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[Zophar]

Phil on stage announcing game after game exclusive to W10 for 90 minutes and then at the close he walks off stage only to turn around and say "And one last thing . . . we are stopping production of Xbox consoles and discontinuing the brand. Welcome to the W10 future."

Is that how you see it playing out, aye?

More like Phil talks about how excited he is for the next year of the Xbox service platform, and to prove his dedication to PC users as well announces a bunch of things that will be on both platforms, treating the two as synchronized, interchangeable platforms.

The kicker at the end will be a couple things that sweeten the pot for PC buyer, and next year everything will be on either both or exclusive to the Windows 10 Store, for the definitive, 4k hololens experience.

 

[Stone Ocean]

It's amazing how people still have utterly no clue of what a MOBA is yet keep calling games MOBAs

 

[Always-honest]

Wow, what the hell are they doing there?
They are going full throttle in the new direction now?

 

[Caipirinha]

I think they'd opt for a slow bleed rather than a 'kill'. Still enough money coming out to be worth floating it till sales taper off.

Exactly, it seems like the big guys at the top have decided this needs to happen sooner rather than later and we're already into the "salvage" phase where they will try to squeeze out any residual value in the Xbox division before merging it into whatever their big PC push will be.

 

[Krisprolls]

Totally. That's why they are going to make MORE consoles per generation now. Cause... That's what you totally do. I heard Mc Donald's added two new hamburgers to their menu. They are obviously getting out of the business of making hamburgers.

Yes, your arguments sound that stupid.

He was talking about going PC, not iterating consoles. They're closing their studios and they're beaten in console market, releasing more console iterations wouldn't make sense, it would flop.

 

[cilonen]

MS is gonna kill Xbox, is pretty damn obvious at this point.

Rather than outright kill I just think the next XBox will be a digital only machine playing the same UWP games that you can play on a Windows 10 PC with all of the online only and rights management features that they tried to launch the Xbone with.

By the time they announce it they'll have repurposed what "Xbox" is into a content delivery service and hope the majority of people won't notice what's happened.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Exactly, it seems like the big guys at the top have decided this needs to happen sooner rather than later and we're already into the "salvage" phase where they will try to squeeze out any residual value in the Xbox division before merging it into whatever their big PC push will be.

That is what it appears is happening. The game was literally a couple months out. And they are STILL running the beta until next month to add insult to injury (but that could be to keep them employed through UK work laws of negotiation, etc.)

Rather than outright kill I just think the next XBox will be a digital only machine playing the same UWP games that you can play on a Windows 10 PC with all of the online only and rights management features that they tried to launch the Xbone with.

By the time they announce it they'll have repurposed what "Xbox" is into a content delivery service and hope the majority of people won't notice what's happened.

I see this scenario happening as well.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Exactly, it seems like the big guys at the top have decided this needs to happen sooner rather than later and we're already into the "salvage" phase where they will try to squeeze out any residual value in the Xbox division before merging it into whatever their big PC push will be.

And how exactly does killing off a studio that was working on a PC game support that theory?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

After this I have little faith Rare's pirate game is going to get released. It's infinitely more ambitious a project and no doubt quite a bit more expensive to create also.

 

[Sarobi]

MS is gonna kill Xbox, is pretty damn obvious at this point.

They're not going to kill Xbox... they're just going to change it from being a console product, to a service on PC!

 

[SneakersSO]

I'd ask if you played the beta, but it's obvious that you haven't.

They could easily be talking be talking about Gigantic.

 

[Ghazgulsmash]

what are MS 2016 First party(in house) developed games? Gears4, Forza7(Horizons not in house)?

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Take anything Kevin Dent says with a pinch of salt. He is like TimDog with a press badge.

7 million copies? Really? Did any Halo bar 3 sell that much?

Yeah. They basically all did up until 4.

I know CE did at least 8. 2 did more and 3 I think a touch less than 2 if memory serves.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Not when they are about to make a big push to monetise PC gaming.

They won't kill the console. They'll still have a box to ship to plug at home. I see a rebranding of the Xbox brand.

Most Platinum games, outside of the licensed games(this includes MGRising), have not been 'big' sellers by any stretch of the word. Sure, Platinum games can be good/great, but quality is not the reason both Lionhead & Press Play got shuddered. Bad quality games get canned, you don't close their studios down unless you just aren't interested in pursuing those paths anymore.

And why would Inafune be the one to blame if ReCore gets cut? Sure, Mighty No.9 has had its share of issues, but Armature is developing & heading the game up - Inafune seems like he is just a consultant on the project.

Mind you - if MS is only interested in pursuing guaranteed return, big budget titles, than both Scalebound & ReCore have to be projects that give them pause to some extent. Its not like their reception has set the world on fire, particularly Scalebound.

You bring up good points but I gaurentee you, Scalebound will be fine.

Spoiler

*knocks on wood*

 

[Raylan]

Rather than outright kill I just think the next XBox will be a digital only machine playing the same UWP games that you can play on a Windows 10 PC with all of the online only and rights management features that they tried to launch the Xbone with.

By the time they announce it they'll have repurposed what "Xbox" is into a content delivery service and hope the majority of people won't notice what's happened.

Why not simply be a software company and make games for all consoles and PC? They're already doing this with Minecraft. If it's all about software, go all out = Everybody is happy.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

Whether or not they put the marketing emphasis on the Xbox or on PC, their development will clearly switch to PC gaming and the Xbox will become a Windows box and by virtue of being a Windows box will have "access to all these great games!" etc.

You've still got Gears and probably Sea of Thieves etc. to come so it's not like there will be nothing, but future investment in exclusive Xbox titles, particularly AAA, has probably already stopped.

The corporate management have obviously decided to go a different direction to console gaming and to reclaim PC gaming, every single piece of news out of the Xbox division lately has pointed to this.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I am a pc gamer primarily and your entire post is head to toe off the wall. You think ms would drop a 20 million sales opertunity. This is business. It's all that it is. The xbox brand is not sustainable to have studios apart from a few key pillars. Gaming is not shifting units this gen to what it was last gen. It was common to hear 6 million units for halo in a couple of months. MS wants both xbox and potential pc sales. You can't make a console gamer buy a pc and ms knows this. No one's going to just let Sony be the only console maker. It's bad for business and the consumer.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Why not simply be a software company and make games for all consoles and PC? They're already doing this with Minecraft. If it's all about software, go all out = Everybody is happy.

Good lord... this is turning into a Nintendo thread.

 

[Caipirinha]

Agreed. Like a Steam Machine... or this developer posted in the 'incremental upgrade' post...

I would imagine that guy is bang on, but I'd add that I don't think Microsoft really expect those "Windows boxes with an Xbox logo" to really sell particularly well, they might be marketed as the high end version of a Windows 10 streaming TV box they have been working on for some time, one that can run high end apps ie. games - but they know as well as anyone else that the money is in the cheaper consumer versions and their main competition is Apple, Google and Amazon.

The Xbox will live on as low end gaming PC with a controller that you have in your living room, primarily popular with enthusiasts and allowing MS to shift remaining hardware and avoid the shareholder confidence knock that announcing an outright closure of the Xbox division would bring.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I am a pc gamer primarily and your entire post is head to toe off the wall. You think ms would drop a 20 million sales opertunity. This is business. It's all that it is. The xbox brand is not sustainable to have studios apart from a few key pillars. Gaming is not shifting units this fen to what it was last gen. It was common to hear 6 million units for halo in a couple of months. MS wants both xbox and potential pc sales. You can't make a console gamer buy a pc and ms knows this. No one's going yo just let Sony be the only console maker. It's bad for business and the consumer.

A mostly incoherent post but amongst it I noticed a few phrases that on their own actually make sense.

lol at MS competing with Sony because it's "good for the consumer".

 

[Lingitiz]

Whether or not they put the marketing emphasis on the Xbox or on PC, their development will clearly switch to PC gaming and the Xbox will become a Windows box and by virtue of being a Windows box will have "access to all these great games!" etc.

You've still got Gears and probably Sea of Thieves etc. to come so it's not like there will be nothing, but future investment in exclusive Xbox titles, particularly AAA, has probably already stopped.

The corporate management have obviously decided to go a different direction to console gaming and to reclaim PC gaming, every single piece of news out of the Xbox division lately has pointed to this.

I don't think pursuing Windows 10 means less investment in the AAA games space from them. First party development for the most part is pretty difficult these days on all fronts. You've seen this with both Sony and MS struggling out of the gate with first party efforts in the early goings of their systems. Drawing on the PC userbase should theoretically make the big AAA games they traditionally publish more viable because the risk becomes a lot smaller.

 

[Raist]

Backwards compatibility, new XB1 dashboard, a slew of interesting exclusives, the ability to stream XB1 games to my PC... it all sounds great to me.

And all of that failed.

Totally. That's why they are going to make MORE consoles per generation now. Cause... That's what you totally do. I heard Mc Donald's added two new hamburgers to their menu. They are obviously getting out of the business of making hamburgers.

Yes, your arguments sound that stupid.

I haven't made an argument, I've made a statement.

If you want an argument:

- Bundling XB1&360 sales together, 2 quarters after the launch.
Then, merging with Surface division (which despite growing, still lost money most of the time because of Xbox).
Then, not even bothering with units, just revenues.
Finally, not even revenues but MAU "because that's their important metric"

- Not bothering to release the XB1 in additional markets since the end of 2014.

- After over a decade of not giving a shit, they suddenly go on a PC port frenzy of what is left of their most popular IPs.

- Slowly shutting down parts of Microsoft Studios.

- Acquiring Mojang, which unless they're truly batshit insane, will release games for any platform out there.

- The whole W10/DX12 harmonization.

Xbox has never made them any money, they're pretty much back to square one as the XB1 is just tanking, and contrary to popular belief, having a big treasure chest doesn't mean you can keep bleeding money on a division which in its current state has no future whatsoever.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They're not going to kill Xbox... they're just going to change it from being a console product, to a service on PC!

Semantics.

I think we can all agree when people say, 'kill Xbox', they are referring to the standard console market as it stands with the little black box.

We have been saying all of them want games as a service for years now, it is just MSFT is in a bad position globally with marketshare, they see Nintendo and Sony both want to focus on this, so they are going to try and push there first not unlike the 360 'head start'.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Woah, some of you are already completely writing Microsoft off with this news? A tad premature, perhaps?

This is your chance to shine, Nintendo.
I could live with a Sony/Nintendo console market, maybe there's space for a new competitor, even!

Interesting times ahead.

 

[Montresor]

God this thread is fucking depressing. I've invested too much time into my gamertag for me to not be hugely upset at the thought of MS leaving consoles.

 

[SneakersSO]

They won't kill the console. They'll still have a box to ship to plug at home. I see a rebranding of the Xbox brand.

You bring up good points but I gaurentee you, Scalebound will be fine.

Spoiler

*knocks on wood*

Spoiler

*knocks on wood as well.*

I want to play both SB & ReCore, so i'm hoping i'm wrong.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

And all of that failed.

Source?

 

[Timu]

Sad news.

Well I did play the Fable Legends beta at least.

But not like this.

 

[Caipirinha]

And how exactly does killing off a studio that was working on a PC game support that theory?

Perhaps market research suggested the PC version wouldn't compete on the market? Not an unreasonable prediction.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Source?

Well, ..sales?

 

[AncientDiety]

God this thread is fucking depressing. I've invested too much time into my gamertag for me to not be hugely upset at the thought of MS leaving consoles.

Do people really care this much about gamerscore?

 

[StealthPandemic]

Sad news.

Well I did play the Fable Legends beta at least.

But not like this.

YOU DID THIS???????

 

[cilonen]

Why not simply be a software company and make games for all consoles and PC? They're already doing this with Minecraft. If it's all about software, go all out = Everybody is happy.

That doesn't necessarily push the universal Windows 10 future they're aiming for though.

 

[element]

Games from internal first party publishers can be sustainable at quite a bit lower sales numbers than games from internal third party studios for the following reasons

1. A first party publisher doesn't lose a large part of revenue in platform royalties.

2. There will be a lot more familiarity with the hardware in a first party publisher than in a third party publisher. This makes games cheaper to make for internal studios at a first party publisher, than it is for internal studios at a third party studio.

3. Assuming that the platform holder in question sees any future at all in their platform, having a diverse line-up of games and IP, and studios to make them, becomes a goal in itself, because it makes your platform more attractive to consumers. Not all of your games need to be a smashing commercial success to provide value to your platform.

Why do you think Sony can afford to keep so many studios, even though a lot of their games are not huge moneymakers?

1. We aren't comparing Activision, we are comparing internal first party dev/published vs external independent first party published. So throw this out.

2. Hardware familiarity at this point really isn't a huge deal, especially that most studios are using Unity or Unreal. Also Microsoft has teams (ATG being one of them) who specialize in helping developer get the most out of the platform. Even so, you really aren't going to save a large amount of money on this since this area really isn't even a costly aspect of development, creating content is.

3. Wrote about this before, it is clear that MS wants smashing commercial success on everything they release. A company the size of Microsoft, it can be easier to make a $100m investment and hit $1b versus invest $5m to make $50m. The cost of making games is so much, that it is almost to the point that you have to only release hits.

Sony appears to have a different view on investing in development similar to the movie industry in a way. In one successful product covers the losses on projects that lose money. If you business model is to be a neutral profit division, then that model can work very well. But if your business model is to be profit positive, then you have to invest in what will make money.

Acquiring Mojang, which unless they're truly batshit insane, will release games for any platform out there.

I can't see MS making Minecraft exclusive to a single platform. With 100m users and probably 60% being on mobile, it would be a disaster. Best thing they can do, is release on all platforms and continue to count the money.

 

[Montresor]

Do people really care this much about gamerscore?

I said gamertag, not gamerscore. A history of all the games I've played. That matters to me way more than gamerscore.

 

[Persona7]

damn I actually liked fable a lot.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

they're pretty much back to square one as the XB1 is just tanking

Is it? I mean, to this day, it's still tracking ahead of the 360. Yeah, it MAY not last, but as of this moment it's doing quite well. Just not as well as the market leader.

Not the same as tanking.

 

[Timu]

YOU DID THIS???????

No, I'm not a monster or anything like that.

 

[ape2man]

The closing of Lionhead is a typical case of MS mismanagement. First force a studio to produce nothing else but Fable games, then force them to make a Kinect game (failure), then force them to make a F2P (neverending beta) and then close the studio.

If MS was willing to kill Lionhead, a studio that produced two bonafide hits before being forced to create Kinect/F2P games, the writing is on the wall for Rare to be honest. That studio produces a string of commercial and critical failures after which they were forced to create games they didn't want to make: three Kinect games, avatars and now a F2P game that's MIA since the E3 reveal. I bet the Rare devs won't sleep very soundly tonight after hearing today's news about Lionhead and Press Play.

Except the kinect games where a bonafide success

 

[Caipirinha]

I don't think pursuing Windows 10 means less investment in the AAA games space from them. First party development for the most part is pretty difficult these days on all fronts. You've seen this with both Sony and MS struggling out of the gate with first party efforts in the early goings of their systems. Drawing on the PC userbase should theoretically make the big AAA games they traditionally publish more viable because the risk becomes a lot smaller.

Oh yeah for sure, I just mean I don't think MS will be investing in these titles for the Xbox One as a closed console, more that it will have a large Windows 10 software update and will be marketed as being able to run some big PC titles (on medium settings etc.).

I don't think MS really expect the Xbox as a Windows 10 box for your living room with periodically upgraded SKUs to sell particularly well, not to the extent that it's seen as a competitor to Sony and Nintendo in the console market, I just think they've decided that the numbers show it's cost effective enough to give it a go. Might as well.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is it? I mean, to this day, it's still tracking ahead of the 360. Yeah, it MAY not last, but as of this moment it's doing quite well. Just not as well as the market leader.

Not the same as tanking.

And MSFT knows their own 360 was heavily supply constrained for a long while, so they of course know that is not too impressive in comparison. They cannot even gain on their home turf anymore. Every month it grows larger and larger.

That's what the Xbox fans are not getting. They are seriously believing that Phil the passionate gamer does all of this for gamers. He's a business person, period. Maybe after 15 years of console business they were doing the maths, coming to the conclusion that building a dedicated machine for gaming is not the way to go to get most profits. They've sunk so much money into this bottomless hole that may have been spent way better on the service front. MS in the last 15 years was divided and conquered.

Good points.

 

[Markoman]

Why not simply be a software company and make games for all consoles and PC? They're already doing this with Minecraft. If it's all about software, go all out = Everybody is happy.

That's what the Xbox fans are not getting. They are seriously believing that Phil the passionate gamer does all of this for gamers. He's a business person, period. Maybe after 15 years of console business they were doing the maths, coming to the conclusion that building a dedicated machine for gaming is not the way to go to get most profits. They've sunk so much money into this bottomless hole that may have been spent way better on the service front. MS in the last 15 years was divided and conquered.

 

[Raist]

Is it? I mean, to this day, it's still tracking ahead of the 360. Yeah, it MAY not last, but as of this moment it's doing quite well. Just not as well as the market leader.

Not the same as tanking.

Yeah I mean it's doing great. Hence all the things I've listed. I'll all good, XB1 is alive and well.

Source?

XB1 sales?

 

[StealthPandemic]

No, I'm not a monster or anything like that.

Are you sure? Monsters always deny that they're monsters.

 

[AncientDiety]

I said gamertag, not gamerscore. A history of all the games I've played. That matters to me way more than gamerscore.

Still don't see the relevance but to each their own. I'd be more concerned what it meant for the industry.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Whether or not they put the marketing emphasis on the Xbox or on PC, their development will clearly switch to PC gaming and the Xbox will become a Windows box and by virtue of being a Windows box will have "access to all these great games!" etc.

You've still got Gears and probably Sea of Thieves etc. to come so it's not like there will be nothing, but future investment in exclusive Xbox titles, particularly AAA, has probably already stopped.

The corporate management have obviously decided to go a different direction to console gaming and to reclaim PC gaming, every single piece of news out of the Xbox division lately has pointed to this.

I've been on the wrong Internet for the last 12 months then because I certainly don't see what you do.

 

[CrispyBoar]

And those games will continue to sell terribly. For Sony fostering these studios and their poor selling games makes some sense. For Microsoft it does not...they make real money from other pursuits and they fund games internally to further their platform play.

That platform use to be xbox only. Now it is xbox plus pc.

I have to agree with GHG. While not all of Sony's 1st party titles sell like gangbusters, at least they've always been trying with new IP's each & every generation since the PS1 & never gave up (nor did they give up on certain IP's until about 2 more tries in). That shows how committed that they are towards exclusives & gaming in general.

When has Microsoft ever done anything of the sort besides Halo, Gears & Forza? I can't name one. They never seem to give any more of their IP's more than one shot before throwing it into the trash can.

 

[vcc]

1. We aren't comparing Activision, we are comparing internal first party dev/published vs external independent first party published. So throw this out.

2. Hardware familiarity at this point really isn't a huge deal, especially that most studios are using Unity or Unreal. Also Microsoft has teams (ATG being one of them) who specialize in helping developer get the most out of the platform. Even so, you really aren't going to save a large amount of money on this since this area really isn't even a costly aspect of development, creating content is.

3. Wrote about this before, it is clear that MS wants smashing commercial success on everything they release. A company the size of Microsoft, it can be easier to make a $100m investment and hit $1b versus invest $5m to make $50m. The cost of making games is so much, that it is almost to the point that you have to only release hits.

Sony appears to have a different view on investing in development similar to the movie industry in a way. In one successful product covers the losses on projects that lose money. If you business model is to be a neutral profit division, then that model can work very well. But if your business model is to be profit positive, then you have to invest in what will make money.

I think the relative positions of the corporations play into it.

Sony gets 4% ROI. Happy as punch at being solvent. MS gets 4% ROI, investor outrage, heads roll, and long meetings where they swear at you and tell you to shape up or fuck off. Nintendo make -4% ROI. Things are okay, 10 more years of this and they might need to shift business models.

 

[Caipirinha]

Is it? I mean, to this day, it's still tracking ahead of the 360. Yeah, it MAY not last, but as of this moment it's doing quite well. Just not as well as the market leader.

Not the same as tanking.

Tanking is whatever the corporate management and major shareholders decide is tanking tbf. It might not seem "fair" to us as console gamers but from a business perspective it's been on the cards for a long time, we all know that, and after the management changes it was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

 

[NullPointer]

Considering how Fable III did over 1 million units during its first two months in US I never really understood why MS went to the direction they went with the series. Traditional single player Fable could have still sold really well.

This gen's focus on (mostly competitive) multiplayer and microtransaction schemes has led to a lot of disappointments.

Thanks for the memories Lionhead. You'll be missed.

 

[AncientDiety]

Is it? I mean, to this day, it's still tracking ahead of the 360. Yeah, it MAY not last, but as of this moment it's doing quite well. Just not as well as the market leader.

Not the same as tanking.

People still say this? Last gen started slow for several reasons:

1: HDTV adoption

2: Supply


X1 will have lost a lot of market share this gen, it will fall far behind 360.

 

[Caipirinha]

I think the relative positions of the corporations play into it.

Sony gets 4% ROI. Happy as punch at being solvent. MS gets 4% ROI, investor outrage, heads roll, and long meetings where they swear at you and tell you to shape up or fuck off. Nintendo make -4% ROI. Things are okay, 10 more years of this and they might need to shift business models.

This guy gets it ^^^