Proud Boys for social erasure and outright violence. Proud Boys in particular have a rather storied history of assaulting, raping, and killing trans people. Them aside, look at any of the groups listed as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center and I will guarantee you that they all engage in anti-trans activities including legislating us out of existence and committing acts of violence against us.. That's not even mentioning the police, who routinely profile and harass us under suspicion of engaging in victimless crimes like survival sex work. Just stop already. You don't understand and at this point I doubt you ever will.

 

[Dunki]

Wow...you're just getting more and more disrespectful as you stick your head further in the sand. I am very much at risk of being killed here in the United States. Much moreso than anywhere else in western society and that includes South America. Trans people are routinely targeted by hate groups like American Family Association and domestic terror groups like Proud Boys for social erasure and outright violence. Proud Boys in particular have a rather storied history of assaulting, raping, and killing trans people. Them aside, look at any of the groups listed as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center and I will guarantee you that they all engage in anti-trans activities including legislating us out of existence and committing acts of violence against us.. That's not even mentioning the police, who routinely profile and harass us under suspicion of engaging in victimless crimes like survival sex work. Just stop already. You don't understand and at this point I doubt you ever will.

Yeah I will stop since you do not understand what being at risk to be killed means for many people on this planet. People who fear for their lives on a daily basis. People who are not only hunted by your 120 people proud boys. But when you are hunted by the government and even killed for what you are. You probably has no idea what Kurdish people have to endure in Countries like Turkey. You have no idea how people based on their religion or gender are being hunted down in Pakistan.
And here is the harsh truth and my opinion:

You want to play the victim role because it is a much easier life with no responsibility just accuse everyone who disagrees with you as Transphobic or misogynistic because it is much easier than to self reflect and maybe realize that some people hate you especially not because what you identify as but because of your personality and character.


And before I stop yes there are cases regarding the police for sure. But it is not institutional at all. These are single events done by assholes who should ot be cops at all. But it is not the general opinion, it is not a majority of opinions. It is if even a very loud but also small minority. But I guess that is enough since this thread is not really about you in the first place.

And I also have never gotten a answer why transsexxuell is offensive since we are using Transsexual in Germany as scientific term and in the medical sector as well.

 

[BANGS]

Rajack, I think you need to go back to Resetera. Dismissing people's opinions for being white male cis isn't tolerated here and certainly isn't the way to have any kind of worthwhile conversation. And it does nothing to help your cause, only further divides people and makes your community look bad with people like you representing them...

 

[JimmyJones]

You have a disgusting and narrowminded worldview then. The fact that you refuse to check your white cishet male privilege

Aaaand I stopped reading.

 

[I'm new be nice]

The term Transsexual is a gross and derogatory term that should never be used. EVER. Like seriously, don't use it.

Can you provide any links about what you are talking about here? Ailynn provided some great context on this, but i'd definitely be curious if you could provide some reading material. For example in this post I provided links to Wikipedia to help bolster my point, which helps significantly when trying to convey something to detractors. In this post I linked to the Birth Order, one of my favorite examples for disproving the whole "you choose to be gay" thing.

I scanned the Transsexual article quickly to see if there was anything mentioning its use as derogatory but didn't find anything. It does say that some people reject the term, but my understanding is that is not in relation to being used as a put down but instead:

Transsexualism is often included within the broader term 'transgender', which is generally considered an umbrella term for people who do not conform to typically accepted gender roles for the sex they were assigned at birth. The term 'transgender' is a word employed by activists to encompass as many groups of gender diverse people as possible. However, many of these groups individually don't identify with the term. Many health clinics and services set up to serve gender variant communities employ the term, however most of the people using these services again don't identify with this term. The rejection of this political category by those that it is designed to cover clearly illustrates the difference between self-identification and categories that are imposed by observers to understand other people.

I apologise if I missed anything in that article related to the term's use as derogatory. I work full time and have to support myself so it's hard for me to get the time to work through a ton of articles these days. I can assure you that when I get around to adjusting the Terms in the OP I will be sure to include a caveat about the Term regardless, despite not being able to find any information on its use as derogatory. If you do find something i'll be sure to provide the link in the OP!

I gave Enygger_Tzu a hard time for disregarding the spirit of this Community, and I think it's only fair I do the same for you. Please remember my OP:

The only requirements for posting are an Open Mind and an Open Heart. Please be respectful of others opinions, and always maintain basic human decency.

In this post, I feel that you should be able to make your point without including this final part:

Not even close to debatable. If she identifies on the feminine spectrum and appears female, and you're attracted to her you are straight. End of story and debate. If you don't see it that way then you are being transmisogynistic and gross.

Your post would be far more powerful and thought provoking if you were able to maintain a respectful disposition, in my opinion. I only base this on my own life experiences of speaking to others about the legitimacy of my being, and I always found holding myself to a higher standard than the one degrading me was the most effective strategy. Just look at the way many of the posters in this very thread have responded positively towards more gentle and understanding attempts for clarity on who we are. Wouldn't you find it in your own interest to use the most effective strategy? Why lower yourself to their level? Why not hold yourself to the highest standard? If you lower yourself then you've already lost, I feel.

You have a disgusting and narrowminded worldview then. The fact that you refuse to check your white cishet male privilege before even formulating your opinion proves that your disagreement on the matter is anything but respectful. You don't respect or recognize any trans person's identity and that mindset is not only problematic, its also dangerous. It's the same mindset that leads to violence against trans people, transwomen in particular. Did you know that we transwomen are one of the most at risk groups for hate related crimes, including and especially murder? It's all because of flawed mentalities like yours that refuse to acknowledge the bigger picture that lies beyond your own personal narrative, which is extremely invalidating and dismissive of transfolk in general. People like you make our lives hell and if you don't even feel slightly remorseful about that, then I have nothing more to say to you because you're just my enemy at that point.

There's that disgust terminology again, taking what could be an otherwise intensely powerful statement and tainting it, entirely removing any forward momentum you could have attained.

I have entirely every right to be angry and hostile towards people who refuse to offer simple validation to my own existence by not advertising and espousing transphobic and/or transmisogynistic sentiments.

This is such a powerful and honest statement, and it's completely true. You do have every right to be angry and hostile. The question is what do you do with those rights? I have every right to be angry at the bullies who used to take my bike and ghost ride it into the wall, bending the front wheel. I am entirely justified in my anger over the years of ostracization I faced in my small 500 person town for 19 years. TRUE. The question is what are we going to do about that?

And so we end up at a crossroads. Era has decided that we should be instantly irate, entirely vengeful, and purely focused on the attack.

And you know maybe they're right. Maybe that is the answer. Maybe the only way to win normalicy is to be entirely hostile to everyone, and label everyone who doesn't accept us as Disgusting.

But in my experience that isn't how it has worked. In my small little life the way I changed minds was by trying to forgive, and by trying to educate with earnesty and love. And that's just how its been for me. And if we both have different ideas on what the solution should be, then that's okay! I've created an outlet for myself here, and they've created their outlet there.

We're both trying to work towards the same solution, and if either one happens to work, then we both win. I think this thread has come to a good start thus far, and i'm hopeful that we can maintain peaceful and loving forward momentum towards a harmonious existence for everyone.

The Taoists believe that from all perspectives there is both a higher and a lower place, and I believe that what this tells us is that everyone, from all walks of life, can understand what it means to be oppressed or hurt. We may all have different ways of being hurt, but pain is universal, and if you appeal to someone's humanity you might be surprised by their response.

All and all I want nothing but the absolute actualization of your ideal self, and I hope nothing but the best for you. I greatly appreciate your participation in this thread thus far, I hope you can find it in yourself to follow the pace i'm trying to set for respectful dialogue between our two camps, and I hope that we can all get along and learn and grow together.

 

[No Word Count]

And the behaviour in this thread right here is why identity politics are a horrible idea. Rajack 's flagrant bigotry is an embarrassment to us all.

I am queer and bisexual, but I as long as I've been on this planet, I have been legitimately unable to understand the necessity of creating LGBT communities, LGBT pride, and other such arbitrary groupings.

What is the point? I find it impossible to connect with another person based solely on the fact that they're also LGBT, just as I find it impossible to connect with someone solely because of the colour of the skin or their gender.

The way I see it, my sexuality simply is what it is. Why would I hang around with people just because they're like me? Why do I need a need a special day to express it? Why do I need to publicly shove it in people's faces?

I have had very little hassle about my sexuality throughout my life, largely because I decided it's nobody's business but mine. If people want to be accepted for who they are, making a scene of it or isolating themselves into cliques of similarly minded people does not seem like the most productive approach. If you want to be an accepted part of society, you have to integrate into it.

I've had people outright condemn me for having this perspective. I've seen more hate and mockery from the LGBT community for this than I ever have from any straight people. Very few people care anymore. They only thing they generally care about, from my experience, is when you make a spectacle of yourself or go out of your way to draw attention to why you're different. It reeks of insecurity to me.

What am I failing to understand here? These are legitimate questions, and I am genuinely interested in a discussion about this.

 

[I'm new be nice]

And the behaviour in this thread right here is why identity politics are a horrible idea. Rajack's flagrant bigotry is an embarrassment to us all.

I am queer and bisexual, but I as long as I've been on this planet, I have been legitimately unable to understand the necessity of creating LGBT communities, LGBT pride, and other such arbitrary groupings.

What is the point? I find it impossible to connect with another person based solely on the fact that they're also LGBT, just as I find it impossible to connect with someone solely because of the colour of the skin or their gender.

The way I see it, my sexuality simply is what it is. Why would I hang around with people just because they're like me? Why do I need a need a special day to express it? Why do I need to publicly shove it in people's faces?

I have had very little hassle about my sexuality throughout my life, largely because I decided it's nobody's business but mine. If people want to be accepted for who they are, making a scene of it or isolating themselves into cliques of similarly minded people does not seem like the most productive approach. If you want to be an accepted part of society, you have to integrate into it.

I've had people outright condemn me for having this perspective. I've seen more hate and mockery from the LGBT community for this than I ever have from any straight people. Very few people care anymore. They only thing they generally care about, from my experience, is when you make a spectacle of yourself or go out of your way to draw attention to why you're different. Because it reeks of insecurity.

What am I failing to understand here? These are legitimate questions, and I am genuinely interested in a legitimate discussion.

Well first off i'll point out the irony of your question being posed in this very thread, but beyond that I pretty much agree with you fully, and honestly didn't even really want to use the LGBT+ moniker because I felt that it was outdated in general and I really don't give a shit about labels. But when I tried this last time a bunch of people came down on me for trying to move past it, and so I essentially went with the Conservative option (think about the irony in that as well...).

But anyway, yeah, there are aspects of it that should go entirely without saying, but I also think there are aspects of living like this that do change your life in significant ways as well, and it can be fun to have an outlet to talk about them.

About 5 or 10 years ago I was totally in the same train of thought as you were.

 

[BANGS]

I have had very little hassle about my sexuality throughout my life, largely because I decided it's nobody's business but mine. If people want to be accepted for who they are, making a scene of it or isolating themselves into cliques of similarly minded people does not seem like the most productive approach. If you want to be an accepted part of society, you have to integrate into it.

I've had people outright condemn me for having this perspective. I've seen more hate and mockery from the LGBT community for this than I ever have from any straight people. Very few people care anymore. They only thing they generally care about, from my experience, is when you make a spectacle of yourself or go out of your way to draw attention to why you're different. It reeks of insecurity to me.

What am I failing to understand here? These are legitimate questions, and I am genuinely interested in a discussion about this.

You hit the nail on the head IMO. Insecurity seems to be the main issue with this kind of stuff. Everyone has all kinds of issues they face in life, but non straight white cis men have this unique ability to fall back on blaming their problems on the world instead of self reflection, which leads to some insane behavior. Unfortunately a big chunk of society is encouraging this kind of stuff, I'm personally hoping it all blows over soon. If people in a minority community have concerns with society I want to hear them and help them, but when they just keep shouting that the world is against them with no facts to back them up, it's kind of hard to take them seriously and see them as anything more than a blemish on society...

 

[Dunki]

You hit the nail on the head IMO. Insecurity seems to be the main issue with this kind of stuff. Everyone has all kinds of issues they face in life, but non straight white cis men have this unique ability to fall back on blaming their problems on the world instead of self reflection, which leads to some insane behavior. Unfortunately a big chunk of society is encouraging this kind of stuff, I'm personally hoping it all blows over soon. If people in a minority community have concerns with society I want to hear them and help them, but when they just keep shouting that the world is against them with no facts to back them up, it's kind of hard to take them seriously and see them as anything more than a blemish on society...

It is not even only the insecurity but the constant brainwashing. If you get to hear how dangerous your life is as minority or in this case as trans person and this on a constant daily basis soon you will also believe that this is the case. And you will fear for your life. People need to be treated equally. Your sexuality, your gender, your sex should not matter at all. People should all be treated the same. No hostility but also no extra treatment. This is true equality we all should strive for.

for example if you have to interact with me be it on a professional level or private matter I will always treat you the same no matter what. Maybe later this will change because of your character or personality but otherwise I see no reason to treat anyone differently. Ok maybe because of age, I am usually more respectful to older people (like offering my seat in a bus or train etc.)

People just need to stop to fall for this victimhood mentality that is pretty popular these days....

 

[plushyp]

Good to see this thread in the OT. I still like GAF, but was concerned at some transphobia I've seen here at times. Ailynn has the patience of a saint.

If you do see something that doesn't fit the nature of Gaf, then please report. The mod team is pretty active and takes the reports seriously.

 

[No Word Count]

It is not even only the insecurity but the constant brainwashing.

I think that one feeds into the other. It is an unfortunately dangerous combination.

There was a time when I was very much sucked into the victimhood mentality myself. It's a very safe mentality, at least initially. It allows you take the blame off yourself and throw it on to everyone else. In the long term however, it causes untold amounts of damage to your long term friendship and family ties.

Thankfully, I realised that sooner rather than later myself. When I stopped taking my personal resentment out on the world, things improved practically overnight.

If someone's life appears to be surrounded by negativity, it may be time for them to look inward a little more, and understand that well... the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

[Marshmallow]

but when they just keep shouting that the world is against them with no facts to back them upy...

So... we all imagined those higher suicide rates, religion that hate LGBT people, and homophobia? Oh man, I wish I had know all the bad things I had experienced for being gay weren't true.

 

[Dunki]

So... we all imagined those higher suicide rates, religion that hate LGBT people, and homophobia? Oh man, I wish I had know all the bad things I had experienced for being gay weren't true.

The question again why are these rates so high? because they are hated or because they got brainwashed thinking everyone is against them? Also let us not forget that the highest suicide rate is still white males something many of these activists seem to have serious anger against.

Look I do not want to ridicule these statistics but I also want to know where do these come from

 

[Marshmallow]

because they are hated or because they got brainwashed thinking everyone is against them?

Yes of course, I was brainwashed. Again, I'm sorry the homophobia I experience growing up was a lie apparently. That religion calling me an abomination? A lie too. Oh, and I shouldn't have been terrified of my parents finding out my sexuality, it's not like my life depended on it.

Jeez, we LGBT are so stupid.

 

[BANGS]

So... we all imagined those higher suicide rates, religion that hate LGBT people, and homophobia? Oh man, I wish I had know all the bad things I had experienced for being gay weren't true.

In what universe do suicide statistics have anything to do with proving that the world is against you? You do realize what suicide is right? Wow... how dare you stand on those people's graves to push your narrative...

As far as many other injustices you will find, you have to realize you will find such injustices no matter who you are. We all face horrible injustices every day. For example I too was ostracized by my parents for something that had nothing to do with my sexuality. I'm not downplaying your awful experiences, I'm just saying you need to stop playing them up. The world isn't against you, most of western society supports you, bootstraps and all that... Take charge of your life and overcome adversity instead of blaming adversity for everything wrong in your life. If you think the world is all sunshine and rainbows for everyone else, you got a lot to learn...

 

[Dunki]

Yes of course, I was brainwashed. Again, I'm sorry the homophobia I experience growing up was a lie apparently. That religion calling me an abomination? A lie too. Oh, and I shouldn't have been terrified of my parents finding out my sexuality, it's not like my life depended on it.

Jeez, we LGBT are so stupid.

you grew up . This is the first thing. Is this still the case except maybe in the Islam and hardcore religious people. Are we talking now or past . In the past I would even agree with you. But otherwise? No not really anymore.

Hell right now I get told on social media and by so called news media thatbeing gay is now the norm and accepted while being straight these days is seen as negative because you are the oppressor etc.

Try to discriminate against a gay person in your Job and you are gone faster than you can say faggot. No I do not think so. As trans person therefore certainly thinks we should work on like unisex bathrooms and locker rooms for example.

 

[No Word Count]

QUOTE="Marshmallow, post: 253461403, member: 744157"]So... we all imagined those higher suicide rates, religion that hate LGBT people, and homophobia? Oh man, I wish I had know all the bad things I had experienced for being gay weren't true.[/QUOTE]

I attempted suicide multiple times throughout my life. I was bullied, harassed, mocked and beaten as a child because I was openly LGBT, because I was legally blind, because I was physically weak, and because of my mental disabilities. I've seen the worst humanity is capable of, and then some.

But here's the thing. Those people... they are the minority. They are a fraction of a fraction of all the people in the world. There will always be bad people. That will never change. But they are not the majority of people, and they do not deserve all the hate because we deludy believe the world owns us some sort of righteous repentance for our suffering. They are dealing with just as much pain of their own.

You weren't lied to about what happened to you. You were lied to about who is responsible for making your life better. The world does not have to validate you, me or anyone. We can only validate ourselves.

In what universe do suicide statistics have anything to do with proving that the world is against you? You do realize what suicide is right?

If suicide rates were related to victimisation, wouldn't that mean white cis males are the most victimised people on the planet? Since they are consistently the most likely people to commit suicide.

 

[BANGS]

If suicide rates were related to victimisation, wouldn't that mean white cis males are the most victimised people on the planet? Since they are consistently the most likely people to commit suicide.

Suicide rates aren't tied to victimization, at least not exclusively. And definitely not based on minority victimization. The countries with the highest suicide rates are pretty uniform in demographics...

 

[Acerac]

Reading this thread has been exceptionally helpful after dealing with some legitimately life changing difficulties that I have dealt with due to some trans individuals on ERA. It feels like so many people are being taught to blindly hate those who are not part of their in group and the results are detrimental.

It's fucked up because I'm legitimately afraid of some of these members, I've given up dozens of friends and somebody I loved for many years over all this. I just found that the more I pushed back against the overall ERA community the more I found myself isolated from those I cared about and over time more and more lies were spread about me til I reached the point where nobody will speak with me. Well my ex will, but she thrives on halftruths so I can't see much good in talking with her.

It has sucked a lot. It is a minor solace that I've had confirmation that others have found the behavior of that community isolationist and conformist to a shocking degree. It kills me me because I've had people enter chats they admit to never reading just to attack me and it is consistently people who are trans or big in their community. I don't want to assume the worst, I know the vast majority of trans people are really cool. It's just these pockets that seem so filled with hate that I am reminded of my youth in an Evangelical Church...

Anyways, sorry for the rant, I just... dunno, am happy to see a thread that seems more welcoming. I tried so hard to maintain my relationships with the members there but no matter what I did I was pushed further and further away by those who talked so much about caring and understanding. I can not express how much my heart aches after all that has happened, but here's hoping I can move forward now that I know there is no hope in those I once cared about.

 

[Punished Miku]

Reading this thread has been exceptionally helpful after dealing with some legitimately life changing difficulties that I have dealt with due to some trans individuals on ERA. It feels like so many people are being taught to blindly hate those who are not part of their in group and the results are detrimental.

It's fucked up because I'm legitimately afraid of some of these members, I've given up dozens of friends and somebody I loved for many years over all this. I just found that the more I pushed back against the overall ERA community the more I found myself isolated from those I cared about and over time more and more lies were spread about me til I reached the point where nobody will speak with me. Well my ex will, but she thrives on halftruths so I can't see much good in talking with her.

It has sucked a lot. It is a minor solace that I've had confirmation that others have found the behavior of that community isolationist and conformist to a shocking degree. It kills me me because I've had people enter chats they admit to never reading just to attack me and it is consistently people who are trans or big in their community. I don't want to assume the worst, I know the vast majority of trans people are really cool. It's just these pockets that seem so filled with hate that I am reminded of my youth in an Evangelical Church...

Anyways, sorry for the rant, I just... dunno, am happy to see a thread that seems more welcoming. I tried so hard to maintain my relationships with the members there but no matter what I did I was pushed further and further away by those who talked so much about caring and understanding. I can not express how much my heart aches after all that has happened, but here's hoping I can move forward now that I know there is no hope in those I once cared about.

Get out of there man. Those people are religious zealots, bullies, and absolute, complete losers. None of those people are smart. Anyone who thinks for themselves will never be able to last in that environment, because the only thing that lasts is total devotion to conformity. It's a large group of people that are not intelligent enough to have their own thoughts. They are not intelligent enough to debate people and win arguments, so they resort to bullying nonstop. And none of these people are even charismatic enough to bully a paper bag in real life, so they spend all day online taking out their rage on random strangers.

These people are dragging you down, big time. Hang out on this site and spend less time online in general. Get back in touch with what it's like to talk to normal people that aren't out to hurt others just to cover up their own miserably empty lives.

 

[Acerac]

*Laughs*

I don't think there is any returning for me to any of those communities. You piss off the right people and they will do whatever it takes to make sure your ass isn't talking to anyone who goes to their site. You are right about the bullying thing, I felt bad for the one girl who kept insulting me. At a certain point it felt like she didn't even believe what she was saying and was just attacking me because it was "the right thing to do".

Still, it is tough to give up so many years of friends and loved ones; they weren't always like this, but they are not the people I once knew. When you reach a certain point with a person, acknowledging that they are gone even though they claim to still be there for you is heart-wrenching.

Simon Petrikov is long gone. Why live for somebody who doesn't care if you live or die?

 

[hecatomb]

I have nothing against trans people, though I don't like it when they try to force other people to tell them they are male or female. A true female can give birth, a true male can produce seman.

 

[mekes]

I have nothing against trans people, though I don't like it when they try to force other people to tell them they are male or female. A true female can give birth, a true male can produce seman.

Sure, but a little empathy can go a long way when amongst people who have had different life experiences to yours. Especially when their situations do you no real harm.

 

[hecatomb]

Sure, but a little empathy can go a long way when amongst people who have had different life experiences to yours. Especially when their situations do you no real harm.

I don't care if people want to be trans, but you shouldn't try to force people to call you female or male if you are not a real one. It comes down to some men also would rather date a real women, or some women want to date real men.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I have had very little hassle about my sexuality throughout my life, largely because I decided it's nobody's business but mine. If people want to be accepted for who they are, making a scene of it or isolating themselves into cliques of similarly minded people does not seem like the most productive approach. If you want to be an accepted part of society, you have to integrate into it.

I've had people outright condemn me for having this perspective. I've seen more hate and mockery from the LGBT community for this than I ever have from any straight people. Very few people care anymore. They only thing they generally care about, from my experience, is when you make a spectacle of yourself or go out of your way to draw attention to why you're different. It reeks of insecurity to me.

What am I failing to understand here? These are legitimate questions, and I am genuinely interested in a discussion about this.

This reminded me of blues musician Daryl Davis. He's a black man who for years has been befriending members of the KKK, asking questions and getting to know them as people. At first they see him as an exception to the rule, then maybe "one of the good ones," and eventually just from knowing him, they come to their own conclusion to give up their robes and give up their racist beliefs. Over 200 people have left the KKK because of him.

Why it reminded me of him, is he also has seen a lot of resistance and anger about his methods from certain progressive people.

I have nothing against trans people, though I don't like it when they try to force other people to tell them they are male or female. A true female can give birth, a true male can produce seman.

I grew up being told someone's gender is basically a synonym for their sex. Then the trans movement suggested a difference. That gender is a matter of identification and appearance, while sex is what you were born as. And I think that's a useful distinction to make. If someone looks and sounds like a woman, people who insist on addressing them as male and calling them by their birth name are only making things more confusing and socially awkward.

 

[BANGS]

Sure, but a little empathy can go a long way when amongst people who have had different life experiences to yours. Especially when their situations do you no real harm.

I've never understood this message. Calling someone the wrong thing that I don't agree with does no harm to me, but does irreparable damage to that other person? Seems a little biased and illogical to me...

 

[mekes]

I've never understood this message. Calling someone the wrong thing that I don't agree with does no harm to me, but does irreparable damage to that other person? Seems a little biased and illogical to me...

Not sure I follow. You’ll have to define what the wrong thing is that you don’t agree with? I didn’t say anything was irreparable tho, not sure why that’s aimed at my post. Biased? Not really. But I believe in treating others how I would want to be treated, that goes for everyone.

I don't care if people want to be trans, but you shouldn't try to force people to call you female or male if you are not a real one. It comes down to some men also would rather date a real women, or some women want to date real men.

The 2 things aren’t mutually exclusive. Referring to somebody by their preferred gender doesn’t mean you are dtf or make a life together. A good place to start is by simply respecting their situation. I lose you a little when you mention “forcing people to call you female or male.” Is that something you see directly week to week someplace? Or is it things you saw or participated in at OldGAF or worse yet Era?

 

[BANGS]

Not sure I follow. You’ll have to define what the wrong thing is that you don’t agree with? I didn’t say anything was irreparable tho, not sure why that’s aimed at my post. Biased? Not really. But I believe in treating others how I would want to be treated, that goes for everyone.

Sorry rereading my post didn't make much sense, I was trying to say that if a man asks me to call him a woman, it's just awkward for me to call him a woman as it is for him to be called a man...

 

[hecatomb]

Not sure I follow. You’ll have to define what the wrong thing is that you don’t agree with? I didn’t say anything was irreparable tho, not sure why that’s aimed at my post. Biased? Not really. But I believe in treating others how I would want to be treated, that goes for everyone.



The 2 things aren’t mutually exclusive. Referring to somebody by their preferred gender doesn’t mean you are dtf or make a life together. A good place to start is by simply respecting their situation. I lose you a little when you mention “forcing people to call you female or male.” Is that something you see directly week to week someplace? Or is it things you saw or participated in at OldGAF or worse yet Era?

Most people get a sex change refer themselves as what ever they got a sex change to. Then they get mad at people who don't call them that, you are basically trying to force people to call you a female when you are not one. I don't mind you got a sex change, but I'm not going to call you a female, since aka you can not give birth, and also I only date real females. You can call yourself female all you want, but you still don't have the sex organs as a female.

 

[I'm new be nice]

Most people get a sex change refer themselves as what ever they got a sex change to. Then they get mad at people who don't call them that, you are basically trying to force people to call you a female when you are not one. I don't mind you got a sex change, but I'm not going to call you a female, since aka you can not give birth, and also I only date real females. You can call yourself female all you want, but you still don't have the sex organs as a female.

If you don't want to date a Trans person I don't think you should have to feel any guilt over that, I also don't think you should have to call anybody anything you don't want to call them. I personally have no problem with it, and would totally date a Trans man in my case, it's just that the one I spoke to was incompatible with me so we moved on. But if I met the right person, Cis or Trans I wouldn't give a shit.

In your case it seems like what's really important to you is having Children, which I can totally understand.

One thing i'll say is there are plenty of biologically born women who cannot give Birth for a variety of medical reasons, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't consider them a Female.

Also in terms of Genes there are Women born with the XY chromosome but their body is unable to respond to Androgens, but you wouldn't consider them any less female, or at the very least intersex:

And just recently it was discovered that just a single Gene can be responsible for determining if you are Male or Female, and that switching this Gene will cause the body to form more of either Estrogen or Testosterone:

The DMRT1 gene is critical in the male sex determination and without this gene the default female characteristic takes over and male characteristic is slight or non-existent.

Here's a Radiolab episode dedicated to this discovery:


The line between Man and Women is far smaller than we initially realized, and if somebody has gone through the process of changing their internal chemistry to match a Womens I have no problem philosophically and medically seeing them as a women.

 

[No Word Count]

None of that changes the fact that they are either male or female. They either have male sexual organs, or female sexual organs.

Producing more of a hormones doesn't make you a different gender. Neither does whether your body is reacting to things to same as anyone else. A woman who cannot give birth is still a woman purely based on the reality that she has the sexual organs, genetic makeup and physical appearance of a woman.

Up is not down. Black is not white. Men are not women. Women are not men. You either have a vagina and can give birth, or you have a penis and can generate sperm.

Rare genetic mutations or defects and 1 in a million exceptions don't suddenly invalidate what words mean or what they refer to. They are the exceptions, not the rule.

Even hermaphrodites are born with primary sex characteristics. The very, very few exceptions are just that. Exceptions.

 

[I'm new be nice]

None of that changes the fact that they are either male or female. They either have male sexual organs, or female sexual organs.

Producing more of a hormones doesn't make you a different gender. Neither does whether your body is reacting to things to same as anyone else. A woman who cannot give birth is still a woman purely based on the reality that she has the sexual organs, genetic makeup and physical appearance of a woman.

Up is not down. Black is not white. Men are not women. Women are not men. You either have a vagina and can give birth, or you have a penis and can generate sperm.

Rare genetic mutations or defects and 1 in a million exceptions don't suddenly invalidate what words mean or what they refer to. They are the exceptions, not the rule.

Even hermaphrodites are born with primary sex characteristics. The very, very few exceptions are just that. Exceptions.

Maybe dude! There's so much we still don't know, but it seems like the more we learn the more precarious the seperation starts to become.

If a Testie can be changed to produce Estrogen in the exact same way Ovaries do by the switch of a single Gene it really does make you start to question what the definition means; in the traditional context of how we used to think about sex.

But I get where you are coming from, and if you get into situations like Fallon Fox entering a ring with biologically born Women the argument starts to break down.

There's no one way to look at it, at least not at this juncture in time, from my perspective.

 

[Ailynn]

Reading this thread has been exceptionally helpful after dealing with some legitimately life changing difficulties that I have dealt with due to some trans individuals on ERA. It feels like so many people are being taught to blindly hate those who are not part of their in group and the results are detrimental.

It's fucked up because I'm legitimately afraid of some of these members, I've given up dozens of friends and somebody I loved for many years over all this. I just found that the more I pushed back against the overall ERA community the more I found myself isolated from those I cared about and over time more and more lies were spread about me til I reached the point where nobody will speak with me. Well my ex will, but she thrives on halftruths so I can't see much good in talking with her.

It has sucked a lot. It is a minor solace that I've had confirmation that others have found the behavior of that community isolationist and conformist to a shocking degree. It kills me me because I've had people enter chats they admit to never reading just to attack me and it is consistently people who are trans or big in their community. I don't want to assume the worst, I know the vast majority of trans people are really cool. It's just these pockets that seem so filled with hate that I am reminded of my youth in an Evangelical Church...

Anyways, sorry for the rant, I just... dunno, am happy to see a thread that seems more welcoming. I tried so hard to maintain my relationships with the members there but no matter what I did I was pushed further and further away by those who talked so much about caring and understanding. I can not express how much my heart aches after all that has happened, but here's hoping I can move forward now that I know there is no hope in those I once cared about.

I'm so sorry that you dealt with all of that, and I hope you can move on to find friends that you can be more open with now. Even as a trans woman myself, I understand the worries about dealing with militant social groups, such as Era can be at times. I rarely ever post anything there, and if I do...it is usually never on anything politically sensitive. Thank you for understanding that the vast majority of trans people don't fit the negative stereotypes that have come out of the whole forum exodus last year. You certainly have friends here. ^_^

This reminded me of blues musician Daryl Davis. He's a black man who for years has been befriending members of the KKK, asking questions and getting to know them as people. At first they see him as an exception to the rule, then maybe "one of the good ones," and eventually just from knowing him, they come to their own conclusion to give up their robes and give up their racist beliefs. Over 200 people have left the KKK because of him.

Why it reminded me of him, is he also has seen a lot of resistance and anger about his methods from certain progressive people.

Thank you so much for sharing this! I wish more people in the world were like Daryl Davis. He has truly changed hearts and opened stubborn minds, and has made the world a better place with the love he has shown. He is absolutely inspirational to me.

I have nothing against trans people, though I don't like it when they try to force other people to tell them they are male or female. A true female can give birth, a true male can produce semen. - I don't care if people want to be trans, but you shouldn't try to force people to call you female or male if you are not a real one. It comes down to some men also would rather date a real women, or some women want to date real men. - Most people get a sex change refer themselves as what ever they got a sex change to. Then they get mad at people who don't call them that, you are basically trying to force people to call you a female when you are not one. I don't mind you got a sex change, but I'm not going to call you a female, since aka you can not give birth, and also I only date real females. You can call yourself female all you want, but you still don't have the sex organs as a female.

Being trans is usually no more a choice than being left-handed. It is a life-long and difficult existence, and a struggle I would not wish upon anyone. In fact, most of us have fought against it for much of our lives in order to maintain some semblance of normality within our family lives or society in general.

As LegendOfKage mentioned, if someone socially appears to be a woman and prefers to be addressed as such, yet you assume you know their chromosomal situation or what their genitalia look like and insist on calling her male pronouns, you make it more confusing and socially awkward for everyone else. It may be seen as hostile behavior by others, and most likely would not be tolerated well in the workplace under most situations. (Trust me, I used to work in Human Resources.)

Don't worry...the vast majority of trans women are not trying to force people to date them. You really shouldn't have to worry about that situation at all.




I'm new be nice , thank you so much for the awesome posts you've been making, and for showing such kindness and patience! I'm sorry I haven't had time lately to contribute very much, but you have said much of what was in my own heart. Thank you again for your continued efforts in spreading empathy for the LGBT+ community, and for being such a great person. ❤

 

[hecatomb]

I'm so sorry that you dealt with all of that, and I hope you can move on to find friends that you can be more open with now. Even as a trans woman myself, I understand the worries about dealing with militant social groups, such as Era can be at times. I rarely ever post anything there, and if I do...it is usually never on anything politically sensitive. Thank you for understanding that the vast majority of trans people don't fit the negative stereotypes that have come out of the whole forum exodus last year. You certainly have friends here. ^_^




Thank you so much for sharing this! I wish more people in the world were like Daryl Davis. He has truly changed hearts and opened stubborn minds, and has made the world a better place with the love he has shown. He is absolutely inspirational to me.




Being trans is usually no more a choice than being left-handed. It is a life-long and difficult existence, and a struggle I would not wish upon anyone. In fact, most of us have fought against it for much of our lives in order to maintain some semblance of normality within our family lives or society in general.

As LegendOfKage mentioned, if someone socially appears to be a woman and prefers to be addressed as such, yet you assume you know their chromosomal situation or what their genitalia look like and insist on calling her male pronouns, you make it more confusing and socially awkward for everyone else. It may be seen as hostile behavior by others, and most likely would not be tolerated well in the workplace under most situations. (Trust me, I used to work in Human Resources.)

Don't worry...the vast majority of trans women are not trying to force people to date them. You really shouldn't have to worry about that situation at all.




I'm new be nice , thank you so much for the awesome posts you've been making, and for showing such kindness and patience! I'm sorry I haven't had time lately to contribute very much, but you have said much of what was in my own heart. Thank you again for your continued efforts in spreading empathy for the LGBT+ community, and for being such a great person. ❤

I mean I don't care if people want to be trans, but you can't force people to call you female or male. If they think its going to make them feel better about themselves then good for them.

Also its not the same as being left handed or right handed, since you are born with hands. You are not born knowing you want to be a transgender. Also it cost a ton of money to become transgender. You also have to choose to become transgender, you don't choose to become right handed or left handed. Also you are born with a penis or a vagina. As a infant you have no choice, the only thing a infant wants is its mother. Its not thinking about a sex change.

 

[Shouta]

I mean I don't care if people want to be trans, but you can't force people to call you female or male. If they think its going to make them feel better about themselves then good for them.

Also its not the same as being left handed or right handed, since you are born with hands. You are not born knowing you want to be a transgender. Also it cost a ton of money to become transgender. You also have to choose to become transgender, you don't choose to become right handed or left handed. Also you are born with a penis or a vagina. As a infant you have no choice, the only thing a infant wants is its mother. Its not thinking about a sex change.

You totally missed the point of Ailynn's analogy. It's not about the actual hands but about what is natural for someone. Being right-handed, left-handed, or ambidextrous is something people are born with and not learned. Sure, someone people can train their non-dominant hand to get better at it but ultimately, it's not going to be as effective as using their dominant side. You'll just have less than satisfactory results. Transgender people are similar in that their identity is something they are born with. While their body may totally work fine it doesn't match how they see themselves. It makes it difficult to lead a normal life as a result. Sure, they can try to but the results aren't going to be what's best.

Do you understand what's going on for a person that is transgender? If not, please say so. Someone can explain it and so it's clear, if you'd like.

 

[Ailynn]

I mean I don't care if people want to be trans, but you can't force people to call you female or male. If they think its going to make them feel better about themselves then good for them.

Also its not the same as being left handed or right handed, since you are born with hands. You are not born knowing you want to be a transgender. Also it cost a ton of money to become transgender. You also have to choose to become transgender, you don't choose to become right handed or left handed. Also you are born with a penis or a vagina. As a infant you have no choice, the only thing a infant wants is its mother. Its not thinking about a sex change.

See, that's what I'm trying to say...being transgender and/or transsexual is not something someone simply chooses. With the majority of us, it is a condition we are born with. There may be some people who "choose" to be trans as a fad, although I am sure that that is very small percentage. There may be a small group people who 'become trans' through sexual abuse suffered as a child (such as Walt Heyer), or others who 'become trans' through pornography addiction or something similar. These are rare cases within an already small percentage of people in the population.

There has been scientific evidence for many years showing how trans people have latent sexual dimorphism and brain neurology congruent with the gender they feel they are. This was the case whether the patients had undergone medical transition or not.

Of course, a trans individual has to choose to make the decision to transition or not. They choose what clothes they wear, and how they do their hair, etc. However, the feelings of dysphoria they experience when trying to live opposite their own gender identity is absolutely not a choice. I went through over 20 years of depression, self-hatred, and a growing want for suicide while trying my best to live as a man.

To quote you from another topic:

I don't know why people think being transgender is going to make your life better. I mean you can just be gay or lesbian

If I had tried to live life as a gay man, it would have solved nothing. Once I finally started medically transitioning, I started feeling MUCH more normal and happy. A person's sexuality and their gender identity are not the same things.

Please know this reply is not in anger at all, but rather concern and in hope of helping you understand trans people better. If you have any questions, or if you even want to talk privately, I am more than welcome to help in any way.


Here is an unbiased video I just saw that tries to simply explain a few things:



- - -

(Also, Shouta ...I couldn't send you a private message, but I wanted to say thank you for being awesome.) ❤

 

[hecatomb]

You totally missed the point of Ailynn's analogy. It's not about the actual hands but about what is natural for someone. Being right-handed, left-handed, or ambidextrous is something people are born with and not learned. Sure, someone people can train their non-dominant hand to get better at it but ultimately, it's not going to be as effective as using their dominant side. You'll just have less than satisfactory results. Transgender people are similar in that their identity is something they are born with. While their body may totally work fine it doesn't match how they see themselves. It makes it difficult to lead a normal life as a result. Sure, they can try to but the results aren't going to be what's best.

Do you understand what's going on for a person that is transgender? If not, please say so. Someone can explain it and so it's clear, if you'd like.

Yes but you still have to choose to be transgender, so I don't see your point. Also Im still never going to call a transgender female, a female, I'm still going to call them a male. Like how I'm never going to call a transgender male a male, I'm still going to call her.

People have to choose to become transgender, they are not born that way. Its ok if you refuse to understand that.

 

[Ar¢tos]

So much stress about born gender/preferred gender. Just let people be who they want to be, it makes no difference to your life.
Male doesn't necessarily mean masculine, one is genetic, the other is behavioural.
I once answered a call at work (a call center) and a male voice said "my name is xxx, but please call me yyy (female name) because I am transgender", and I called her by the name she said and used feminine pronouns. It made no difference to me. I don't understand why people care so much about the sexual preference or gender preference of others when it doesn't impact their life in the slightest way.

 

[hecatomb]

So much stress about born gender/preferred gender. Just let people be who they want to be, it makes no difference to your life.
Male doesn't necessarily mean masculine, one is genetic, the other is behavioural.
I once answered a call at work (a call center) and a male voice said "my name is xxx, but please call me yyy (female name) because I am transgender", and I called her by the name she said and used feminine pronouns. It made no difference to me. I don't understand why people care so much about the sexual preference or gender preference of others when it doesn't impact their life in the slightest way.

I like how people just assume other people are against transgender people, just cause they don't want to call them female or male, when they are not one. I just said I don't care if people want to be transgender.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I like how people just assume other people are against transgender people, just cause they don't want to call them female or male, when they are not one. I just said I don't care if people want to be transgender.

And your mistake is that you think they WANT to be transgender...

 

[Shouta]

(Also, Shouta ...I couldn't send you a private message, but I wanted to say thank you for being awesome.) ❤

That's odd, I've received private messages. Also, use @ to tag someone.

Yes but you still have to choose to be transgender, so I don't see your point. Also Im still never going to call a transgender female, a female, I'm still going to call them a male. Like how I'm never going to call a transgender male a male, I'm still going to call her.

People have to choose to become transgender, they are not born that way. Its ok if you refuse to understand that.

That might be where you're misunderstanding. It's not the act of transitioning but the fact that their identity and their body don't match that makes them transgender. Transitioning is treatment to alleviate the dissonance they experience from living a life where their mind and body doesn't match.

Everyone's entitled to how they choose to act but understanding the situation is key. It's important in this day and age to do that.

So much stress about born gender/preferred gender. Just let people be who they want to be, it makes no difference to your life.
Male doesn't necessarily mean masculine, one is genetic, the other is behavioural.
I once answered a call at work (a call center) and a male voice said "my name is xxx, but please call me yyy (female name) because I am transgender", and I called her by the name she said and used feminine pronouns. It made no difference to me. I don't understand why people care so much about the sexual preference or gender preference of others when it doesn't impact their life in the slightest way.

It really boils down to how we treat each other really. If more folks were to respect a person like you do, there'd be a lot less friction overall. I think it's because nuance in opinions doesn't really exist anymore Not many folks can or are willing to separate thoughts into different perspectives. Then there are people won't accept that separation either. It's a tough thing.

 

[Ailynn]

Yes but you still have to choose to be transgender, so I don't see your point. Also Im still never going to call a transgender female, a female, I'm still going to call them a male. Like how I'm never going to call a transgender male a male, I'm still going to call her.

People have to choose to become transgender, they are not born that way. Its ok if you refuse to understand that.

I like how people just assume other people are against transgender people, just cause they don't want to call them female or male, when they are not one. I just said I don't care if people want to be transgender.

Really though, it seems obvious to me that you care a great deal about the semantics. Why are you so adamant that it is a choice? I don't want to assume, but it almost seems you are going against the rules of this topic on having an open mind at this point.

Did something happen to you to make you so unwilling to listen to the life experiences of people who suffer through gender dysphoria? Did you read my life story at the beginning of page two of this topic and see how I underwent prenatal sexual differentiation? No one can or should force you to call anyone anything, but what harm does it do in calling a trans woman a trans woman instead of calling her a male or addressing her with masculine pronouns publicly? Or the opposite of that for trans men? I'm assuming you would do the same thing to me. Even Ben Shapiro lets up on his stubbornness to call some trans women by masculine pronouns at times.

I can assure you that I never chose my gender identity as a woman, and it has at times been an extremely difficult life. Still, I am now thankful to God for the life I have been given, as I feel it helped bless me with a strong sense of empathy, patience, and love for others through all walks of life.

 

[hecatomb]

That's odd, I've received private messages. Also, use @ to tag someone.



That might be where you're misunderstanding. It's not the act of transitioning but the fact that their identity and their body don't match that makes them transgender. Transitioning is treatment to alleviate the dissonance they experience from living a life where their mind and body doesn't match.

Everyone's entitled to how they choose to act but understanding the situation is key. It's important in this day and age to do that.



It really boils down to how we treat each other really. If more folks were to respect a person like you do, there'd be a lot less friction overall. I think it's because nuance in opinions doesn't really exist anymore Not many folks can or are willing to separate thoughts into different perspectives. Then there are people won't accept that separation either. It's a tough thing.

yes but just cause you want to have a sex change doesn't change the fact you are still not a real female, you still won't have the sex organs, and still can't give birth. Hence you are not a real female, it doesn't matter what you want to be.

 

[Ar¢tos]

yes but just cause you want to have a sex change doesn't change the fact you are still not a real female, you still won't have the sex organs, and still can't give birth. Hence you are not a real female, it doesn't matter what you want to be.

Gender isn't such a static thing as you think. Basically every living creature that doesn't use XY chromosomes for defining gender proves that (fish, insects, birds, reptiles, etc). Assigning labels of "male/female" is a human thing, not a nature's imposition. If a "male" gets pregnant does it become female to you? When a fish becomes female to respond to the lack of females in the environment is she still a dude to you?