The Blue Jihad
Member
I'd love to beta test for you guys, if you'll have me.
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LittleBig Contra is OUT NOW!! Let's Attack Aggressively, GAF
- Thread starter MisterAnderson
- Start date
MisterAnderson
Member
In my attempts to make a custom level icon for each stage, I've failed at capturing the perfect framing of the dynamic duo Contra sackboys that I currently have as my level icon and have posted earlier on this thread. If I can't make these look good I think we should all just use the one I'm using, assuming no one opposes the idea, but in the meantime I'll keep trying.
donkey show
Member
Hey MisterAnderson, I wanted to know what you thought about the scale of my Alien's Lair and if certain parts were hard to recognize in terms of platforms and whatnot.
MisterAnderson
Member
donkey show said:
Nah man everything looks great, the scale is fine and you compensated for the LBP scale accordingly. Can't wait to play the finished version. Did you get my PSN message regarding being able to mail out your key to friends?
And Raist: check your PM's I'll send you the combination to get the beta key.
donkey show
Member
Good deal! How did the unfinished heart look, btw? Also, I got your message about the key but haven't implemented it yet. Adding in all those mouths took a huge toll on my thermo though. Hope I can spare a bit more in order to implement the "end."MisterAnderson said:
MisterAnderson
Member
donkey show said:
The heart looked really good dude, all the material you picked looks perfect (for the entire stage). Hopefully you'll be able to implement the "end" heh, it would be pretty epic. I can send you the helicopter I use for my spawn point if you'd like, just let me know.
You said you start your new job on Wednesday? Just curious as to how soon you think you can be ready to publish since most of us think we can have a finalized version sometime this week. Obviously we all have lives (I'm actually going out of town on Tuesday) and this is a fun project and not a paying job, but just want to know what kind of time frame you are thinking so we can have a gameplan ready for release. Despite my leaving town I will have access to the internet and a PS3 so I will be able to publish with everyone whenever we decide to.
Hopefully Teknoman provides us with that video teaser soon! Can't wait to see what he's been working on.
Oookay. So I've beaten the Jungle stage. So awesum. Really hard, but not "unfair-hard".
And holy shit @ the boss.
I have yet to beat Energy Zone. Minor gripe: the flamethrowers timing might deserve to be tweaked a liiiiil' bit because sometimes it's just too fast (especially when it's combined with platforming) and can be a bit frustrating at times.
At one point (can't remember where exactly) the ennemies respawn a bit too fast too, so it can be hard to go forward without dying.
Now, I don't know if it's possible, but for both stages the respawn points could replaced a bit. When playing with another player, if one dies, you always have to wait the other guy to die to be able to respawn. That's a bit annoying for the MP experience.
Really good stuff folks, can't wait to try the other levels.
And holy shit @ the boss.
I have yet to beat Energy Zone. Minor gripe: the flamethrowers timing might deserve to be tweaked a liiiiil' bit because sometimes it's just too fast (especially when it's combined with platforming) and can be a bit frustrating at times.
At one point (can't remember where exactly) the ennemies respawn a bit too fast too, so it can be hard to go forward without dying.
Now, I don't know if it's possible, but for both stages the respawn points could replaced a bit. When playing with another player, if one dies, you always have to wait the other guy to die to be able to respawn. That's a bit annoying for the MP experience.
Really good stuff folks, can't wait to try the other levels.
MisterAnderson
Member
Glad to hear that Jungle is beatable, lol. Keep trying on Energy Zone, the part you are stuck at (I think I know which part you're talking about) might be easier if you take a different path. Just a hint, lol.
And regarding the checkpoint with co-op, as much as I'd love for it to work the way you're describing, LBP requires the checkpoint to be in view in order for a dead teammate to respawn immediately. The only fix for that is to make the checkpoint always be in view. And that isn't possible without redesigning a lot of the stages since there's a lot of "working behind the scenes" things going on under the checkpoint and above the playing field.
And regarding the checkpoint with co-op, as much as I'd love for it to work the way you're describing, LBP requires the checkpoint to be in view in order for a dead teammate to respawn immediately. The only fix for that is to make the checkpoint always be in view. And that isn't possible without redesigning a lot of the stages since there's a lot of "working behind the scenes" things going on under the checkpoint and above the playing field.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I also went back in after about a week off. Still as fun as ever.
TrAcEr_x90
Member
are you guys still working on these levels? or can i do a search to play them yet?
ThirstyFly
Member
Raist said:
I still can't beat the boss! *shakes fist*
But when I do, oh yes, when I do, the victory dance shall be glorious!
MisterAnderson said:
Feel free to tack a key onto the end of Jungle for Base 1 for everyone you're letting beta test it. I'm more or less done with Base 1. Didn't get much done on Base 2 this weekend I'm afraid, save for more or less finalizing the intro area. Got a finance midterm upcoming so that's been my priority, with admittedly too much Street Fighter 4.
MiamiWesker
Member
Holy crap dudes, beta tested jungle and energy zone, woah! This project is going to be amazing. I PMed all my impressions to misteranderson.
donkey show
Member
That'd be good with the helicopter actually. It'd probably help streamline the work I have so far and make it that much easier to finish. I can probably finish by week's end since after tonight's night shift, I have two days off before I head to my new desk and tell people what to do. :lol It'll be all good.MisterAnderson said:
MisterAnderson
Member
Ok guys sorry I haven't responded or been active today, I had to work and just got back. I got some good feedback from our current testers and I'll forward them to the rest of the team in a bit, and I'll add your key as well Jaeyden.
So to all the testers: Hangar's key will soon be available in the beta key level, I'll add it in shortly.
To everyone asking if they are published yet: The answer is no, but if you want to test them out, PM me and I'll give you the combination for the key to play.
UPDATE
Hangar and Waterfall's keys were added to the beta key level so testers: pick them up if you want to test them!
So to all the testers: Hangar's key will soon be available in the beta key level, I'll add it in shortly.
To everyone asking if they are published yet: The answer is no, but if you want to test them out, PM me and I'll give you the combination for the key to play.
UPDATE
Hangar and Waterfall's keys were added to the beta key level so testers: pick them up if you want to test them!
MisterAnderson
Member
Orz said:
You're going to have to send me your key as an object before I can do that, I'll add it as soon as you do!
(try to send it before tomorrow morning because I'm going out of town in the afternoon)MisterAnderson I'm sorry for bothering you with my stupidity regarding sticker switches. This was the first community level I had played that employed them and it never occured to me that they would show in a different area of the popit than they do in story mode.
Having established myself as an idiot, you'll be happy to hear that Jungle appears to be idiot-proof. In around a dozen plays I haven't trapped myself in the scenery or encountered any other bugs. The bridges seem to be 100% non lethal despite exploding so nicely.
Gameplay, sound, visuals, pacing, everything gels nicely.
I especially like the lighting. The way it varies in intensity as you move by really sells the impression of the sun filtering through the canopy.
Still haven't finished it although that's probably more an indictment of my skills as they wither with age than the level's difficulty.
I wasn't a big fan of Contra back in the day but I'm loving this and I look forward to trying the other levels, which I'm sure will be excellent from what I know of the authors involved.
Having established myself as an idiot, you'll be happy to hear that Jungle appears to be idiot-proof. In around a dozen plays I haven't trapped myself in the scenery or encountered any other bugs. The bridges seem to be 100% non lethal despite exploding so nicely.
Gameplay, sound, visuals, pacing, everything gels nicely.
I especially like the lighting. The way it varies in intensity as you move by really sells the impression of the sun filtering through the canopy.
Still haven't finished it although that's probably more an indictment of my skills as they wither with age than the level's difficulty.
I wasn't a big fan of Contra back in the day but I'm loving this and I look forward to trying the other levels, which I'm sure will be excellent from what I know of the authors involved.
MisterAnderson
Member
New version of Jungle was just published.
Changes:
-Added emitters near each floor turret that will emit an invisible wall of dark matter in front of the gap in the back layer to prevent random layer switch deaths (when the game thinks you want to go in a certain layer but it's the wrong one). Now the player will always walk around the gap.
-I now award 29 score bubbles before the scoreboard as well as the badge if you complete the stage without using the code. Combined it's a 6x multiplier so it's a hefty score boost.
-Added in Jaeyden's race coin sticker into the scoreboard rewards (used to be some random star sticker I made as a temporary one), and added a race coin decoration to the helicopter to hopefully make it easier to tell where to place the sticker to activate the race.
-Adjusted the race time to 420 seconds (used to be 180) so it's much more user friendly and easier to complete the race.
-Some other minor tweaks that aren't even worth mentioning.
Changes:
-Added emitters near each floor turret that will emit an invisible wall of dark matter in front of the gap in the back layer to prevent random layer switch deaths (when the game thinks you want to go in a certain layer but it's the wrong one). Now the player will always walk around the gap.
-I now award 29 score bubbles before the scoreboard as well as the badge if you complete the stage without using the code. Combined it's a 6x multiplier so it's a hefty score boost.
-Added in Jaeyden's race coin sticker into the scoreboard rewards (used to be some random star sticker I made as a temporary one), and added a race coin decoration to the helicopter to hopefully make it easier to tell where to place the sticker to activate the race.
-Adjusted the race time to 420 seconds (used to be 180) so it's much more user friendly and easier to complete the race.
-Some other minor tweaks that aren't even worth mentioning.
MisterAnderson said:You're going to have to send me your key as an object before I can do that, I'll add it as soon as you do!
I've sent both keys for Base 1 and Base 2 for you to place in the beta key level. I've more or less wrapped up Base 2 save for a few small items.
- Advancing wall wreckage now works. Doubled it up to see if it creates a better effect. May change that.
- Boss enemies now fire on the right plane. Enemies need to spawn more frequently, and the boss need more HP.
- Finished the intro area connecting from Waterfall.
- Finished the outro area connecting to Snowfield, though I may add a few things.
All comments are welcome, especially if any new players find any part of it difficult or confusing.
MisterAnderson
Member
Orz said:
I got both of your files but for some reason it didn't download base 2 key, I added base 1 in the meantime but you are going to have to resend base 2
ThirstyFly
Member
So question for the all of the authors before I really go into depth testing the newly added levels, what kind of feedback are you guys looking for? Just for us to go in and try to break things/find glitches or did you also want opinions on what we think doesn't quite work/fit in/feel Contra-ish/etc?
I've gone over some stuff with MisterAnderson for the jungle level, and I'm not sure if I was nitpicking things too much or not as Contra is one of my absolute faves, and if I see something that's a little too different than what I got out of the original game (aside from tweaks so things work better in the LBP world) I tend to see it as a flaw, but others may disagree.
I just want to make sure I'm not stepping out of bounds of what you'd like from us and I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impose what I think the levels should/shouldn't contain as that's obviously up the the authors who spent so much time on this amazing project.
I've gone over some stuff with MisterAnderson for the jungle level, and I'm not sure if I was nitpicking things too much or not as Contra is one of my absolute faves, and if I see something that's a little too different than what I got out of the original game (aside from tweaks so things work better in the LBP world) I tend to see it as a flaw, but others may disagree.
I just want to make sure I'm not stepping out of bounds of what you'd like from us and I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impose what I think the levels should/shouldn't contain as that's obviously up the the authors who spent so much time on this amazing project.
MisterAnderson
Member
ThirstyFly said:
Any type of feedback is welcome, especially if a Contra fan finds something out of line or unlike the original game. Alternatively, try to also take into consideration that there are some things that won't be replicable or exact since it either isn't possible or it was attempted to be made better - in which case you can definitely voice your opinion if you think it's better or worse. At any rate, all feedback is appreciated
How is the newer version of jungle working out for you? If you hadn't of told me about the problems with the enemy behavior I probably wouldn't have changed it, but now I think it's changed for the better, so thanks for that. I haven't messed around with the turret frequency yet, but I tried to fix the other things like the boss issues and, well you know the rest lol.By the way, have you beaten it yet? Heh
ThirstyFly
Member
MisterAnderson said:Any type of feedback is welcome, especially if a Contra fan finds something out of line or unlike the original game. Alternatively, try to also take into consideration that there are some things that won't be replicable or exact since it either isn't possible or it was attempted to be made better - in which case you can definitely voice your opinion if you think it's better or worse. At any rate, all feedback is appreciated
By the way, have you beaten it yet? Heh
Thanks for the response - I will keep that in mind. After seeing more of the levels and getting a better idea of the direction you guys decided to go I think I'll be able to look at the levels with a little less strict eye. It's good that you've decided to make some of the changes that you have, as I'm sure we've all seen how exact attempts at recreating games in LBP have failed with all those awful Super Mario Bros levels.
I haven't had a chance to go back in and check the latest version of the jungle, but I'm really going to sit down and spend some time serious time playing though everything that's up in order, so I'll probably have something to say about it tomorrow.
One thing I think worth mentioning is that every time I've played the level and had my ass handed to me, I got just a tiny bit further each attempt, so it definitely has that Contra learning curve and feeling of success as you slowly get better. That's probably what I'd consider to be the soul of the Contra series, and you've really captured that.
And nope, haven't beaten it yet
MisterAnderson
Member
Added your key to the beta level, Orz.
I also published an updated Jungle.
Changes:
-Added a line of dialog from the helicopter pilot prior to the drop. If it feels too tacky or unnecessary let me know because I'm not sure about it, I just figured I'd put it in and see what people think.
-Changed the shape of the water from the cartoony pointy waves to a more realistic rolling wave look. Let me know if you think the change is for the better or worse. I think it looks better and it freed up some thermo so I could do the following:
-Decked out the ocean floor under the bridges (and a few other places) with seaweed and added more geometry to the cliff sides.
-Made a more badass explosion when the boss is destroyed. Also added smoke to the "boss wreckage" after the explosion.
-Increased the frequency of the first turret from .7 to .9 seconds.
Edit: I've encountered a game breaking bug that I have no frieken idea how to fix. What's worse is I can't replicate it in the editor to see what it is that's causing it.
Sometimes when I destroy the weak spot of boss fight part 1, the middle section's brain chooses to not destroy itself. Somehow I guess a wire is disconnecting, but I can't figure out wtf it is since it won't ever happen to me in the editor, only in play mode. Please let me know if you ever encounter this bug and how often.
I also published an updated Jungle.
Changes:
-Added a line of dialog from the helicopter pilot prior to the drop. If it feels too tacky or unnecessary let me know because I'm not sure about it, I just figured I'd put it in and see what people think.
-Changed the shape of the water from the cartoony pointy waves to a more realistic rolling wave look. Let me know if you think the change is for the better or worse. I think it looks better and it freed up some thermo so I could do the following:
-Decked out the ocean floor under the bridges (and a few other places) with seaweed and added more geometry to the cliff sides.
-Made a more badass explosion when the boss is destroyed. Also added smoke to the "boss wreckage" after the explosion.
-Increased the frequency of the first turret from .7 to .9 seconds.
Edit: I've encountered a game breaking bug that I have no frieken idea how to fix. What's worse is I can't replicate it in the editor to see what it is that's causing it.
Sometimes when I destroy the weak spot of boss fight part 1, the middle section's brain chooses to not destroy itself. Somehow I guess a wire is disconnecting, but I can't figure out wtf it is since it won't ever happen to me in the editor, only in play mode. Please let me know if you ever encounter this bug and how often.
The Blue Jihad
Member
Okay, MisterAnderson was kind enough to send me the access key. My fiancee and I gave Jungle and Snowfield a run-through last night. I'm not sure if I was playing current versions but here are my thoughts:
Jungle
Generally, loved the level. Great look and feel. Captured Contra extremely well. LOVED how you did the water, man. Frigging incredible. Actually felt like I was swimming. However, we had a few issues:
1) The helicopter checkpoint. I understand and agree with the logic behind it: to keep the respawn close to the players, and to give each player three lives by having them respawn together and only simultaneously.
However, it just seems clunky in-game and tends to interrupt the original flow of the co-operative gameplay. In Contra, neither player was alone for too long after the other died. Instant re-spawns reduced player downtime and kept the action fresh. The only time death had a profound, lasting, super-penalty feel was when one player ran out of lives.
Here, having the forced simultaneous re-spawn feels very super-penalizing and drastically reduces the fun co-operative experience.
2) Bottom platform movement issue. Somewhere in the middle of the level, there's a platform at the bottom of the level, on the water. Underneath there's a collectible. It was easy getting under the platform but not intuitively easy to get out. Even I had trouble.
Seems like it's a combination of the land objects in the foreground, an underwater alcove built into the middle/background, and the platform itself limiting your jumping ability.
I'm thinking the best solution is to just remove the alcove.
3) Issue in the leaves area right before the boss. There's a spike wall that seems very out of place. Operates on a piston. Blocks the path through. Is the spike wall necessary?
Snowfield
1) The spawn point could stand some revision. I don't remember Contra Snowfield spawn-dropping you into enemy fire immediately. The version I played in LBC did precisely that. It was dumb luck that I managed to kill the enemy after my third and final respawn. The situation doesn't even feel challenging. It just feels cheap.
2) Enemy explosions. We died far too many times from an enemy helmet that exploded as we ran over it. The enemy was already dead, yet the helmet remained explosive. Is this a bug with the enemy design itself or the level?
~*~*~
There were other things I wanted to note here, but I completely forgot what they were, so I'll probably reply later with the rest.
Overall, really digging everything you guys are doing here!
Jungle
Generally, loved the level. Great look and feel. Captured Contra extremely well. LOVED how you did the water, man. Frigging incredible. Actually felt like I was swimming. However, we had a few issues:
1) The helicopter checkpoint. I understand and agree with the logic behind it: to keep the respawn close to the players, and to give each player three lives by having them respawn together and only simultaneously.
However, it just seems clunky in-game and tends to interrupt the original flow of the co-operative gameplay. In Contra, neither player was alone for too long after the other died. Instant re-spawns reduced player downtime and kept the action fresh. The only time death had a profound, lasting, super-penalty feel was when one player ran out of lives.
Here, having the forced simultaneous re-spawn feels very super-penalizing and drastically reduces the fun co-operative experience.
2) Bottom platform movement issue. Somewhere in the middle of the level, there's a platform at the bottom of the level, on the water. Underneath there's a collectible. It was easy getting under the platform but not intuitively easy to get out. Even I had trouble.
Seems like it's a combination of the land objects in the foreground, an underwater alcove built into the middle/background, and the platform itself limiting your jumping ability.
I'm thinking the best solution is to just remove the alcove.
3) Issue in the leaves area right before the boss. There's a spike wall that seems very out of place. Operates on a piston. Blocks the path through. Is the spike wall necessary?
Snowfield
1) The spawn point could stand some revision. I don't remember Contra Snowfield spawn-dropping you into enemy fire immediately. The version I played in LBC did precisely that. It was dumb luck that I managed to kill the enemy after my third and final respawn. The situation doesn't even feel challenging. It just feels cheap.
2) Enemy explosions. We died far too many times from an enemy helmet that exploded as we ran over it. The enemy was already dead, yet the helmet remained explosive. Is this a bug with the enemy design itself or the level?
~*~*~
There were other things I wanted to note here, but I completely forgot what they were, so I'll probably reply later with the rest.
Overall, really digging everything you guys are doing here!
MisterAnderson
Member
The Blue Jihad said:
Regarding the respawn system, I completely agree with you and it's always annoyed me but it's not a choice of ours to have it not respawn both players right after dying, it's a forced "feature" of LittleBigPlanet. The only way around that would be to have the helicopter way down low always in view, which might be possible but it would totally look out of place always being at the top of the screen in my opinion, and there would have to be a lot of changes and compromises to the higher sections of the stages to accommodate the room required for it.
With the secret underwater section, all it is is a carved opening into the walkable water material (glass) which is one piece and one layer thick. What makes it difficult to get out is a combination of the glass surface and the original intent that the player is supposed to wait for the water to get to the lowest point before attempting to get out. What ends up happening is the player gets impatient and keeps jumping over and over again, and in LBP if you keep jumping you never get the most out of your jumps it's just a series of short hops. That combined with the glass surface makes it annoying, so I'll probably just make the shape of the opening easier to jump out.
With the spike wall section, when you say it "blocks the path through." You know you can time your jump through it right? It's intent is to make the flow of the stage a little more interesting, since there are no good spots for enemies in that section and all it would be otherwise is jumping on those platforms, so I figured it would be a fun opportunity to add a new obstacle without butchering the original game. I also figured a spike wall wouldn't feel out of place since there are a lot of spike walls in Contra games, and particularly in the Jungle stage there are a lot of turret traps that spring out of the ground, so a spike wall springing out seemed like it wasn't treading out of bounds on that theme, but I guess it is out of place since it never was in there the original game
Try out the new version I published today and please let me know what you think about the new water shape I swapped out. I tried making it more realistic looking, as opposed to the cartoony old look it had, just would like some feedback if you think it looks better or worse.
Edit: I made the underwater openings wider, let me know if it's still too much trouble getting out or if it fixed it for you.
Reshot as much stuff as I could today, but I think energy zone is busted. Kept saying failed to load level. Also waterfall should still tone down some of the turrets (that triple turret crossfire section).
The lighting could stand to be a little brighter in waterfall as well. Oh and nice touches of the light shining through trees for the jungle stage. Wanted to do something like that for one of my stages :lol
The lighting could stand to be a little brighter in waterfall as well. Oh and nice touches of the light shining through trees for the jungle stage. Wanted to do something like that for one of my stages :lol
MisterAnderson
Member
Teknoman said:
Well I hope it's alright, I haven't tried loading it today but I'll try in a bit to see if it's working for me. Maybe El_Beefo just needs to republish.
Did you catch a glimpse of the new water shape I put in? Or did you film the shots before I changed it? Just wondering what you thought of them.
Cruzader said:
I'll add you and get you in a little bit later
ThirstyFly
Member
Man, I wish they'd replace the globe stuff with actual lists in LBP. I've hearted all the Contra levels I've tested so far and none of them show on my stupid planet, so every time I want to check changes, I have to either search for them again or try to shift though the massive mess that is my recently played planet. Rage!
MisterAnderson
Member
I just played it man, it looked great Glad you managed to work that out!
Glad you managed to work that out!MisterAnderson
Member
Is anyone on the team interested in me making objects out of the musical queues I have in my stage for you guys to import in? I'm guessing at this point the thermo's wouldn't take it, but if any of you are interested let me know and I can mail you it.
MisterAnderson
Member
Donkey Show and Teknoman, please check your PSN messages when you have a chance
I'll make them objects later today and send em
EL Beefo said:
I'll make them objects later today and send em
MisterAnderson
Member
Just a quick update guys, we are planning to release in the next day or so. We'll keep you updated on when exactly they are going live, but it shouldn't be long now
Edit: Also, I'm having a friend of mine who is an IGN insider to post a similar thread about us on the boards over there to hopefully generate more hype. He is also going to send in nominations for the stages for Level Lovers Anonymous, if any of you would be so generous as to do the same, the better our chances would be to get on there. It would be greatly appreciated!
Edit: Also, I'm having a friend of mine who is an IGN insider to post a similar thread about us on the boards over there to hopefully generate more hype. He is also going to send in nominations for the stages for Level Lovers Anonymous, if any of you would be so generous as to do the same, the better our chances would be to get on there. It would be greatly appreciated!
MisterAnderson
Member
Teknoman said:
Nice man! Can't wait
Kinda wish I was really skilled with video editing software, then we could've made something like this (except with 8-bit Contra gameplay transitioning to LBP graphics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqECtTE4Opk
EDIT: Actually we probably could. Just get a decent video of the first few seconds of Contra gameplay then bam, LBP style :lol All they did was a simple fade transition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqECtTE4Opk
EDIT: Actually we probably could. Just get a decent video of the first few seconds of Contra gameplay then bam, LBP style :lol All they did was a simple fade transition.
MisterAnderson
Member
Teknoman said:
That would be pretty damn cool :lol
Especially if you also did the transition to the vomitron cover from the 8-bit soundtrack