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[Boney]

Saw the Amanda Knox documentary a few weeks ago and was also boiling both at the police ineptitude and especially at the media circus surrounding the story. But movies are easier to watch since you can do it in one sitting while being pissed off about it.

Making a Murderer, a 10 episodes, that average over 50 minutes per episode, is even a bigger travesty and abuse of power. The original case was a complete fabrication based how they lead the victim to point out to Steven while disregarding everything else about the case. The lack of integrity made it so 3 more women got raped and an innocent man spent 18 years in prison for something he did not do.

I'm partway through episode 4 and Fast forward to the next incident, they settled without admitting to any accountability on the case and I'm not sure how the Avery Bill ended up, but I think it was not signed for political reasons over preventing any other gross miscarriage of justice.

Then the case. I'm still not sure what happened but fuck if I believe anything the cops are doing or saying. The car just having a few twigs to make it stand out is bs. The key being found by the two people that had the most to lose in the civil suit magically found the key in plain sight three days of into the search and no one from the county was even supposed to be there. I'm also calling be on the blood being there in plain sight by the keyhole in the car.

I'm incredibly saddened by the murder of a young woman. The charred bones was terrifying and the idea of someone planting that is just something I cannot fanthom. The rest I'm 100% it was planted evidence, but this, the idea of someone being so vile...

Of course, having the entire police department and DA abusing the Avery family, especially considering how they have an iq of a person that is mentally retarded. Carrying the questioning without any lawyer present. The judge dismissing the circumstances and inconsistencies surrounding Brandon's testimony, where there obviously was no blood in the bedroom and no handcuffs, it's pure bullshit.

Ruining people's life in order to cover up and to prevent the state department having to pay money they didn't have is sickening. Such intentional fraud is revolting and my heart can't take such abuse of a system that can just roll over individuals in such manner. Steven's iron will and conviction is incredible and I recall the documentary having a positive impact into the sentence that was carried.

I'm ranting I know, and I at least owe it to the Avery family, and every citizen to watch it despite of the seething rage that it gets out of me. But damn if it's not hard to go through the episodes.

 

[thechristoph]

After you watch that, track down a show called Murder Made Me Famous. They did an episode on the Avery case. It helps balance things out.

 

[sn00zer]

Yeah doc was crazy biased. Long story short, he probably actually did commit the second crime, the cops tried to make him look MORE guilty with the evidence issues.

 

[uncblue]

I'm not sure if he committed the murder or not, but the involvement by the local county police was shady. They were specifically told to take a seat on the sideline due to a conflict of interest. Yet, they were around for most if not all of the major evidence.

 

[Nozem]

I felt really bad for Brandon.

 

[Oemenia]

Yeah doc was crazy biased. Long story short, he probably actually did commit the second crime, the cops tried to make him look MORE guilty with the evidence issues.

Yeah this, seriously I know it's not enough to nail him but how did she exactly get killed?

 

[Boney]

That's why I haven't said if he or his nephew is guilty or not I have no idea. But other than the bones, which is chilling, all of it was an insane procedure. Closing off the property for more than a week and "searching" it 18 times. Blood no finger prints? Car was planted no ifs about it. The key only having Steven's DNA? Total bullshit. Having a legally mentally retarded kid testify without lawyers and being completely led throughout all of his testimonies violates constitutional rights.

So if everything else surrounding the murder was planted, where does it end?
And of course the documentary is biased, Amanda Knox was too and they construe a narrative based on the facts and how they are presented to you are. Steven is no angel, had the 2 crimes, which with the cat, GAF would have him executed. He very may well develop schizophrenia or bipolar disorder in prison, and the break up with his wife shows understandable bursts of anger. Her fiancée was an alcoholic and had DUI arrest.

But when the conspiracy to frame him turns out to be true, even if not proven to be on purpose (my ass). Then anything goes, and the lengths people will go to protect their interests, especially when you have the power to control all the chips in play. If I thought Brendan's laywer was payed off instead of completely incompetents made me wear a tin foil hat, then hand it over, because I guarantee he was promised a promotion to look the other way.

 

[spekkeh]

Couldn't even finish the show by how annoyed I got. Even if it was crazy biased, and I truly mean crazy biased, none of that should pass reasonable doubt, let alone be called a proper trial.

 

[Ceres]

So who will be the first to say Avery is guilty using the "evidence" Making a Murderer skimmed over that came from an interview with the shady DA and never actually was used in the trial?

 

[airmangataosenai]

I really need to watch this someday.

 

[Boney]

There's nothing wrong with the documentary being biased. It's impossible not to be since the director will have an invested interest and will have to cut footage and edit it in a way that constructs the narrative he wants to tell. But unless he's interviewing fake experts or telling his interviewee to specifically repeat his constructed lines, then it's completely fair game, it what it should be doing.

And when every piece of evidence and every procedure was falsified, then raising the question of what actually happened and implying the corruption may have gone one step further is the most sensible point of view. They certainly have a motive for it.

What could the Murder made me Famous documentary show me that could changed my mind? His 2 years of freedom he consistently harrassed, attacked and abused all women from all walks of life? That the victim was actually blackmailing him so she killed him? You'd have to go there to overturn any of the narrative raised in the Netflix documentary.

 

[Syder]

Now go watch The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Steven Avery has the makings of a psychopath as far as I'm concerned. He poured gas and oil on a cat and threw it in a fire, was constantly in trouble with the police, showed very little emotion during the entire thing, etc. I'm not going to pretend there's no doubt that he didn't do it, but I'm not going to afford him the benefit of that either. Yeah the first case was an abortion of the justice system and completely unacceptable, but it seems most likely he squandered his new chance on life because of his inability to be a decent human.

 

[entremet]

Steven Avery has the makings of a psychopath as far as I'm concerned. He poured gas and oil on a cat and threw it in a fire, was constantly in trouble with the police, showed very little emotion during the entire thing, etc. I'm not going to pretend there's no doubt that he didn't do it, but I'm not going to afford him the benefit of that either. Yeah the first case was an abortion of the justice system and completely unacceptable, but it seems most likely he squandered his new chance on life because of his inability to be a decent human.

I don't know about that. He's definitely a troubled character, animal abuse, domestic abuse, but his low cognitive abilities may explain his lack of emotions more than any psychopathic tendencies.

 

[Big Baybee]

The only reason I don't think Avery killed her is because there was no blood anywhere in his mess of a home.

 

[phatmike128]

Now go watch The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst.

This. The Jinx is much better documentary with an epic ending.

 

[OldRoutes]

Whatever is the outcome of this, I think we can all agree that Brendan is the real victim here... poor guy.

Really interested to find out what happens with him.

Also, Steven's mom is awesome.

 

[Boney]

Now go watch The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst.

I've seen it, the ending is insane. Having that footage to make such an incredible finale doesn't match all of the underhanded chips of a corrupt system able to swindle everyone two times straight.

Steven Avery has the makings of a psychopath as far as I'm concerned. He poured gas and oil on a cat and threw it in a fire, was constantly in trouble with the police, showed very little emotion during the entire thing, etc. I'm not going to pretend there's no doubt that he didn't do it, but I'm not going to afford him the benefit of that either. Yeah the first case was an abortion of the justice system and completely unacceptable, but it seems most likely he squandered his new chance on life because of his inability to be a decent human.

Yeah he isn't a saint, he committed a hineous act with others and also dealt with the accusations of his character with clear threats of violence. This is a small town and the guy isn't bright despite how incredibly insightful and perceptive he is, thanks to his lawyers I bet. But you have the precedent of dubious character from situations from 20 years ago and him having no alibi thanks to the illegal fabricated story the detectives had made, give him no benefit of the doubt over countless planted evidence, clear motive with the deadline from the bill looming over? Well fuck that noise.

 

[thechristoph]

Yeah this, seriously I know it's not enough to nail him but how did she exactly get killed?

Again, find that episode of Murder Made Me Famous. Bullet fragments were in her skull that matched bullet fragments embedded in the floor of Avery's garage, there was blood DNA evidence in the garage, there was plenty to convict him.

 

[RustyNails]

Yeah doc was crazy biased. Long story short, he probably actually did commit the second crime, the cops tried to make him look MORE guilty with the evidence issues.

Right, a dumbfuck redneck from rural wisconsin carried out the most covered up murder in history. Did we even watch the same doc?

 

[Boney]

I think all of the Avery family was victim of the event.

Again, find that episode of Murder Made Me Famous. Bullet fragments were in her skull that matched bullet fragments embedded in the floor of Avery's garage, there was blood DNA evidence in the garage, there was plenty to convict him.

But with all the other evidence being fake, what is stopping this one to be fake? Granted it would be the most elaborate and hard to do and would contrast with the amateur fakes the other evidence was. But it still puts any evidence found in the house to be at least questioned of it's validity.

 

[OldRoutes]

But with all the other evidence being fake, what is stopping this one to be fake? Granted it would be the most elaborate and hard to do and would contrast with the amateur fakes the other evidence was. But it still puts any evidence found in the house to be at least questioned of it's validity.

That evidence was tainted and it was pointed out during the trial. It's not a convincing evidence at all.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Now watch the 13th

 

[Big Baybee]

Now watch the 13th

Also, this.

 

[thestopsign]

I really don't get why everyone thinks the documentary was so biased. It left out a few small details of the case that really have very little bearing on what happened.

Some good has come out of it already too. Brandon has been acquitted.

 

[gogogow]

How does the justice system work? He was wrongfully convicted and was locked up for 18 years. The county just says "oops, we made a mistake, you are now free to go, bye!" And he had to sue them to get money otherwise he would get none?

 

[Izuna]

The rest is worse. But there's a S2 coming

don't spoil yourself

 

[blackflag]

The real tragedy is Brandon. I think Avery did it though.

 

[Boney]

Now watch the 13th

I've read a lot of papers regarding racial injustice in the criminal system, the role of for profit prisons and the effect it has on families. I'm sure this documentary will be heartbreaking and thanks for the recommendation . Is it on Netflix as well?

But this stands out as the very real possibility of framing someone not because it's easier to do than do actual work, but to stop the signing of a bill that would've had tremendous effects in the judicial process and the monetary compensation that went along with it. It's a much sinister situation due to the ramifications it has. I don't want to sound dismissive of the daily struggle that black comunities face, in which judicial and police process is just one of the several they have to face, so I'm sorry if I come out like it. White washing is bs and I mope I'm not interpreted as doing so.

 

[Arkeband]

Some other true crime documentaries to watch/listen to:

Staircase
The story of Michael Peterson, who found his wife at the bottom of his staircase bleeding to death. This story is super bizarre, and the most bizarre thing is that maybe the most probable way she died is that, and I fucking shit you not,

Spoiler

she was attacked by an owl.

But this isn't included in the documentary. Watch the sequel documentary as well, which recaps the first and provides closure.

Serial S1
The famous podcast that will give you blue balls and you won't have any idea whodunnit, and really kicked off this recent true crime resurgence.

Paradise Lost
The story of a satanic cult ritual... or a small town murder coverup? This one will really stick with you. I haven't watched West of Memphis but it's probably good.

Dear Zachary
A documentary telling the story of a father to his son. This documentary will take you on a roller coaster ride - you will think you know what's going on multiple times only for the documentary to completely change gears.

 

[blackflag]

Now watch the 13th

Yeah this one is great and heartbreaking

 

[Night Angel]

Dear Zachary made me (and everyone else I know who has watched it) cry like a baby. Watch it.

 

[Apathy]

In case anyone hasn't heard, Brandon was released due to a judge overturning his conviction. So there is a small upside

 

[OldRoutes]

How does the justice system work? He was wrongfully convicted and was locked up for 18 years. The county just says "oops, we made a mistake, you are now free to go, bye!" And he had to sue them to get money otherwise he would get none?

He had to prove that they messed up, yeah. Some of them still believe they had the right guy, so that's that...

 

[Cat Party]

Brandon was fucked over.

Steven Avery is guilty as shit.

 

[Boney]

Brandon was fucked over.

Steven Avery is guilty as shit.

Even if this is the case. The Bill not being signed is a horse shit precedent. That's what kisses me off the most

 

[NervousXtian]

I've taken shit before for saying I think Steven is guilty. I think some evidence was trumped up to try to make sure it was 100% conviction, but there's very little evidence that someone else killed her.

If you think it was someone else, holy shit did they do a lot of stuff... unnoticed to plant the bones and body and timing of it all.

 

[fraktur]

Some other true crime documentaries to watch/listen to:

Staircase
The story of Michael Peterson, who found his wife at the bottom of his staircase bleeding to death. This story is super bizarre, and the most bizarre thing is that maybe the most probable way she died is that, and I fucking shit you not,

Spoiler

she was attacked by an owl.

But this isn't included in the documentary. Watch the sequel documentary as well, which recaps the first and provides closure.

No, the most likely way she died is that he killed her. The staircase is an extremely one-sided "documentary. Just as Making a Murderer actually.

 

[Koozek]

Some other true crime documentaries to watch/listen to:

Staircase
The story of Michael Peterson, who found his wife at the bottom of his staircase bleeding to death. This story is super bizarre, and the most bizarre thing is that maybe the most probable way she died is that, and I fucking shit you not,

Spoiler

she was attacked by an owl.

But this isn't included in the documentary. Watch the sequel documentary as well, which recaps the first and provides closure.

Serial S1
The famous podcast that will give you blue balls and you won't have any idea whodunnit, and really kicked off this recent true crime resurgence.

Paradise Lost
The story of a satanic cult ritual... or a small town murder coverup? This one will really stick with you. I haven't watched West of Memphis but it's probably good.

Dear Zachary
A documentary telling the story of a father to his son. This documentary will take you on a roller coaster ride - you will think you know what's going on multiple times only for the documentary to completely change gears.

Thanks for recommending Dear Zachary. Just watched it and it was really moving. What a tragedy


Saw The Staircase and its sequel last year and they were highly interesting. Watch it if you liked MaM!

 

[msdstc]

Such a biased documentary. They manipulated the footage to make interviews look worse than they were... They also left that disgraceful "pinhole in the vial" theory in there for absolutely no reason since it was quickly found out that every single vial has that pinhole on top as a result of how blood is taken. The fact they even left this in the documentary without correcting it shows extreme bias.

Then you have his ex wives/gfs who have come forward saying he threatened to kill them on numerous occasions, dragged them by their throats, etc. He has been arrested and had restraining orders placed on him for domestic violence. He held his cousin at gun point, etc. People want to dismiss the other evidence as evidence from a shady prosecutor, but that's disingenuous given the fact that most of that evidence was used in court so it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

 

[msdstc]

In case anyone hasn't heard, Brandon was released due to a judge overturning his conviction. So there is a small upside

He wasn't released yet, he won his appeal to be released, but the prosecution is appealing the appeal.

 

[dan2026]

How the fuck Brandon was convicted I just don't understand.

There was basically a guy saying 'you did it, just admit you did it, stop lying you did it, you did it, you did it'.

How is this not leading the witness?
Especially as the witness was stated to be mentally handicapped.

The whole thing should of been thrown out of court instantly.

 

[Jmanunknown]

To believe that Steven Avery is guilty is to believe that he is simultaneously a genius and a fool given that is the story Ken Kratz told in court. Its kind of hard to believe he is a genius given that Steven Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey have a similar IQ. We will never truly know what happened to Teresa Halbach because every single bit of the prosecution and evidence was tainted. Whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty everyone should agree he is at least owed a fair trial given he was screwed by the justice system for 18 years only to be ran over by it again.

 

[Sanjuro]

This world does not have nearly enough Robert Dursts for our binging pleasure.

 

[robochimp]

He wasn't released yet, he won his appeal to be released, but the prosecution is appealing the appeal.

Has the state appealed yet? They had 90 days to either appeal or release him, I hadn't seen any news either way yet.

 

[Dalek]

To believe that Steven Avery is guilty is to believe that he is simultaneously a genius and a fool given that is the story Ken Kratz told in court. Its kind of hard to believe he is a genius given that Steven Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey have a similar IQ. We will never truly know what happened to Teresa Halbach because every single bit of the prosecution and evidence was tainted. Whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty everyone should agree he is at least owed a fair trial given he was screwed by the justice system for 18 years only to be ran over by it again.

And yet some people believe it. It's nuts.

 

[msdstc]

Has the state appealed yet? They had 90 days to either appeal or release him, I hadn't seen any news either way yet.

Yeah they appealed.

 

[m23]

Some other true crime documentaries to watch/listen to:

Staircase
The story of Michael Peterson, who found his wife at the bottom of his staircase bleeding to death. This story is super bizarre, and the most bizarre thing is that maybe the most probable way she died is that, and I fucking shit you not,

Spoiler

she was attacked by an owl.

But this isn't included in the documentary. Watch the sequel documentary as well, which recaps the first and provides closure.

Serial S1
The famous podcast that will give you blue balls and you won't have any idea whodunnit, and really kicked off this recent true crime resurgence.

Paradise Lost
The story of a satanic cult ritual... or a small town murder coverup? This one will really stick with you. I haven't watched West of Memphis but it's probably good.

Dear Zachary
A documentary telling the story of a father to his son. This documentary will take you on a roller coaster ride - you will think you know what's going on multiple times only for the documentary to completely change gears.

Paradise Lost and Dear Zachary are great.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

90% certain Avery did it, but what happened with Brandon is an absolute disgrace.

Avery had every sign of someone with the capacity to kill, threatened multiple ex girlfriends, burned a family cat alive for fun, very well documented stalker behavior with the victim, phone calls to the victims cellphone on the day of her murder. The police got sloppy but the man is not innocent, it's a bit scary how easily people are swayed with a little bit of production value and good editing.

 

[HotHamBoy]

90% certain Avery did it, but what happened with Brandon is an absolute disgrace.

Avery had every sign of someone with the capacity to kill, threatened multiple ex girlfriends, burned a family cat alive for fun, very well documented stalker behavior with the victim, phone calls to the victims cellphone on the day of her murder. The police got sloppy but the man is not innocent, it's a bit scary how easily people are swayed with a little bit of production value and good editing.

I personally think he is innocent because he seems entirely too stupid to hide all the evidence that well (blood, etc). But he just leaves the keys on the floor and it takes days for the cops to find them?

Regardless, there where multiple times where a mistrial should have been called. Even if you think he did it, the case was terribly mishandled. There can be no doubt about that. And Brendan got railroaded, plain and simple.

To believe that Steven Avery is guilty is to believe that he is simultaneously a genius and a fool given that is the story Ken Kratz told in court. Its kind of hard to believe he is a genius given that Steven Avery and his nephew Brendan Dassey have a similar IQ. We will never truly know what happened to Teresa Halbach because every single bit of the prosecution and evidence was tainted. Whether you believe Steven Avery is guilty everyone should agree he is at least owed a fair trial given he was screwed by the justice system for 18 years only to be ran over by it again.

All of this.

Again, the local police should not have been involved due to conflict of interest. The entire thing is a sham.