yes. Hopefully new engines become more efficient. Like UE4 promises.
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List of studios closed since 2006
- Thread starter Kifimbo
- Start date
yes. Hopefully new engines become more efficient. Like UE4 promises.
Canis lupus
Member
Sega New Entertainment (former am4)
Even if that is true that probably won't mean that costs will come down, just that they won't rise as rapidly as they did this past generation.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Blame it on a lack of variety in genres and scale of titles too. Every previous generation had its incredibly large, expensive game projects too, relative to the scale of typical costs for the era. But the difference seems to be, those 'AAA' games of their time were the exception.
The last six years has seen the push to make as many games as possible 'AAA' in terms of technology deployed and production values. That's just nuts and not sustainable. And I wonder if it hasn't created its own demon; conditioned an audience of gamers to only play (and desire) incredibly lush, movie-like or technologically lavish experiences.
The industry then panders to that audience, chasing a perceived big time dollar, and grinds more studios into the ground crackin' that whip to push the triple-A boulder up the hill.
Thing is, I am not sure how much new engine technologies alone will really help the situation. Much of what goes into the AAA (and next AAAA) game production are cut scenes, hollywood style direction, soundtracks, massive voice casts, and more.
I've wondered for a few years now if an audience that will only buy games like that will end up getting starved out should support for developing such titles collapse. It seems some in the industry are hoping this sort of "AAA F2P" model will somehow save the Epic Game, but I don't know if that's viable for more than a few F2P titles that hit it big and are able to support production values like that. Get this image of AAA(A) game producers fleeing from one refuge to the next, until they have their backs against the cliffs with nowhere to go but onto the rocks below.
It seems to be the PC world, thanks to digital distribution cutting so many smaller devs and publishers a break, is where some form of sanity still reigns.
Link1110
Member
This Thad needs one of these http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneWomanWail
metalslimer
Member
It seems like the industry has finally done in almost every mid tier developer and publisher. THQ will probably be gone as a publisher in the next year. Sega seems to be heading towards barely being a publisher. Somehow people think new consoles are going to magically solve this industry's sales and creative problems? No, honestly it seems like we're watching a very slow train wreck occur. Either something has to change in the next 2-3 years or gaming as we know will completely change.
UE4 can't help with making the production pipeline that much more efficient, since it still takes an artist a long time to create a multi-thousand polygonal model (and a high res mesh, with various LOD's) in Maya/Max/etc (add in various revisions, or start-overs), . I suppose the only upside is that the high poly model might be all that's needed with higher performing engines, but I doubt it.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Nah, you are just going to have higher resolution textures for the characters
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It'll be even worse once investors get really cold feet in the near future.
Yup horrible. Some massive change is needed or new vg crash might happen. That or we end up with five ip that get sequels. Yes most of them shooters. Plus from what i understand making psn/xbl games is not so profitable as it might Seem
It'll be even worse once investors get really cold feet in the near future.
ok this is the first time I read this and this is depressing. And to think people want Microsoft and Sony to make the Xbox720 and PS4 to be as powerful as possible without even thinking of the consequences. Do people really want a repeat of $599? are people willing to pay more than $60 for a game? Both companies have been bleeding money this gen and I sure hope these will change next gen.
If theres one thing both companies needs to learn is not to do the same thing they did with the 360 and PS3. So I guess Im on the camp that the successors to these consoles will not be that much of a generational leap in terms of hardware specs compared to current gen.
If theres one thing both companies needs to learn is not to do the same thing they did with the 360 and PS3. So I guess Im on the camp that the successors to these consoles will not be that much of a generational leap in terms of hardware specs compared to current gen.
I posted in another forum that the current problem with out of control spending is rooting in developers making only triple A games with not focus to C or B tier titles. Pretty much the summary of what Kaijima has already posted. It seems to be taking seriously in the game business today you need to 'full' production or else you are either considered lazy or cheap. I remember reading in another forum not too long ago when a poster said that games like Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword were not triple A games because there was no voice action, FMV cutscenes, or motion caption.
I am not saying that all developers are like this, but there seems to be pressure from both publishers and some within the fan base to only make triple A games, while remaining creative and new. Not to mention that it seems to have become a standard to make a lot of these triple A games yearly or bio-yearly release. In other words some gamers and publishers want game that have voice acting, FMV cutscenes, Hollywood writing staff and musicians, new game mechanics, and a short development period. This is a tall order for big studios and nearly impossible for smaller game studios.
One way to help fix or at least control this problem is to scale back the order of triple A games and bring back modest, but fun games. Not everything needs the works to be successful and I think the industry needs to rediscovered this.
I am not saying that all developers are like this, but there seems to be pressure from both publishers and some within the fan base to only make triple A games, while remaining creative and new. Not to mention that it seems to have become a standard to make a lot of these triple A games yearly or bio-yearly release. In other words some gamers and publishers want game that have voice acting, FMV cutscenes, Hollywood writing staff and musicians, new game mechanics, and a short development period. This is a tall order for big studios and nearly impossible for smaller game studios.
One way to help fix or at least control this problem is to scale back the order of triple A games and bring back modest, but fun games. Not everything needs the works to be successful and I think the industry needs to rediscovered this.
Alex
Member
Having high-end hardware isn't a problem by itself, and I see no issue with asking for it. Having publishers who have little idea what is going on with the gaming market and it's evolution serving as an extremely strict and obnoxious gateway for that hardware is the problem.
If you want to know what is going to happen with gaming in the future, you can just look at the PC, it already crashed and revived and the market and the actual content creators are much better off for it. You're going to see relaxed policies, lots of tiers of pricing and types of releases, lots of kinds of services. When these developers keel over, they aren't just exiting the industry entirely, they're pretty often re-birthing into PC and mobile and general digital distribution developers.
There will always be a place for very high end games though, and plenty of developers are skilled enough in those areas to keep it safely rolling for themselves, which is why having that expensive do-everything hardware is fine to have.
Having publishers and investors demanding insane risk to reward that only speaks in terms of the budget of the game is what is killing consoles. Doesn't help when all of the console makers largely only working with those types. That's the barrier currently, some of them are trying to relax policies but they're not working quickly or smoothly enough compared to more reliable platforms.
If you want to know what is going to happen with gaming in the future, you can just look at the PC, it already crashed and revived and the market and the actual content creators are much better off for it. You're going to see relaxed policies, lots of tiers of pricing and types of releases, lots of kinds of services. When these developers keel over, they aren't just exiting the industry entirely, they're pretty often re-birthing into PC and mobile and general digital distribution developers.
There will always be a place for very high end games though, and plenty of developers are skilled enough in those areas to keep it safely rolling for themselves, which is why having that expensive do-everything hardware is fine to have.
Having publishers and investors demanding insane risk to reward that only speaks in terms of the budget of the game is what is killing consoles. Doesn't help when all of the console makers largely only working with those types. That's the barrier currently, some of them are trying to relax policies but they're not working quickly or smoothly enough compared to more reliable platforms.
EatinOlives
Member
The problem isn't at all inherent to the rising power of the hardware. It might contribute, but it alone is not the reason.
There isn't going to be a repeat of $599, but that's because Sony isn't going to stick novelty items like the Cell and Blu-Ray, which were included in the first place for Sony's own reasons and had only tangential uses in console gaming. Focusing on easier to use CPUs/GPUs that follow their respective natural jumps in tech from 2006 to 2012 and sticking with current-generation Blu-Ray (which is much better and cheaper to boot) absolutely makes plenty of room for a generational leap without it costing $599. The 360 launched without any bleeding-edge novelty tech and it had a price tag of two HUNDRED less.
Your conclusion that these games will cost more than $60 doesn't hold much water either. This whole generation has seen plenty of new monetization experiments. DLC ranging from full expansion to Microtransactions and Free-to-Play games have proven both successful and able to provide revenue. Crytek is moving entirely to F2P, and several major studios and publishers see that model being the future. Evidence doesn't at all point to more expensive one-time purhcases, it points in exactly the opposite direction.
A lot of these studios were closed for a wide variety of reasons. Some studios simply gambled it all in one game and failed. Some had their studios restructured into "more profitable" divisions as per the whim of their publishers or parent companies. Some studios failed out of incompetence/assholery from a few sour higher-ups (Team Bondi being a big example). Some like 38 Studios were freak experiments gone wrong. Some sputtered and died from 10+ years of circling the drain (3D Realms), and just happened to die during the current generation. None of those cases were due solely to the increase in hardware power.
Studios fail. All the time. They failed by the dozens during the PS2/GC/Xbox era. Hell, we had the major console player that was Sega completely drop out of relevance in the previous generation, and we don't go around saying that's because console hardware was too crazy. Shit happens, but pointing the finger at the hardware itself isn't at all telling the whole story, even if it's the easy scapegoat right now. Undoubtedly some studios buckled under their own budget, but even then there's no way of knowing that it was due to production values being too high and not instead due to an inefficient development process. And remember that despite the list in the first post, you still have another large (maybe even larger) list of startup studios and long-running studios that have enjoyed far more success this generation than they ever had in the past.
That's not going to happen if you consider the fact that in terms of development costs the New Super Mario Bros. series is a low-tier title, but sells like it was a AAA title. Those 'casual' and 'bridge' titles of Nintendo's that sell oodles and oodles at $50 are what pay for the B-level titles that Nintendo makes. That's why Nintendo sees its biggest threat as being $0.99 games, since making say New Super Mario Bros. Wii into a $15 downloadable title would lose potential income for Nintendo while not netting a vast increase of players. After all, said players could buy and have bought the NES Mario games for $5 a pop and the SNES Mario game for $8 on Virtual Console.
The difference is that Nintendo basically knows how to exploit its fanbase for maximum profit to fund their less successful games. We may joke about Nintendo putting a SNES ROM on a Wii disk and selling it for $30, but said SNES ROM Port sold two million copies.
walking fiend
Member
It is; once people pay a hefty premium price just to get a high-end hardware, then they expect their games to utilize that hardware, or else they would feel like they are getting a low quality game and the money they paid for the hardware has been useless.
PC and consoles are not comparable at all.
Unlike consoles, PCs comes in a huge variety, while people are stuck with their consoles for usually a generation. The best selling PC games by far require a very modest hardware to run adequately: StarCraft 2, WoW, LoL, DotA2, Diablo 3, etc.
On PC, there have always been such demand for technologically very high end games.
However,
1. The PC crowd had people who were willing to pay for high end hardware, but it wasn't like everyone had/wanted to do the same.
2. On PC, most genres didn't require a high end hardware, because their target demographic didn't require one to begin with
3. On PC, high end hardware was also used to deliver very high IQ in terms of fps, AA, resolution, etc. which didn't incur any extra cost on the development.
The main problem with high end Console, is that you can't choose to get only part of the advancement, but have to pay for all of it.
From last gen to this, there was many other advances beside graphics jump: significant online improvement, digital distribution, AI advancement, wireless and improved controllers, cheap storage, revamped OS, etc.
You can get a lot of these on the PC without the need to change your hardware much; or at least through the normal pace you change your PC.
It's not exploitation, it is the value of their intellectual property; 2D Mario games still are very good games, probably better than most 2D platformers released nowadays. It's not like you can get movies released in 1950s for $0.99
Open Source
Banned
The problem is that the barrier to effectively competing in the space gets higher and higher. That's why everything that's not an AAA/licensed game is now $15 or less, often F2P.
Actually you can get a double features of movies from that time period for $1, but it will be the crud that you usually find commented on by MST3K. You ain't getting Casablanca at that price.
Exploitation might've been too harsh a term since Mario games are almost always worth the price of admission, but I bet most publishers wished they could get away with half of what Nintendo usually gets away with.
The french team "Etranges Libellules" just closed this week.
They made Alice in wonderland (at least the Wii version), one spyro game and a few other licence games.
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/studio-etranges-libellules-ferme-portes-100000024.html
They made Alice in wonderland (at least the Wii version), one spyro game and a few other licence games.
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/studio-etranges-libellules-ferme-portes-100000024.html
The reason why Nintendo can sell their older games at a fairly high price is because Nintendo makes good, classic games that holds up to the test of time. It says a lot that people still enjoy playing the original Super Mario Brothers and Zelda despite both having superior sequels. It is no different that people willing to pay full 3D movie price to see movies like Titanic or Star Wars. If people feel the produce is good, they are willing to pay a higher than usual price for the produce. Even Sega can price their older games at a fairly high price since they were also very good and worth more than other games produced in that same time period.
On subject, I think the reason why Nintendo does so well is because they found a good balance between their high budget games like 3D Mario and Zelda and their more B tier games like Mario Tennis and Mario Party. It also helps that a lot of Nintendo biggest sellers are triple A games that does not have a triple A budget like Mario Kart and the 2D Mario games. I think others in the industry also have to find a similar budget or lower the amount of IPs like what Sega is doing now.
walking fiend
Member
wish them well where ever they go; apparently they didn't had any project since 2010 and it has been only a matter of time...
Obviously; it's not like Nintendo can get away with that kind of pricing for all of their games; it's just a matter of quality: Metroid Other M is is bomba bin, while Trilogy is now rare to find
Loghorn150
Banned
The problem with this is, IMO, the reason why we've been hearing stories about many publishers/developers going belly up is because the majority of them focused on making AAA, Hollywood cinematic-like titles, as well as making MMORPG's. Those models are very unsustainable, & are very broken. And they need to start getting out of it by making more lower-budget titles, & making less AAA titles (start cutting down on AAA budget titles). That's how many indie publishers & developers make a lot of profit.
Look at Ubisoft with Rayman Origins. Even though that game managed to "bomb" in sales, it still managed to turn Ubisoft a profit. Why? Because it wasn't a AAA, big-budget title.
While you may be right about the PS3, using such very powerful GPU's & CPU's can make consoles just as expensive as putting in Blu-Ray back in 2005-2006. Microsoft used something like a mid-ranged GPU (which was top-of-the-line back then), & still managed to take losses from their launch until 2008, including Epic convincing them to up the RAM inside the 360 from 256 MB, to 512 MB. That move alone costed MS $1 Billion (Link). Not only that, but the GPU inside the 360 is what led to the RROD debacle.
Look at Ubisoft with Rayman Origins. Even though that game managed to "bomb" in sales, it still managed to turn Ubisoft a profit. Why? Because it wasn't a AAA, big-budget title.
While you may be right about the PS3, using such very powerful GPU's & CPU's can make consoles just as expensive as putting in Blu-Ray back in 2005-2006. Microsoft used something like a mid-ranged GPU (which was top-of-the-line back then), & still managed to take losses from their launch until 2008, including Epic convincing them to up the RAM inside the 360 from 256 MB, to 512 MB. That move alone costed MS $1 Billion (Link). Not only that, but the GPU inside the 360 is what led to the RROD debacle.
encephalon
Member
The owner of the website Chris' Survival Horror quest was referring to higher dev costs hurting the industry last gen. I know that this doesn't necessarily make him an expert, but apparently he worked in the industry. Specifically on a few spiderman games.
alfredofroylan
Member
Game Republic had so much potential, the graphic design on their games still holds pretty well.
They still have to pay licensing fees in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Update on Milestone Inc. (Shooter Dev):
k.h.d.n, the studio's art and sound team (and key creative force) split up earlier this year in feud so huge, they publicized it on the official website. Months later, the news is that they've reunited —not at Milestone—but at a mysterious game corp called "Klon." And wouldn't you know it: Klon is hyping a live k.h.d.n concert.
Meanwhile, Milestone's site is disintegrating, their Twitter is inactive, and there's been no news on either of their 3DS titles in almost 18 months. Stick a fork in it.
[EDIT] ONE YEAR LATER: Milestone has not only closed, their president has been arrested:
LOL, like a throwback to the 80's when all those seedy natural gas companies were opening game studios, only now in reverse. And here's Kimura in a 2009 interview:
k.h.d.n, the studio's art and sound team (and key creative force) split up earlier this year in feud so huge, they publicized it on the official website. Months later, the news is that they've reunited —not at Milestone—but at a mysterious game corp called "Klon." And wouldn't you know it: Klon is hyping a live k.h.d.n concert.
Meanwhile, Milestone's site is disintegrating, their Twitter is inactive, and there's been no news on either of their 3DS titles in almost 18 months. Stick a fork in it.
[EDIT] ONE YEAR LATER: Milestone has not only closed, their president has been arrested:
LOL, like a throwback to the 80's when all those seedy natural gas companies were opening game studios, only now in reverse. And here's Kimura in a 2009 interview:
Well played, Milestone. You may have been small, but you could shit the bed with the best of them. Add yourselves to industry lore.
That was it. According to Yukio Futatsugi, Microsoft gave up internal development in Japan after Phantom Dust was finished. The work they began on Lost Odyssey was given over to FeelPlus, and Futatsugi became an outside-the-studio Design Manager, overseeing Blue Dragon, Ninety-Nine Nights, and Lost Odyssey. [SOURCE]
The studio was absorbed into Codemasters, but Sega retained six employees to form the "Sega Technology Group," now most likely known as Hardlight. They were expected to develop a Vita exclusive, but word now is that they've moved to iOS. [URL="http://www.develop-online.net/features/1311/Survivors-of-the-Sega-Racing-Studio"]["Sega Tech Group"] ["Hardlight"] ["Vita to iOS"][/URL]
JordanN
Banned
Ooh, death thread bump.
Chance to bring one back from the "dead". Krome Studios is still going. Have been under the radar for a couple of years (as mentioned in the note in the OP), working on a few different things, and just released an iOS game to beta in Canada
Boomerang Blast
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/boomerang-blast/id532039064?mt=8
Chance to bring one back from the "dead". Krome Studios is still going. Have been under the radar for a couple of years (as mentioned in the note in the OP), working on a few different things, and just released an iOS game to beta in Canada
Boomerang Blast
http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/boomerang-blast/id532039064?mt=8
Rhomega Beta
Member
Eden Games? Well, the Test Drive Unlimited games were fun...
Cheesemeister
Member
Captain Smoker
Member
Is there a list of studios that opened since 2006?
Would be interesting to reconstruct some of the video game history.
Gas Powered Games (Supreme Commander) - all-in on KS...probably to fail D:
Vigil Games (Darksiders)
Junction Point (Epic Mickey) - Rumor
Mitchell Corporation (Puzzloop/Magnetica) - From source near developer?
Funcom Montreal (Age of Conan?)
Funcom Beijing (The Secret World)
Zynga Boston (Indiana Jones Adventure World)
Zynga Japan
Would be interesting to reconstruct some of the video game history.
From another poster:
Gas Powered Games (Supreme Commander) - all-in on KS...probably to fail D:
Vigil Games (Darksiders)
Junction Point (Epic Mickey) - Rumor
Mitchell Corporation (Puzzloop/Magnetica) - From source near developer?
Funcom Montreal (Age of Conan?)
Funcom Beijing (The Secret World)
Zynga Boston (Indiana Jones Adventure World)
Zynga Japan
Hero of Legend
Member
WHAT?! They just finished Tokyo Crash Mobs on 3DS eShop, surely Nintendo would make sure they stay afloat and if any trouble was brewing would offer their hand?
Just found out today that ELB closed in 2012, that's why they were quiet since HTTYD in 2010.
Loved Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon on Wii, Alice was okay, I was hoping it would've been the successor to Spyro, it was... kinda... but it missed bits that made it special, a lot of it was the music, which ironically in Alice was composed by Richard Jacques, you'd think I'd love it, but the music was pretty dull and forgettable, I guess he's at his best when he makes EU Pop music ala Sonic R.
And I do hope Milestone JP comes out of this rut they're in, tragic we never got Milestone Shooting Collection 2 on Wii in NA. :'( A straight Wii U port would suffice.
RiotPelaaja
Remedy
Hi,
is there a list of new triple-a video game developers started since say, 2008 somewhere? What else is there outside of Sledgehammer? (and a bunch of indies) Thanks for your help.
is there a list of new triple-a video game developers started since say, 2008 somewhere? What else is there outside of Sledgehammer? (and a bunch of indies) Thanks for your help.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Toadthemushroom
Member
Sega Racing Studio might be worth adding to the list, Sega set them up to revive/reboot Sega Rally on the (then) current gen, but after Sega Rally Revo launched to what I'd assume were lower than expected sales they were shuttered.