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[Steel]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

So burning a muslim immigrant's car(while simultaneously nearly killing him) who did not support Donald Trump's limo is an image people will rally around? Are you joking?

 

[Rentahamster]

It's never going to be 100% persuasive.

As close to it as possible, then.

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government.

How is destroying a Muslim immigrant's livelihood a persuasive blow against Trump? He's not even part of the government.

 

[TatteredHat]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

I guarantee you that the aside from you and your fellow anarchists, nobody sees this as anything but the actions of a bunch of hooligans.

 

[notworksafe]

yeah really sticking it to "the man" by burning the car of a normal citizen who isn't related in any way to "the man". i understand though. i used to be the same way, wearing a mask and breaking shit during protests to prove a point. then i grew up. eventually you will too.

 

[The Kree]

As close to it as possible, then.


How is destroying a Muslim immigrant's livelihood a persuasive blow against Trump? He's not even part of the government.

Wealthy people ride around in limos. There's an ever increasing wealth gap in this country. The symbolism is easy enough to identify.

 

[Trouble]

Wealthy people ride around in limos. There's an ever increasing wealth gap in this country. The symbolism is easy enough to identify.

Way to dodge the question entirely.

 

[Rentahamster]

Wealthy people ride around in limos. There's an ever increasing wealth gap in this country. The symbolism is easy enough to identify.

I get the symbolism. But I'm also pointing out the real life consequences. Are you willing to sacrifice that person's business for this symbol?

 

[The Kree]

I get the symbolism. But I'm also pointing out the real life consequences. Are you willing to sacrifice that person's business for this symbol?

No, but I understand why it happened and what it represents. I can see past the owners personal loss.

 

[ACR0019]

Wealthy people ride around in limos. There's an ever increasing wealth gap in this country. The symbolism is easy enough to identify.

There are poor people in my town who enjoy renting out a limo for special occasions so your point is moot.

 

[More_Badass]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

It doesn't send that message at all. The only message that it sends is these bunch of assholes are burning a car, not "they're fighting back". Only you and those who share your mindset see it as the latter.

 

[The Kree]

There are poor people in my town who enjoy renting out a limo for special occasions so your point is moot.

They rent limos once a decade pretending to be rich for a few hours. My point stands.

 

[Trojita]

Anyone advocating for this stuff is a lame asshole.

 

[Rentahamster]

No, but I understand why it happened and what it represents.

I understand that. Hell, I might agree with over half of their grievances too.

I can see past the owners personal loss.

But this I cannot do. I can't tell that to his face. There seems to be little appreciation for the actual human lives attached to these things.

 

[kame-sennin]

Liberals, 100 years ago:

"The Tsar doesn't care about a burned painting."
"Property damage is never called for."
"You're not gonna persuade the loyalists."

I understand they have grievances too, but certain actions are not persuasive, and in fact, are counter productive.

The goal isn't to persuade, it's to resist.

 

[Valhelm]

It doesn't send that message at all. The only message that it sends is these bunch of assholes are burning a car, not "they're fighting back". Only you and those who share your mindset see it as the latter.

Then why a limousine?

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

It doesn't send that message at all. The only message that it sends is these bunch of assholes are burning a car, not "they're fighting back". Only you and those who share your mindset see it as the latter.

Bingo. Smashing some random store or car doesn't help the cause any, if anything, it hurts it. One smashed car gets more coverage and airtime then 10,000 peaceful protestors.

 

[More_Badass]

Then why a limousine?

The average person isnt going to make a distinction between a limo, a bus, a car, a motorcycle. The actual vehicle doesnt matter. It's a group in the streets burning stuff. That's what people see

 

[ACR0019]

They rent limos once a decade pretending to be rich for a few hours. My point stands.

The implicit snark and pretension contained in your answer towards people you have never met reveals much more than your pitiful answers ever could.

 

[Replicant]

If you don't care about my well-being, safety, and property, I won't care about your cause either. You can rot in jail as far as I see for doing this kind of vile action.

 

[Shaanyboi]

No, but I understand why it happened and what it represents. I can see past the owners personal loss.

And there is the fucking problem...

 

[notworksafe]

Then why a limousine?

because people who can't see more than one step ahead think it's excellent symbolism

 

[The Kree]

I understand that. Hell, I might agree with over half of their grievances too.



But this I cannot do. I can't tell that to his face. There seems to be little appreciation for the actual human lives attached to these things.

You don't have to tell him anything. It's just us here. Yeah, it sucks that he lost his car, but we can have a conversation beyond that.

 

[Trojita]

My other dog shits on the floor to show he resists. He's still an asshole for doing it.

 

[The Illiterati]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1036873

This thread reminded me of this older one.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Its not as though all 1.something million protestors did this at once. Theres always some malcontents in the mix

 

[The Kree]

The implicit snark and pretension contained in your answer towards people you have never met reveals much more than your pitiful answers ever could.

And there is the fucking problem...

Where the fuck else is the conversation supposed to go besides "Aw, that's sad?" I agree, it's fucked up. I also see what it means in the bigger picture too. If you don't feel like talking about it, it's not your place to try to guilt trip me into shutting up about it.

 

[Rentahamster]

The goal isn't to persuade, it's to resist.

I'm not sure if the same rules apply nowadays. Most people are much too comfortable in their lives as it is to spark revolution like in the old days.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Pretty much. Also capitalists don't get a pass for being POC. It's kind of a silly point to even raise.

If you own a limo service you are a capitalist. Being from a marginalized background does not preclude you from that.

Soooooo...

Was he oppressing people with his ownership of capital? Or is just owning any amount of capital a grave offence?

 

[Trouble]

The most these edgelords accomplished is potential facing 10 years in prison on felony rioting charges because they rioted at a Secret Service protected event.

Its not as though all 1.something million protestors did this at once. Theres always some malcontents in the mix

It gives the other side an easy out to dismiss the legitimate grievances of the protests, though. I'm really glad the Women's March was on Saturday and universally peaceful (AFAIK).

 

[More_Badass]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1036873

This thread reminded me of this older one.

Perhaps, but when rioting and peacing protesting happens at the same time, whatever message the rioting hopes to send become moot. The rioting disrupts the peaceful protest and invite the police to act against everyone, and the protesting gets portrayed as senseless rioting

 

[Fugu]

#NotAllAnarchists advocate the wanton destruction of property, whether out of pragmatism or empathy (or both). I wouldn't call myself an anarchist but I'm not too far off and I would never dream of taking to the streets and destroying some random dude's car for the same reason that everyone else here wouldn't: Ruining a random guy's life is too great a cost for any political movement.

The people responsible for this tend to be what I call weekend anarchists, which are those individuals who are anarchists to the extent that they want to fuck shit up and use the word "revolution" a lot. There are also militant anarchists and probably at least some communists who actually believe this kind of behavior is justified, but those people are stupid and not representative as a whole of either movement.

 

[The Illiterati]

Perhaps, but when rioting and peacing protesting at the same time, whatever message the rioting hopes to send become moot. The rioting disrupts the peaceful protest and invite the police to act against everyone, and the protesting gets portrayed as senseless rioting

I honestly was not even making a statement by posting it here. I hadn't reread it so I'm not even sure how it completely fits but thought someone would find it interesting.

 

[Valhelm]

Perhaps, but when rioting and peacing protesting happens at the same time, whatever message the rioting hopes to send become moot. The rioting disrupts the peaceful protest and invite the police to act against everyone, and the protesting gets portrayed as senseless rioting

Whose fault is that? Activists who express their anger through force or conservatives hoping to defame what the activists stand for?

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Where the fuck else is the conversation supposed to go besides "Aw, that's sad?" I agree, it's fucked up. I also see what it means in the bigger picture too. If you don't feel like talking about it, it's not your place to try to guilt trip me into shutting up about it.

It doesn't mean anything in the bigger picture though. It's just some random guy's fancy taxi. It's destruction doesn't send any sort of message to the top, it just paints the protest as a bunch of violent thugs.

It's not like you stormed trump tower and sacked his penthouse or something.

 

[Trojita]

Whose fault is that? Activists who express their anger through force or conservatives hoping to defame what the activists stand for?

I think the fault lies on the guy that decided to set fire to a random guy's vehicle.

 

[Chittagong]

What's the problem with that link?

This is a flat out lie.

"These people" are the ones putting in the organizing work 365 days a year. They march when there are 15 people in the streets, not just when there are 1500. You are actually the one co-oping our movement with reformist, incrementalist bullshit that only legitimizes the state.

Correct.

What am I even reading? As an entrepreneur stuff like this really pisses me off.

Burning shit achieves nothing, it doesn't persuade anyone to change anything, on the contrary. If those 365 days were actually used to try get a job, start something, pay some taxes, vote in elections, write investigative journalism, do something intelligent, that could achieve something. I struggle to come up with one instance where thugging 'activitsts' contributed to any meaningful societal change. And that includes taking down DDR and USSR.

No, I believe these clowns never voted, never really tried to get a job, and express their frustration to a world they feel somehow should cater to them without them even trying.

 

[More_Badass]

Whose fault is that? Activists who express their anger through force or conservatives hoping to defame what the activists stand for?

The activists who decide to do it when there's a peaceful protet happening at the same time. If your message is so strong, why wait for the peaceful protest to act?

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

go fuck yourself

 

[Zomba13]

GAF has told me this is fine and the only way things will happen is with people getting hurt and things getting broken.

 

[DigtialT]

Whose fault is that? Activists who express their anger through force or conservatives hoping to defame what the activists stand for?

The activists because it doesn't take a conservative for the public perception against an action like this to turn negative.

 

[activatethesmile]

Pretty much. Also capitalists don't get a pass for being POC. It's kind of a silly point to even raise.

If you own a limo service you are a capitalist. Being from a marginalized background does not preclude you from that.

This sort of thing always make my eyes roll. The two of you are in a goddamn video game forum, don't tell me you two are some saint that does not benefit from the gears of capitalism.

It's even sillier when you cite that as a reason that it's ok to burn things owned by individual people that are just trying to run a business. That is just stupid, get out of here.

 

[The Kree]

It doesn't mean anything in the bigger picture though. It's just some random guy's fancy taxi. It's destruction doesn't send any sort of message to the top, it just paints the protest as a bunch of violent thugs.

It's not like you stormed trump tower and sacked his penthouse or something.

I see meaning in it and you don't. Cool. Symbols impact everyone differently.

If a wave of people stormed Trump Tower you'd still have simpletons going "Aw guys come on, violence is bad," thinking they're saying something profound.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, before people start defending the protestors who did this and saying "it's for the cause" they should actually look at who's protesting and why first. Fuck anarchists.

Yup. Same thing happened in Ferguson- bunch of outsiders came in to start shit.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Where the fuck else is the conversation supposed to go besides "Aw, that's sad?" I agree, it's fucked up. I also see what it means in the bigger picture too. If you don't feel like talking about it, it's not your place to try to guilt trip me into shutting up about it.

How about not shrugging off the damage done to some random dude's life as if his burning car is some meaningful art piece? It's not. Nobody fucking cares about the bigger picture when the person you're supposedly fighting for gets trampled underneath.

 

[blankempathy]

Where the fuck else is the conversation supposed to go besides "Aw, that's sad?" I agree, it's fucked up. I also see what it means in the bigger picture too. If you don't feel like talking about it, it's not your place to try to guilt trip me into shutting up about it.

As long as its for the good fight sacrifices are acceptable huh? As if burning this guys property actually accomplished anything.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I see meaning in it and you don't. Cool. Symbols impact everyone differently.

If a wave of people stormed Trump Tower you'd still have simpletons going "Aw guys come on, violence is bad," thinking they're saying something profound.

Then what meaning is there, in the grand scheme? It's a fancy taxi, nothing more.

Trying to compare it to actual action against the state is stupid, as it's clearly not. It's not state owned, operated, or funded. It's just a fancy taxi.

It's burned because they don't have the guts to go actual targets of the state. So you burn something random and claim it's a blow against them.

It's pointless to anyone who thinks bigger picture, and it hurts the folks trying to go for actual change.

But hey, it's easy, and safe.

 

[kame-sennin]

Perhaps, but when rioting and peacing protesting happens at the same time, whatever message the rioting hopes to send become moot. The rioting disrupts the peaceful protest and invite the police to act against everyone, and the protesting gets portrayed as senseless rioting

The purpose of the J20 protests was to shut down as much of D.C. as possible during the inauguration. The strategy - whether you agree with it or not - is to start a cascade of continuing disruptions that begin to paralyze civil society. This is a strategy that has been used successfully in Russia, Palestine, Ukraine, and elsewhere from 1917 to the present day. It is has little to nothing to do with 'sending a message'. This isn't the Civil Rights movement - which was a failure. The purpose is resistance. I totally get why people who want to reform, rather than abolish, the state would be against that. But you should know what it is you're criticizing.

 

[DOWN]

No, but I understand why it happened and what it represents. I can see past the owners personal loss.

You are not seeing the owner's personal loss. You are looking past the owner's personal loss entirely.

 

[The Kree]

How about not shrugging off the damage done to some random dude's life as if his burning car is some meaningful art piece? It's not. Nobody fucking cares about the bigger picture when the person you're supposedly fighting for gets trampled underneath.

As long as its for the good fight sacrifices are acceptable huh? As if burning this guys property actually accomplished anything.

I can't do anything about it. I don't have the money and I don't know the guy. I already acknowledged it's fucked up. Again, I'm not going to shut up because you think I should just sit and cry about it and wag my finger at rioters and that that should be the whole thread.

 

[Trouble]

Yup. Same thing happened in Ferguson- bunch of outsiders came in to start shit.

This is in the "Anarchist" play book. They infiltrate a peaceful protest and start breaking shit and throwing shit at the cops from behind groups of peaceful protesters. They hope they can turn the crowd into a full blown riot, but it rarely works. What it does do is put innocent people out to make a statement in danger and give an easy out to dismiss the entire cause of the protest. Same shit happens every year at the Mayday protest in Seattle.