-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Lionhead Studios and Press Play closed. Fable legends cancelled.
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
They do the exact same with all of their first-party studios.
You think 343i is ever not going to create a Halo game? Or turn10 not working on Forza?
The Coalition? It's a studio that's been assembled to be a game-pumping Gears factory, even canceling other projects to ram Gears 4 down everyone's throat because Microsoft has a holiday season coming up.
It leads to franchise fatigue (as seen in Fable, Gears, Forza and Halo to a lesser extent) and is possibly what drives them to do something radically different, like an F2P game. Except this time, if it bombs, the studio is toast.
It's been their MO for a while now.
I don't really agree with the stance that it'll be a steambox type thing in terms of sales. I think for the most part MS will continue to market their consoles as just that, consoles. The casual market doesn't really see PC gaming as an option, hell it's not even on the radar. I look at this as a primarily PC gamer who has a lot of friends that mostly game on consoles. I don't even recommend PC gaming to them. It is simply an investment too large for someone that plays maybe 2 or 3 games a year at most.
That's why the Xbox brand as a console box is still important. The kind of gamer that buys Madden, COD, maybe Halo and NBA 2K each year is still an important market that they will not just give up. The Xbox will continue to be targeted at those people from a marketing standpoint.
If you watched Phil Spencer's talk at the recent press event, it seems like at the top they do see the PC and Xbox as very different things, despite wanting to unite the infrastructure on both platforms. This is why ultimately, the games being on both platforms kind of doesn't matter. The weight of exclusives has become very low on the console side. What drives people to buy consoles is the third party support, marketing, approachability, ease of use, etc. PS4 is not winning because of Infamous Second Son and Bloodborne, but because of key marketing deals with third parties, and perception that was made them the approachable and most user friendly console.
Fable III needed to sell more than 5 million (according to their GDC talk back in 2010), which it never did.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-targets-5m-fable-iii-sales-profits-of-150m said:
Business-wise it was most likely considered a failure, and given the much risen production costs it really shouldn't come as a surprise that a sequel was never greenlit.
Fable 3 didn't meet it's internal business targets and it didn't look like MS was confident in Legends being great business either. It's also probably worth mentioning that Sony hasn't exactly been shy about axing studios and projects, nor have all their projects met targets either. EDIT: That was meant to quote your earlier post, I definitely agree that the positions of corporations does matter though, but in this case it probably isn't the major factor.
Rip LionheadWhat I wouldnt give for Fable 4.
Fable 3 sucked
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Fable 3 was fine. It arguably had a more compelling story than 2. Everything after you became king/queen was what sucked.
Exactly, first half was good, play half killed it
Caipirinha
Member
Currently that kind of consumer is probably going to be the most hostile to this kind of business plan though, don't you think?
I mean I'm sure they can tempt a few over but not console gamer numbers.
Fable 3 sucked lol it got so far away from its RPG roots.
semiconscious
Member
protomouse
Member
I mean, in a way I appreciate a break from the usual Nintendoomed talk, but you guys are laying it on a bit thick methinks.
Xbox being "killed" is not a logical conclusion to be drawn from Microsoft closing down a few studios, or adopting a different hardware business model, or whatever. The Xbox brand is huge, and an especially important asset to Windows.
Lionhead may have held prestige, but for all we know the studio could have suffered from problems that weren't worth trying to "fix". Microsoft presumably still owns the Lionhead IP, and those are certainly more valuable to them than the studio itself.
And, quite frankly, delusional.
Yup. When the third party begging starts, that's my cue to leave haha.
Xbox being "killed" is not a logical conclusion to be drawn from Microsoft closing down a few studios, or adopting a different hardware business model, or whatever. The Xbox brand is huge, and an especially important asset to Windows.
Lionhead may have held prestige, but for all we know the studio could have suffered from problems that weren't worth trying to "fix". Microsoft presumably still owns the Lionhead IP, and those are certainly more valuable to them than the studio itself.
And, quite frankly, delusional.
Yup. When the third party begging starts, that's my cue to leave haha.
daTRUballin
Member
Wow. This was definitely unexpected.
Microsoft seems like a scary company to work for. They seem to have a habit of closing studios left and right. I'm kind of worried about their other studios right now. :/
Microsoft seems like a scary company to work for. They seem to have a habit of closing studios left and right. I'm kind of worried about their other studios right now. :/
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Fable never had deep RPG roots to begin with.
Oh, I love it when this argument is brought up...10234 times and counting.
What does 'XboxOne sales are ahead of 360 sales in the same timeframe' say about the profit they are making with XboxOne?
We don't know how much they have lost/spent on
- reversing their initial strategy
- overstocking EU
- unbundling Kinect
- doing crazy (desperation) deals like in holiday 2014
- investments like NFL deal and stuff like that
Guess what, a company which doesn't even share sales numbers with the general public, is never going to tell you. So, please stop trying to figure out XboxOne's success just by using one piece of evidence. The important question for MS stil is "is all of this worth it" and when trying to answer this question they will give a rat's ass for your passion for MS games - numbers is all that matters to them in the end and it's absolutely legit for a company to think this way.
potatohead
Member
Actually kind of hoped they could make some good on the MOBA with Fable Legends.
Didn't want to see them die off.
That said didn't particularly like the games.
Didn't want to see them die off.
That said didn't particularly like the games.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
I think halo sales, world wide sales and the idea that consoles weren't the big go-to future they once though. Streaming, pcs and mobile is the norm now and they really could be ready to dump or change up the Xbox brand.
You have to see it from thier position and how well steam does as a service for games. Microsoft wants that just like when they saw playstation
Microsoft does seem a bit unentergetic about it recently.
I think they are going to push toward pc the best they can. And maybe push minecraft.
Something doesn't feel right, things seem really quite on x1 imo
You have to see it from thier position and how well steam does as a service for games. Microsoft wants that just like when they saw playstation
Microsoft does seem a bit unentergetic about it recently.
I think they are going to push toward pc the best they can. And maybe push minecraft.
Something doesn't feel right, things seem really quite on x1 imo
To buying an upgraded box? I think it's more likely they treat the revisions in the same way they've treated stuff like the Xbox 360 Slim. Introduce the new system and then gradually phase out the old. I don't think you'll see them touting the Windows integration that much and marketing all these reasons why the new box is like a PC. It'll continue to be an Xbox system and use the same marketing tactics that they've used before.
Until recently it made sense for Nintendo to go the low-power, secondary console route again.But if a hole in the market opens up this year due to Microsoft shifting focus Nintendo won't have enough time to change course and capitalise on it. It would be the first time they've had an opportunity to compete in over a decade and they'd only be able to do it if they'd fucked up a year or more ago when deciding on specs.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
Man people are way too hyped by this news. I am just excited to see it all play out.
The Xbox brand was potentially huge. And then XB1 happened.
Can't find specific sales numbers for Fable 3 but it would appear it sold significantly less than 2, which I see at 3.5 million. That means the studio hasn't really released a successful title since 2008. Fable Legends was gonna bomb and they knew it. MS had probably already invested tons of money into FL and decided enough was enough with this project that obviously doesn't have a chance in hell of making back the investment, and also realized Lionhead hasn't released a hit title in 8 years so can them. Yes obviously MS didn't help with Kinect stuff and Legends (which was probably born from the always online Xbone debacle - if its always online, Fable should be multiplayer!).
Head of Vengarl
Banned
Sad. I hope all those employees get new jobs quickly.
I absolutely loved Fable 1. I hear it was hyped to the extreme; fortunately for me I went in totally blind. Man it was so good. I think it was actually the first WRPG I ever played.
I absolutely loved Fable 1. I hear it was hyped to the extreme; fortunately for me I went in totally blind. Man it was so good. I think it was actually the first WRPG I ever played.
much more likely to happen than them killing it completely.
I suspect what they mean by 'hardware innovation' is it's going from XB1 Console to XB1.5 Set top box. Giving up on being a under powered game machine to being a over powered set top box with an actual library of non phone games.
My own take on exclusives is that the #1 console essential gets the same benefit from exclusives as they get from major 3rd party titles. If a person who does not own one wants to play a AAA game, they will opt for the 'winner' or where their friends are which is statistically more often the 'winner'. In the last gen effectively every big game gave a bump to the 360 more than the PS3.
For number 2 and down they need something to grab peoples and get them to buy. For the PS3, they were the winner in other territories in NA but they also had a good stable of game which attracted buyers. Uncharted, Gods of War, Last of Us, Ratchet and Clank, Infamous etc.. They did okay. I'd say half of these were expected and were a big part of the PS3 opening to some sales as opposed to tanking immediately.
XB1 did okay because it's base expect Halo, Gears, Forza. The early adopters were already swayed. Shifting all of the near future exclusives to the w10 store really neuters the value. So someone considering buying has many less reasons and someone who owns one may be upset that they had other options.
Hardware is not a end. Hardware is a means to an end. It's what the consumer has to buy to enable games. If there are not enough 'ends': games or if there is few unique 'ends': exclusives it may mean lower sales.
I feel it would insane if MS hadn't considered this and the fact they are putting out so many mixed messages implies they did and thought confusion is better than open hate. So all the actions they are under taking seem to be a major diminished of their involvement in console games while their rhetoric is confusing messaging'.
Green Yoshi
Member
Perhaps Microsoft skips it. They would not be the only ones.
hydrophilic attack
Member
This is an interesting perspective.
Sony has been killing some studios and projects. But that's after having given them second and third chances after they have been underperforming for years. I mean, how many years had it been since a successful game by Zipper when they were closed in 2012 (Well, to be fair, the same could be said for Lionhead though.)
GusBricker
Member
MS screwed up with Fable Legends when they thought the consoles was gonna be always online and thus, it was developed the way it was. I bet if they could do it all over again, they'd make a single player Fable game instead.
I could see that, current Rare would be better suited for that than Conker or Banjo
bigboss370
Member
maybe get the employees to work on the "indefinitely on hold" Phantom Dust? >_>
Primethius
Banned
Don't expect such things.
Be pleasantly surprised if they happen, but it's best to bury those hopes deep inside. PD's gone. T_T
PetulantChild
Banned
What the hell are they doing? It's like they want to be known for nothing but Halo, which is a franchise already dying at the hands of an incompetent dev (seriously MS, if you're going to shutter a studio shutter the one that has tarnished your flagship franchise). Legends looked mediocre as hell but why bother with all the betas and crap if you're just going to fire everyone and cancel it?
Again I think for a lot of people making these decisions, PC gaming doesn't even enter the equation for them. If they want to play Gears, Halo, etc. they're not going to be doing that on a competing console. So for that consumer the value is still there. For people like myself with a good PC, the value is diminished forsure. But then I'm not invested in the XB1 ecosystem to begin with, the system is merely a means to an end to play the one or two games I want to. Having me buy their PC games on their (awful) W10 store does force me to have some reason to invest in one of their ecosystems now.
Monty Mole
Member
The problem with Microsoft is that the higher level just doesn't understand this market.
You think Mattrick was the reason for Kinect Kinect Kinect and the idiocy behind the original XBO plans? No, it was corporate pressure from Ballmer et al railroading the division in to what they believed should have been the plan. I'm sure Mattrick had the best of intentions when joining MS then will have suffered endless board meetings until the point of no return. And I'm sure Spencer is going through the same shit right now, being 'reminded' by his bosses that he doesn't work for the gamers who tweet him every day, he works for MS. And I'm sure he comes out of each and every one of those meetings wanting the bang his head hard against a wall.
That's what working for these big corporations is like. Sony did the right thing when SCE was basically run as a separate company, not to mention the three regional entities competing against each other ensured better global reach with localised strategy and marketing. Microsoft learned nothing from Sony in this regard. What a mess..
You think Mattrick was the reason for Kinect Kinect Kinect and the idiocy behind the original XBO plans? No, it was corporate pressure from Ballmer et al railroading the division in to what they believed should have been the plan. I'm sure Mattrick had the best of intentions when joining MS then will have suffered endless board meetings until the point of no return. And I'm sure Spencer is going through the same shit right now, being 'reminded' by his bosses that he doesn't work for the gamers who tweet him every day, he works for MS. And I'm sure he comes out of each and every one of those meetings wanting the bang his head hard against a wall.
That's what working for these big corporations is like. Sony did the right thing when SCE was basically run as a separate company, not to mention the three regional entities competing against each other ensured better global reach with localised strategy and marketing. Microsoft learned nothing from Sony in this regard. What a mess..
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
My post was purely referencing "tanking" sales.
20 million consoles 2 years and change in isn't tanking. No matter how much some want it to be.
People keep claiming this, lacking any source. Hasn't this been untrue for at least a year, as far as sparse (MS hasn't been releasing numbers for quite a while) publicly available data has shown? Really sounds unlikely Xbone is still outselling 360 launch-aligned.
GusBricker
Member
Kinect's 360 success doomed the Xbox One, in all seriousness.
While I actually like and use my Kinect quite a lot, it's just a gimmick and it just put them far behind from the start.
While I actually like and use my Kinect quite a lot, it's just a gimmick and it just put them far behind from the start.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
That's a shame. I like radical dreamers, even if they're only human.
Anime lover 69
Banned
Whoa, thinking about it makes sense partly sense their last game was in 2010 and legends seems to have zero following.
Papacheeks
Banned
The specs are not yet set in stone. Remember Sony changed their specs when they revealed in February. Nintendo could make some decisions on amount of memory cpu speed, right up before late july before production.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
You would think they would send the best talent to Rare.
